Half-invid

[Colonel Wolfe]

At the end of LLA, we see that Lancer and Sera are involved in a relationship, Lancer completly abandoned the female cover-persona and has performed under his real name, Scott has yet to leav for SSL (and Marlene/Ariel hasn't got her TSC boobjob yet), Lunk's Epic beard...
Lancer retreats to a cabin and we see Sera and it looks like she has a bun in the oven.

given the abilities Ariel can manifest as a Human form Invid, its not a streach to think many of the these invid who stayed on earth have similar powers.
would these abilities continue in offspring?
Sera is pregnant with a hybrid,could it inherit powers similar to the ones her Aunt (and mother) have?
on a side note, if the invid genome is dominate, could the invid domination of the earth be but a generations in the future

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is no text covering this in both 1st ed and 2nd ed RT.
Thus it is up to the GMs of the individual games to decide such things.

[Colonel Wolfe]

There is no text covering this in both 1st ed and 2nd ed RT.
Thus it is up to the GMs of the individual games to decide such things.

Well, even rules that are explicitly given in the book are up to the Gm to decide to use....
but Genesis pits gave some hints under the invid experiment section how the process might turn out.
these questions came to me when I was browsing the "Lancer is gay" topic... it reminded me that its perfectly canon he's not, as he having a baby with a Female invid princess...

[SRoss]

There is no text covering this in both 1st ed and 2nd ed RT.
Thus it is up to the GMs of the individual games to decide such things.

Well, even rules that are explicitly given in the book are up to the Gm to decide to use....
but Genesis pits gave some hints under the invid experiment section how the process might turn out.
these questions came to me when I was browsing the "Lancer is gay" topic... it reminded me that its perfectly canon he's not, as he having a baby with a Female invid princess...

I suppose you could use the Invid/Human Hybrid out of the New Generation book as a guide line.

[Lt Gargoyle]

i do not allow any pc to have access to instant teleport in robotech. hell even in rift the teleport spells have better constraint.

that said yes i think some of the abilities would pass down with the off spring, however if it continued down the line would depend on how if it bred with other invid hybrids, humans or full blooded invid.

[Colonel Wolfe]

i do not allow any pc to have access to instant teleport in robotech. hell even in rift the teleport spells have better constraint.

that said yes i think some of the abilities would pass down with the off spring, however if it continued down the line would depend on how if it bred with other invid hybrids, humans or full blooded invid.

Instant teleport is great as a plot device for the movie. Getting ariel the 230,000+ miles to the moon for the plot requires both an ability to teleport, and an boob-job.
for players of Human-Invid, I'd think that power was limited to those she elevated to King/Queen status (Corg, Ariel, Sera) and not the run of the mill troopers.
I would definitely limit the teleporting to the moon ability....

[SRoss]

The Hybrid in the New Generation book had a much more limited form of teleportation. The kid would probably have to grow into it or something.

[taalismn]

The Hybrid in the New Generation book had a much more limited form of teleportation. The kid would probably have to grow into it or something.

Gonna make the rebellious teenage years interesting.
"Oh damn, Mom just followed us here! Dad might take a hour sub-orbital depending on how fast he can lift off-"
"You're right; you DO have gunship parents."

[Lt Gargoyle]

i do not allow any pc to have access to instant teleport in robotech. hell even in rift the teleport spells have better constraint.

that said yes i think some of the abilities would pass down with the off spring, however if it continued down the line would depend on how if it bred with other invid hybrids, humans or full blooded invid.

Instant teleport is great as a plot device for the movie. Getting ariel the 230,000+ miles to the moon for the plot requires both an ability to teleport, and an boob-job.
for players of Human-Invid, I'd think that power was limited to those she elevated to King/Queen status (Corg, Ariel, Sera) and not the run of the mill troopers.
I would definitely limit the teleporting to the moon ability....

The books have all three of them As Princess and Prince status and I do not ever recall the Regess elevation them to any higher state in any of the shows.
Its a fail safe that allows them to do stupid things in the game because they can just teleport away. But this does make me think of some of the older threads where people complained that the Sentinel races should not have magic or psionics. But when the Invid have the ability to teleport its ok. Just found that humorous.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is no text covering this in both 1st ed and 2nd ed RT.
Thus it is up to the GMs of the individual games to decide such things.

Well, even rules that are explicitly given in the book are up to the Gm to decide to use....
...snip

The reason I said it the way I did was to indicate that the subject of offspring from invid-human pairings is wholly in the realm of GM discretion.

I suppose you could use the Invid/Human Hybrid out of the New Generation book as a guide line.

I take it you mean the "human form Invid", otherwise known as invid princesses, princes, and Simulagents. Cause there is the part where there is no text covering offspring from invid-human pairings, AKA invid-human hybrids. There is that the human form invid would be the ones doing any of the crossbreeding with any of the other humanoids (H/T/Z) living on the earth.
-------------------------------

Any text covering said offspring would of been covered in a gamebook set after the SoL. And the only one that covers said time period so far is the RT 2nd ed core book.

None of the other time periods covered by the current gamebooks would not allow the stat'ing out of Invid-other (H/T/Z) children. Even them being stat'ed out on the Core book was not really feasible because such children would still be too young. Newborns to maybe a year old.

-------------------------------
In the game If been playing in there has been two invid-other pairing. And the GM is making his own choices. However, said choices are complicated by that all the individuals involved have been altered in some way, in varying extents by genesis pits. So far the choice for one of the pairings has been interesting. While the other has not proceeded long enough for any effects to be known but by the GM.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I suppose you could use the Invid/Human Hybrid out of the New Generation book as a guide line.

