The 1st edition RPG REF Raider Destroid

[Tim Wing]

This is mainly just an edit of the old uRRG file, with the stats and some of the information brought more in line with the what was published in the 1st edition RPG. While, granted, the RPG can not be considered OSM, it serves as the ONLY available published information on the mecha. You work with what you got!

The biggest change was the the main armament. In the uRRG, we decided to make the main cannons a combination of one rail gun and two particle beam cannons. Never like this. They all look exactly the same, plus the sharp bend at the end of the barrel would seem to preclude a projectile cannon. I switched it instead to being a tri-laser, as stated in the RPG.

I also included in the Reference Notes a scan of the artwork from the Robotech Art 3 book, which differed somewhat from the final design found in the RPG.

Any way, I know that this design has been de-canonized by HG (as I point out in the Reference notes), but I wanted to include it anyway.

Main File

http://www.robotechillustrated.com/dest ... ii-raider/

Reference Notes

http://www.robotechillustrated.com/unca ... id-raider/

FB gallery link

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robotech ... 0792561099

[Alpha 11]

Another great write up!

[glitterboy2098]

my own notes (for when i get around to writing these guys up) has the arm guns as human built copies of the particle beams off the zent battle pods.. mainly for their ability to literally knock targets out of the sky. you lose a bit of firepower compared ot the UEDF mecha but each target you hit is going to need piloting skill rolls to stay avoid losing control and crashing. unless it is very big. (exploiting the 2nd edition RPG's weapon stats. )
i also had the design as being the same size as the UEDF mecha, just built with a powerful thruster array (giving it jump and flight ability similar to the condor.. lets them be used in space easier, and deployed without landing the transports.)

[Tim Wing]

my own notes (for when i get around to writing these guys up) has the arm guns as human built copies of the particle beams off the zent battle pods.. mainly for their ability to literally knock targets out of the sky. you lose a bit of firepower compared ot the UEDF mecha but each target you hit is going to need piloting skill rolls to stay avoid losing control and crashing. unless it is very big. (exploiting the 2nd edition RPG's weapon stats. )
i also had the design as being the same size as the UEDF mecha, just built with a powerful thruster array (giving it jump and flight ability similar to the condor.. lets them be used in space easier, and deployed without landing the transports.)

I like the re-use of the Battlepod Particle beams (though I stuck with lasers, as well as keeping the mecha smaller, so as to stay consistent with the old RPG "source material"... using that term very loosely here.)

As for thrusters and flight capability, I'm going to have to break with you on that one. There are absolutely none shown in the art-work, either on the back nor as venier thrusters anywhere on the mecha's body. Plus having it be both the size of a traditional Destroid and being flight capable? To much of having your cake and eating it too.

[ShadowLogan]

The biggest change was the the main armament. In the uRRG, we decided to make the main cannons a combination of one rail gun and two particle beam cannons. Never like this. They all look exactly the same, plus the sharp bend at the end of the barrel would seem to preclude a projectile cannon. I switched it instead to being a tri-laser, as stated in the RPG.

While I don't object to the tri-laser setup, there are a few options you could create to diversify:
1. Tri-Laser as in the 1E RPG
2. Tri-Particle Beam Cannon (numerous examples of them in use by the REF in 1E RPG)
3. Tri-Ion Cannon (VHT-1, which the REF used had them in 1E RPG)
4. Tri-Plasma Cannon (off hand I don't recall a Plasma Cannon in use by the REF, but the Zentreadi had them in the 1E RPG)
5. Tri-Cluster of 2 or 3 different cannon types (#1-4 above) to provide diversity. IIRC the Z-2 OBP had this setup for its arm cannons.

A variety of approaches also exist to balance out and justify the existence of weapon variants (recall that the RDF Raider had 2 cannon types in the 1E RPG, the REF could simply be continuing that trend) using performance balance (Range, Power, ROF) and/or mission role (AAA, Anti-Armor/Ground Force, Boarding Action, etc)

[Tim Wing]

I'm totally down with additional variants, but one has to keep an eye on both the mecha's primary purpose (ADA) and cost. The weapon system must be long range with decent yield/power, and it can't have TOO many energy weapon variants, as those tend to cost more to develop. The tri-laser on this mecha already has extremely good range and yield, so there would be less drive to produce additional variants.

Tri-Laser as in the 1E RPG

That's the one I already wrote

Tri-Particle Beam Cannon (numerous examples of them in use by the REF in 1E RPG) and Tri-Ion Cannon (VHT-1, which the REF used had them in 1E RPG)

Though it would have better destructive potential than the lasers, it would be shorter range, thus not suited to the air defense artillery role. However, a variant with two of the particle beam cannons from the Excaliber would make sense if it was meant to used as a Main Battle Robot. You could justify it having two rather than one by saying that it's power source provided more juice than the one in the Excaliber, thus allowing it to fire both at the same rate of fire as the other mecha's single cannon.

