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Just a quick poll, I myself would be interested in seeing the results, and I think PB should see the results of this poll so we can get a snap shot of how the community feels about the recent update.

I would love to see a poll on if everyone should be made the full price of their shipping........I feel that should come before this one.

I'm pretty sure I paid the full price agreed upon with Kickstarter/PB when backing the project as did everyone else Internationally.

Why is it the international communities fault if the company agreeing to provide and ship a product to them miscalculates what that would cost?

- End of Line -

Pointless poll, in that they're already doing whatever they damn well please with our money anyway.

winterdyne wrote:Pointless poll, in that they're already doing whatever they damn well please with our money anyway.

Because pointless polls tell company's that they have screwed up and its unacceptable what they are doing.

"I would love to see a poll on if everyone should be made the full price of their shipping........I feel that should come before this one."

we paid international shipping, which was more than domestic, why is everyone drinking the coolaid when PB tells you shipping is a massive cost?, it took PB since (and im assuming before) May 21, 2013. to get this to where it is now, do you think they spent the shipping budget, Hell yer, do you think they are trying to find the cheapest alternative to putting someone in a row boat to get it there. of course they are.

Tzneentch wrote:Just a quick poll, I myself would be interested in seeing the results, and I think PB should see the results of this poll so we can get a snap shot of how the community feels about the recent update.

I didn't back the Kickstarter, mostly because I'm too familiar with Robotech's history.

From the viewpoint of an outside observer, businessman, and occasional supporter of Palladium, I have to say it makes a certain amount of practical, short-term business sense to get the product in retail stores in the US ASAP. We're entering the peak holiday shopping period, and while Robotech being so old and obscure won't see it moving huge volumes of product on name recognition, they're still likely to sell better than they would at any other time of year. More people are going to be in stores, so there's a far greater chance that someone WILL recognize the name and buy it on impulse... and that's money in the Palladium Books bank account in the short term.

On the other hand... that short-term boost to sales could do a fair bit of damage to the long-term viability of the line. A customer that feels betrayed stops buying, and unfortunately the handling of the Kickstarter has left a fair few backers feeling betrayed. Those upset backers probably won't support a Kickstarter for an expansion to the game, if one is forthcoming. (One theory holds that we've already seen the negative reaction to the Kickstarter updates spill over into other projects... like Robotech Academy.)


On balance, I think the safest move for Palladium is to try to do both... put everything else on hold, get EVERYONE'S butts into the warehouse, and get the international orders out over the Thanksgiving break. That way, they can have their cake and eat it too.

winterdyne wrote:Pointless poll, in that they're already doing whatever they damn well please with our money anyway.

http://consumerist.com/2014/04/08/congr ... n-america/


wonder if they are taking 2015 nominations?

We still don't know who the UK distribution agent is. There is no confirmation it's even arranged at this point.

Even if stuff went on a boat now, you're still looking at in the regions of 3-5 weeks before a UK distributor could sort orders, pack and start to post stuff to backers. Logistically speaking this should have been sorted long ago.

I'm resigned to the fact I won't see any product at all until well into next year. That I can order it from MiniatureMarket or wherever and get it in my hands before does nothing for me other than (pardon my french) **** me right off.

The fact is we (as backers) were promised that we'd get the product before non backers. That's regardless of location, ordering process (ie from a US seller or not), or PB's financial situation. PB lied. I'm open to counterpoints, but I don't see any.

PB have also not updated the kickstarter page with what they're doing. As far as I can tell, it's a breach of KS rules so openly saying what they're doing on the KS page would probably be foolish. I've reported it as such. Pretty certain others will have too. I have no idea (nor do I really care) what punitive measures Kickstarter might implement. I feel this is an attempt to deliberately obfuscate what's going on until such point as it's too late to do anything about it (it already is, really). Certainly an attempt to avoid the **** that would kick off as folks who don't keep tabs on what's going on find out all at once.

Tzneentch wrote:we paid international shipping, which was more than domestic, why is everyone drinking the coolaid when PB tells you shipping is a massive cost?, it took PB since (and im assuming before) May 21, 2013. to get this to where it is now, do you think they spent the shipping budget, Hell yer, do you think they are trying to find the cheapest alternative to putting someone in a row boat to get it there. of course they are.

While I don't doubt that while shipping prices have increased, at least one popular online retailer is offering almost 30% off retail, and shipping is $30 for the first core box, and $10* for each additional box. If they can do that on already slim margins, and PB can't, something is off.

* The shipping progression was weird. For 1-8 First Contact boxes, it went $30/$40/$50/$55/$65/$70/$80/$85.