I take it you mean the "human form Invid", otherwise known as invid princesses, princes, and Simulagents. Cause there is the part where there is no text covering offspring from invid-human pairings, AKA invid-human hybrids. There is that the human form invid would be the ones doing any of the crossbreeding with any of the other humanoids (H/T/Z) living on the earth.
-------------------------------

I think he means the "True Invid Human Hybrid" listed on page 31 of the New Generation book. While its listed as an experimental outcome, it is a canon set of stats for a Human-Invid Hybri, and a good starting point for making home-brewed stats.

[Colonel Wolfe]

[quote="Lt Gargoyle"
The books have all three of them As Princess and Prince status and I do not ever recall the Regess elevation them to any higher state in any of the shows.[/quote] My mistake, I meant to say Prince/Princess status.
it is unknown if any of the other Human-Invid are of the same caliber as Sera/Ariel & Corg.

[ShadowLogan]

it is unknown if any of the other Human-Invid are of the same caliber as Sera/Ariel & Corg.

Well from the show, not 2E RPG, only the chicks are "demonstrated "to have "teleportation". Though aside from these 3 (4 if you count Regis), there is only one more human-form Invid actually depicted IINM and he gets killed off in Ep83 by Rand in the Beta. It might explain Corg's survival at Denver, but isn't depicted as teleporting. Personally I'm more in favor of the teleporting being a remote technology they access than an actual ability, the Invid do have telepathy and cybernetics (Dusty).

I suppose you could use the Invid/Human Hybrid out of the New Generation book as a guide line.

Personally I wouldn't unless some genetic engineering is known to be involved. If its all "natural conception", I would go with a 50% chance for inheriting various game attributes and powers from the mother or father. Since there would be no guarantee that off-spring automatically get the best genes possible. That's just not how sexual reproduction works at the genetic level.

[Colonel Wolfe]

it is unknown if any of the other Human-Invid are of the same caliber as Sera/Ariel & Corg.

Well from the show, not 2E RPG, only the chicks are "demonstrated "to have "teleportation". Though aside from these 3 (4 if you count Regis), there is only one more human-form Invid actually depicted IINM and he gets killed off in Ep83 by Rand in the Beta. It might explain Corg's survival at Denver, but isn't depicted as teleporting. Personally I'm more in favor of the teleporting being a remote technology they access than an actual ability, the Invid do have telepathy and cybernetics (Dusty).
True, beyond Marlene's ability in TSC, Sera is shown Teleporting into the Regesis's chamber: https://youtu.be/W9txrDGHWnc?t=1h10m
There is little reason to doubt Corg would have similar abilities as he was transmuted in the same spell that made Sera.
I'd believe it was remote tech going only by the 85 episodes, but the events in TSC show this is an Inante ability in Ariel, as she wasn't exactly swimming in invid tech, and already displayed an ability to become intangible and fly.

[Jefffar]

No longer core canon, but in the McKinney novels Marlene was uplifted in part through an infusion of human DNA, so she could be considered part human already..

[Colonel Wolfe]

No longer core canon, but in the McKinney novels Marlene was uplifted in part through an infusion of human DNA, so she could be considered part human already..

well, it's canon that they are "Human" and have the same DNA as us... as Lancer and Sera are kinda having a baby....

[SRoss]

I suppose you could use the Invid/Human Hybrid out of the New Generation book as a guide line.

I take it you mean the "human form Invid", otherwise known as invid princesses, princes, and Simulagents. Cause there is the part where there is no text covering offspring from invid-human pairings, AKA invid-human hybrids. There is that the human form invid would be the ones doing any of the crossbreeding with any of the other humanoids (H/T/Z) living on the earth.

Actually, I was referring to to the Invid/Human Hybrid from the section on Invid Genetic experiments. In the book, that one is described as being a human altered to be 50% Invid.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I suppose you could use the Invid/Human Hybrid out of the New Generation book as a guide line.

I take it you mean the "human form Invid", otherwise known as invid princesses, princes, and Simulagents. Cause there is the part where there is no text covering offspring from invid-human pairings, AKA invid-human hybrids. There is that the human form invid would be the ones doing any of the crossbreeding with any of the other humanoids (H/T/Z) living on the earth.

Actually, I was referring to to the Invid/Human Hybrid from the section on Invid Genetic experiments. In the book, that one is described as being a human altered to be 50% Invid.

I will have to agree with your assessment, that the "invid gene experiment "True human-invid hybrid"" would be the place to start if a GM were to develop stat's for children from invid-(H/T/Z) matings.
------
Having said that I would also say that Invid-Human pairing (opposed to I-T & I-Z pairings) would would run the least risk of having children that would have roll on any of the random mutation tables. (RT, HU, Kittenstomp's Tabels of DOOM, 'where-ever', etc...)

[eliakon]

I suppose you could use the Invid/Human Hybrid out of the New Generation book as a guide line.

I take it you mean the "human form Invid", otherwise known as invid princesses, princes, and Simulagents. Cause there is the part where there is no text covering offspring from invid-human pairings, AKA invid-human hybrids. There is that the human form invid would be the ones doing any of the crossbreeding with any of the other humanoids (H/T/Z) living on the earth.

Actually, I was referring to to the Invid/Human Hybrid from the section on Invid Genetic experiments. In the book, that one is described as being a human altered to be 50% Invid.

