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Greetings fellow Robotech fans, as the name of the topic suggests the motive of this topic is to inquire about the estimated date for the shipping of international orders (or if anyone outside de US have received them) and to be informed on the matter. I thank you forehand for all the information you can give.

I've got no real concrete info, but... it does say some where (either in the Palladium updates or the kickstarter updates) that the kickstarter orders for europe will be shipped from a european warehouse and I presume that the policy of ks first still applys. The best I've found for an indication is an online shop with an "expected to ship" date for pre-orders of 28 nov. As this is hardly a firm conformation I wouldn't take it as word of law but it would be reasonable expectation that european stock is shipped direct from Asia and so a rough estimate would be for before that date for backers. The rest of us will just have to sit on our hands till some time after that. ( I was wrong in the original post, everything goes to palladium first, not as presumed above "direct from Asia" sorry if I misled anybody)

According to Wayne, they need Containers 4, 5 and a small part of 6 to ship out ALL of the backer packages.

They just got 4 in yesterday and 5 is supposed to arrive today, which means they should, in theory, be able to finish up ALL of the US, and the vast majority of the remaining backer boxes with those 2 alone. 6 and 7 are supposed to arrive in the next week or two, which should definitely cover everything, based on what they've said.

From there it's just a matter of packaging it all up and mailing it out. The estimated 1,000 to go out by Monday should, in theory, cover the rest of the US, based on the numbers of Showdown/Reckless backers and the fact they'll have sent out ~3,700 boxes at that point, based on what they've said over the last few months. US backers seem to make up at least half of the backer base (maybe as much as 3/4), but surely they've got to be getting close by now.

No, I don't think so...

They clearly underestimated the success of the KS campaign...
Their warehouse and shipping methods back then weren't adapted for all the boxes ordered till now.

I recall you thy pledged for 70 000 $ and finaly got 1 442 312 $...quite the difference huh ?

The scale of all the fabric and shipping chain had to change.

I'm french and I m' waiting for my box till november last year, I know I'll have it for January or February 2015 ( not later I hope).

I think PB should have done the International shipping at the same time of US because International backers sent money was also used to make this project come true.

Huckebeinmk2 wrote:No, I don't think so...

They clearly underestimated the success of the KS campaign...
Their warehouse and shipping methods back then weren't adapted for all the boxes ordered till now.

I recall you thy pledged for 70 000 $ and finaly got 1 442 312 $...quite the difference huh ?

The scale of all the fabric and shipping chain had to change.

I'm french and I m' waiting for my box till november last year, I know I'll have it for January or February 2015 ( not later I hope).

I think PB should have done the International shipping at the same time of US because International backers sent money was also used to make this project come true.

What he said basically, the " Were shipping US orders first because theirs no customs paperwork to fill out " its VERY weak, there has been ALOT of down time in between containers so their may have been some time to fill out a few form here and there.... or perhaps allow me to phrase it another way, we didn't pay you with 2nd hand dollars, so why do we receive 2nd hand service?

The new Kevin update is a mixed blessing: I like the timings, less the hint at extra expenses:

Shipping Overseas Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Rewards

We will need to package them all, making sure each package satisfies the country’s shipping requirements (the maximum size in the EU is smaller than what is allowed in the USA, making things a little trickier), palletize them all by type, then put them on a ship and send them overseas to a central location for mailing throughout the European Union. A similar process will follow for Australia, which has a surprisingly large Robotech® fan base. It is our understanding that this method of shipping should reduce the end cost to the recipient. That said, the recipient will, of course, be responsible for any and all fees, taxes and duties their government may charge. What taxes, duties and fees MAY be applied is completely out of Palladium’s hands. Again, it is our understanding that this method of shipping will mitigate the cost to the recipient.

being a selfish european citizen, I do hope that this applies (if it does) only to backers outside the EU, since UPDATE 40 states clearly:

We are pleased to announce that we have reached an agreement to use the UK as a staging area for our European shipping.

What does this mean?

Since we will be shipping your pledge rewards from a local distributor, European backers will not be required to pay VAT or other additional import fees!

Am I correct?