"But oh noes, Palladium split shipping into waves! That's extra cost!". Yes, and completely their choice. They wanted to go retail early, and as a consequence, changed the process. If they'd stuck to their initial campaign promise (and delivered on it) of everything before retail, they wouldn't have the increased shipping. Split shipping was NOT an altruistic offer. It was a business decision so they could go retail sooner. So an increase in shipping costs SHOULD have been part of that calculation.

From a pure business perspective, going retail in time is a good choice. Basically, PB have probably passed the point of no return with a significant (not necessarily majority) percentage of backers, whereas retailers haven't been pooched yet. So getting stuff out to people who aren't going to be satisfied regardless is less of a priority than getting it to people who may actually re-up their purchases in the future. Not saying it's a good idea overall, or that backers don't have a right to be angry, but I can see it from a short-term perspective to try and get back on track. Upset backers are unlikely to be worth the resources and effort to sway back.

However, upset backers are certainly going to upend the cart next time a kickstarter is attempted. I for one will be warning anyone I know, or anyone that follow me or my work online (such as it is) off backing a PB project. Too much risk, and too little evidence of any lessons being learned.

winterdyne wrote:However, upset backers are certainly going to upend the cart next time a kickstarter is attempted. I for one will be warning anyone I know, or anyone that follow me or my work online (such as it is) off backing a PB project. Too much risk, and too little evidence of any lessons being learned.

Agreed on all counts (especially the last). I don't think PB can rely on another Kickstarter. Either they'll do it from scratch if RRT blows up (and they're flush with cash) or they'll introduce it mostly through a slow release an expansion box or two at a time (if it plods along financially). Or they'll just one and done if the retail market isn't there.

But I agree, another KS probably isn't on the cards, and that's kind of the last point in my previous post. They can't change the perceptions of the backers, so why appeal to them? Try and keep the retailers who haven't been burnt on the happy side.

Well pointless or not it gets a no vote from me.

I can almost make myself consider the retail argument, on a good night with a big glass of whisky - or two inside me, but I cannot see any justification whatsoever for fulfilling their preorders.

The fact that the EU/UK partners have not been announced, the statement that they got the package size for the EU wrong, the attempt to back pedal on the flat shipping fee. already has me worried. However if all the efforts (and available container stock) have gone into the retail operation, when is it likely RoW shipping will even start, Jan 2015? Note if this is a big winner in the next few weeks will PB continue to pour our product into the US retail scene?

I went with no. You can't honestly tell me there's a difference between one backer and another, especially with the Internet.

Doubly so with the prevalence of global commerce.

"Shipping to US and Canadian shops" still means global sales will occur. Those people just have to be willing to pay more for shipping than US or Canadian consumers might.

It's not like it was decades ago, where having something in town or special ordering it through another shop was the only way to get things. If CSI or MM or MM or TWS or whomever start receiving stock, then it's available. Not just in North America, but available, period.

And while this particular point may be a moot issue, it's worth noting how people respond to it, because it will come up again. With Wave Two, with a future project (Robotech, Rifts, otherwise), wherever it might be, this won't be the only time this matter needs addressing.

I'll leave this here;
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/palladium ... 23465.html

Forar wrote:Doubly so with the prevalence of global commerce.

"Shipping to US and Canadian shops" still means global sales will occur. Those people just have to be willing to pay more for shipping than US or Canadian consumers might.

It's not like it was decades ago, where having something in town or special ordering it through another shop was the only way to get things. If CSI or MM or MM or TWS or whomever start receiving stock, then it's available. Not just in North America, but available, period.

And while this particular point may be a moot issue, it's worth noting how people respond to it, because it will come up again. With Wave Two, with a future project (Robotech, Rifts, otherwise), wherever it might be, this won't be the only time this matter needs addressing.

I think this has just highlighted how VERY VERY BAD PB's shipping is. They saw the issue coming when they got such a huge response to the KS, and when it was getting close to the time they were releasing updates that made them sound shocked that it was going to take this much effort to complete.

Oh, I'm certainly not trying to insinuate this hasn't been... an adventure, to put it politely, but it's also a learning experience.

Wave 2 alone will be an opportunity to show that they've learned from it, and if they do another campaign, that'd be yet another.

The latter of which would also be a chance to improve how they manage people's expectations. If they intend to leave themselves the option to sell at conventions and to ship to retail distribution, they should say as much, and if they intend for backers to remain the top priority (world wide), they'll probably need to do some significant convincing to get some to believe it.

Damage has been done (admittedly, looking at their FB page, it continues to be done), hopefully they'll find ways to improve shipping and clear communications with people going forward.