Which to me would be a perfect place to find the stats for.....a child that is 50% human and 50% invid......

[ShadowLogan]

There is little reason to doubt Corg would have similar abilities as he was transmuted in the same spell that made Sera.
I'd believe it was remote tech going only by the 85 episodes, but the events in TSC show this is an Inante ability in Ariel, as she wasn't exactly swimming in invid tech, and already displayed an ability to become intangible and fly.

That doesn't mean the Corg and Sera would have the same powers. It is possible that Invid are like the Simvan in Rifts or Garudans in RT:Sent (1E), where powers are dictated by gender. After all neither Corg nor Ep83 pilot are shown to teleport.

It might still be tech, it really depends the range of the technology. Though yes TSC (and 2E RPG) make it out as an innate ability.

Which to me would be a perfect place to find the stats for.....a child that is 50% human and 50% invid......

No it wouldn't. Said example is the result of a controlled genetic manipulation/alteration and not random genetics by natural means.

[eliakon]

Which to me would be a perfect place to find the stats for.....a child that is 50% human and 50% invid......

No it wouldn't. Said example is the result of a controlled genetic manipulation/alteration and not random genetics by natural means.

True....but it is something that is half invid and half human....which means that its stats are that of something that is a hybrid of the two.
A child of an Invid and a Human would be....half invid and half human, and a hybrid of the two....

So yeah, its a good base line for said stats.

The fact that one is made artificially and one is made naturally doesn't mean that they have to have different stats.

[Zer0 Kay]

There is no text covering this in both 1st ed and 2nd ed RT.
Thus it is up to the GMs of the individual games to decide such things.

Well, even rules that are explicitly given in the book are up to the Gm to decide to use....
but Genesis pits gave some hints under the invid experiment section how the process might turn out.
these questions came to me when I was browsing the "Lancer is gay" topic... it reminded me that its perfectly canon he's not, as he having a baby with a Female invid princess...

Gonna start this again? Having a child with a female does not restrict one from being gay. Many gay or lesbian people have children in a heterosexual relationship either because they have not "discovered" they're homosexuality or because they are purposefully living a straight life for various reasons. Like producing a child is a litmus test for homosexuality

EDIT: This is not the thread to be discussing the sexual orientation of fictional characters. Keep this on topic. ~Jefffar

[eliakon]

There is no text covering this in both 1st ed and 2nd ed RT.
Thus it is up to the GMs of the individual games to decide such things.

Well, even rules that are explicitly given in the book are up to the Gm to decide to use....
but Genesis pits gave some hints under the invid experiment section how the process might turn out.
these questions came to me when I was browsing the "Lancer is gay" topic... it reminded me that its perfectly canon he's not, as he having a baby with a Female invid princess...

Gonna start this again? Having a child with a female does not restrict one from being gay. Many gay or lesbian people have children in a heterosexual relationship either because they have not "discovered" they're homosexuality or because they are purposefully living a straight life for various reasons. Like producing a child is a litmus test for homosexuality

Lets not hijack the thread with random unsubstantiated fandom wars like (And I consider sexuality of characters to be fandom wars)
If people want to have this argument please take it to PMs or another thread.

[Zer0 Kay]

There is little reason to doubt Corg would have similar abilities as he was transmuted in the same spell that made Sera.
I'd believe it was remote tech going only by the 85 episodes, but the events in TSC show this is an Inante ability in Ariel, as she wasn't exactly swimming in invid tech, and already displayed an ability to become intangible and fly.

That doesn't mean the Corg and Sera would have the same powers. It is possible that Invid are like the Simvan in Rifts or Garudans in RT:Sent (1E), where powers are dictated by gender. After all neither Corg nor Ep83 pilot are shown to teleport.

It might still be tech, it really depends the range of the technology. Though yes TSC (and 2E RPG) make it out as an innate ability.

Which to me would be a perfect place to find the stats for.....a child that is 50% human and 50% invid......

No it wouldn't. Said example is the result of a controlled genetic manipulation/alteration and not random genetics by natural means.

IIRC, The regent also did not teleport, though it would have been greatly helpful in many situations AND he was split directly from the Regis so should be far more powerful than Ariel.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Which to me would be a perfect place to find the stats for.....a child that is 50% human and 50% invid......

No it wouldn't. Said example is the result of a controlled genetic manipulation/alteration and not random genetics by natural means.

True....but it is something that is half invid and half human....which means that its stats are that of something that is a hybrid of the two.
A child of an Invid and a Human would be....half invid and half human, and a hybrid of the two....

So yeah, its a good base line for said stats.

The fact that one is made artificially and one is made naturally doesn't mean that they have to have different stats.

I agree, no it wouldn't. You are taking perfect controlled genetic engineering to make the perfect specimen who has those abilities. In an uncontrolled environment you would not get the best perfect results.

[glitterboy2098]

i'd say it would be better to look at the examples of human/zent or human/tyrolian hybrids in terms of stats.. compare the alien parent's RCC stats to the resulting hybrid's stats, to get an idea of how to translate the royal prince/princess/simulagent RCC.

as far as powers go.. who knows. though if you give them the teleport, i'd restrict a hybrid to the short range one. leave the "superl ong range" version the humanform invid get after the regis leaves to the full bloods.

[eliakon]

Which to me would be a perfect place to find the stats for.....a child that is 50% human and 50% invid......