Conteshard wrote:The new Kevin update is a mixed blessing: I like the timings, less the hint at extra expenses:

Shipping Overseas Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Rewards

We will need to package them all, making sure each package satisfies the country’s shipping requirements (the maximum size in the EU is smaller than what is allowed in the USA, making things a little trickier), palletize them all by type, then put them on a ship and send them overseas to a central location for mailing throughout the European Union. A similar process will follow for Australia, which has a surprisingly large Robotech® fan base. It is our understanding that this method of shipping should reduce the end cost to the recipient. That said, the recipient will, of course, be responsible for any and all fees, taxes and duties their government may charge. What taxes, duties and fees MAY be applied is completely out of Palladium’s hands. Again, it is our understanding that this method of shipping will mitigate the cost to the recipient.

being a selfish european citizen, I do hope that this applies (if it does) only to backers outside the EU, since UPDATE 40 states clearly:

We are pleased to announce that we have reached an agreement to use the UK as a staging area for our European shipping.

What does this mean?

Since we will be shipping your pledge rewards from a local distributor, European backers will not be required to pay VAT or other additional import fees!

Am I correct?

Well having read a few of the government web pages for several EU countries........any that force duties for ALL incoming stuff (weather it is a purchase OR a gift) cannot be side stepped by Palladium.

Basically some countries say "it wasn't made here? You want it you give us money" not to the shipper but to their own citizens.


I found that out due to a Kickstarter I helped a friend with based in England ..... Unless we print our book over there.....we have to pay a duty on EVERY copy that enters the country............even though it's a book written by/owned by someone from there.

If I'm not mistaken the problem is NOT to pay taxes, but not paying them TWICE: if palladium has e EU reseller, I pay EU taxes and not US taxes.

That said, the update was crystal clear and unequivocal: European backers will not be required to pay VAT or other additional import fees so I expect not to pay a cent over what I already paid.

They went so far as to say:

If you've been sitting on the fence waiting for this news, or know others who have, spread the word!

and it was in fact one of the things that made me un-sit from the fence.

Thanks everyone for yor comments; i'll be more specific, i'm a Mexican backer and some stores in Mexico City are already taking pre-orders for the main boxed set and wave one packages with a delivery date on december 1st. One of the store managers he told me that they'll be receiving the shipment on the previous Friday or Saturday and that they're not KS orders but retail ones. I'm not against getting my order after retail is open, but i want to know if there was a problem with my order or something as i don't know how is it possible that retail stores have a delivery date and i dont.
I thank you forehand for all your attentions.

Well the last PB update is very intersting, it seems that the oversea KS backers have been put to the back again in favour of US preorders and US retail. So we might see this in February next year....perhaps. As for Wave 2.......

So now we not only get to wait even longer but you still cannot confirm after over a year who your shipping partners are.

I am gettting to the point where I suspect UK Online retailers will have product well before I ever see this myself - so much for promises to your backer community

Yes over seas actually have to wait for their stuff to be put on a boat and sent to the sub distributers.

So while that happens you expect Palladium to do nothing?

Bluntly, yes. That's what was promised. That it's taken this long for PB to even prepare shipping out the UK / EU / ROW stuff is not the backer's problem and doesn't change what we were promised.

Personally if I ever get the opportunity to meet and greet any of the PB staff behind this debacle, I'll spit on the ground and walk away. Bitterly disappointed, and sadly, sharply aware of the warnings I was given before even backing. I hoped for better.

Some projects resolve this issue by mailing out international packages first, so everyone often ends up getting their boxes at roughly the same time.

It's not a perfect solution, but it's not a new issue in the KS community.

Forar wrote:Some projects resolve this issue by mailing out international packages first, so everyone often ends up getting their boxes at roughly the same time.

It's not a perfect solution, but it's not a new issue in the KS community.

It may not be perfect, but mailing international first is a good thing to do. As a US backer, I would not have minded if the international folks were taken care of first.

TagsPB wrote:Yes over seas actually have to wait for their stuff to be put on a boat and sent to the sub distributers.

So while that happens you expect Palladium to do nothing?

