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I was wondering how/if a SLMH warhead would work.

I was thinking it would work much like a pressurized gas canister rupturing works, inducing an over-pressure wave.

It would be non-nuclear and non-chemical explosive (outside a breaching charge). And the hydrogen gas would displace what air o2 breathers use for a duration possibly.

Yes, I realize it work best if used as a bomb inside an inclosed space.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I was thinking it would work much like a pressurized gas canister rupturing works, inducing an over-pressure wave.

There are probably more effective ways to go about it than that...

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:It would be non-nuclear and non-chemical explosive (outside a breaching charge). And the hydrogen gas would displace what air o2 breathers use for a duration possibly.

Yes, I realize it work best if used as a bomb inside an inclosed space.

Probably wouldn't work... SLMH is stabilized liquid metallic hydrogen, meaning it stays in its liquid state (while retaining metallicity) at STP. It wouldn't evaporate into a gas and choke anyone.

What a SLMH bomb like you describe here WOULD do is saturate the target area with a highly flammable liquid that burns five times as energetically as rocket fuel. That's one ignition source away from being a thermobaric warhead or an incendiary bomb.



EDIT: SLMH would probably find its greatest utility as a core material in fusion warheads... since it's so much denser than regular elemental hydrogen.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I was thinking it would work much like a pressurized gas canister rupturing works, inducing an over-pressure wave.

There are probably more effective ways to go about it than that...

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:It would be non-nuclear and non-chemical explosive (outside a breaching charge). And the hydrogen gas would displace what air o2 breathers use for a duration possibly.

Yes, I realize it work best if used as a bomb inside an inclosed space.

Probably wouldn't work... SLMH is stabilized liquid metallic hydrogen, meaning it stays in its liquid state (while retaining metallicity) at STP. It wouldn't evaporate into a gas and choke anyone.

What a SLMH bomb like you describe here WOULD do is saturate the target area with a highly flammable liquid that burns five times as energetically as rocket fuel. That's one ignition source away from being a thermobaric warhead or an incendiary bomb.



EDIT: SLMH would probably find its greatest utility as a core material in fusion warheads... since it's so much denser than regular elemental hydrogen.

I would say it would work really well with an oxidizer as a FAE warhead as you could get a lot of "fuel" in a very small space

guardiandashi wrote:

Seto Kaiba wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I was thinking it would work much like a pressurized gas canister rupturing works, inducing an over-pressure wave.

There are probably more effective ways to go about it than that...

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:It would be non-nuclear and non-chemical explosive (outside a breaching charge). And the hydrogen gas would displace what air o2 breathers use for a duration possibly.

Yes, I realize it work best if used as a bomb inside an inclosed space.

Probably wouldn't work... SLMH is stabilized liquid metallic hydrogen, meaning it stays in its liquid state (while retaining metallicity) at STP. It wouldn't evaporate into a gas and choke anyone.

What a SLMH bomb like you describe here WOULD do is saturate the target area with a highly flammable liquid that burns five times as energetically as rocket fuel. That's one ignition source away from being a thermobaric warhead or an incendiary bomb.



EDIT: SLMH would probably find its greatest utility as a core material in fusion warheads... since it's so much denser than regular elemental hydrogen.

I would say it would work really well with an oxidizer as a FAE warhead as you could get a lot of "fuel" in a very small space

Nope, closer to how plasma was described as a super napalm. FAE require vapor which SLMH doesn't become.

not naturally anyway. a good spray system or a bursting charge could aerosolize it, i suspect. and a FAE doesn't require vapor.. you can make a FAE out of metallic powders, even flour or coffee creamer. anything that burns that can be suspended in the air at the right ratio long enough to catch fire.

in fact, some FAE warheads designed to take out smaller areas with their heat and pressure effects (usually referred to as thermobarics..) use aluminum powder, since it is very stable (good for storage) and also burns very hot and rapidly once the cloud of powder ignited. others use powdered forms of military explosives. some of the first experiments with them in the 1940's (by the germans) used coal dust.

guardiandashi wrote:I would say it would work really well with an oxidizer as a FAE warhead as you could get a lot of "fuel" in a very small space

By definition, an FAE bomb uses atmospheric oxygen as its oxidizer... that's why it's called a Fuel-Air Explosive, which is a type of thermobaric weapon.

