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So my dm allowed me to bring in a wizard from palladium. My wizard was given a ring of natural AR some time ago, and my dm is not sure on how to convert. I've been searching, couldn't find anything like that anywhere. Is there any precedent or guide for stuff like this? I know such items aren't normal palladium/rifts gear.

AR doesn't convert to MDC. It isn't covered in MDC to SDC conversions found in Conversion Book 1(revised) or Dragons and Gods.

There are creatures with natural ARs in CB1r/D&G and stats in MDC universe. That would be a good place to start to get a feel. I've actually wondered about that myself to convert some MDC races to SDC level (when not provided).

The simplest ways to work with it is to:
-just treat it as AR for SDC attacks
-could also simply change the Rings effects to one of the armor spells, though it should be a spell that you think is used to enchant the ring so all the higher PPE levels do is alter the expression of that spell. May or may not want to have it as some number per day use.
-simply adapt the natural AR in to a bonus to defensive actions by the character, or attacks are put at a negative to strike

mooseontheloose wrote:So my dm allowed me to bring in a wizard from palladium. My wizard was given a ring of natural AR some time ago, and my dm is not sure on how to convert. I've been searching, couldn't find anything like that anywhere. Is there any precedent or guide for stuff like this? I know such items aren't normal palladium/rifts gear.

Having an AR dosn't make you MDC in Rifts automatically. Nor does it apply to MDC attacks. your wizard keeps his AR unchanged, and it only applies to any SDC he attacks he might take.

Sorry, sounds disapointing, but that is the current rule.

Your GM can convert the ring as he or she sees fit. While there is precedent for natural AR in Rifts, it is very uncommon and mostly useless. In the same position, I'd probably give the ring's wearer 50 M.D.C. that restores itself to full M.D.C. every 24 hours. Not good enough to replace actual armor, but better than a kick in the head.

I'd go similar to Bill, but probably make it 5-10 MDC per point of AR. I'd also be inclined to give it a gradual recharge rate that equals full MD every 24 hours, but not a "midnight reset".

So, if it's a natural AR 8, you might say it's 40 MDC, and it recharges 2 MD per hour. That's a bit more than full MDC every day, but slow enough that you have to be careful.

Part of why I'd make it MDC? Because in Rifts, magic gets supercharged.

Dragons are in both Rifts and PF. In Rifts they are MDC and in PF they have a high NAR.

While NS is technically correct that NAR does not convert directly according to the Conversion text, there are other text that a GM could apply to this. Granting a bit of MDC to the mage while the ring is worn. However this is all up to the GM because there is no specific text covering an IronHide magic ring. 5 to 10 MDC per NAR point would be my suggestion. Though if it is an Ironhide ring (NAR 18) I would go more toward the 5 MDC per point.

I'd go with HP+SDC=MDC

Bill wrote:Your GM can convert the ring as he or she sees fit. While there is precedent for natural AR in Rifts, it is very uncommon and mostly useless. In the same position, I'd probably give the ring's wearer 50 M.D.C. that restores itself to full M.D.C. every 24 hours. Not good enough to replace actual armor, but better than a kick in the head.

That is better than armor worn by rifts mages so it is better than armor. Mages do not where heavy armor and many mages only have armor with around 35MDC. Giving that it that higher than light armor and regenerates it is way better than light armor mages normally where.

Another option could be that you keep the AR but have the character take only half damage if the attack is below AR.

Killer Cyborg wrote:I'd go with HP+SDC=MDC

Seconded. And the AR drops off completely (till he goes back to Palladium, HU2, or any other SDC realm...then it converts back).

Kagashi wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I'd go with HP+SDC=MDC

Seconded. And the AR drops off completely (till he goes back to Palladium, HU2, or any other SDC realm...then it converts back).

I was confused by this at first but what you're saying is that the ring would convert the mage into an MDC being instead of having an AR. This is a really good idea.

Blue_Lion wrote:

Bill wrote:Your GM can convert the ring as he or she sees fit. While there is precedent for natural AR in Rifts, it is very uncommon and mostly useless. In the same position, I'd probably give the ring's wearer 50 M.D.C. that restores itself to full M.D.C. every 24 hours. Not good enough to replace actual armor, but better than a kick in the head.

That is better than armor worn by rifts mages so it is better than armor. Mages do not where heavy armor and many mages only have armor with around 35MDC. Giving that it that higher than light armor and regenerates it is way better than light armor mages normally where.

