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PetertheWookie wrote:Hello everyone. Im new to this forum and the game its self. I was looking for some help with creating a Temporal Wizard? I dont have a working computer atm so trying to do this with my crappy phone is a little intimidating... As far as my dm has told me, we are playing on earth either during or post apocalyptic setting. the others in the group are an apok(i think?) dragon spawn, maybe a juicer, and technowizard. i was thinking of doing 14 years of raider apprenticeship. i dont have a backstory yet but will work on it. are there races in this game and do they have the same affect on pc's like in dnd? i look forward to your help, thanks for reading!

Well I've read your post a few times now and to be honest, I'm not really sure what the "help" is that you're looking for? I'll start with your party makeup...

Apok: A former evil person turned good, on a path for redemption. The dimension/planet (Wormwood) where they originate from empowers these sorts of warriors with special abilities, including natural M.D.C..

Dragon Spawn: Sounds like a Dragon Hatchling to me, there's 8 or 10 or so varieties in total they could be but they all get psionics, magic (eventually), and natural M.D.C..

Juicer: Could be main book standard, or any of the variants from World Book 10. May or may not be natural M.D.C. depending on which type of Juicer (most are S.D.C. though). Regardless though these guys are all quick and hard to hit.

Technowizard: A mage who focuses on imbuing technology with magic. Typically only those with magic or psionics can make the best use of those items, but others can use them with limited ability.

As far as the Temporal Wizards go... a 14 year apprenticeship starts you at a higher level, but you are restricted to only evil or Anarchist alignment so make sure your GM is all right with that before you settle on it. Evil characters in a predominately "Good" party can make the game stressful. You'll also start off with two special insanities from the special insanity table in the O.C.C. section.

As far as races go, Palladium does not treat races in the same way as D&D, where you select Race and then stack a Class on it. Many races in Palladium are considered to have their own, special R.C.C. (Racial Character Class) instead of O.C.C. (Occupational Character Class) and that's it. In some cases the races are allowed to take other O.C.C.'s instead but that can occasionally get confusing since the write-ups don't always do a good job separating what abilities the Race keeps and loses when it moves away from its R.C.C.. This is another situation where you'd want to work with the Game Master to make sure you're not building a character that's more powerful (or weaker) than the G.M. expects.

Hope this was helpful. Any other questions just let us know.

One of the unwritten "benefits" of a Temporal Wizard is that you start play as a character who has spent years shadowing and training under a dimensional traveler (a Temporal Raider). This background gives your character the potential to have visited any number of various dimensions (such as Palladium, The Dimension of Pillars, Wormwood, Phaseworld, etc.), which could be used as justification for unusual skills, gear, spells, and in general just knowledge about those dimensions. Starting play by knowing the Dimensional Portal spell allows a Temporal Wizard to also open portals to any of those dimensions.

You could also incorporate some previously cast "Dimensional Envelopes" into your backstory in some convenient spots throughout the Megaverse. Since each envelope is a separate dimension, you can open Dimensional Portals to them and though you arrive somewhere "random" in that dimension, it's only a 10ft × 10ft × 6ft room, so you're certain to get to where you want to be. You can then just walk out and be exactly where you set the dimensional envelope in the anchoring dimension! That's a handy shortcut to get to somewhere relatively specific in a dimension.

A couple of other quick things: The Shifter write-up in the Rifts: Ultimate Edition talks about the "accuracy" of Dimensional Portals, and I don't think it's written up anywhere else. The Rifts: Book of Magic in the Q&A section has rules for absorbing and holding more P.P.E. than the character's base normally allows, and that's handy for casting the higher level spells you'll have access to. In the back pages of the book "Dimension Book 13: Fleets of the Three Galaxies" there are special invocations called "Space Magic" that could prove useful, as well as some new Temporal Magic spells.

Glistam wrote:The Dimension of Pillars

Is this mentioned in a Rifts dimension book or PF world book or something? I can't remember hearing about this before...

I generally recommend against starting above 1st level, especially if the rest of the party is "good".

