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Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:15 pm
by Lenwen
H.U. Sonic Speed super power, running at a speed of 700mph .. the question involves this.

Spugorthian Muscle Boot = Doubles the running speed. (700-1400 mph)

That super powered runner, now doing 1400 mph, Then gets 1 more Bio-Wizard modification Spine Twister, (it also doubles the running speed.)

Now for the question..

Does it Add 700 to the 1400, or (since the 1400 is now the natural running speed) is the 1400 doubled to 2400 ?

Whats your guys take on it? I did the 1400x2 rout personally, I'm just curious about your guys opinions.

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:18 pm
by Morik
Be a good GM and don't allow any of the modifications to work on this mutant/aberration.

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:22 pm
by Lenwen
Morik wrote:Be a good GM and don't allow any of the modifications to work on this mutant/aberration.

Your thinking of the tattoos (which do work on some mutants even.) Bio Wizardry works on anyone unless the racial limitations say it does not like the True Atlantean and Hawk-Orl ? (sp?)

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:29 pm
by Bill
Multiple doubling effects for damage add +1 to the multiplier rather than stack. I might go that route, letting the player hit 2100 mph; which is just over Mach 2. Though to be honest, I'd probably rule that the super power is incompatible with magic. Different power sources don't play well together in the setting in general.

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:57 pm
by Morik
Lenwen wrote:
Morik wrote:Be a good GM and don't allow any of the modifications to work on this mutant/aberration.

Your thinking of the tattoos (which do work on some mutants even.) Bio Wizardry works on anyone unless the racial limitations say it does not like the True Atlantean and Hawk-Orl ? (sp?)


No, I'm saying the science/magic is used to augment a subject within normal genetic spectrum parameters. Any major deviation would make the process fail and any symbiotes/parasites would not see the host valid for merger/assimilation.

If there was a large amount of people with this same deviation, I'm sure the High Lords could then do years of experimentation on them. After trial and error they could then perfect the biowizard baths to make the process stick to this new genetic baseline. This could take several generations of High Lords to get the process right.

This stops the munchkin train before it even leaves the station.

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:35 pm
by Glistam
Those enhancements only affect his regular speed score, not his superpower. His "Spd" does in fact get multiplied, but it won't matter once he uses his power. Also, it would be ×3, not ×4.

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:41 pm
by Tor
I might be remembering wrong, but wasn't there some note somewhere about speed multipliers only applying to the attribute score and not fixed speeds given from powers like ExtSpd or Sonic?

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:05 pm
by Lenwen
Glistam and Tor, you seem to be thinking along same lines, so my question then becomes if you can remember would you guys mind posting where you came to such a conclusion ?

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:15 pm
by Blue_Lion
How about something like a MDC bike. If it multiples a person running speed it should not mater if it was a fixed amount or a stat for mechanics. There is nothing I know in the rules that block it other than talk of terrain affecting movement in the original vampire kingdoms. Just because you or your vehicle has the ability to run at a set speed does not mean that you will be able in most cases travel at top speed.

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:42 pm
by Tor
Lenwen wrote:if you can remember would you guys mind posting where you came to such a conclusion ?

Can't seem to find it in the main book, wondering if it might've been in GM's guide, Rifter FAQ or online errata.

Might've been in association with something like how it halved speed for APS metal.

Easy combo would be Sonic Speed + Vibration, actually many speed-doublers out there in terms of super-powers. Even if I could remember why I'm thinking this for powers, dunno if it'd apply to bio-wizardry.

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:01 pm
by The Ruiner
Was it under the Mega -Hero section of HU? I seem to remember something about it there.

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:43 am
by H.P. Hovercraft
Morik wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Morik wrote:Be a good GM and don't allow any of the modifications to work on this mutant/aberration.

Your thinking of the tattoos (which do work on some mutants even.) Bio Wizardry works on anyone unless the racial limitations say it does not like the True Atlantean and Hawk-Orl ? (sp?)


No, I'm saying the science/magic is used to augment a subject within normal genetic spectrum parameters. Any major deviation would make the process fail and any symbiotes/parasites would not see the host valid for merger/assimilation.

If there was a large amount of people with this same deviation, I'm sure the High Lords could then do years of experimentation on them. After trial and error they could then perfect the biowizard baths to make the process stick to this new genetic baseline. This could take several generations of High Lords to get the process right.

This stops the munchkin train before it even leaves the station.

I agree with this ^^^ .........it makes the most sense. Bio-Wizardry and symbiotes are designed (and written) to function with the base-line stock of Rifts Earth....
..........they weren't written with other settings in mind (like HU).

That being said, I know you like mixing you peanut butter and chocolate (it can be a tasty combination), but the rules for ANY kind of multiplier is as follows:

Statistic is doubled = Stat x2
Statistic is doubled & then doubled again = Stat x3
Statistic is doubled & then doubled &then doubled again = Stat x 4
(etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum)

So, super-speedster w/ muscle boot would be speed x2.
Super-speedster w/ muscle boot & boots of fleetness would be speed x3...............not x4
Super-speedster w/ muscle boots, boots of fleetness & cast w/ Fleet Feet spell would be x4....................not x8.

Multipliers are there in the FAQ if you take the time to look for them (often it takes a LOT of time), but overall, I'd agree with Morik that these types of organisms were meant to co-habitat with other more base-line sentient beings than with the anomalies that are 'supes.'

But if stacking multipliers is your game (and it can be fun), the method I mentioned is how it goes.

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:45 am
by Library Ogre
I'd be inclined to say that it triples his speed... it adds his full speed to his full speed, and then adds it again.

Once he's doing 2100mph at ground level, he's got other issues.

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:48 pm
by Prysus
Lenwen wrote:H.U. Sonic Speed super power, running at a speed of 700mph .. the question involves this.

Spugorthian Muscle Boot = Doubles the running speed. (700-1400 mph)

That super powered runner, now doing 1400 mph, Then gets 1 more Bio-Wizard modification Spine Twister, (it also doubles the running speed.)

Now for the question..

Does it Add 700 to the 1400, or (since the 1400 is now the natural running speed) is the 1400 doubled to 2400 ?

Whats your guys take on it? I did the 1400x2 rout personally, I'm just curious about your guys opinions.

Greetings and Salutations. Just a couple notes...

1: Muscle Boot requires two used together to double running speed. This won't affect the situation much (unless you have a limit to the number of Bio-Wizard enhancements).

2: By a strict reading of Spinetwister (only reading what's written and not what it might actually intend), it says it doubles the "Spd attribute." Sonic Speed (super power) doesn't actually provide a new Speed attribute. While it provides a faster running speed, the Speed attribute (rolled up during character creation and possibly augmented by various skills and other abilities) remains unchanged. This is not reading anything more into what is actually written. Note: Muscle Boots specify "running speed" in the bonus, which could still benefit the super power.

3: If I was allowing both, and being generous with my interpretation, and rule the x3 same as many others in this thread.

That's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys.
:|

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:01 pm
by Tor
Bio-wizardry can give additional limbs, could you get a pair of muscle boots per each pair?

Re: Super Speed question ?

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:16 pm
by eliakon
Tor wrote:Bio-wizardry can give additional limbs, could you get a pair of muscle boots per each pair?

While 2 boots give a boost there is nothing that says that you would get a bigger boost for more (or even that you would get a full boost with less than 1 boot per foot)