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Shifters "stealing" a Wizards summoned monsters?
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:00 pm
by rebis
Can a Shifter "steal" a Wizards summoned monsters? During a game of superheroes, A player who is a Shifter/Mutant came across a villain who is a Wizard who creates mummies to serve him. The Shifter has a M.A. 30. The Player believes that he can override the Wizard's control over his mummies. I personally think that this might be the case if the Wizard was defeated first and then the Shifter wanted to take control...
Re: Shifters "stealing" a Wizards summoned monsters?
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:48 pm
by Killer Cyborg
Nothing in canon about that working, not that I can recall anyway.
Re: Shifters "stealing" a Wizards summoned monsters?
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:43 am
by Prysus
rebis wrote:Can a Shifter "steal" a Wizards summoned monsters? During a game of superheroes, A player who is a Shifter/Mutant came across a villain who is a Wizard who creates mummies to serve him. The Shifter has a M.A. 30. The Player believes that he can override the Wizard's control over his mummies. I personally think that this might be the case if the Wizard was defeated first and then the Shifter wanted to take control...
Greetings and Salutations. That depends on how the Shifter is intending to "steal" the mummy (note: I'm going to address mummies specifically, as that's the example).
1: Is the player just trying to charm the Mummy with his M.A.? I doubt that's the case, but just throwing it out there. Mummies don't feel emotions (this is stated in the write-up), and I'd say that means you can't just charm them.
2: Is he just going for a straight battle of wills? This won't work, as a battle of wills should only (as far as I can tell) be involved during an actual summoning.
3: Is he trying to summon the mummy, then battle of will it? Again, I'd say no. First, I'm not sure that the Mummy is considered a lesser supernatural being. Second (and more importantly), in a battle of wills the summoned gets any bonuses to Save vs. Mind Control. In the Mummy write-up (PF2; page 211): "Magic charms, mind control, sleep ... do nothing at all!" This means that the mummy would be immune to the Mind Control/Battle of Wills, and the Summoner couldn't control it that way either.
Note: The "Mind Control" immunity is listed in PF2, but NOT found in RUE. However, I don't believe this is an intentional omission. The mind control immunity wasn't in the original RMB either. RUE seems to be an update of RMB (and others in the Rifts line), but doesn't always update from the OTHER lines. An example of this would be the correction Range regarding Carpet of Adhesion that's found in PF2, but NOT in RMB or RUE. So though RUE is newer, it doesn't always have the newest corrections (as odd as that sounds).
In the end, the answer remains no (it won't work), but for a variety of reasons. Hope that helps. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Re: Shifters "stealing" a Wizards summoned monsters?
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:18 am
by eliakon
rebis wrote:Can a Shifter "steal" a Wizards summoned monsters? During a game of superheroes, A player who is a Shifter/Mutant came across a villain who is a Wizard who creates mummies to serve him. The Shifter has a M.A. 30. The Player believes that he can override the Wizard's control over his mummies. I personally think that this might be the case if the Wizard was defeated first and then the Shifter wanted to take control...
A summoned monster possibly, but a mummy or zombie is more like a created item than a summoned monster. A Shifter can no more 'steal' a mummy than they could 'steal' control of another mages talisman, or use their MA to command the other mages shirt.....
Re: Shifters "stealing" a Wizards summoned monsters?
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:31 pm
by Nekira Sudacne
rebis wrote:Can a Shifter "steal" a Wizards summoned monsters? During a game of superheroes, A player who is a Shifter/Mutant came across a villain who is a Wizard who creates mummies to serve him. The Shifter has a M.A. 30. The Player believes that he can override the Wizard's control over his mummies. I personally think that this might be the case if the Wizard was defeated first and then the Shifter wanted to take control...
Mummies are animated dead, not supernatural beings, as such they are not valid targets for shifters to control anyway. not unless he just gets the create mummy spell to make some himself.
Re: Shifters "stealing" a Wizards summoned monsters?
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:31 pm
by Tor
Although there is nothing protecting a summoned minion from being summoned from someone else (far as I know) to summon a particular individual rather than a random member of a race you'd need to find out their true name, I think.
Which in the case of demons/dyvalians would mean you pretty much already control them...
Unless the wizard also knew the true name in which case... unclear about what happens when there are 2 name-knowers.