No it wouldn't. Said example is the result of a controlled genetic manipulation/alteration and not random genetics by natural means.

True....but it is something that is half invid and half human....which means that its stats are that of something that is a hybrid of the two.
A child of an Invid and a Human would be....half invid and half human, and a hybrid of the two....

So yeah, its a good base line for said stats.

The fact that one is made artificially and one is made naturally doesn't mean that they have to have different stats.

I agree, no it wouldn't. You are taking perfect controlled genetic engineering to make the perfect specimen who has those abilities. In an uncontrolled environment you would not get the best perfect results.

The genesis pit experiments though ARE NOT 'perfect specimens' they are examples of various experiments. If they were some sort of finalized end product super weapon sure I could buy this.....but these stats are for random experimental kit-bash mixes and its the same stats for every example of them not just the stats of one exemplar but every hybrid, ever, has the same stats.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Which to me would be a perfect place to find the stats for.....a child that is 50% human and 50% invid......

No it wouldn't. Said example is the result of a controlled genetic manipulation/alteration and not random genetics by natural means.

True....but it is something that is half invid and half human....which means that its stats are that of something that is a hybrid of the two.
A child of an Invid and a Human would be....half invid and half human, and a hybrid of the two....

So yeah, its a good base line for said stats.

The fact that one is made artificially and one is made naturally doesn't mean that they have to have different stats.

I agree, no it wouldn't. You are taking perfect controlled genetic engineering to make the perfect specimen who has those abilities. In an uncontrolled environment you would not get the best perfect results.

The genesis pit experiments though ARE NOT 'perfect specimens' they are examples of various experiments. If they were some sort of finalized end product super weapon sure I could buy this.....but these stats are for random experimental kit-bash mixes and its the same stats for every example of them not just the stats of one exemplar but every hybrid, ever, has the same stats.

Science is not always gonna have the same result and you can use it in your game and it will be allowed. But the Scientist of the Invid are working for a result they want. Its your game. And its not worth arguing over. I personally will not allow PCs to have the ability to teleport. To me that was a plot device for the Movie and it was really a stupid one at that.

I am curious to see how they do the other alien races. And who knows maybe in a couple years we'll even get that book as promised.

[ShadowLogan]

True....but it is something that is half invid and half human....which means that its stats are that of something that is a hybrid of the two.
A child of an Invid and a Human would be....half invid and half human, and a hybrid of the two....

So yeah, its a good base line for said stats.

The fact that one is made artificially and one is made naturally doesn't mean that they have to have different stats.

Yes actually it does mean they have to have different stats. If Invid abilities are genetic as indicated by the genetic experiment table(s), then there is no guarantee that the off-spring of Royal/Simulagent with a human will have the necessary genetic information (gene or genes) or even if it does that it will be expressed. Each parent contributes 50% of the genes naturally to the genetic lottery, they don't get to choose under natural conditions.

The Experiment results are the result of selective artificial tinkering with the human genome to allow those abilities to express themselves. Tinkering that can include adding, removing, activating, or deactivating various genes to allow those abilities to function. That tinkering is not guaranteed to follow through with the natural genetic lottery.

[Colonel Wolfe]

True....but it is something that is half invid and half human....which means that its stats are that of something that is a hybrid of the two.
A child of an Invid and a Human would be....half invid and half human, and a hybrid of the two....

So yeah, its a good base line for said stats.

The fact that one is made artificially and one is made naturally doesn't mean that they have to have different stats.

Yes actually it does mean they have to have different stats.

Being there is little definition on exactly how the experimental process works. The Idea that its highly controlled and precise is pure conjecture. The fact its one option an random table makes me think the experiments are pretty random in outcome. they Hybrid-template is simply an experiments closest outcome to what a actual genetic paring of a Human and a Invid would be.

[Jefffar]

It may also be random to introduce a 'balance' element into character creation so that players can't strictly optimize on a chosen build and instead adapt to what fate dealt them (just like the character).

[Lt Gargoyle]

True....but it is something that is half invid and half human....which means that its stats are that of something that is a hybrid of the two.
A child of an Invid and a Human would be....half invid and half human, and a hybrid of the two....

So yeah, its a good base line for said stats.

The fact that one is made artificially and one is made naturally doesn't mean that they have to have different stats.

Yes actually it does mean they have to have different stats.

Being there is little definition on exactly how the experimental process works. The Idea that its highly controlled and precise is pure conjecture. The fact its one option an random table makes me think the experiments are pretty random in outcome. they Hybrid-template is simply an experiments closest outcome to what a actual genetic paring of a Human and a Invid would be.

Or it could be that all the others have died off since the DNA on a genetic level did not work. are this is a 1 in 5 chance you will get this character in a lab setting. So what are the odds of you having some superior characters stats if your character is born here? and while the experiments are not really discussed in how they are done. they are still experiments in the Invids lab.

I 'd honestly say its up to the individual GM and how he or she want to deal with it in their game. So the question should be will your GM allow this in his game without you being a micro chip, released experiment. Because the Prince and Princess Cast are late comers in this war so DO not see any PCs being born before the Battle of Reflex Point. but that to is an individual gm choice. But if your GM is playing x amount of years after the battle of reflex and wants to let you play a hybrid. that is a game decision.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Because the Prince and Princess Cast are late comers in this war so DO not see any PCs being born before the Battle of Reflex Point. but that to is an individual gm choice. But if your GM is playing x amount of years after the battle of reflex and wants to let you play a hybrid. that is a game decision.

