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In my copy of the Nightbane main book, none of the Morpheus forms provide an armor rating of any sort. Even the tables printed in Between the Shadows and Nightlands fail to provide any sort of A.R. to any of the Morpheus forms. However, the Nightbane Survival Guide seems to suddenly offer some Morpheus forms which can have a natural A.R., or add to an existing A.R..

What I wonder is, have any of the older books been shadow updated in order to start providing a natural A.R. to certain traits? Or is it just the traits in the Nightbane Survival Guide for some reason which provide any sort of A.R.?

Glistam wrote:In my copy of the Nightbane main book, none of the Morpheus forms provide an armor rating of any sort. Even the tables printed in Between the Shadows and Nightlands fail to provide any sort of A.R. to any of the Morpheus forms. However, the Nightbane Survival Guide seems to suddenly offer some Morpheus forms which can have a natural A.R., or add to an existing A.R..

What I wonder is, have any of the older books been shadow updated in order to start providing a natural A.R. to certain traits? Or is it just the traits in the Nightbane Survival Guide for some reason which provide any sort of A.R.?

This errata was included in my Dark Designs manuscript.

Sweet... it always bothered me that a Nightbane that had a morphus of living stone or metal didn't have an AR like a HU character able to do the same thing (transform into stone or metal) or that some biomechanical Nightbane were just as easy to hurt as they were in their Façade (Metal Exoskeleton for example).

Yes, it is easy to say that these appearances only look like metal or stone but are still supernatural flesh and thus can be hurt as easily as any flesh... but that's always felt like a cop-out answer.

Not that A.R. will help versus darkblades, but it can matter versus most everything else.

Razorwing wrote:Sweet... it always bothered me that a Nightbane that had a morphus of living stone or metal didn't have an AR like a HU character able to do the same thing (transform into stone or metal) or that some biomechanical Nightbane were just as easy to hurt as they were in their Façade (Metal Exoskeleton for example).

Yes, it is easy to say that these appearances only look like metal or stone but are still supernatural flesh and thus can be hurt as easily as any flesh... but that's always felt like a cop-out answer.

And completely negated in later nightbane book where some morphus do give you AR(Survival Guide as example).
So yeah, it is a feature that needed to be upgraded since lot of time. Most player and GM just ignore it and assign some AR using common sense.

Glistam wrote:In my copy of the Nightbane main book, none of the Morpheus forms provide an armor rating of any sort. Even the tables printed in Between the Shadows and Nightlands fail to provide any sort of A.R. to any of the Morpheus forms. However, the Nightbane Survival Guide seems to suddenly offer some Morpheus forms which can have a natural A.R., or add to an existing A.R..

What I wonder is, have any of the older books been shadow updated in order to start providing a natural A.R. to certain traits? Or is it just the traits in the Nightbane Survival Guide for some reason which provide any sort of A.R.?

The 1st book to give NS a NAR was Rifter 20.
You have to remember that even if the NS's morphus "looks like armor or metal" it is still just the NS's flesh. Thus with the table in R20 there was no NAR for the NAR bonuses to be attached to. Thus giving the tables a "I did these tables for my own house rules but forgot to mod my submission to compile with the canon rules." flavor.

I always liked the rock paper scissors aspect though

Hounds were Rocks
Men with Guns were Scissors
Nightbane were Paper

Of course to be fair Night Bane are my least favorite aspect of the game LOL

Incriptus wrote:I always liked the rock paper scissors aspect though

Hounds were Rocks
Men with Guns were Scissors
Nightbane were Paper

Of course to be fair Night Bane are my least favorite aspect of the game LOL

What was your favorite out of curiosity?

I like the spook squad vs night lords

I play my nightbane game at a level between BTS and Nightbane as written

I am pretty sure I recall it being mentioned that the Nightbane's Morphus natural A.R. is essentially at the same "auto miss" (so a roll of 4 (or and under is a miss) and Morphus that add to it simply increase that so if you had a +2 you'd be at Natural A.R. 6. Its probably more relevant that they can have absurd dodge/parry/autododge bonuses. I do want to say I saw it once listed as a natural A.R. of 8 somewhere (original print of their appearance in conversion book? Errata later mentioned then redacted?) but my memory for written word especially numbers can be pretty lysdexic.

Seems only relevant for long drawn out fights vs an aggressor that has encountered the nightbane enough times to be impervious to their horror factor, or for those miscellaneous micrometeors from being in a wrong place at a wrong time(something the 'bane wouldn't suspect was coming unless a paranoid or overly considerate/highly sensitive type personality).

Gun toting spook squads no match for a 16+ horror factor hahah.

Though if you are not using HF I see no reason to use Natural A.R. either as both serve only a certain cinematic purpose.

Niji wrote:I am pretty sure I recall it being mentioned that the Nightbane's Morphus natural A.R. is essentially at the same "auto miss" (so a roll of 4 (or and under is a miss) and Morphus that add to it simply increase that so if you had a +2 you'd be at Natural A.R. 6. Its probably more relevant that they can have absurd dodge/parry/autododge bonuses. I do want to say I saw it once listed as a natural A.R. of 8 somewhere (original print of their appearance in conversion book? Errata later mentioned then redacted?) but my memory for written word especially numbers can be pretty lysdexic.

Seems only relevant for long drawn out fights vs an aggressor that has encountered the nightbane enough times to be impervious to their horror factor, or for those miscellaneous micrometeors from being in a wrong place at a wrong time(something the 'bane wouldn't suspect was coming unless a paranoid or overly considerate/highly sensitive type personality).

Gun toting spook squads no match for a 16+ horror factor hahah.