In addition to Winterdyne's reply, there is the issue that PB is using stock that could have been used to fulfill RoW orders to ship to US retail, including internet sellers. That will mean it is available to international buyers before international backers. This means that:
a. Fulfillment of the commitment of what I was promised for my hard-earned money is being delayed in pursuit of profit because PB has put staff effort into setting up that distribution chain rather than sorting out international shipping, compounded by delays as their limited pool of labor is assumedly diverted to preparing and shipping to retail; and
b. They broke their promise that backers would be looked after before retail.

I don't give a damn about getting it first. Or last. What I am angry as hell about is my first-class money being given third-class treatment. They broke this promise. They've also hinted that import fees and charges for EU backers are a personal problem rather than the no-cost solution they promised. What's next?

To be fair, if they did receive containers 6 and 7 at the warehouse over a week ago, stock levels shouldn't be a concern, as long as they don't ship out more to retail than they had in excess anyway (plus a safety margin).

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure those pallets eat up man hours of work getting them ready for distribution, they surely have AN impact (how much, I have no idea), but materials shouldn't be an issue.

Yeah but so many things throughout this product *shouldn't* have been issues, but somehow (despite being obvious to anyone with the wherewithal to look up how things work in the minis and model production industry) were.

You'll forgive me if I have little faith in the organisation or planning abilities of PB.

WOW, are your freaking kidding me PB? how can u possibly be considering this?

This feels like a BETRAYAL plain and simple.

"In the end, you, our Kickstarter supporters, will be the first to receive a wonderful product that we hope will make you grin and provide endless hours of enjoyment."

"Being a Kickstarter backer. Your Kickstarter pledge goes toward funding a special project, to make that goal a reality. The product you are to receive as a Kickstarter backer is your reward for that pledge. Palladium Books is working diligently to finish the project you have so graciously helped to fund. And you WILL get the rewards promised. Believe that, because it is absolutely true.

Yes, there are delays. No, we cannot give you an exact release date yet – at this time – but we will as soon as we can make that happen.

In the end, you, our Kickstarter supporters, will be the first to receive a wonderful product that we hope will make you grin and provide endless hours of enjoyment. Thank you for sharing our dream. You, your pledges of support and unbridled enthusiasm are very much appreciated.

Keep the faith and we’ll continue to keep you informed along the way.

– Kevin Siembieda, Publisher"

So Knowing all that information and this is what we've had to go on from you Kevin. Could you please break tradition and INFORM us step by step the process your planning to use for shipping for ROW. With a timeline as you are losing the faith of the international community.

Ive been playing Table top games for quite a number of years, and continue to do so. so I frequently order from U.S, England, Europe, Many of these retailers offer Free or reduced shipping with orders placed with them, not once have I had any problems with taxes (order ranging from a few models $50 - $2000+ whole armies) could it be explained to me, how with the amount of time you have had to look into shipping to parts of the world how you can appear so inept at shipping. I can order $400+ worth of product (yes this would be quite bulky and would require a box to pack) from the US off http://www.discountgamesinc.com, and play $33.50 shipping, ive ordered from this site before and have received items in 2-3 weeks...
Take a look at http://www.thewarstore.com/ they will ship to AU, 2 Robotech RPG Tactics™ starter boxes for $40.

How can you justify spending man hours, prepairing\packing\shipping Retail orders when Kickstarter Orders have NOT been shipped. Assuming you have taken reasonable shipping arrangements for ROW to receive there items in a timely manner that many people would have a problem with retail orders being fulfilled. BUT when I can order from a US retailer at reduced shipping and receive the order BEFORE the kickstarter, this is just plain Wrong!.

Yet you fail to mention......that retailer is in fact lying about when they start shipping.
They say 1 business day till it leaves. Unless they ordered a pile as KS's they have no product yet!

But hey feel free to promote them......

I'm not going to get into an argument about this - despite my obvious disappointment on how this is being handled I will say this TagsPB.

Even if they dont have their stock (the stores) until Black Friday (which is this week if memory serves - sorry I'm in the UK now so I cant be expected to keep track of uniquely American things) And ship it - lets say for arguments sakes Monday next week... They'll still be with people who brought it online internationally before International backers would it not?

