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[size=200]Can a spell caster cast the Anti-Magic Cloud spell & stop a Nightbane from

A. Taking on his Morphus form..

B. Using his talents at all?

JUST FOR THE RECORD, IF YOU SAY NO. PLEASE TELL ME IN WHAT BOOK & THE PAGE # THAT IT SAYS YOU STOP A NIGHTBANE FROM USING THERE TALENTS USING OR THERE MORPHUS FORM W/ THAT SPELL........

If Kevin & the other people who write for palladium books could answer, that would be great.....

A. No.
B. No.

Neither the Nightbane's transformation, nor their talents, are magic. Page 87 of the main book mentions several times that the Nightbane are supernatural. Page 106 of the main book notes that talents are supernatural powers. Anti-Magic Cloud does not stop supernatural abilities from working.

Additionally, by the book, there is no Anti-Magic Cloud even available in Nightbane. So the entire question is moot.

Some of the talents are magic, the book clearly states that. It doesn't specify which, but I'd hedge my bet it's at least the ones that have a save vs magic in them.

greenclowd99 wrote:[size=200]Can a spell caster cast the Anti-Magic Cloud spell & stop a Nightbane from

A. Taking on his Morphus form..

B. Using his talents at all?

JUST FOR THE RECORD, IF YOU SAY NO. PLEASE TELL ME IN WHAT BOOK & THE PAGE # THAT IT SAYS YOU STOP A NIGHTBANE FROM USING THERE TALENTS USING OR THERE MORPHUS FORM W/ THAT SPELL........

If Kevin & the other people who write for palladium books could answer, that would be great.....

Page 101 of the NBSG states talents are not spells, psychic powers, or super abilities.

Tor wrote:Some of the talents are magic, the book clearly states that. It doesn't specify which, but I'd hedge my bet it's at least the ones that have a save vs magic in them.

You'll have to provide the book and page number. I've never seen anything even hinting that their talents are magic-based. Nor have I seen any talent other than Gorgon's Touch that has a saving throw associated with it. (The save for that talent only gets one's PE bonus added in, not their entire save vs magic.)

Having said that, I don't have SoL, so there could be something in there that stated they're magic, but the NBSG takes it back.

Nightbane (main book)
Nightbane "talents" are supernatural and magic abilities (store summary and rear cover)

"before players decide to go hog-wild and spend all their character's PPE on magic Talents.." (page 106, under 'Acquiring Talents, 2nd paragraph).

Saves vs magic reinforce this. They are not spells but they are supernatural powers somewhat-similar to magic spells.

I if I was Gming the game, I would houserule that Negate Magic or Anti Magic cloud would forcibly transform them back to human/normal form.
Save vs magic +4 and forced transformations last for 1D6 melees.

say652 wrote:I if I was Gming the game, I would houserule that Negate Magic or Anti Magic cloud would forcibly transform them back to human/normal form.
Save vs magic +4 and forced transformations last for 1D6 melees.

Except human isn't really their normal form, it's even referred to as the facade. Both forms are who they are, with the Morphus really being their 'true' form, no amount of magic can affect that. If memory serves you can't transform a Nightbane by any means other than one using a Talent that they have, so no magic should be able to force them back to being human from morphus.

I agree about the Morphus, anti-magic only seems like a counter to Talents. Dunno if some or all.

1) No.
2) Yes. The AMC would have the same effects on talents that create magic like effects, no questions. However, I could see that the ones that effect just the NB/NS herself might not be effected by the AMC. I'm thinking of the ones like Piecemeal or Swarm Self.

So, here's the writer's take on the metaphysics:

1] The transformation from Facade to Morphus or vice-versa is NOT a "magical" process that can be stopped or otherwise affected by anti-magic cloud. Instead, think of it as a "natural ability."

2] While I would say that Talents would be best described as "Supernatural abilities fueled by magical energy" this does not necessarily make them "magic." Instead they exist somewhere between invocations, psionics, and super powers. Hence, I would lean toward AMC not being able to stop Talents. However, as the effects of a Talent are akin to magic a case might be made that while a Talent could be used it wouldn't do anything while under the cloud. This would put the final verdict in the hands of individual G.M.s. For now, anyway...

