Rules Question: Zentraedi reinforcements

[jcherry33]

I have looked all over the rule book and cannot find anything about the glaug's ability to turn casualties into possible reinforcements. I noticed it first after looking at the recovery pod's (sorry, don't remember it's goofy zentraedi name off hand) increasing the radius for it. Where in the book is this? Any help is much appreciated.

[Maximilian Jenius]

It is actually not in the book anywhere. The only place it is listed is on the Zentraedi Armada faction card. Don't lose that card!

[slaaneshgod]

Far as I can tell its the zentraedi faction rule and the life is cheap rule and the glaug and glaug eldare rule all interacting together. With some recovery pod assistance. The uedf has a rule too where their officer mecha get free attacks after kills. Same thing only place rule is listed is on the card

[jcherry33]

Thanks! I never thought to look on those. Good thing, I never would have even known about the special rules for the other two factions.

[Very Fun One Jr]

Does the Reinforcement Rule only apply to squadrons that have a Glaug on their own card or does it also apply to units that have a Glaug purchased a a Special Option?

[Maximilian Jenius]

Yes, it applies to the Glaugs purchased from special cards (or any source for that matter). There is nothing in the rules stating otherwise.

[Very Fun One Jr]

It's not absolutely clear and I personally loathe the "it doesn't say you can't, so you can" rationale for rule interpretation. The rule states that it applies to squadrons that have a Glaug. A Zentraedi Attrition Squadron does not have a Glaug. The only units called squadrons are the Core units and nowhere does it state clearly that attached cards are considered to acquire the Squadron definition, or that cards that do not have the 'squadron' name are subject to rules that specify 'squadrons'. A Glaug purchased as a Special card is not a Squadron, it is an attachment. Support cards are also not squadrons, they are squads. Splitting hairs, I admit, but I am a competitive tournament player and the word 'Squadron' is undefined in the rules as is the relationship between attachments, core units, and rules that use specific terminology that appear on only some of the unit cards. I admit that you are probably right but in a tournament this is a hole that I would prefer to have closed by an employee of Ninja Division or Palladium Books.

[Maximilian Jenius]

The attrition squadron has a glaug in it after purchasing the special card. It is then part of that squadron for all other rules, why would this one be an unstated exception? The rule applies and nothing says it doesn't.

Also I agree that ND or PB should be ruling on all these rules questions, not fellow fans or MA's. It just adds confusion.

[Mike1975]

The attrition squadron has a glaug in it after purchasing the special card. It is then part of that squadron for all other rules, why would this one be an unstated exception? The rule applies and nothing says it doesn't.

Also I agree that ND or PB should be ruling on all these rules questions, not fellow fans or MA's. It just adds confusion.

That is correct

[Phaze]

It's not absolutely clear and I personally loathe the "it doesn't say you can't, so you can" rationale for rule interpretation. The rule states that it applies to squadrons that have a Glaug. A Zentraedi Attrition Squadron does not have a Glaug. The only units called squadrons are the Core units and nowhere does it state clearly that attached cards are considered to acquire the Squadron definition

I think it is clear. When you activate a squadron, all attached option cards activate at the same time, effectively making them part of the squadron. The Reinforcement rule makes no distinction between mecha that are not on the core squadron card.

In addition, on page 75..."Any Mecha on a Support Force Card are ADDED to the squadron on the Core Force Card they are bought with..."

So, yes, they are the same squadron.

I admit that you are probably right but in a tournament this is a hole that I would prefer to have closed by an employee of Ninja Division or Palladium Books.

Also I agree that ND or PB should be ruling on all these rules questions, not fellow fans or MA's. It just adds confusion.

In this case, I think it is clear, without PBs input...but there remain many other issues that do require their input.

At the moment, PB has their hands full with shipping Kickstarter packages, Christmas grab bags, getting Wave 2 going, etc... I don't think writing a Errata or FAQ for a game that is not on the market yet, is on the top ten to do list. It is on their minds however and is being pushed by the MA coordinators. General rules questions where there may be a loophole or unclear statement should be answered by PB, but I can't see it happening within the next few weeks.

As far a tournaments go, it is not unheard of (and common in a lot of systems) where the rules get further ratified and changed for competitive play. This as seen in even the large tournaments such as Magic where certain combinations and even some individual cards are banned from a company sponsored tournament. This is also seen at Adepticon where they have their own rules FAQ of what is and is not allowed in Warhammer and 40K games...and Adepticon is a Golden Ticket GW event.

So having a MA sponsored FAQ for tournament play would not be unheard of and would get a good basis of what is or is not allowed for a MA sponsored tournament. Since the MAs are the ones that would run Palladium sponsored tournaments, it would be up to the MAs to clear up any rules until such time that PB can review and respond to the question.

I know of two people that are working on that sort of Tournament FAQ, both of us are on this forum. We are compiling issues and are trying our best to get PB to commit time to an Errata or FAQ, so that when they can get to it, most of the legwork is already done.

It's discussions like these that feed that list. Now is the time for us to bring up these issues, discuss them, and come to a consensus, or agree to disagree. The answers we post here will be part of that list and lay the groundwork for PB to respond.

Also, being realistic, tournaments aren't going to happen before the new year and even then be limited in scope without Wave 2 in hand.

For now, the answers on this forum will have to do and will form the basis for PB to answer the questions.