Not everyone plays the show or movie or even in those eras. Sera is pregnant by 2044-45 and its the first Hybrid baby born in 2045, by 2061 the Child would be old enough to fight in the next invasion that happens every generation.... Rook and Rand's Kid(s), Sera and Lancer's Hybrid(s)... being lead by a Grown up Mint as they butcher the newest race to be stupid enough to attack the earth... (sadly Scott and Ariel get killed in the next movie-if tommy keeps his current plot for Shadows Rising...)
edit: And actually, the Book says that the Simulagenrts have been used for years before she used Ariel.... so there are other opportunities for these hybrids to exist.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Because the Prince and Princess Cast are late comers in this war so DO not see any PCs being born before the Battle of Reflex Point. but that to is an individual gm choice. But if your GM is playing x amount of years after the battle of reflex and wants to let you play a hybrid. that is a game decision.

Not everyone plays the show or movie or even in those eras. Sera is pregnant by 2044-45 and its the first Hybrid baby born in 2045, by 2061 the Child would be old enough to fight in the next invasion that happens every generation.... Rook and Rand's Kid(s), Sera and Lancer's Hybrid(s)... being lead by a Grown up Mint as they butcher the newest race to be stupid enough to attack the earth... (sadly Scott and Ariel get killed in the next movie-if tommy keeps his current plot for Shadows Rising...)

lol, As i said its a gm's call. But as you pointed out, The first hybrid bred through natural means is born after the last battle and not gonna be much help till the next generational war. Which i am hoping would have a better plot device then the hyadonites. And really you actually believe we will have another movie?

[Colonel Wolfe]

Because the Prince and Princess Cast are late comers in this war so DO not see any PCs being born before the Battle of Reflex Point. but that to is an individual gm choice. But if your GM is playing x amount of years after the battle of reflex and wants to let you play a hybrid. that is a game decision.

Not everyone plays the show or movie or even in those eras. Sera is pregnant by 2044-45 and its the first Hybrid baby born in 2045, by 2061 the Child would be old enough to fight in the next invasion that happens every generation.... Rook and Rand's Kid(s), Sera and Lancer's Hybrid(s)... being lead by a Grown up Mint as they butcher the newest race to be stupid enough to attack the earth... (sadly Scott and Ariel get killed in the next movie-if tommy keeps his current plot for Shadows Rising...)

lol, As i said its a gm's call. But as you pointed out, The first hybrid bred through natural means is born after the last battle and not gonna be much help till the next generational war. Which i am hoping would have a better plot device then the hyadonites. And really you actually believe we will have another movie?

The script treatment was leaked 5-6 years ago.... a plot that made Shadow Chronicles look like it was Kubrick production... :/
but, If the Regesis had been using simulagents for a longer period of time, Male Simulagents may have impregnated human females of vise versa... The amount of progress in the studies of human genetics would have benefited greatly from a natural born hybrid.... 14 years is a long long time to occupy the planet... the levels of depravity the invid could have sank to in that time could be explored at a "M-rating" the show/movies could never achieve....

[Lt Gargoyle]

Because the Prince and Princess Cast are late comers in this war so DO not see any PCs being born before the Battle of Reflex Point. but that to is an individual gm choice. But if your GM is playing x amount of years after the battle of reflex and wants to let you play a hybrid. that is a game decision.

Not everyone plays the show or movie or even in those eras. Sera is pregnant by 2044-45 and its the first Hybrid baby born in 2045, by 2061 the Child would be old enough to fight in the next invasion that happens every generation.... Rook and Rand's Kid(s), Sera and Lancer's Hybrid(s)... being lead by a Grown up Mint as they butcher the newest race to be stupid enough to attack the earth... (sadly Scott and Ariel get killed in the next movie-if tommy keeps his current plot for Shadows Rising...)

lol, As i said its a gm's call. But as you pointed out, The first hybrid bred through natural means is born after the last battle and not gonna be much help till the next generational war. Which i am hoping would have a better plot device then the hyadonites. And really you actually believe we will have another movie?

The script treatment was leaked 5-6 years ago.... a plot that made Shadow Chronicles look like it was Kubrick production... :/
but, If the Regesis had been using simulagents for a longer period of time, Male Simulagents may have impregnated human females of vise versa... The amount of progress in the studies of human genetics would have benefited greatly from a natural born hybrid.... 14 years is a long long time to occupy the planet... the levels of depravity the invid could have sank to in that time could be explored at a "M-rating" the show/movies could never achieve....

I know a script leak was let out. And several big budget movies have used tactics like that to throw viewers off. Hell Luke i am your father is only known to a handful of people before the release of starwars. So till the movie is out, i will remain skeptical on it. i'd like to see the movie we were promised and i love to get stats on the hover cyclones they drew up.
And as for Simulagents, according to the game they have been used before with the master war. but in the show there is no reason to believe before arial is produced that the Regesis had human Simulagents running around. Especially for the 13 years before Ariel, as for the game side with a decade of research the Regesis would have more then likely had come up with some better method to deal with the emotional out burst of the Princes and Princess's.

But its a rpg and we can do as we desire. If you want to play a hybrid and your GM is not a pain in your ass and allows without all the rolling you have to do, awesome. I would make it so you would have to suffer the luck of the die. If your GM is like me and would rule out the teleportation, then its not allowed.