I raised this point during the Gencon incident and got a generic "don't worry" by many people on the KS comments. How many more broken promises and betrayals does the international community have to suffer before we are allowed to worry or even voice our displeasure in the way things are being handled?

In conclusion - its hard to keep the faith in a product, group or company when said product, group or company does nothing to justify it.

- End of Line -

TagsPB wrote:Yet you fail to mention......that retailer is in fact lying about when they start shipping.
They say 1 business day till it leaves. Unless they ordered a pile as KS's they have no product yet!

You keep claiming this, but we already have one shop that has shown pictures of product in hand, including expansions in boxes, which the "battle cry" extras aren't packed in.

Considering that buying expansions at KS prices would've been paying more than wholesale, it seems more likely that some stores are, in fact, getting product than some stores paid more than they needed to for cores and expansions a year and a half ago.

Unless they have craftily made their own retail boxes, the KISS principle indicates to me that some stores are simply receiving boxes. Hell, I might be able to wander over to my local store and see them on shelves in the next few days, as they've posted on Facebook that their RRT stock is due for delivery soon.

Forar wrote:

TagsPB wrote:Yet you fail to mention......that retailer is in fact lying about when they start shipping.
They say 1 business day till it leaves. Unless they ordered a pile as KS's they have no product yet!

You keep claiming this, but we already have one shop that has shown pictures of product in hand, including expansions in boxes, which the "battle cry" extras aren't packed in.

Considering that buying expansions at KS prices would've been paying more than wholesale, it seems more likely that some stores are, in fact, getting product than some stores paid more than they needed to for cores and expansions a year and a half ago.

Unless they have craftily made their own retail boxes, the KISS principle indicates to me that some stores are simply receiving boxes. Hell, I might be able to wander over to my local store and see them on shelves in the next few days, as they've posted on Facebook that their RRT stock is due for delivery soon.

What are you talking about? My expansions (above that of battlecry) came in the boxes they would for retail. Your premise is false. These very well could be backers selling their product.

Ummmm PB started shipping the bigger packages and extras for usa....weeks ago.
So those expansions have been out and able to be sold fo that long.

"weeks ago"?

i think you mean "last friday"

As someone who has gone down to help package and ship the boxes......I think I know what I mean.
Last Tuesday I packed the biggest single shipment I had done yet....12 main boxes plus associated extras and addons.

Phaze wrote:What are you talking about? My expansions (above that of battlecry) came in the boxes they would for retail. Your premise is false. These very well could be backers selling their product.

The expansions bought as add ons came with retail packaging. The battle cry bonuses come in a plastic baggy. Ergo, unless they're making their own retail boxes, either they paid more than wholesale for cores and add ons, or they bought battle cries full of extras they can't sell on shelves.

Also, apparently a store in Georgia has boxes on shelves right now, according to one of the backers that lives in the area, and confirmed that the owner was not a backer.

TagsPB wrote:As someone who has gone down to help package and ship the boxes......I think I know what I mean.
Last Tuesday I packed the biggest single shipment I had done yet....12 main boxes plus associated extras and addons.

Oh, so you have packed everything sent out every day so far?

Just because you didn't see it or help with it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Edit: My primary point is that stores seem to have stock in hand and arriving day by day, in the face of some truly baffling mental gymnastics to indicate that they don't, despite growing pictures and reports from people seeing them in stores, and proclamations that 'oh maybe they were backers' don't make sense unless they're making retail boxes (probably not a wise idea), Palladium was kind enough to toss them a big pile of extra boxes (also probably not a good idea) or they paid through the nose for materials a year and a half ago and have somehow managed to remain entirely content to have spent thousands of dollars on stock that took an extra year to arrive (not terribly likely).

If you have see it in stores.

Tell Palladium Books.

How simple is that?


It is not supposed to be in stores yet.

No it's just easier to say it's been seen and then say it's Palladium doing it.


It's not in Toronto stores.......I know........I checked.

Oh, which stores did you call?

Also, I never said it was, though according to the main store I know of carrying the product, their Facebook page says they expect it to be in any day now.

That said, I haven't seen PB state an official "street date" for this. Feel free to point me to where they've indicated that "stores selling stuff they paid for" isn't the system working as intended.

