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The Rose and Thorny Stem & Dripping Blood tattoo (BoM p241) is equal to the invocation Heal Wounds (BoM p106, or RUE p208). However, Heal Wounds restores 3D6 SDC and 1D6 HP and makes no mention of it's affect on MDC creatures. Considering the cost of 30 PPE for the tattoo, I expected it to work on a T-man / Undead Slayer. But if it doesn't, that leaves T-men with only the Phoenix tattoo for healing (which has a wicked high cost of 124 PPE).

Anybody have a reference that says Heal Wounds works on MDC folks?

This is a stretch, but the 7th level spell Heal Self, heals 3d6 sdc and 1d6 hp OR 1d4 MD; so you might be able to argue for the tattoo to heal 1d4 MD based on the Heal Self doing something similar, but that's all I have

As a rule, most healing magic sucks.

One of the first house rules we made when we started playing Rifts was that if a spell heals HP, then it heals the same amount of MDC. So if a spell heals 3d6 SDC and 1d6HP, then it would heal 1d6MDC.

That makes things tolerable.

--flatline

Can't recall anything about the spell, although I do recall the Syvan having an improved version of bio-regeneration which restored MDC for them.

Have a little perspective, you're looking for magical healing that restores the equivalent of thousands of SDC. The rose tattoo only seems trivial and grossly expensive because you're used to dealing with MDC values. Most Atlanteans are still SDC beings and it can be a lifesaver for them.

It also makes the high MDC of those T-Men more understandable. Yeah they have loads of MDC....but if they cant heal it back easily......

I assume they still get the standard MDC per day detailed in CB1, I can't remember the exact... I want to say 2d6... which is more than the amount of HP that normal humans can heal per day.

CB1R indicates that creatures of magic heal MDC like hit points, and does not appear to go into greater detail. I may be overlooking it. That would allow a t-man to recover 2 MDC per day and 4 MDC per day, after the first two days, with professional care. However, I think this is commonly interpreted to mean that effects which cause HP to heal will allow a magically empowered creature to recover MDC of an equivalent value. It still doesn't make the rose tattoo super useful for t-men, but it's better than a kick in the head.

Its a life-saver for True Atlanteans who aren't T-Men. Regular T-As get up to 6 tattoos before becoming a T-Man and if they adventure then the Rose is definitely a good one for them to get eventually. IMHO

Most of the Gm's I've played my T man with just ruled that the Rose tattoo headled 2d6 MDC

Mechghost wrote:Its a life-saver for True Atlanteans who aren't T-Men. Regular T-As get up to 6 tattoos before becoming a T-Man and if they adventure then the Rose is definitely a good one for them to get eventually. IMHO

Part of the challenge is that for a non-T-Man, the cost doubles to 60 PPE.

Side Note 1: Draught of Health - Nazcan Line Magic (W9:SA2) (or functional equivalent/variant) on an MDC (or even indestructible) 'shot glass'. Basic PPE to MDC healing ratio is fairly high (and should be continuously re-usable by any/all in need with PPE expenditure).

Once created should be functional akin to a TW/EW device.

Side Note 2: Reconstruction - Biomancy (W32p106) for 1000s of MDC beings to heal. Do the around the world journey of what a level 2 Plant Shaman can really do (W15). Keep in mind the ridiculous unlimited access nature of that general category of spirit endowed spell access (see Spirit Man-Monster). Toss in a huge PPE total, particularly with a simple functional twist to the PPE from the environment ability and the obscenely easy to utilize (and retain huge amounts of PPE for a long time) via Circle Dance - Nature Magic (W18,BoM). Can be cheaply prompted via sufficient prep use of Make Honey & Syrup Candy (W18,BoM) to prompt a festive atmosphere.

Just from stuff from some shelved/unposted NPC articles.

Mack wrote:

Mechghost wrote:Its a life-saver for True Atlanteans who aren't T-Men. Regular T-As get up to 6 tattoos before becoming a T-Man and if they adventure then the Rose is definitely a good one for them to get eventually. IMHO

Part of the challenge is that for a non-T-Man, the cost doubles to 60 PPE.

I normally house rule that for TA's and Chiang-Ku dragons, since they are so adept with tattoos, they pay the normal cost and not double cost. I didn't invent this, most of the GM's I have played with run it this way as well.

Tor wrote:I assume they still get the standard MDC per day detailed in CB1, I can't remember the exact... I want to say 2d6... which is more than the amount of HP that normal humans can heal per day.

it is 2d6, and it's listed in CB1r as well as the original... but I'd have to spend some time digging up the exact page number. it's in the general information relating to converting monsters to MDC as I recall.

Page 56. Under the Monster M.D.C. Conversions heading.

random_username wrote:Side Note 1: Draught of Health - Nazcan Line Magic (W9:SA2) (or functional equivalent/variant) on an MDC (or even indestructible) 'shot glass'. Basic PPE to MDC healing ratio is fairly high (and should be continuously re-usable by any/all in need with PPE expenditure).