Tri-Plasma Cannon (off hand I don't recall a Plasma Cannon in use by the REF, but the Zentreadi had them in the 1E RPG)

VERY short range, so totally **** for the ADA mission

Tri-Cluster of 2 or 3 different cannon types (#1-4 above) to provide diversity. IIRC the Z-2 OBP had this setup for its arm cannons.

This is a workable idea. I was thinking a low cost version of the Raider with four Bofors 35mm anti-aircraft cannons (two per arms) or a version with one Bofors 35mm and a few anti-aircraft missiles per arm, like the ADR-04 Maverick. These would make sense because the 35mm round would have adequate penetration for tacking down Invid mecha, but would be waaaaaay less expensive to build.

Also, I propose a version with a single 78mm cannon (from the Defender) per arm. This one would be to replace the aging ADR-04-Mk Xs for use on capital ships. This makes sense because the 78mm round (and any solid projectile round) has an effectively unlimited range in space, where as the laser would eventually "dissipate" (like the beam from a flashlight).

[ShadowLogan]

That's the one I already wrote

I know, that's why I put it at the number one slot and to show considered all possibilities w/o consideration for the basic design of the arm.

re: other energy weapon types.
I agree they aren't going to be ideal for the air defense role, but that doesn't mean the REF Raider can't have variants that are better optimized for missions other than air defense where the long range lasers aren't needed, but the better stopping power of these types is like in dealing with Inorganic charges (who don't fly) or other anti-armor/ground forces type missions, or even missions that take them inside structures where the range advantage isn't a factor (like with the Deadelus attack using Raider-Xs).

One issue with the PBC-11 is its slow rate of fire on the Excalibur, and the BFG barreled lasers on the Gladiator are under whelming to say the least (by RPG spec). So a Raider optimized to deal with fast moving ground forces with heavy hitting power than a Gladiator and higher rates of fire than a Excal. would seem to be called for IMHO once the missiles run out

[glitterboy2098]

my own notes (for when i get around to writing these guys up) has the arm guns as human built copies of the particle beams off the zent battle pods.. mainly for their ability to literally knock targets out of the sky. you lose a bit of firepower compared ot the UEDF mecha but each target you hit is going to need piloting skill rolls to stay avoid losing control and crashing. unless it is very big. (exploiting the 2nd edition RPG's weapon stats. )
i also had the design as being the same size as the UEDF mecha, just built with a powerful thruster array (giving it jump and flight ability similar to the condor.. lets them be used in space easier, and deployed without landing the transports.)

I like the re-use of the Battlepod Particle beams (though I stuck with lasers, as well as keeping the mecha smaller, so as to stay consistent with the old RPG "source material"... using that term very loosely here.)

As for thrusters and flight capability, I'm going to have to break with you on that one. There are absolutely none shown in the art-work, either on the back nor as venier thrusters anywhere on the mecha's body. Plus having it be both the size of a traditional Destroid and being flight capable? To much of having your cake and eating it too.

1, the RPG art for these guys doesn't show their back.. so i intentionally altered a few things.

2 the Condor is the size of a normal destroid, and it has full flight. so there is precedent.

and most of the other versions do have thrusters and stuff shown, so i'm assuming said thrusters are useful.

plus having limited flight abilities on par with the condor makes these the 'mobile infantry' of destroids.. like the condor they can be used in space without having to worry that they'll be knocked off the ship's hull and float away into space with no way back, they can be dropped into battle without risking a landing of a transport shuttle in a warzone, and their mobility is a lot higher, letting them react to enemy movements better.

[Tim Wing]

1, the RPG art for these guys doesn't show their back.. so i intentionally altered a few things.

Sure they do, check out the old REF Field Guide. It clearly shows the mecha's back, sans rocket thrusters.

2 the Condor is the size of a normal destroid, and it has full flight. so there is precedent.

Personally, this is another case where I break with the RPG. I believe that the Condor was Veritech, based on the Alpha. This is due to the similarity in appearance and design, plus the presence of wings on its back, right where the Alpha folds its wing in battloid mode.

and most of the other versions do have thrusters and stuff shown, so i'm assuming said thrusters are useful.

On the UN Spacy/early Destroids had thrusters, but these were just for maneuvering in space. It did not give it flight. The only Battloid contemporary to the Raider that could fly was the Southern Cross's Cyclops. All other Battloids were ground pounders only.

plus having limited flight abilities on par with the condor makes these the 'mobile infantry' of destroids.

Yeah, but these were air defense artillery robots, not infantry support. Listen, I'm not saying that flight wouldn't be useful, it would be. It would be great! But you always have to choose between three priorities: speed (mobility), armor and firepower. The Cyclops sacrifices allot of firepower and armor for its mobility. The Raider was all about the fire power and armor.

[jaymz]

I've redone all of the mecha from RT and added others as well. PM if you are interested Tim.

[Tim Wing]

No PM needed jaymz, I'm always interested in seeing what you've got in the way of ideas!

[jaymz]

Ok I'll PM you as posting links to MY stuff will summarily get me suspended in a hurry lol

[taalismn]

Another fun write-up as always.