Hell, other than video games, CDs, DVDs and Magic cards, who actually even bothers with those?

I think PB is missing the simple fact a lot of ROW retailers use stores in the US as distributors, so once it hits those stores as for sale, exactly what is stopping them from ordering and reselling the product, or in fact ANYONE from doing this.

Like my experiment for example, from the locked thread:

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac30 ... er-RRT.png

Anyone willing to give me odds on my pledge getting to me before this order from MM?

Edit: never mind, MM's definition of "in stock" needs work.

That order form has a date ordered on it.......but not a shipping date OR an expected delivery date.

I didn't call any of the stores. I went to them and asked.....all said they would get it in sometime on the 26th.

And I do believe all product shipped to distributors did say not to be sent out to stores till the 26th.


And if you noticed on that shipping order to send 1 expansion pack to Australia it costs $13usd.


Edited for spelling of Australia and correct shipping price.

The posted screenshot is simply the invoice of my order, which I ordered from MM as a pre-order. I never said it was in stock when I ordered it. I maintain my confidence, however, that it will get to me before my pledge.

And I don't know why you keep bringing up the cost of the postage. It's never been an issue. I suspect you may be confusing that issue with the separate issue raised by the last PB update that implied that EU backers might have to pay any import duties/VAT and so on, in contravention of the KS FAQ page. That is not an issue for Australian backers like myself: We only get hit with additional taxes if the declared value of the package is over $1000 AUD.

I'll leave this here;
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/palladium ... 23465.html

And I'll add this:

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac30 ... ipping.png

Still no takers on my bet that this will beat my pledge to my front door.

I offered someone 2 to 1 odds that my Shadows of Brimstone boxes would arrive before RRT did, despite the latter having actively begun shipping while the former was starting to slip a little on their schedule.

He didn't bite, but it appears that SoB won with mere days to spare as it was, so it totally could've gone either way.

winterdyne wrote:I'll leave this here;
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/palladium ... 23465.html

just so everyone's aware, if u add waylandfreeshipping as a voucher code, ill let u guess what happends......

I'm a french KS backer (Battle cry+ YF-4 + decals).

I also ordered a boxed game from a french shop LAST YEAR IN NOVEMBER.

http://www.ludikbazar.com/product_info. ... s_id=91067

I doubt i'll receive my box before my KS, why ?

Because the logistic chain has one (or two) more intermediate(s) and of course don't forget the zealous customs who will fervently do their job.

This is logic and I really doubt US shops will give priority to internationals orders from locals customers.

Ordering from a local shop is not the same as ordering from a global retailer. Global retailers certainly don't give priority to overseas customers, but they don't really prioritise anywhere. Problem is, we in the EU/RoW can now order product and get it before our pledges. Or others who didn't back can. Take it as you like, we've been boned either way.

I understand, but, if you want to ordre from an US retailer feel free to do so, you will have to pay extra VAT and shipping, and you won't have the KS bonuses.
I understand that some people feel boned, Palladium didn't play fair by taking pre orders at Gencon and shipping boxes to retail shops when backers from EU/ROW didn't have their pledges.

In your opinion, Palladium had to wait for the pledges to be delivered in EU/ROW and then send to retailers ?

This is suicide because they would miss the black friday and the game would never go out from the US or in very limited quantities...
It can be frustrating, but waiting for my pledge won't change the fun I'll have to mount and play RRT figures (I even lost a bet with a friend on the delivery date).

One sure thing, is, that I won't ever KS a Palladium Books project, because as you said, they boned EU/ROW backers by sending ours goods last.
Why should I back a game I'll have after US retailer ?

Complaining won't change anything at this point. They Have the cash and begun the set for shipping EU, Wayland said on their site that the'll begin to send the base boxes on 15th January. This means that most of EU Backers will have their products on this date.

Huckebeinmk2 wrote:Complaining won't change anything at this point.

Disagree.

Such discussions are potentially valuable input from their fan/consumer base for when another such issue comes up.

I suspect we'll have some other controversy pop up regarding wave two and/or Gencon pop up sometime in 2015.