[Maximilian Jenius]

Phaze I would suggest taking a look at how Privateer Press handles rules questions and answers on their forums as a system to suggest emulating. There you have open discussion of the rules but until an infernal (official rules authority) answers the matter is considered open.

It is a really solid way to handle this stuff and gives the players access to official answers between errata.

[Phaze]

The question would remain...who would be the infernals? Right now, PB has limited time. I do like the concept, however, and will spend a little time checking it out.

[Maximilian Jenius]

I am thinking they could probably deputize a certain interested MA with that kind of authority. At least to make official calls until a proper errata or FAQ was released.

[Phaze]

I am thinking they could probably deputize a certain interested MA with that kind of authority. At least to make official calls until a proper errata or FAQ was released.

lol... While that seems easy enough, in practicality, there would be other considerations why PB wouldn't hand over errata (even temporary) to an MA. First, while I have met most of the staff and they consider me good enough to make me a coordinator, they wouldn't hand over important rules considerations to someone they aren't sure will do the job effectively and to their liking. Also, there may be other considerations, such as IP licensing issues with HG that may effect the rules in some way that I, as an MA, would have no idea about. Or even future additions that are in discussion that I don't have information of, that could be effected by current rules modifications.

So I don't think PB would hand over control of a FAQ or Errata to become official (even temporary until they can sustain or overrule it) to someone outside of the original designers.

But, if they asked, I would accept.

[jcherry33]

Personally, I think the rules on the cards should be in the book. People are going to lose the cards (Me being one of them the way my luck goes). It's good that we are working the kinks out (cause there's always some) before the game is officially released. My hope is that PB listens to this and doesn't choose to ignore players like a certain other miniatures company I will not name.

[Phaze]

Personally, I think the rules on the cards should be in the book. People are going to lose the cards (Me being one of them the way my luck goes). It's good that we are working the kinks out (cause there's always some) before the game is officially released. My hope is that PB listens to this and doesn't choose to ignore players like a certain other miniatures company I will not name.

Who would that be? A good connection and reponse from a game company is really about the fan groups that are out there. The MAs are a tight knit group that are dedicated to the games that Palladium offers. We are a great aveneue to get things brought to the table, however, palladium is one of the few companies that should you have an issue...the phone number is not hard to find on their website and it gets answered by a live person.

It really is all about the community.

I agree with you on the rules. I think the rules should have been in the book as well as the point costs for the units. Maybe it was an oversight, maybe it was on purpose... I don't know.

[Warmaster40k]

Yeah, PB dropped the ball on this one, key faction defining traits and rules need to be in the rule book, it's called a rule book for a reason, but hey at least they made sure to include all kicks and power punches.

[Malcontent-Khyron]

Yeah, PB dropped the ball on this one, key faction defining traits and rules need to be in the rule book, it's called a rule book for a reason, but hey at least they made sure to include all kicks and power punches.

"Dropped the Ball?" Really? I actually agree it should have be added in the rulebook in the army section somewhere but, drop the Ball is a little harsh.
The game plays mostly of the cards, Between tracking damage, Ammo, squad size , attachments and marking of upgrades. If you don't have the cards there with you playing the game your kinda screwing up as a player, Palladium shouldn't have to Babysit everyone. So since you've already got your army in cards in front of you how hard is it really to sneak the faction ability card in there?

Sorry if this sounds harsh but it seriously annoys me when people complain about good products with minor details.

PS. If anyone ever played the first editions of either warhammer game, or warmachine, or Malifaux. You would see that for a games that officially launched a couple months ago they are doing pretty damn good.

[Kryptt]

Yes it's a good product, but if these minor details don't get talked about then PB will never know where to make improvements. It's constructive not harsh. Yes they did drop the ball because the info should have been in the book and the small cards should have been made bigger.

[Thorfinn]

Yes, it really should be in the book. The book should have everything in it. Period. You should honestly be able to make your own cards straight from the book, without having to look at any other sources.

The sizes of the cards are fine. I like that they're different sizes for their different functions. That said, a lot of info could have been consolidated. The large cards should have the stats for the mecha in the squad so you don't have to refer to the medium sized cards. Really the medium cards should only be needed for the special characters, or when you're adding a new mecha type to the squad.

[PATACK]

I think another issue with considering "squads" as part of the squadron comes into play when you upgrade Regults to Veteran status. So are you then to assume that you PAY to upgrade the mecha on the core card, and then you could add up to 12 more regults via squad cards and those are somehow Veterans essentially for free? Makes no sense to play that way.

[Phaze]

So are you then to assume that you PAY to upgrade the mecha on the core card, and then you could add up to 12 more regults via squad cards and those are somehow Veterans essentially for free? Makes no sense to play that way.

The add-on cards also have their veteran cost at 10 points so 2 add on cards of six battle pods would cost an additional 20 points to upgrade them to the veteran status. If you buy veteran status for the core card you also have to buy veteran status for the to add on cards at the additional cost.

[Malcontent-Khyron]

Yea if you only pay the veteran cost from the force card then only the mecha coming with the force card are vets. Additional 6 man support units have to pay the additional 10 points a peice to be veterans.

[Phaze]

Yea if you only pay the veteran cost from the force card then only the mecha coming with the force card are vets. Additional 6 man support units have to pay the additional 10 points a peice to be veterans.

Too be clear...according to the rules, the add on unit MUST pay the upgrade should the core unit have the upgrade. You can't have vets and non vets in the same squad. The rules state: "and any upgrades added to mecha of the core squadron are added to the additional mecha at the additional cost listed on the card."