The ring isn't restricted to mages and there are better spell options. I stand by my recommendation.

nilgravity wrote:

Kagashi wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I'd go with HP+SDC=MDC

Seconded. And the AR drops off completely (till he goes back to Palladium, HU2, or any other SDC realm...then it converts back).

I was confused by this at first but what you're saying is that the ring would convert the mage into an MDC being instead of having an AR. This is a really good idea.

"can "might" "maybe" are the type of words that were used. There was also a mentioning of GM's and it being their choice if or not.

AR would help against SDC attacks, several non-MDC races have had natural ARs in Rifts. The Amaki being the strongest example I know of.

It would work the same in Rifts as in Palladium. You would probably be able to win a fist fight with any human-like creature on the planet while wearing it. You may even be able to "punch above your weight" against other SDC opponents.

A lot of folks on these boards play MD heavy games where this ring would probably be overshadowed easily. The ring would come into its own in places where you can't stroll down the street in PA with a railgun in hand.

*wonders how armor rating works in an automatic body flip* you think the flip roll has to surpass it?

Tor wrote:*wonders how armor rating works in an automatic body flip* you think the flip roll has to surpass it?

The exact same way body armor does.....it doesn't do anything to stop you from being flipped, though it would protect from damage.

Right but, is it an automatic protection from damage because there's no strike roll?

I recall something about while body flips could have critical strikes, automatic ones couldn't since they were a defensive move. IE you roll a natural 20 you are guaranteed to defend but don't double the damage. Least in N*SS. Not sure if Rifts/HU commented on this.

Tor wrote:Right but, is it an automatic protection from damage because there's no strike roll?

I recall something about while body flips could have critical strikes, automatic ones couldn't since they were a defensive move. IE you roll a natural 20 you are guaranteed to defend but don't double the damage. Least in N*SS. Not sure if Rifts/HU commented on this.

Where is there a statement that you don't have to roll to flip something? Your 'flip' roll is your 'strike' roll for purposes of this.

A GM could house-rule that but I'm wondering the RAW of the situation since it's definitely not actually a strike roll. If it were, I'd expect there to be some kind of chance to dodge/parry it, or for there to be some kind of penalty to do it if you were blind.

I'm actually not even sure if a non-automatic body flip/throw is a "strike", since it's non-impactful. I guess in the same sense that a 'grab' is a strike, like a roll to aim/contact/reach even if terms like hit/strike sound too hard for such a (to begin with) soft maneuver.

Rifts Japan 191 inherits N&SS text to support the idea that a critical hit only occurs on normal body flip but not automatic since automatic is "a defensive move" while the normal is "an attack"

For that reason... if automatic body flip is not actually an attack and rolling with impact must roller higher than "the attacker's roll", a GM might rule that you have to roll the generic 14+ instead of the body flip? That could be a nice benefit to make up for the not being able to add strike bonuses (if you consider the normal move to be a strike)

Tor wrote:A GM could house-rule that but I'm wondering the RAW of the situation since it's definitely not actually a strike roll. If it were, I'd expect there to be some kind of chance to dodge/parry it, or for there to be some kind of penalty to do it if you were blind.

I'm actually not even sure if a non-automatic body flip/throw is a "strike", since it's non-impactful. I guess in the same sense that a 'grab' is a strike, like a roll to aim/contact/reach even if terms like hit/strike sound too hard for such a (to begin with) soft maneuver.

Rifts Japan 191 inherits N&SS text to support the idea that a critical hit only occurs on normal body flip but not automatic since automatic is "a defensive move" while the normal is "an attack"

For that reason... if automatic body flip is not actually an attack and rolling with impact must roller higher than "the attacker's roll", a GM might rule that you have to roll the generic 14+ instead of the body flip? That could be a nice benefit to make up for the not being able to add strike bonuses (if you consider the normal move to be a strike)

You referring to automatic flip as a replacement for a parry. It still requires a roll to beat the strike roll of the attacker it works like a parry that makes them fall down.

Yeah. I guess Rifts Japan doesn't explicitly mention it doing damage though I kinda figured it was like a "see body flip for effects" type of thing. Inability to damage with it would certainly avoid the 'do we double on a natural 20' and 'do we surpass AR' dilemmas. To give any kind of incentive to use it I'd at least give the 'lose initiative and your attack' benefit though.