I would say that Anti Magic Cloud would

1. not stop a nightSPAWN from transforming
2. Would stop the use of Talents while the user was under the AMC

My reasoning. The fluxuation (without the capacitor) of magical energies temporarily overloas the ability. Like when your phone freezes. So take out the battery wait a minute and good as new.
The morphus imo would do the same thing.
Besides a save vs magic at +4 is a 12 without pe bonuses.
Reasonable ruling.

say652 wrote:My reasoning. The fluxuation (without the capacitor) of magical energies temporarily overloas the ability. Like when your phone freezes. So take out the battery wait a minute and good as new.
The morphus imo would do the same thing.
Besides a save vs magic at +4 is a 12 without pe bonuses.
Reasonable ruling.

Via your house rules does a AMC stop a Changling or Dragon from transforming too?

As Changeling and Dragon. No.

I placed NightBane in the Mystically bestowed Abilities catergory, very similiar but still vastly different. Sdc squishy then boom MDC beastmode.
So yes if anti magic is gonna Knock Apollo Reed back to his normal form its Gonna Knock SEawn out of his demon form as well.

But with both Pre- and post- NBSG the NB/NS the becoming is 'racial'.

I would agree with the Gregorians/Anthantos from Shadows of light (& Rifter ??) would be Mystically bestowed, but not NB/NS.

Powered by magic and use magic abilities.
Fancy wording for Mystic Bestowed Ability.
Roll a save vs magic +4.
-_-

say652 wrote:Powered by magic and use magic abilities.
Fancy wording for Mystic Bestowed Ability.
Roll a save vs magic +4.
-_-

They may share a few surface apperances, but they are not related metaphysically

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

say652 wrote:Powered by magic and use magic abilities.
Fancy wording for Mystic Bestowed Ability.
Roll a save vs magic +4.
-_-

They may share a few surface apperances, but they are not related metaphysically

Page 9 RMB characters with Physical Strength over 17 can carry ps times 20 and lift twice as much. (So that would be lift ps times 40. A juicer lufts FOUR times as much as a person of equivalent strength. Ps times 160lbs!!)

Wonky ruling. save vs magic +4. potato, potato, as they say.

say652 wrote:As Changeling and Dragon. No.

I placed NightBane in the Mystically bestowed Abilities catergory, very similiar but still vastly different. Sdc squishy then boom MDC beastmode.
So yes if anti magic is gonna Knock Apollo Reed back to his normal form its Gonna Knock SEawn out of his demon form as well.

Thank you for letting us know of your house rule.

Makes to much sense to me to rule otherwise.
Actually suprised, shocked and awed, me as a devout munchkin uses some rules that are stricter than Canon.

say652 wrote:My reasoning. The fluxuation (without the capacitor) of magical energies temporarily overloas the ability. Like when your phone freezes. So take out the battery wait a minute and good as new.
The morphus imo would do the same thing.
Besides a save vs magic at +4 is a 12 without pe bonuses.
Reasonable ruling.

They aren't phones. It doesn't work on werewolves, or vampires or changelings. No.

Werewolves vamps etc have vulnerablilities.
Changelings....few and far between.

Mystic Bestowed. More than a couple.
Nightbanes are basically Mystic Bestowed Ability characters with less restrictions and no vulnerabilities.

Save vs magic +4. Since most have ridiculous pe lets say +8 on top of that so now its a save vs a 14 with +12 bonuses not counting natural saves vs magic.

Reasonable, just don't roll a 1 or 2.

say652 wrote:Werewolves vamps etc have vulnerablilities.
Changelings....few and far between.

Mystic Bestowed. More than a couple.
Nightbanes are basically Mystic Bestowed Ability characters with less restrictions and no vulnerabilities.

Save vs magic +4. Since most have ridiculous pe lets say +8 on top of that so now its a save vs a 14 with +12 bonuses not counting natural saves vs magic.

Reasonable, just don't roll a 1 or 2.

If that works for your game then have fun with it. I think the canon case has been made for Anti-Magic Cloud to not affect Nightbane adversely, though.

say652 wrote:Werewolves vamps etc have vulnerablilities.
Changelings....few and far between.

Mystic Bestowed. More than a couple.
Nightbanes are basically Mystic Bestowed Ability characters with less restrictions and no vulnerabilities.

Save vs magic +4. Since most have ridiculous pe lets say +8 on top of that so now its a save vs a 14 with +12 bonuses not counting natural saves vs magic.

Reasonable, just don't roll a 1 or 2.