Once created should be functional akin to a TW/EW device.

Side Note 2: Reconstruction - Biomancy (W32p106) for 1000s of MDC beings to heal. Do the around the world journey of what a level 2 Plant Shaman can really do (W15). Keep in mind the ridiculous unlimited access nature of that general category of spirit endowed spell access (see Spirit Man-Monster). Toss in a huge PPE total, particularly with a simple functional twist to the PPE from the environment ability and the obscenely easy to utilize (and retain huge amounts of PPE for a long time) via Circle Dance - Nature Magic (W18,BoM). Can be cheaply prompted via sufficient prep use of Make Honey & Syrup Candy (W18,BoM) to prompt a festive atmosphere.

Just from stuff from some shelved/unposted NPC articles.

Yeah there is a lot of decent healing magic out there....especially if you get into the more esoteric branches of magic .... but that doesn't help the T-Man. And considering the rarity of most of those spells..... (Line magic is practically unknown in the wider universe, Biomancy is restricted to a handful of races and classes...all of whom are so anti-tech that the likelihood of them working on a TW device is remote to say the least. Nature Magic is only in Russia and officially only open to 2-3 classes....the list goes on)

eliakon wrote:Yeah there is a lot of decent healing magic out there....especially if you get into the more esoteric branches of magic .... but that doesn't help the T-Man.

Actually a Draught of Health container even in its most basic form is extremely plausible. Ironically a T-Man would likely be amongst one of the most plausible to have one of these outside of the Nazcan empire citizens itself.

eliakon wrote: And considering the rarity of most of those spells..... (Line magic is practically unknown in the wider universe, Biomancy is restricted to a handful of races and classes...all of whom are so anti-tech that the likelihood of them working on a TW device is remote to say the least.

Check the first gem type listing for Techno-Wizard items in the RUE.

eliakon wrote: Nature Magic is only in Russia and officially only open to 2-3 classes.

Nope. As immediately apparent by checking out the earlier posting.

eliakon wrote: ....the list goes on)

Do your own research dude.

The fundamental reason for the previous post was simply several hints so that folks could go work out the details for themselves as is common with most of my posts. Since this is presumably is a good portion of the fun/challenge for folks its the most ideal approach.

random_username wrote:

eliakon wrote:Yeah there is a lot of decent healing magic out there....especially if you get into the more esoteric branches of magic .... but that doesn't help the T-Man.

Actually a Draught of Health container even in its most basic form is extremely plausible. Ironically a T-Man would likely be amongst one of the most plausible to have one of these outside of the Nazcan empire citizens itself.

Why would they be likely to have an ultra rare magic item from a ultra rare magic that is almost unknown in the wider megaverse?

Draught of Health can be cast to make a potion, to make a line drawing that recasts it multiple times you would have to use the secret permenance drawing....now if your going to assume that items that cost permanent PPE is a common thing.....

This is important because it mentions that drawing the pattern permanently simply removes the drawing time from the casting. You still have to cast the spell. So just drawing a DoH pattern on a vessel would not allow anyone to use it as a magic item, just allow a line drawer to cast the spell instantly instead of taking the time to draw the lines. To make a pattern that can be reused by anyone requires the permanence drawing.

random_username wrote:

eliakon wrote: And considering the rarity of most of those spells..... (Line magic is practically unknown in the wider universe, Biomancy is restricted to a handful of races and classes...all of whom are so anti-tech that the likelihood of them working on a TW device is remote to say the least.

Check the first gem type listing for Techno-Wizard items in the RUE.

I am quite familiar with the gem list
The fact that it is physically possible does not mean its likely.
ALL Biomancers are anti-tech, and the Native American Shamans are also anti tech. Thus finding a caster of Biomancy that will help make a technological artifact seems to me to be remote (unless of course you just ignore the actual descriptions of the classes and magic.....)

random_username wrote:

eliakon wrote: Nature Magic is only in Russia and officially only open to 2-3 classes.

Nope. As immediately apparent by checking out the earlier posting.

Officially using the Rifts rules it can only be learned by Old Believers, Russian Ley Line Walkers, Spirit Man Monsters, and possibly a mystic. Many GMs make a ruling that it can be learned by others....but officially no

random_username wrote:

eliakon wrote: ....the list goes on)

Do your own research dude.

There is no need to be insulting. I HAVE done my research. A lot of it. That is why I was able to make the informed observations I did.

random_username wrote:The fundamental reason for the previous post was simply several hints so that folks could go work out the details for themselves as is common with most of my posts. Since this is presumably is a good portion of the fun/challenge for folks its the most ideal approach.

Your previous post was
1) totally off topic (If you want to start a thread on magical healing go right ahead....but don't hijack a thread on a specific Tattoo for it.)
2) missing various facts that were germaine to the subject (like who can actually learn the listed spells....)
3) in some cases factually wrong (like in how the line drawings actually work)

That's strike three dude.

I don't speak troll.

Self-hate projection is bad. Seek help.