The simple point here is that they should have fulfilled their promise to ALL their backers, but as you say the lure of cash was to great.

If RoW shipping was going to take longer - as they always knew it would - then perhaps those pledges should have shipped first? Can you imagine the furore if it was the US backers who missed out?

As for ordering direct now and having to pay VAT etc, it is not clear if PB are still homouring that promise about a flat shipping charge to the EU, as still after 18 monhs they have not confirmed their shippiing partner. This is worrying given their own admission they got the basics such as maximum package size wrong.

Sadly, the last u[date here is still not clear and there has not been any update on these changes on the KS site either.

It would be nice if someone in the know - rather than us speculating - would come here and to KS and clearly set out what is now happenning

Looking on a EU retailer web site, they put the shipping date of Tactics as 15 January.

1. Its a randomly plucked date from thin air
2. its when they expect there order to arrive from PB (and PB is not telling us something, its not like they are not guilty of this in the past.)
3. they have ordered from a US retailer and are reselling, who can blame them.

but I doubt well hear from PB either way.

Actually I told all my friends about this (and X-wing) at about the same time. As a group we're now way north of £5k in X-wing stuff.

This, I don't think anyone but me will touch, and if it's as time-consuming as it looks to be it may well join Sedition Wars on the shelf.

well well, it seems things are moving Europe-way

Barring some out of time nazi sub wolfpacking our ship or a rogue iceberg, we should get our stuff on February (sorry Kevin but January is a ludicrous assumption: 6 weeks voyage to the distribution center starting on the 15th of december means that if we are luck they'll start distribute stuff on the 27th. and luck is not included in this kickstarter: must have been one locked strech goal)

that said ONE question is still prominent in my mind: only one of the following statements can be true, and both came from palladium:

update 40 states unequivocably: European backers will not be required to pay VAT or other additional import fees

one of the latest Kevin updates states: the recipient will, of course, be responsible for any and all fees, taxes and duties their government may charge

IF the second pertains European backers, ONE of the two statement is wrong: WHICH ONE? If it's the second, no arm done, IF (and only IF) it's the first, I'm sorry but I will have to state a tread-blocking truth: we will have been lied to. I sent a mail to Palladium asking exactly this and hope to receive a reassuring reply soon: will keep you informed.

Answering one retorical question present in the last of Kevin's Update:

We hope our overseas backers were not too disappointed that Palladium shipped to distributors here in the USA and Canada before shipping to them.

Personally I am, but considering that this specific choice of Palladium didn't impact the timeline for Europe more than a week, I am much more concerned about having to spend MORE money.

Keep in mind Europe is more then JUST the British Isles......there are some countries that unless shipped within them directly will get taxed/duty applied.

Boxes have arrived in Canada, will be picked up tomorrow, with a $50 Canadian ($45 or so US?) customs duty due.

Will battlefoam distribute our pledges in Europe ?

TagsPB wrote:Keep in mind Europe is more then JUST the British Isles......there are some countries that unless shipped within them directly will get taxed/duty applied.

You are right. Let me be more specific: i'am a backer from the EU. No import taxes are applied internally the EU and UK is inside.

And if you're an Aussie / Kiwi you're last on the list, after European distributors / retailers.

I'm in the UK, and I'm literally seething over the latest KS (and I mean both Kevin and Kickstarter) update. It was very poorly worded, very poorly planned. Actually, I'm considerably more angry now than I was before. The post did not read as a 'sorry, we done messed up', more as a 'Screw you, we'll do what we want. And it's all Wayne's fault.'. And it STILL didn't publicly confirm who the shipping agent is while at the same time stating that Kevin doesn't think RoW backers are being kept in the dark.

NMI, I know you check these threads so I'm trying to be generally civil, but again you need to have a word up the tree and let the powers that be know that this situation just got worse. Even after receiving stuff, many people are now going to be actively gunning for Palladium unless things are handled. I mentioned the mini's community is close knit. It is, and it also bears a grudge remarkably well, and is quite happy to be vocal about it. Any subsequent crowdfunding attempt with the current attitude in the community toward Palladium will quite likely fail due to mistrust. You are very likely to notice this at Adepticon and similar important mini-related events.