Talisman is the key to being able to cast Dimensional Portal, so you'll either want to start with it or select it when you get to 2nd level. Depending on what rules your GM uses for absorbing PPE from people and the environment, you might also want to start with Energy Sphere.

Make use of Dimensional Envelopes as Glistam suggested.

Lots of opportunity for a Temporal Wizard. They're my favorite OCC in the whole game.

--flatline

Tor wrote:

Glistam wrote:The Dimension of Pillars

Is this mentioned in a Rifts dimension book or PF world book or something? I can't remember hearing about this before...

It can be found in Dimension Book 7, Megaverse Builder.

I suggest True Atlantean as a possible race. Definitely take the Taliisman spell. If your team cooperates together you should easily be able between the team to absorb the 500 plus PPE required to cast Talisman in a little over 4 minutes on a ley line. Assuming 4.5 minutes per Talisman that will be at least 13 Talismans an hour. In our game you just have to activate a Talisman which takes 1 action. This allows you to cast spells up to 8th level in a single action using talismans. My Temporal Wizard has built up his PPE talisman supply to 100 talismans now plus others with spells in them. Create Scroll is also a must have. Best way to store high level spells like Teleport is a scroll.

Verify with your GM that you will be allowed to start play above first level before you get too far. That is not customary, even though level has fewer impacts on balance in this game than others.

If the GM approves of Race/RCC and OCC combos then the Silhouette in the Phase World book goes really well with the Temporal OCCs.

Mlp7029 wrote:I suggest True Atlantean as a possible race. Definitely take the Taliisman spell. If your team cooperates together you should easily be able between the team to absorb the 500 plus PPE required to cast Talisman in a little over 4 minutes on a ley line. Assuming 4.5 minutes per Talisman that will be at least 13 Talismans an hour. In our game you just have to activate a Talisman which takes 1 action. This allows you to cast spells up to 8th level in a single action using talismans. My Temporal Wizard has built up his PPE talisman supply to 100 talismans now plus others with spells in them. Create Scroll is also a must have. Best way to store high level spells like Teleport is a scroll.

[off topic rant]And people wonder why GM's tend to dislike the Temporal Classes, and PC access to the Talisman spell. 100 ppe storing talismans means you have 3000+PPE to play with....not to mention probably any spell level 1-8 on 'hot button' So yah, threats and challenges that scale to you are going to have to be either incredibly powerful, or just be curb stomps.[/off topic rant]
Before you try anything like this, make sure you have a long talk with your GM about what sort of game they are running. If they are planning to have a low to mid power local story of personal triumphs and tragedy....then a god like archmage who can slay whole armies single handedly is probably NOT going to work out well in the game.

eliakon wrote:

Mlp7029 wrote:I suggest True Atlantean as a possible race. Definitely take the Taliisman spell. If your team cooperates together you should easily be able between the team to absorb the 500 plus PPE required to cast Talisman in a little over 4 minutes on a ley line. Assuming 4.5 minutes per Talisman that will be at least 13 Talismans an hour. In our game you just have to activate a Talisman which takes 1 action. This allows you to cast spells up to 8th level in a single action using talismans. My Temporal Wizard has built up his PPE talisman supply to 100 talismans now plus others with spells in them. Create Scroll is also a must have. Best way to store high level spells like Teleport is a scroll.

[off topic rant]And people wonder why GM's tend to dislike the Temporal Classes, and PC access to the Talisman spell. 100 ppe storing talismans means you have 3000+PPE to play with....not to mention probably any spell level 1-8 on 'hot button' So yah, threats and challenges that scale to you are going to have to be either incredibly powerful, or just be curb stomps.[/off topic rant]

There are plenty of natural limitations that restrict this:

• How does one access any of these talismen on demand, in a combat situation? G.M.'s call, but too many talismen and the player will never find the one he wants in the instant he wants it.
• Talismen register as magical items, and there are creatures/beings who are drawn to magic.
• Talismen are great targets for thieves.
• A single P.P.E. talisman holds only 50 P.P.E. (initially) or 30 P.P.E. (after its been recharged). Taking P.P.E. from it counts as an action. You may have 100 of them, but it will take 100 actions to empty them all.
  
