Forums of the Megaverse®

Are characters unique?
Do Built-In Upgrades affect the abilities of special characters (e.g., Grell in a Regult Squadron with the Veteran upgrade)?
Can mecha piloted by a special character receive support upgrades (e.g., can Max Sterling pilot a VF-1R)?
Can a Zentraedi character in a mecha with the Life is Cheap ability be returned to play via the Reinforcement rule?

Very Fun One Jr wrote:Are characters unique?

I would have to totally throw this out there cause I have nothing to back it up, but I would say : Yes, they are unique and you can only have one of a special character in your army. In all of the episodes I only saw one Roy Fokker, or someone of similar abilities. There was only one Max, one Miriya. Only One Breetai. Even among the millions of starships, special characters are just that...Special. Including three Grells in your army screams CHEEESE! In a tournament setting you might see two Roy Fokkers facing off in different armies, but that is in a competitive environment and really outside of canon.

Very Fun One Jr wrote:Do Built-In Upgrades affect the abilities of special characters (e.g., Grell in a Regult Squadron with the Veteran upgrade)?

Yes, for reasons stated in another post on the same question.

Very Fun One Jr wrote:Can mecha piloted by a special character receive support upgrades (e.g., can Max Sterling pilot a VF-1R)?

No, the descriptions for the characters explicitly say the type of mecha they can operate. The VF-1R Upgrade replaces two mecha (VF-1A or VF-1J) in the squad with two VF-1R. Special Characters can only operate the mecha they have on the Character Description. If it is an omission on PBs part, they will have to answer that, but for now I personally would not allow it. Not that it would be a big Game Changer.

Another Support Upgrade is the Destroid Command, and as I stated earlier, I think that you can include that upgrade with a Special Character. It only really affects two special characters (Rick and Dietrich) because they are the only ones with the destroid available and have skills that are affected by the upgrade. So Rick gets a total of +2 Leadership (which is not that crazy), +2 Piloting, and +1 to Gunnery, for 20 pts in a Spartan. None of which I think is a big game changer for the points.

Very Fun One Jr wrote:Can a Zentraedi character in a mecha with the Life is Cheap ability be returned to play via the Reinforcement rule?

I talked about this before and at one time thought, yea, why not. But then I woke up to the utter strangeness that would occur. If the Special Character comes back, can he use the 'once per game' ability that he already used again since it is a new special character? Uhhh No. Special Characters in Pods that are destroyed should be removed from play, but the "Tactical Battlepods Only" as it states in the Reinforcement Rules get to come back. After all, Life is Cheap and even Special Characters are replaceable.

Anybody got anything to add?

I honestly feel that characters should be limited to (1) per army. I do love that you can consider certain characters "templates" for the malcontents, and I hope that stays, but limiting things to (1) per army avoids much munchkinism.

I am also seriously curious about the second question. I am leaning towards a yes, if you pay the points for the upgrade they should also effect the character in the squad. The only way I can see getting around this would be to clarify characters as their own unit type, much like 40k, or solos in warmachine.

I think characters should be dead with a nameless cheap clone replacing them once they are dead if they are in a regult. Purely personal opinion and preference here though. I would be pretty irked if I killed Grell just to have him come back the next turn.

Maximilian Jenius wrote:I honestly feel that characters should be limited to (1) per army. I do love that you can consider certain characters "templates" for the malcontents, and I hope that stays, but limiting things to (1) per army avoids much munchkinism.

I don't think that is possible and would strip a certain combo built into the game that to be honest I am surprised you missed considering your name. Max and miriya are designed to run together and if its one per army that is impossible. I honestly feel that like most games the characters limit other options by there cost alone. Roy is expensive. So I really feel that while a small elite unit with rick, Ben, max, miriya would be brutal it will limit the entire force otherwise because of its cost alone. And it would be fun thematically.

i think he meant "one of each".. so you could run max and miyria together, but not say 2 Roy Fokkers...

Phaze wrote:

Very Fun One Jr wrote:Are characters unique?

Including three Grells in your army screams CHEEESE! In a tournament setting you might see two Roy Fokkers facing off in different armies, but that is in a competitive environment and really outside of canon.

Very Fun One Jr wrote:Can mecha piloted by a special character receive support upgrades (e.g., can Max Sterling pilot a VF-1R)?