Depends which contradicting view you go by. The original authors notes had them as the incarnation of the spirits of the formless ones. So it is NOT mystic bestowed. They weren't some person who received the powers. They are a creature who grew up thinking it was human when they were not. Besides if AMC made them go to their natural form it would be the morphus form not the fake facade form

No vulnerabilities? Lets see affected by almost everything normally compared to vampires who's "vulnerability" is required because of their... Hmm... INVULNERABILITY. Same with the were wolf.

Oh noes watch out that Nightspawn can only be affected by silver bullets and wood stakes, and fire, and lightning and led bullets and steel knives and clubs and spears and rocks and lasers and plasma and particle beams and ion beams and ANYTHING launched out of a railgun. Oh wait they don't have any invulnerabilities unless one of their morphus aspects has it who's still doesn't equal a vampires or were creatures invulnerabilities.

The Nightspawns natural form is its Morphus form. Just in case ya didn't see that in the last post.

Morphus may suggest change but Facade, no question about it, means fake, mask, something put over something else.

Nightbane, Post-NBSG, are humans with recessive genes expressed. Pre-NBSG they are SN beings that have hidden themselves behind a facade of humanity.

NightSpawn are SN beings that have hidden behind a facade of humanity.

Saying they are Mystic Bestowed is changing what the books say they ARE.
---------------------------
Even if the AMC did change the NS/ pre-NBSG NB forms they would change them to their morphus. There is plenty of text to support that says that the morphus is the "true form" of the NS/NB individual.
---------------------------
If they fit into and HU power cat it is the Alien Power cat.

say652 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

say652 wrote:Powered by magic and use magic abilities.
Fancy wording for Mystic Bestowed Ability.
Roll a save vs magic +4.
-_-

They may share a few surface apperances, but they are not related metaphysically

Page 9 RMB characters with Physical Strength over 17 can carry ps times 20 and lift twice as much. (So that would be lift ps times 40. A juicer lufts FOUR times as much as a person of equivalent strength. Ps times 160lbs!!)

Wrong thread?

Wonky ruling. save vs magic +4. potato, potato, as they say.

Especially as it does nothing to justify this. what does Juicer strength have anything to do with anti magic clouds or nightbane?

Simply continuing to assert your position dosn't really help explain it. I know what you think, I disagree with your conclusions. Prehaps we should agree to disagree on both counts.

Here is a question....why are we still discussing this since say652 has already said that what say652 said is say652's house rule.

say652 wrote:snip

I placed NightBane in the Mystically bestowed Abilities catergory, ...snip

Ok. Yes. House rule. Also in a few centuries of gaming only crossed up with two Nightbane. And yes I as gm added the Anti Magic Cloud stipulation. It worked very well.

say652 wrote:Ok. Yes. House rule. Also in a few centuries of gaming only crossed up with two Nightbane. And yes I as gm added the Anti Magic Cloud stipulation. It worked very well.

Still gives them greater weakness over other shape hanging creatures, particularly vampires and were creatures.

Way way way more powerful than any lycabthrope vampire or even Super.

say652 wrote:Way way way more powerful than any lycabthrope vampire or even Super.

Really so a nightspawn legally built using random tables has almost full invulnerability? So your counter to a "way way way more powerful" being is to provide an option that makes them completely powerless? So All of the Nighlords now have NOTHING to few from your Nightpawns. They are no longer a bane to them but a joke. That'd be like having a weapon that takes away the GBs reflectivity or EMP weapons to nullify robotechnology. Your house rule singlehandedly negates the center of the game. It is called Nightbane not Vampires and lycanthropes should be balanced with them. Your house rule crashes storyline.

Zer0 Kay wrote:The Nightspawns natural form is its Morphus form.

After their Becoming, sure.

However prior to their Becoming, when they are mere Latents, I would argue that their human form is actually their natural form.

Particularly if theories about the subconscious shaping the Morphus are true. Once you finally Become, then the Morphus is now a reality and your truest form. But first it must be created.

Its not that bad of a penalty for using Nightbane in heroes unlimited or Rifts. Imo.

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Really so a nightspawn legally built using random tables ...snip

Ahhh...but Z0K most people can't make NightSpawn cause they don't have the NSMB. They can only make NB's.

And since say652 ruling is about NB's, therefor us NS makers/users are not affected by say652's ruling. Because NightSpawn are not just humans with some expressed recessive genes, they are a race unto themselves.