  • By that same token, a mage can only hold so much P.P.E. (3× base according to Rifts: Book of Magic) and any spell which costs more P.P.E. than that has to be cast as a ritual instead. Did the mage learn the ritual version of the spell? You don't automatically get both.
• Recharging talismen is a chore. While there are "tricks" that can be developed which can make it go faster it's still a time-consuming task for the player to deal with, even in optimal conditions.

Those are just off the top of my head, and were things I dealt with when I played my Temporal Wizard in a high-power game. I had manipulated my characters free time in such crazy ways that I needed to make excel spreadsheets in order to keep track of how the talismen and scrolls were being made - time, P.P.E. costs, meditation and P.P.E. recharging... it was a chore. Now granted, I ended up with some pretty cool items, but it was both a lot of upkeep to manage and it was something I had to constantly worry would fall into enemy hands and be used against me.

eliakon wrote:Before you try anything like this, make sure you have a long talk with your GM about what sort of game they are running. If they are planning to have a low to mid power local story of personal triumphs and tragedy....then a god like archmage who can slay whole armies single handedly is probably NOT going to work out well in the game.

I agree 100% that you ultimately need to discuss this with the G.M.. But a Temporal Wizard with all these talismen is hardly a "god like archmage who can slay whole armies single handedly".

eliakon wrote:

Mlp7029 wrote:I suggest True Atlantean as a possible race. Definitely take the Taliisman spell. If your team cooperates together you should easily be able between the team to absorb the 500 plus PPE required to cast Talisman in a little over 4 minutes on a ley line. Assuming 4.5 minutes per Talisman that will be at least 13 Talismans an hour. In our game you just have to activate a Talisman which takes 1 action. This allows you to cast spells up to 8th level in a single action using talismans. My Temporal Wizard has built up his PPE talisman supply to 100 talismans now plus others with spells in them. Create Scroll is also a must have. Best way to store high level spells like Teleport is a scroll.

[off topic rant]And people wonder why GM's tend to dislike the Temporal Classes, and PC access to the Talisman spell. 100 ppe storing talismans means you have 3000+PPE to play with....not to mention probably any spell level 1-8 on 'hot button' So yah, threats and challenges that scale to you are going to have to be either incredibly powerful, or just be curb stomps.[/off topic rant]
Before you try anything like this, make sure you have a long talk with your GM about what sort of game they are running. If they are planning to have a low to mid power local story of personal triumphs and tragedy....then a god like archmage who can slay whole armies single handedly is probably NOT going to work out well in the game.

Perhaps you should try playing a Temporal Wizard in the manner you've just ranted about and then see how it goes. My prediction is that it will go badly, even with a cooperative GM.

Talisman is a way to trade time and surplus PPE now for a little extra PPE or quick casting of a medium or low level spell at a later time. That's all it is. Since the GM controls the pace of the game and the availability of surplus PPE, you can never create more Talismans than the GM lets you. Having a large number of Talismans is great, but if you use them, then they're no good to you until you have the chance to recharge them which, again, takes time and PPE.

--flatline

Glistam wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Mlp7029 wrote:I suggest True Atlantean as a possible race. Definitely take the Taliisman spell. If your team cooperates together you should easily be able between the team to absorb the 500 plus PPE required to cast Talisman in a little over 4 minutes on a ley line. Assuming 4.5 minutes per Talisman that will be at least 13 Talismans an hour. In our game you just have to activate a Talisman which takes 1 action. This allows you to cast spells up to 8th level in a single action using talismans. My Temporal Wizard has built up his PPE talisman supply to 100 talismans now plus others with spells in them. Create Scroll is also a must have. Best way to store high level spells like Teleport is a scroll.