[ShadowLogan]

Being there is little definition on exactly how the experimental process works. The Idea that its highly controlled and precise is pure conjecture. The fact its one option an random table makes me think the experiments are pretty random in outcome. they Hybrid-template is simply an experiments closest outcome to what a actual genetic paring of a Human and a Invid would be.

True it is conjecture, but compared to the natural genetic lottery that Lancer and Sera (not to mention Miryia and Max) ARE PLAYING (and so do every other natural human off-spring) the Experimentals/Test Subjects are certainly examples of more control and precision going on.

I have to disagree about the usability of the template, what the experiment shows is an idealized outcome, not the practical outcome of such a union. The Test Subjects are having selected genetic modification done to them, where the Natural Born are playing the genetic lottery.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Being there is little definition on exactly how the experimental process works. The Idea that its highly controlled and precise is pure conjecture. The fact its one option an random table makes me think the experiments are pretty random in outcome. they Hybrid-template is simply an experiments closest outcome to what a actual genetic paring of a Human and a Invid would be.

True it is conjecture, but compared to the natural genetic lottery that Lancer and Sera (not to mention Miryia and Max) ARE PLAYING (and so do every other natural human off-spring) the Experimentals/Test Subjects are certainly examples of more control and precision going on.

I have to disagree about the usability of the template, what the experiment shows is an idealized outcome, not the practical outcome of such a union. The Test Subjects are having selected genetic modification done to them, where the Natural Born are playing the genetic lottery.

The Half-Zent and Half-tirolian templates should be done away with as well if we follow the logic used above. the natural pairings of 2 individuals should not create a stable repeatable out-come due to the nature of the "genetic lottery". The Game has EVERY paring of a human and a Warlord level zent have increased PS, PE and SDC and lower ME and insanity save... Genetics doesn't work like that. Palladium's game template (honestly every RPG) gives these hybrids bonuses to make them closer to the more powerful parent.
The Idea of the discussion is to look for a baseline to start. The "True Invid-Human Hybrid" template is a baseline that game provides to work out something for the games. IMO, the Template is a little weak for the offspring of natural parings, but it creates a baseline.

[ShadowLogan]

The Half-Zent and Half-tirolian templates should be done away with as well if we follow the logic used above. the natural pairings of 2 individuals should not create a stable repeatable out-come due to the nature of the "genetic lottery".

I agree the RT/M2 templates for partial-breeds should be done away with. Even their approach to mixed breeds in their other lines, when possible isn't realistic though it is simpler.

Palladium's game template (honestly every RPG) gives these hybrids bonuses to make them closer to the more powerful parent.

Well if you want to get technical, RT and M2 are the only lines that seem to have this issue within Palaldium AFAIK. In other PB lines (AFIAK) when mixed-parentage CAN happen, the result is the offspring is considered to be equal to a parent's race (full), not necessarily the most powerful or an attempt at watering down or a mix. It's less realistic, but simplier to implement. Unfortunatley Palladium is hamstrung due to the source material in both cases that they have to exist in these lines.

It should also be noted that the RT 2E template results are not as potent as the parent (8 attribute rolls have a wider range, and RCC bonuses are practically non-existent compared to the parent alien).

The Idea of the discussion is to look for a baseline to start. The "True Invid-Human Hybrid" template is a baseline that game provides to work out something for the games. IMO, the Template is a little weak for the offspring of natural parings, but it creates a baseline.

I disagree that the TIHH is the best place to establish a baseline, it is the result of genetic experimentation and not the result of natural selection. That makes it an idealized result, not a practical one. The result of Zentreadi/RM GE on the parent is idealized (from their creator's POV), but their offspring with a human take on a more practical result given the RCC bonuses and 8 attribute range and how they are carried over.

[Colonel Wolfe]

The only cross-breeding in Palladium is typically humans of various varieties.
Ogers (anchient humans) with Earth Humans, True Atlanteens with Humans, ect.
The True-hybrid is completely watered down, its able to Teleport about .00003% the distance about taking 24x longer to recharge. with some minor ability score modifiers, the other abilities are way less powerful.
TBH, I would write natural hybrids to be much more powerful, even expanding to allow Rifts-level Psionics.
its to the point if the only contributions to the topic is to tell people they're wrong and not contribute alternative ideas, there is little reason to continue the round-an-round of disagreement as neither of us is going to see eye to eye on these rules.
See, the Argument of "realistic" and "real-world" falls on deaf ears when its in a setting where you have 8m tall Giants who can shrink to normal size, Millions of Ships frying the earth, Flowers that produce energy greater than Nuclear-fusion and grant immortality. none of this works in the real world...

[Zer0 Kay]

There is no text covering this in both 1st ed and 2nd ed RT.
Thus it is up to the GMs of the individual games to decide such things.

Well, even rules that are explicitly given in the book are up to the Gm to decide to use....
but Genesis pits gave some hints under the invid experiment section how the process might turn out.
these questions came to me when I was browsing the "Lancer is gay" topic... it reminded me that its perfectly canon he's not, as he having a baby with a Female invid princess...

Gonna start this again? Having a child with a female does not restrict one from being gay. Many gay or lesbian people have children in a heterosexual relationship either because they have not "discovered" they're homosexuality or because they are purposefully living a straight life for various reasons. Like producing a child is a litmus test for homosexuality

Lets not hijack the thread with random unsubstantiated fandom wars like (And I consider sexuality of characters to be fandom wars)
If people want to have this argument please take it to PMs or another thread.

Oh, I don't care about the sexuality of the character. I just think it is ignorant to think producing a child is the end all test for that argument.