Course we NS makers/users can also ignore any stupidness brought about with the RDC and the NBSG for nightbanes.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Really so a nightspawn legally built using random tables ...snip

Ahhh...but Z0K most people can't make NightSpawn cause they don't have the NSMB. They can only make NB's.

And since say652 ruling is about NB's, therefor us NS makers/users are not affected by say652's ruling. Because NightSpawn are not just humans with some expressed recessive genes, they are a race unto themselves.

Course we NS makers/users can also ignore any stupidness brought about with the RDC and the NBSG for nightbanes.

Since there is no difference between the books at all other than changing the name to avoid a lawsuit......

To put it simply... Nightbane are not Mystically Bestowed beings... that would suggest that they are merely humans granted supernatural power by some mysterious entity rather than being their own mystical species. Transforming from Façade to Morphus and back is as natural to Nightbane as shape shifting is to Changelings. That one becomes more powerful in the Morphus is irrelevant... this is a natural ability, not one granted unto the Nightbane by some other entity. Some Nightbane may feel like they have been cursed with this ability... but that doesn't mean they were. Likewise, no supernatural being is known to have been able to strip a Nightbane of their ability (though there are some unethical medical procedures performed by some within Spook Squad that appear to prevent it... by cutting out a portion of the Nightbane's brain while in their Façade).

As for their Morphus being their "true" form... this too is a bit of a fallacy. The truth is that Nightbane quickly become accustomed to their new, inhuman form... to the point where it feels as natural to them as their human form was before their Becoming. It becomes so natural that they can even sleep in their Morphus without reverting back to their Façade (even though many often reverted back to their more human appearance once they exhausted themselves after their Becoming). This has lead many Nightbane to "believe" that their Morphus is their true form and their Façade is merely the illusion they wore, however the fact that a Nightbane who dies in their Morphus form dissolves into black light while one killed in the Façade leaves behind a corpse leads others to believe otherwise. While the argument is unlikely to ever be resolved within the Nightbane community, almost none consider another possibility... that both forms are "True".

Yep, for the most part, and that means there is a NS MB that people can augment with all the NB books if they choose. Sort of like there is an entire "mirror" setting to the NB setting where the initial core concepts have not been changed by successive books.
-------------------------------------------------
NB, when in the Astral Plane are there in their morphus, not their facade...even if they were in their facade when they started their astral adventure.

Tor wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:The Nightspawns natural form is its Morphus form.

After their Becoming, sure.

However prior to their Becoming, when they are mere Latents, I would argue that their human form is actually their natural form.

Particularly if theories about the subconscious shaping the Morphus are true. Once you finally Become, then the Morphus is now a reality and your truest form. But first it must be created.

I'd accept that.

say652 wrote:Its not that bad of a penalty for using Nightbane in heroes unlimited or Rifts. Imo.

HU, N&S, BtS, AtB... Yes
Rifts...... NB aren't the biggest or even mid sized fish in the sea.

eliakon wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Really so a nightspawn legally built using random tables ...snip

Ahhh...but Z0K most people can't make NightSpawn cause they don't have the NSMB. They can only make NB's.

And since say652 ruling is about NB's, therefor us NS makers/users are not affected by say652's ruling. Because NightSpawn are not just humans with some expressed recessive genes, they are a race unto themselves.

Course we NS makers/users can also ignore any stupidness brought about with the RDC and the NBSG for nightbanes.

Since there is no difference between the books at all other than changing the name to avoid a lawsuit......

Untrue. There is an entire different section on how they became known as Nightbane.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

say652 wrote:Its not that bad of a penalty for using Nightbane in heroes unlimited or Rifts. Imo.

HU, N&S, BtS, AtB... Yes
Rifts...... NB aren't the biggest or even mid sized fish in the sea.

Nightbane are actually fairly upper teir, even in Rifts. They are not top teir on par with adult dragons and suchlike, no, but i'd rate them between lower mid teir and upper mid teir, depending on the actual morphus. After all, some Morphus's would be only average as far as supernatural abilities go, but some legal combinations allow them to have hundreds of MDC that regenerate very quickly, and very high physical attributes, as well as a host of other useful innate abilities. The thing about nightbane is that their powers have a much larger absolute range than most species. But the nightbanes upper range easially rivals that of greater demons and other upper mid teir powerhouses, even if only a few of them.

Lets break it down:

The facade form allows them to trivally evade detection by psionic or magical means, potentially making them good canidates for sneaking into and out of CS Mega Cities.