[off topic rant]And people wonder why GM's tend to dislike the Temporal Classes, and PC access to the Talisman spell. 100 ppe storing talismans means you have 3000+PPE to play with....not to mention probably any spell level 1-8 on 'hot button' So yah, threats and challenges that scale to you are going to have to be either incredibly powerful, or just be curb stomps.[/off topic rant]

There are plenty of natural limitations that restrict this:

• How does one access any of these talismen on demand, in a combat situation? G.M.'s call, but too many talismen and the player will never find the one he wants in the instant he wants it.

The usual solution I have seen is small jewelry items. Since you just have to be touching the talisman to cast the spell you don't have to actually pull it out and hold it.

Glistam wrote:

Talismen register as magical items, and there are creatures/beings who are drawn to magic.

Talismen are great targets for thieves.

True

Glistam wrote:

A single P.P.E. talisman holds only 50 P.P.E. (initially) or 30 P.P.E. (after its been recharged). Taking P.P.E. from it counts as an action. You may have 100 of them, but it will take 100 actions to empty them all.

Source? There is, as far as I know, nothing in canon about it taking an action to take PPE from a talisman, nor that you an only take PPE from one source at a time.

Glistam wrote:

• By that same token, a mage can only hold so much P.P.E. (3× base according to Rifts: Book of Magic) and any spell which costs more P.P.E. than that has to be cast as a ritual instead. Did the mage learn the ritual version of the spell? You don't automatically get both.

So? You can use the PPE from the talisman as 'outside source' to cast a spell. Same as when you use any other outside source. You don't have to cast a spell as a ritual to use PPE that is not yours.
[

Glistam wrote:/*:m]

Recharging talismen is a chore. While there are "tricks" that can be developed which can make it go faster it's still a time-consuming task for the player to deal with, even in optimal conditions.

Those are just off the top of my head, and were things I dealt with when I played my Temporal Wizard in a high-power game. I had manipulated my characters free time in such crazy ways that I needed to make excel spreadsheets in order to keep track of how the talismen and scrolls were being made - time, P.P.E. costs, meditation and P.P.E. recharging... it was a chore. Now granted, I ended up with some pretty cool items, but it was both a lot of upkeep to manage and it was something I had to constantly worry would fall into enemy hands and be used against me.

Yes it can be a chore. It also though makes ANY down time that the GM gives the players have the potential to be, for lack of a better word, abused. If the GM tries to time skip a week while the robot pilots mecha is fixed, then the Talisman guy can suddenly come out with dozens of talismans, or hundreds if they are really twinking out the rules.

Glistam wrote:

eliakon wrote:Before you try anything like this, make sure you have a long talk with your GM about what sort of game they are running. If they are planning to have a low to mid power local story of personal triumphs and tragedy....then a god like archmage who can slay whole armies single handedly is probably NOT going to work out well in the game.

I agree 100% that you ultimately need to discuss this with the G.M.. But a Temporal Wizard with all these talismen is hardly a "god like archmage who can slay whole armies single handedly".

Having had such mages in games and watched them do just that I am going to have to disagree.
Unless they were killed in one action, they were almost unstoppable. Talismans of Invincible Armor, Time Slip, Life Drain, Mental Shock, Targeted Deflection, Death Bolt, Armor of Ithan, Necro-Armor, Armor Bizarre, and the like.

I'm not going to derail this topic further with this tangent. We've both read the same rules and we've come to different conclusions. That's how this game works.

What the original poster should take from this is that it's crucial to discuss things like this with the G.M. in order to get their take on how the rules will work to enhance or limit the player's ideas. A Temporal Wizard who has the Talisman spell could be just the right power level or could be a total nightmare depending both on how the player runs it and how the G.M. handles it.

Glistam wrote:I'm not going to derail this topic further with this tangent. We've both read the same rules and we've come to different conclusions. That's how this game works.

What the original poster should take from this is that it's crucial to discuss things like this with the G.M. in order to get their take on how the rules will work to enhance or limit the player's ideas. A Temporal Wizard who has the Talisman spell could be just the right power level or could be a total nightmare depending both on how the player runs it and how the G.M. handles it.