Warning: Referring to another forum entity, regardless of how subtle or indirect, as "ignorant". - NMI

[Kagashi]

All this is moot. The baby is really Corg's.

[ShadowLogan]

The only cross-breeding in Palladium is typically humans of various varieties.
Ogers (anchient humans) with Earth Humans, True Atlanteens with Humans, ect.

Yes I know, but the result in these case still isn't some mix of the two, its straight one type or the other. The only exception I can think of is when it comes to mating with a god and bearing offspring, but in that case we are dealing with super powerful SN beings.

And Zent/Tirolians essentially fall in the category of human variety. They do break from the PB norm though given the templates, but that is more a result of the source material than their choice.

The True-hybrid is completely watered down, its able to Teleport about .00003% the distance about taking 24x longer to recharge. with some minor ability score modifiers, the other abilities are way less powerful.

It is still the result of GE experimentation, not natural. The Invid can control which genes are expressed in the lab, but have no control over natural selection w/o outside assistance. So the THIH from experimentation is at best an ideal outcome, it is far from a practical outcome so a naturally conceived hybrid shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as the lab version on average.

And we have no idea from the canon material what the abilities of a L-S child might actually be. It could turn out to be Regis 2.0 (GOD), Dana/Mia-esque 2.0 (NONE), or pre-Ep84-5/TSC Ariel/Corg/Sera 2.0 (SENSITIVE) in terms of powers as shown in the animation.

TBH, I would write natural hybrids to be much more powerful, even expanding to allow Rifts-level Psionics.
its to the point if the only contributions to the topic is to tell people they're wrong and not contribute alternative ideas, there is little reason to continue the round-an-round of disagreement as neither of us is going to see eye to eye on these rules.

I don't see why the natural hybrids are going to be much more powerful than an ideal situation lab modification. If anything they should be weaker on average since genetically speaking they aren't able to stack the deck.

I have contributed an alternative idea to how to make it work previously. Roll % dice for each attribute/ability to see which parent it pulls from.

[Colonel Wolfe]

[
It is still the result of GE experimentation, not natural. The Invid can control which genes are expressed in the lab, but have no control over natural selection w/o outside assistance. So the THIH from experimentation is at best an ideal outcome, it is far from a practical outcome so a naturally conceived hybrid shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as the lab version on average.

if they have this much "control" who says this lack of ability isn't purposeful? that they didn't make creatures that match the true power of this combination? and This combination isn't between a human-form invid and a Human, but a pre-human Invid DNA and Human DNA.... as the Final product of the Regis's experiments were the Human-forms who are shown to be genetically
human".

[Lt Gargoyle]

The only cross-breeding in Palladium is typically humans of various varieties.
Ogers (anchient humans) with Earth Humans, True Atlanteens with Humans, ect.
The True-hybrid is completely watered down, its able to Teleport about .00003% the distance about taking 24x longer to recharge. with some minor ability score modifiers, the other abilities are way less powerful.
TBH, I would write natural hybrids to be much more powerful, even expanding to allow Rifts-level Psionics.
its to the point if the only contributions to the topic is to tell people they're wrong and not contribute alternative ideas, there is little reason to continue the round-an-round of disagreement as neither of us is going to see eye to eye on these rules.
See, the Argument of "realistic" and "real-world" falls on deaf ears when its in a setting where you have 8m tall Giants who can shrink to normal size, Millions of Ships frying the earth, Flowers that produce energy greater than Nuclear-fusion and grant immortality. none of this works in the real world...

I do not allow the full Invid to teleport, so i would not allow the hybrid too. But we could design it so that the hybrid could go both ways, a chance to be stonger or weaker then the human parent. some powers may or may not be there. total random abilities or lack of abilities and what about some that are more like curses.

[Colonel Wolfe]

The only cross-breeding in Palladium is typically humans of various varieties.
Ogers (anchient humans) with Earth Humans, True Atlanteens with Humans, ect.
The True-hybrid is completely watered down, its able to Teleport about .00003% the distance about taking 24x longer to recharge. with some minor ability score modifiers, the other abilities are way less powerful.
TBH, I would write natural hybrids to be much more powerful, even expanding to allow Rifts-level Psionics.
its to the point if the only contributions to the topic is to tell people they're wrong and not contribute alternative ideas, there is little reason to continue the round-an-round of disagreement as neither of us is going to see eye to eye on these rules.
See, the Argument of "realistic" and "real-world" falls on deaf ears when its in a setting where you have 8m tall Giants who can shrink to normal size, Millions of Ships frying the earth, Flowers that produce energy greater than Nuclear-fusion and grant immortality. none of this works in the real world...

I do not allow the full Invid to teleport, so i would not allow the hybrid too. But we could design it so that the hybrid could go both ways, a chance to be stonger or weaker then the human parent. some powers may or may not be there. total random abilities or lack of abilities and what about some that are more like curses.

I understand some people disagree with the powers presented in the movie for the human invid. but the game rules give them the ability. the experimental hybrid has a lesser version of the ability.
The issue I have is the Other Hybrid Humans have a pretty standard set of abilities based on the template, creating an overly complex system for the Invid blooded offspring is out of line with the rules presented in the game.
if each of the previous hybrid templates included roll D1000 for each attribute and compare to a chart to see which genetic markers were expressed and which were recessive, how many fingers/toes, # of heads, Extra Limbs/missing limbs, Repetillian/avian/plant/mineral... that way you could roll a quadriplegic houseplant human-tirolian hybrid that is completely unplayable.... but I never bought into the idea of punishing players for making character design choices...