Though if you are not using HF I see no reason to use Natural A.R. either as both serve only a certain cinematic purpose.

HF only lasts for one round, and only, at worst, takes one action and your initiative.

The big advantage of AR is that it works on stuff that you cant parry (like bullets, energy blasts, or two many multiple attackers), stuff you cant dodge (like Attacks from the rear)

And Autododge is pretty hard to get in this game.

Which combine to make AR pretty useful (especially if you get several bonuses. AR of 6 or 8 isn't so great. An AR of 17 though is quite useful, especially against guns which get so few bonuses to strike)

eliakon wrote:

Niji wrote:I am pretty sure I recall it being mentioned that the Nightbane's Morphus natural A.R. is essentially at the same "auto miss" (so a roll of 4 (or and under is a miss) and Morphus that add to it simply increase that so if you had a +2 you'd be at Natural A.R. 6. Its probably more relevant that they can have absurd dodge/parry/autododge bonuses. I do want to say I saw it once listed as a natural A.R. of 8 somewhere (original print of their appearance in conversion book? Errata later mentioned then redacted?) but my memory for written word especially numbers can be pretty lysdexic.

Seems only relevant for long drawn out fights vs an aggressor that has encountered the nightbane enough times to be impervious to their horror factor, or for those miscellaneous micrometeors from being in a wrong place at a wrong time(something the 'bane wouldn't suspect was coming unless a paranoid or overly considerate/highly sensitive type personality).

Gun toting spook squads no match for a 16+ horror factor hahah.

Though if you are not using HF I see no reason to use Natural A.R. either as both serve only a certain cinematic purpose.

HF only lasts for one round, and only, at worst, takes one action and your initiative.

The big advantage of AR is that it works on stuff that you cant parry (like bullets, energy blasts, or two many multiple attackers), stuff you cant dodge (like Attacks from the rear)

And Autododge is pretty hard to get in this game.

Which combine to make AR pretty useful (especially if you get several bonuses. AR of 6 or 8 isn't so great. An AR of 17 though is quite useful, especially against guns which get so few bonuses to strike)

True at a high rank! Though in Nightbane absurdly high combat bonuses seem common place late game both for players and npcs as one would expect in a martial arts/prowess influenced supernatural thematic.


Of course since there isn't much option for natural A.R. adjustment on Morphus, you could craft a nightbane talent to fill the role. There is "always on" options that cost a fare amount of burned PPE (or chosen at appropriate level for free of course instead) that scale as you increase in experience, or inexpensive and inexpensive upkeep options that would be balanced if it required a certain investment per point of Natural AR *base 8-11 +2 PPE per additional natural AR(max 18), with a snazzy minute duration for 1 PPE per sustained minute, could be a flashy(well "shadowy" and cool) effect enemies will notice or much more subtle (the bane's morphus becomes more resilient and durable).

Talent is probably the best way to go for NPCs and most player character types and full freedom with creating your own (balanced) talents is one of the core design elements of the book/system and fairly important to character uniqueness, there is a myrid of thematic and really cool ways you could play the talent as well, it having a temporary duration seems more exciting and much more likely to not need to require your GM to edit it, but a permanent always on talent would have a lot cinematic influence on your character as well (especially if you are having trouble or otherwise uninterested with talents anyway and only picking them because you have to take the free ones!).

Morphus alteration wise Hmnn. I suppose from a certain perspective some good respectable ones might be if your Morphus is "clothed" say a flowing cloak or shielding wings or overly huge (red ?) scarf provides you with non-level scaling Natural A.R.

Just keep in mind that since Strikes that hit but are under Natural A.R. don't deal damage but might bounce off or ricochet and do some serious collateral damage, even if "strikes the ground" instead of bouncing randomly can still do significant collateral damage going through the floor/collapsing the foundation/striking that container of volitile chemicals nearby etc, depending on your house rules and GM's creativeness, it may not be quite how you want to avoid attacks(or exactly how). Its especially dangerous if you plan on using it to shield someone with your body and you get the angle wrong and it strikes you and BOUNCES OFF and hits them (dangerous for energy attacks but perhaps not so much kinetic ones). In these kind of cases cool stuff you can extend to offer deflective protection to others is nice (my flowing cloak or giant scarf mention).

Its good to think on it carefully if you'd want it as a Morphus Trait, or as a Talent.

I once played a nightbane with some great parry and made a Talent that pretty much was a modified "targeted deflection" spell, nothing like bouncing the enemies attack back at them instead! really fun too due to the potential risk excitement/danger and great fun of "Reflecting" an attack ! Super didn't protect from death like Natural A.R. does but was extremely fun/activedenfense way to play.

Simply put, there are some morphus features that should probably add to a Nightbane's natural AR... specifically ones where the 'bane changes into a different material or has some sort of armored appearance.

As for the idea of ricochets due to this being a problem... most of the time it is only so if you decide you want it to be. Most bullets are made out of a relatively soft material, thus it is perfectly reasonable for them to hit an "armored" 'bane and have their inertia dissipated as the projectile is deformed... dropping harmlessly to the ground rather than actually bouncing off. In most cases, this is usually what happens when bullets hit a hard target (stone, brick, metal)... it is only when they hit such a surface at an angle that the bullet is deflected as a ricochet.

If one wants to deal with such things (for a deadly and gritty setting), then by all means... sure, but it doesn't have to be that way.

AR is also a beast for simultaneous attacks.

Okay with new stuff having it so long as upgrades are given for the old stuff which also deserves it.

A mix of NAR and normal AR would also be good. Some of the stuff like adding body armor could give a mix, some low level of NAR while a higher degree of normal AR for bypassing the bonus SDC.