I posted some time ago on how to manage your relationship with the GM and other party members. It seems relevant, so here's a link: http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=134985

--flatline

apex-prey wrote:

Thinyser wrote:If the GM approves of Race/RCC and OCC combos then the Silhouette in the Phase World book goes really well with the Temporal OCCs.

Awe I was gonna say the same I've done it my self for a NPC bad guy ended up super nasty

Yeah I ran a Silhouette Temporal Warrior for a while, super fun, good combo of sneaky/stealthy, magic, and direct combat. Obsidian "Sid" for short was a espionage specialist who could sneak into almost anywhere and fight/magic his way out if $#!+ hit the fan.

flatline wrote:

Glistam wrote:I'm not going to derail this topic further with this tangent. We've both read the same rules and we've come to different conclusions. That's how this game works.

What the original poster should take from this is that it's crucial to discuss things like this with the G.M. in order to get their take on how the rules will work to enhance or limit the player's ideas. A Temporal Wizard who has the Talisman spell could be just the right power level or could be a total nightmare depending both on how the player runs it and how the G.M. handles it.

I posted some time ago on how to manage your relationship with the GM and other party members. It seems relevant, so here's a link: http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=134985

--flatline

That is an amazing amount of good advice in that link there.

Glistam wrote:

flatline wrote:

Glistam wrote:I'm not going to derail this topic further with this tangent. We've both read the same rules and we've come to different conclusions. That's how this game works.

What the original poster should take from this is that it's crucial to discuss things like this with the G.M. in order to get their take on how the rules will work to enhance or limit the player's ideas. A Temporal Wizard who has the Talisman spell could be just the right power level or could be a total nightmare depending both on how the player runs it and how the G.M. handles it.

I posted some time ago on how to manage your relationship with the GM and other party members. It seems relevant, so here's a link: http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=134985

--flatline

That is an amazing amount of good advice in that link there.

Thank you. Some of those lessons were hard to learn, but seem obvious in hindsight.

--flatline

flatline wrote:I generally recommend against starting above 1st level, especially if the rest of the party is "good".

Talisman is the key to being able to cast Dimensional Portal, so you'll either want to start with it or select it when you get to 2nd level. Depending on what rules your GM uses for absorbing PPE from people and the environment, you might also want to start with Energy Sphere.

Make use of Dimensional Envelopes as Glistam suggested.

Lots of opportunity for a Temporal Wizard. They're my favorite OCC in the whole game.

--flatline

Where do I find the talisman and Energy Sphere spells?
And as a race I took the Fairy Dragon from the forum's, He likes to make trouble by stealing from food venders.

Shadowdragon7 wrote:

flatline wrote:I generally recommend against starting above 1st level, especially if the rest of the party is "good".

Talisman is the key to being able to cast Dimensional Portal, so you'll either want to start with it or select it when you get to 2nd level. Depending on what rules your GM uses for absorbing PPE from people and the environment, you might also want to start with Energy Sphere.

Make use of Dimensional Envelopes as Glistam suggested.

Lots of opportunity for a Temporal Wizard. They're my favorite OCC in the whole game.

--flatline

Where do I find the talisman and Energy Sphere spells?
And as a race I took the Fairy Dragon from the forum's, He likes to make trouble by stealing from food venders.

Talisman is in RMB. For some reason they left it out of RUE.
Energy Sphere was introduced in Federation of Magic.

Both can now be found in the Book of Magic.

--flatline

Can a draconid from phase world start out as a temporal Wizard in some way?

If they can learn magic, then I see no reason why not. If they are mystics who intuit their magic, then I would rule not.

--flatline

flatline wrote:If they can learn magic, then I see no reason why not. If they are mystics who intuit their magic, then I would rule not.

--flatline

They are actually creatures of magic, related to dragons (but not true dragons), who subconciously intuit the powers of a Ley Line Walker, but it is explicit that this development is subconcious and the process starts subconciously at birth