[Colonel Wolfe]

All this is moot. The baby is really Corg's.

Reflex point was located near Canada... not a place known for large amounts of incest

[SRoss]

All this is moot. The baby is really Corg's.

Reflex point was located near Canada... not a place known for large amounts of incest

Not to mention, even on her worst day, Sera has better taste THEN THAT.

[Lt Gargoyle]

The only cross-breeding in Palladium is typically humans of various varieties.
Ogers (anchient humans) with Earth Humans, True Atlanteens with Humans, ect.
The True-hybrid is completely watered down, its able to Teleport about .00003% the distance about taking 24x longer to recharge. with some minor ability score modifiers, the other abilities are way less powerful.
TBH, I would write natural hybrids to be much more powerful, even expanding to allow Rifts-level Psionics.
its to the point if the only contributions to the topic is to tell people they're wrong and not contribute alternative ideas, there is little reason to continue the round-an-round of disagreement as neither of us is going to see eye to eye on these rules.
See, the Argument of "realistic" and "real-world" falls on deaf ears when its in a setting where you have 8m tall Giants who can shrink to normal size, Millions of Ships frying the earth, Flowers that produce energy greater than Nuclear-fusion and grant immortality. none of this works in the real world...

I do not allow the full Invid to teleport, so i would not allow the hybrid too. But we could design it so that the hybrid could go both ways, a chance to be stonger or weaker then the human parent. some powers may or may not be there. total random abilities or lack of abilities and what about some that are more like curses.

I understand some people disagree with the powers presented in the movie for the human invid. but the game rules give them the ability. the experimental hybrid has a lesser version of the ability.
The issue I have is the Other Hybrid Humans have a pretty standard set of abilities based on the template, creating an overly complex system for the Invid blooded offspring is out of line with the rules presented in the game.
if each of the previous hybrid templates included roll D1000 for each attribute and compare to a chart to see which genetic markers were expressed and which were recessive, how many fingers/toes, # of heads, Extra Limbs/missing limbs, Repetillian/avian/plant/mineral... that way you could roll a quadriplegic houseplant human-tirolian hybrid that is completely unplayable.... but I never bought into the idea of punishing players for making character design choices...

If the sentinels get the Psychic and other abilities in the upcoming books, i may consider the teleport ability again. But until then as a GM i have the over all power and say in my game. if you cannot handle that one thing being gone, then play something else. We as GM do not have to allow the RCCs if we do not wish.

And don't get me wrong, i do not think we need a ton of charts, but consider how many humans have gotten their parents poor genes. So yes there should be a chance for that. a couple of GMs from here developed a set of charts for pc to roll on for life and military experiences. And i like them. So in my game I give the option of using them or begin as a first level pc right out of boot camp/MOS training. but if you take the life and military experience. there are some potential injury's that can mess your characters up. from a serious injury to PTSD and sometimes both. so yes there should be some considerable possibilities if you want to play a hybrid. i am not personally fond of the hybrid stuff myself.

I do not consider it punishing the characters I consider it a gamble and a chance to role play. its their choice, but as a gm ask why are they wanting to play this character. In my table top game i have introduced a program where a player can play a genetically alter children who are trained to be soldiers from birth (kinda like soldier with Kurt Russell) only they do have rec time and go through a accelerated education program.

they roll the starting and and their physical attributes are reduced by a dice, and they get a plus one for each year they age after 12 years, they start with an insanity, do to the constant emotional and physical strain they endure. hit points are split in have and then the remaining have is divided by the years they have left to 17 and they get those hit points back as they age. they get limited OCC and MOS options as they are combat soldiers. and their training is on combat. not day to day ship or base operations. Now there are some intense bonuses for the super solders as their genetic coding was set to make them super soldier. but the bonuses are balanced with the negatives. I am not making anyone play these characters. but if you want to, then you have to accept the negative as well as the bonuses.

[Colonel Wolfe]

If the sentinels get the Psychic and other abilities in the upcoming books, i may consider the teleport ability again. But until then as a GM i have the over all power and say in my game. if you cannot handle that one thing being gone, then play something else. We as GM do not have to allow the RCCs if we do not wish.

as a GM you can do what you like, I agree. My RAW version of REF Marines should be in the mailbox soon... then we can see where they are headed with the Alien Races.

And don't get me wrong, i do not think we need a ton of charts, but consider how many humans have gotten their parents poor genes.

but when you roll a human with 3D6's you don't roll on a cart to see if you have hemophilia, scoliosis or dwarfism... you play a "normal/averagr" member of the species in question.

so yes there should be some considerable possibilities if you want to play a hybrid. i am not personally fond of the hybrid stuff myself.

The issue is the other hybrids lack the problems people want to give the hybrids in this thread.we don't have the issues from Macross-f show, you have Klan-Klan who's mutation gives her a giant Fan-service form, and a Sicko-loli form...

not to mention both the Huamn Invid and any children they have risk the issues of being hunted and hated on many places on the earth. The green-blood will eventually become public knowledge and then many towns might blood test strangers, the REF would as well. Thou the Invid fled like cowards, the ones who remain will be hated for the 2 decades they spent enslaving and murdering Earthlings... The scene of Lancer being hunted by the towns folk in "the secret route" might be repeated on many Human invid in the future.
Marcus Rush was quick to ID Ariel as an Invid and was more than ready to blow her away...