Even in the presence of atmospheric oxygen, properly aerosolized liquid metallic hydrogen should be quite an impressively powerful thermobaric weapon. It'd probably make a dandy incendiary too.

Edit: "It would be non-nuclear and non-chemical explosive (outside a breaching/destabilizing charge). And the hydrogen gas would displace what air o2 breathers use for a duration possibly."

And knowing something about where LMH would be found in nature I understand that most obvious way to stabilize the LMH is to confine it. Since there is some handwavium in SLMH as it is presented there can be handwavium in making a warhead with it.

Seto wrote:EDIT: SLMH would probably find its greatest utility as a core material in fusion warheads... since it's so much denser than regular elemental hydrogen.

This was my thought to for a fusion device.

An alternative if one wanted to stay away from the nuclear option would be to use it in plasma warheads (of the RPG setting) as a new fuel.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:And knowing something about where LMH would be found in nature I understand that most obvious way to stabilize the LMH is to confine it. Since there is some handwavium in SLMH as it is presented there can be handwavium in making a warhead with it.

But the entire point of stabilizing liquid metallic hydrogen is that you DON'T have to store it in a pressure vessel and refrigerate it to sustain the conditions under which it forms in nature. "Exploding" a pressure vessel containing SLMH would just spray the vicinity with SLMH... it wouldn't evaporate into a gas able to asphyxiate anyone unless it was heated, and heating it would run the risk of providing what is essentially highly volatile rocket fuel with an oxidizer and an ignition source.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Edit: "It would be non-nuclear and non-chemical explosive (outside a breaching/destabilizing charge). And the hydrogen gas would displace what air o2 breathers use for a duration possibly."

And knowing something about where LMH would be found in nature I understand that most obvious way to stabilize the LMH is to confine it. Since there is some handwavium in SLMH as it is presented there can be handwavium in making a warhead with it.

It would displace O2 in the same way that any other substance would....if you want to make an asphyxiation weapon, I would use a regular chemical weapon for that, or a combustion weapon that burns off the oxygen. I don't really see the point of making SLMH into some sort of magical substance that can displace oxygen.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:And knowing something about where LMH would be found in nature I understand that most obvious way to stabilize the LMH is to confine it. Since there is some handwavium in SLMH as it is presented there can be handwavium in making a warhead with it.

But the entire point of stabilizing liquid metallic hydrogen is that you DON'T have to store it in a pressure vessel and refrigerate it to sustain the conditions under which it forms in nature. "Exploding" a pressure vessel containing SLMH would just spray the vicinity with SLMH... it wouldn't evaporate into a gas able to asphyxiate anyone unless it was heated, and heating it would run the risk of providing what is essentially highly volatile rocket fuel with an oxidizer and an ignition source.

If there is a way to stabilize LMH there is a way to destabilize it. But both of those are in the "story's handwavium".*shrugs*

O2 displacement.....would be a side-effect rather then 'the point' of the warhead. What would 'the point' would be a warhead that would not of itself cause fires when it explodes.

Scarcity issue.
There is also the aspect that if a polity can make SLMH cheap enough to use in pressure warheads that that polity has developed the infrastructure to make SLMH cheaply. Sort of how we make gasoline so cheaply that we can use it in Napalm bombs.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:O2 displacement.....would be a side-effect rather then 'the point' of the warhead. What would 'the point' would be a warhead that would not of itself cause fires when it explodes.

... but that's not what you're going to get with hydrogen. Hydrogen is FLAMMABLE. You'd be spraying the combat zone you detonated the bomb in with something that makes modern rocket fuel look tame, and in breaching buildings there's usually no shortage of ignition sources to ignite something like that.