No, the descriptions for the characters explicitly say the type of mecha they can operate. The VF-1R Upgrade replaces two mecha (VF-1A or VF-1J) in the squad with two VF-1R. Special Characters can only operate the mecha they have on the Character Description. If it is an omission on PBs part, they will have to answer that, but for now I personally would not allow it. Not that it would be a big Game Changer.

Another Support Upgrade is the Destroid Command, and as I stated earlier, I think that you can include that upgrade with a Special Character. It only really affects two special characters (Rick and Dietrich) because they are the only ones with the destroid available and have skills that are affected by the upgrade. So Rick gets a total of +2 Leadership (which is not that crazy), +2 Piloting, and +1 to Gunnery, for 20 pts in a Spartan. None of which I think is a big game changer for the points.

I'm dopey with the quote editor and I tried to snip the two parts i wanted to focus on, sorry for the wordiness. OK, here we go:
You example, a concern over 3 Grells in an army, isn't anything overpowered I think. All he does is allow you to use the Reinforcement ability if he isn't in a Glaug. You could bring a Glaug just as well and have the same thing. If you use Grell instead you save points but he rides a Regult!

The VF-1R is an interesting case, I'd like to start with your approval of the CMD Dest but not the VF-1R. Note that the CMD upgrade is far more potent. It gives a special character an entirely new ability (or ability upgrade) with significant game impact (more CPs, more dice to use for CP Movement bonus), while VF-1R only adds some defensive weapons to two eligible mecha, short ranged, low power, and useful for missile defense primarily, but no changes in base stats or abilities. It doesn't seem fair at all to deny some characters the VF upgrade but allow the CMD upgrade. I understand that the character profiles indicate which models of VF they may operate, but I think that is only in reference to the base model, i.e. which Squadrons they can join and which mecha in those squadrons they can operate. The VF-1R is an upgrade and no different in that respect than the CMD upgrade, i.e. it adds some juice to a mecha. If characters can have upgrades then they should be able to get the VF-1R. Or, to flip it around no character has a CMD Destroid in the list of legal mecha, either, so should they be unable to receive that upgrade? I also want to point out that the VF-1R upgrade can only be applied to VF-1As and VF-1Js, so any character you bring in a VF-1S cannot be upgraded anyway.

Very Fun One Jr wrote:The VF-1R is an interesting case, I'd like to start with your approval of the CMD Dest but not the VF-1R. Note that the CMD upgrade is far more potent. It gives a special character an entirely new ability (or ability upgrade) with significant game impact (more CPs, more dice to use for CP Movement bonus), while VF-1R only adds some defensive weapons to two eligible mecha, short ranged, low power, and useful for missile defense primarily, but no changes in base stats or abilities.

Yea, I realize that. But I am trying to keep my opinions and feelings out, and determine the outcomes by the letter of the rules. I know the Command Upgrade is more potent, but it doesn't really have a huge impact and the rules say it can be applied to ANY Destroid Mecha in the force. The VF-1R issue was pretty clear in the rules, although in a home brew game I would probably allow it simply because I don't have an issue with it. The rules make explicit distinction between the variations of Valkyries for special characters.

Agree to disagree.

I agree with phaze on the interpretation of the vf-1r and command upgrade. In friendly home games in would allow rick or whoever in an upgraded Valkyrie r model but the rules specify exactly which mecha and the r upgrade changes that while the command does not so unless there is a ruling or eratta to clarify then I would say for competive play not to allow the r with a character but to allow a command. But this discussion and why is good because it allows a ruling to be made before competitve play gets rolling. I do think it shouldn't matter honestly. Its part of the Valkyrie life extension program so at least max, rick, and miriya should be allowed to use the vf-1r. I feel that most of the destroid piloting characters would have a command pack anyway. Makes sense after all Roy and rick both flew the vf-1s and that is the same concept. Command and control which is more likely for the characters to use such mecha anyway.

Remember that the VF-1R does have changes to the base stats though! It takes 3 more MD and is also a bit faster than the normal VF. That extra 3 points can be nice. That means that you go from 4 shots from pods to kill a VT to 5.

What might be a cool thing to have in league play is allow a custom character using the rules for creating RPG characters in RRT

Mike1975 wrote:Remember that the VF-1R does have changes to the base stats though! It takes 3 more MD and is also a bit faster than the normal VF. That extra 3 points can be nice. That means that you go from 4 shots from pods to kill a VT to 5.

Excellent point, Mike. I missed that.