Their facade form dosn't heal naturally or have MDC to give them away, but the heal facade talent would let them regenerate it if it takes particular damage

Their regeneration in their powerful form is quite fast, making it easy for them to escape from fights, recover, and get back into it.

Anti-Arcane offers immense protection from magic users, shadow sheild is a fairly effeicent MDC armor, on top of any provided by morphus forms, Doorway provides trivial means of escape from any situation--or getting into said situations quickly for surprise attacks. Speed Darkling offers speeds not only in the hundreds of miles per hour but autododge. and that's just some of hte more obvious talent choices.

Nightbane can learn magic. Given that Nightbane can learn magic either by studying before their becoming or by being quickly intiated immediately after before their natural Talent development overtakes them, it can be easially argued that Nightbane can even learn specalized Magic class hybrids--however, that's a maybe. but even IF one assumes they are limited only to the Nightbane Sorcerer/mystic, a Nightbane sorcerer has just as much potential mastery of magic as any ley line walker, just fewer special abilities that talents more than compensate for. yes, they may have to sacrafise some permanent PPE for some, but PPE is also much more plentiful and easier to come by, so burning PPE base for talents is a tradeoff that makes sense in Rifts, only further boosting their potential.

Now, if you really want to debate, I can whip up some legal nightbane builds that i'm confident could stand up to any mid-teir being you thrust. I won't say they are top teir in Rifts, because the signficant bell curve means the most lucrative Morphus trait combinations will be a rarity, but on average they come out quite potent (although bad rolls could make a poor showing, that's true with almost anything--it's a bell curve and some will wind up on the crappy end of it)

Regarding absolute range, did we ever get a range cap for Darkblast or the Guardian's light blast?

Tor wrote:Regarding absolute range, did we ever get a range cap for Darkblast or the Guardian's light blast?

I assume you mean "Shadowblast", And the Range limit is right there in the talent itself, 500'.

Guardians light blast power have no stated range limit. I can only assume it's "Line of Sight" by default.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Tor wrote:Regarding absolute range, did we ever get a range cap for Darkblast or the Guardian's light blast?

I assume you mean "Shadowblast", And the Range limit is right there in the talent itself, 500'.

Guardians light blast power have no stated range limit. I can only assume it's "Line of Sight" by default.

So Cassiopeia then?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

say652 wrote:Its not that bad of a penalty for using Nightbane in heroes unlimited or Rifts. Imo.

HU, N&S, BtS, AtB... Yes
Rifts...... NB aren't the biggest or even mid sized fish in the sea.

Nightbane are actually fairly upper teir, even in Rifts. They are not top teir on par with adult dragons and suchlike, no, but i'd rate them between lower mid teir and upper mid teir, depending on the actual morphus. After all, some Morphus's would be only average as far as supernatural abilities go, but some legal combinations allow them to have hundreds of MDC that regenerate very quickly, and very high physical attributes, as well as a host of other useful innate abilities. The thing about nightbane is that their powers have a much larger absolute range than most species. But the nightbanes upper range easially rivals that of greater demons and other upper mid teir powerhouses, even if only a few of them.

Lets break it down:

The facade form allows them to trivally evade detection by psionic or magical means, potentially making them good canidates for sneaking into and out of CS Mega Cities.

Their facade form dosn't heal naturally or have MDC to give them away, but the heal facade talent would let them regenerate it if it takes particular damage

Their regeneration in their powerful form is quite fast, making it easy for them to escape from fights, recover, and get back into it.

Anti-Arcane offers immense protection from magic users, shadow sheild is a fairly effeicent MDC armor, on top of any provided by morphus forms, Doorway provides trivial means of escape from any situation--or getting into said situations quickly for surprise attacks. Speed Darkling offers speeds not only in the hundreds of miles per hour but autododge. and that's just some of hte more obvious talent choices.

Nightbane can learn magic. Given that Nightbane can learn magic either by studying before their becoming or by being quickly intiated immediately after before their natural Talent development overtakes them, it can be easially argued that Nightbane can even learn specalized Magic class hybrids--however, that's a maybe. but even IF one assumes they are limited only to the Nightbane Sorcerer/mystic, a Nightbane sorcerer has just as much potential mastery of magic as any ley line walker, just fewer special abilities that talents more than compensate for. yes, they may have to sacrafise some permanent PPE for some, but PPE is also much more plentiful and easier to come by, so burning PPE base for talents is a tradeoff that makes sense in Rifts, only further boosting their potential.