Depending on how early it finds an ignition source, it'll either go up like an FAE bomb or an incendiary... either way, people will be way too busy being on fire to worry about suffocating.

hydrogen fires burn hot enough that water splits into it's component parts and just adds more fuel to the fire. hot enough to ignite and burn up Iron and steel! much less stuff like Aluminum, organic materials, etc..

Seto Kaiba wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:O2 displacement.....would be a side-effect rather then 'the point' of the warhead. What would 'the point' would be a warhead that would not of itself cause fires when it explodes.

... but that's not what you're going to get with hydrogen. Hydrogen is FLAMMABLE. You'd be spraying the combat zone you detonated the bomb in with something that makes modern rocket fuel look tame, and in breaching buildings there's usually no shortage of ignition sources to ignite something like that.

Depending on how early it finds an ignition source, it'll either go up like an FAE bomb or an incendiary... either way, people will be way too busy being on fire to worry about suffocating.

If the O2 is displaced there is no oxidizer is something you skipped.
Yes, there is the possibility of burn off but explosion...unlikely as a whole like you are portraying. There would be too much hydrogen for the available O2 to combine with. FAE bombs are about ratios. Too much of one or the other and nothing. (see the exploding port-a-potty/sewer/bug-bomb house/etc... mythbusters eps.)(there is even a ep of Future Weapons with a FAE demonstration.)

Even if it did go off like a fuel air bomb it would be the most clean one there is. By products...water & H gas (unspent fuel.)

Actually the way you have portrayed SLMH in your earlier posts you could use it like a block of C4 (see the cooking with C4 mythbusters ep.) and cook over a burning can of it.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Seto Kaiba wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:O2 displacement.....would be a side-effect rather then 'the point' of the warhead. What would 'the point' would be a warhead that would not of itself cause fires when it explodes.

... but that's not what you're going to get with hydrogen. Hydrogen is FLAMMABLE. You'd be spraying the combat zone you detonated the bomb in with something that makes modern rocket fuel look tame, and in breaching buildings there's usually no shortage of ignition sources to ignite something like that.

Depending on how early it finds an ignition source, it'll either go up like an FAE bomb or an incendiary... either way, people will be way too busy being on fire to worry about suffocating.

If the O2 is displaced there is no oxidizer is something you skipped.
Yes, there is the possibility of burn off but explosion...unlikely as a whole like you are portraying. There would be too much hydrogen for the available O2 to combine with. FAE bombs are about ratios. Too much of one or the other and nothing. (see the exploding port-a-potty/sewer/bug-bomb house/etc... mythbusters eps.)(there is even a ep of Future Weapons with a FAE demonstration.)

Even if it did go off like a fuel air bomb it would be the most clean one there is. By products...water & H gas (unspent fuel.)

Actually the way you have portrayed SLMH in your earlier posts you could use it like a block of C4 (see the cooking with C4 mythbusters ep.) and cook over a burning can of it.

How does it 'displace' the O2 though? I am not clear on that part. Or is this more magical handwavium?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:If the O2 is displaced there is no oxidizer is something you skipped.

The problem with the idea is that SLMH is a liquid at STP, and even if it was somehow rendered down into ordinary elemental hydrogen it's not going to completely displace the air in the blast zone... meaning that, no matter what, it WILL be at a stoichiometric ratio suitable for ignition shortly after the blast. Igniting it isn't an IF, it's a WHEN... a virtual inevitability measured in seconds.

There are far better ways to achieve the same effect that don't involve spraying valuable fuel stock all over hell's half-acre, causing an explosion, or setting everyone on fire. Unless the SLMH is stored under massively high pressure, you'd never get even close to the potential breaching power you'd get from an ordinary high explosive charge.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Actually the way you have portrayed SLMH in your earlier posts you could use it like a block of C4 and cook over a burning can of it.

Well, theoretically you could cook with rocket fuel, yes... but what you'd get would be an incredibly hot, short-lived fire that would make a terrible mess out of whatever you were trying to cook.

Bravo

*bows out of the discussion*