Now, if you really want to debate, I can whip up some legal nightbane builds that i'm confident could stand up to any mid-teir being you thrust. I won't say they are top teir in Rifts, because the signficant bell curve means the most lucrative Morphus trait combinations will be a rarity, but on average they come out quite potent (although bad rolls could make a poor showing, that's true with almost anything--it's a bell curve and some will wind up on the crappy end of it)

Aww come on Nekira, ya know I'm a Nightspawn fan used to have that story you liked on your old website about my NS and her twin.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

say652 wrote:Its not that bad of a penalty for using Nightbane in heroes unlimited or Rifts. Imo.

HU, N&S, BtS, AtB... Yes
Rifts...... NB aren't the biggest or even mid sized fish in the sea.

Nightbane are actually fairly upper teir, even in Rifts. They are not top teir on par with adult dragons and suchlike, no, but i'd rate them between lower mid teir and upper mid teir, depending on the actual morphus. After all, some Morphus's would be only average as far as supernatural abilities go, but some legal combinations allow them to have hundreds of MDC that regenerate very quickly, and very high physical attributes, as well as a host of other useful innate abilities. The thing about nightbane is that their powers have a much larger absolute range than most species. But the nightbanes upper range easially rivals that of greater demons and other upper mid teir powerhouses, even if only a few of them.

Lets break it down:

The facade form allows them to trivally evade detection by psionic or magical means, potentially making them good canidates for sneaking into and out of CS Mega Cities.

Their facade form dosn't heal naturally or have MDC to give them away, but the heal facade talent would let them regenerate it if it takes particular damage

Their regeneration in their powerful form is quite fast, making it easy for them to escape from fights, recover, and get back into it.

Anti-Arcane offers immense protection from magic users, shadow sheild is a fairly effeicent MDC armor, on top of any provided by morphus forms, Doorway provides trivial means of escape from any situation--or getting into said situations quickly for surprise attacks. Speed Darkling offers speeds not only in the hundreds of miles per hour but autododge. and that's just some of hte more obvious talent choices.

Nightbane can learn magic. Given that Nightbane can learn magic either by studying before their becoming or by being quickly intiated immediately after before their natural Talent development overtakes them, it can be easially argued that Nightbane can even learn specalized Magic class hybrids--however, that's a maybe. but even IF one assumes they are limited only to the Nightbane Sorcerer/mystic, a Nightbane sorcerer has just as much potential mastery of magic as any ley line walker, just fewer special abilities that talents more than compensate for. yes, they may have to sacrafise some permanent PPE for some, but PPE is also much more plentiful and easier to come by, so burning PPE base for talents is a tradeoff that makes sense in Rifts, only further boosting their potential.

Now, if you really want to debate, I can whip up some legal nightbane builds that i'm confident could stand up to any mid-teir being you thrust. I won't say they are top teir in Rifts, because the signficant bell curve means the most lucrative Morphus trait combinations will be a rarity, but on average they come out quite potent (although bad rolls could make a poor showing, that's true with almost anything--it's a bell curve and some will wind up on the crappy end of it)

Aww come on Nekira, ya know I'm a Nightspawn fan used to have that story you liked on your old website about my NS and her twin.

I'll admit, I didn't actually look at who was posting, what I get for posting eairly in the morning.

That said, I will stand by what I said. a well-built Nightbane is differently more than low teir in Rifts.

The Beast wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Tor wrote:Regarding absolute range, did we ever get a range cap for Darkblast or the Guardian's light blast?

I assume you mean "Shadowblast", And the Range limit is right there in the talent itself, 500'.

Guardians light blast power have no stated range limit. I can only assume it's "Line of Sight" by default.

So Cassiopeia then?

I have no idea what a constellation has to do with anything I said?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

The Beast wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Tor wrote:Regarding absolute range, did we ever get a range cap for Darkblast or the Guardian's light blast?

I assume you mean "Shadowblast", And the Range limit is right there in the talent itself, 500'.

Guardians light blast power have no stated range limit. I can only assume it's "Line of Sight" by default.

So Cassiopeia then?

I have no idea what a constellation has to do with anything I said?

It has a star that's the farthest humans can see with the naked eye. So since V762 is visible, it's in the LOS, which makes a Guardian's light blast have a range of roughly 16,308 light years.

It's light, so that seems legit.