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Like a lot of us, I cut my teeth on a 1st and 2nd edition of another game back in the early 80's. One aspect of this game that I always loved was the idea of the megadungeon. a certain set of Ruins Under a mountain for instance provided my gaming group with well over 2 years worth of related quests. Now I am missing a few world books (Western Empire, Eastern Territory, Library of Bletherad, Land of the Damned 1 and 2) I have every intention of getting them, but as of yet I do not really see any megadungeons in the mix. So what I am curious about is, do you think Palladium would be interested in a fleshed out Megadungeon (probably going to use the idea of a abandoned Dwarven Kingdom repurposed by some nefarious villain) submitted to them over a series of articles for Rifter or submitted in its entirety for consideration as a solo sourcebook? I LOVE the canon of Palladium Fantasy. Next to the Old World of Warhammer fame it is probably my favorite fantasy world I have read as it just evokes that grittier dark fantasy feel with the all the magic of a high fantasy setting. I have never submitted anything before and I have read through the guidelines, even have a professional artist interested in illustrating for me as well. Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks

I always thought the idea of a Megadungeon was well suited to Palladium, I'd love to see one over a number of Rifters.

Back when I GMed PF, I made a 13 level dungeon, run by a Demon Lord as the Boss, located in the mountains that border the LoTD. I remember having everything worked out, including sleeping quarters for everything, air vents for ventilation, and food storage. I'd love to get a chance to run a character through a big dungeon these days. Time to stock up on spikes and 10 foot poles...

There should be abandoned Dwarf cities, the majority in ruins, all over the Old Kingdom, buried who knows where (Old Kingdom Mountains? Could be an adventure just getting to it). Honestly I think the Old Kingdom has the most coolness potential. Old Kingdoms is in dire need of some fleshing out.

Scratch that just bought Western Empire from Palladium Store. In fact gonna try to get a book or two a month from here on out till I complete my Palladium collection. Even if I don't use them I love the artwork and writing in most products I have come across. So the idea is ramping up big time in my head. I am thinking perhaps one of the greatest Dwarven Kingdoms, and also the site of one of the only actual underground conflicts in the Elf/Dwarf War ,a Dwarven Kingdom originally named Deeps Delving Halls. The antagonist, an Elf whom was left in a sort of a half life due to one of the old Dwarven Rune Weapons, Haldreithen the grey, in his hatred and anger vowed that as he would never know peace, neither would his enemies the Dwarves. Using a mixture of necromancy and Diabolistic Ward Magic, he has spent millenia building an army composed of the Dead from the titanic battle. So long has his hatred burned, he soon forgot his whole motivation and began raising all dead from both sides, his only focus being the eldritch power that now fuels his eternal rage. Coupled with the fact that over time he has assembled more of the vaunted Rune Weapons then any other known being, all in the hands of the heroic dead who originally wielded them, fused to his control. The forges glow once again under the mountain and evils thought left behind or lost to time have once again began to surface.

Sounds rough. Could be a load of fun though. Better get an axe.

I always thought that running an adventure were a large portion of it is about where to dig to find a lost city (probably with treasure) would be fun. Thinking like "Raiders of the Lost Ark." Have a competing group out looking too...

"They're digging in the wrong place!"

Orgod's Backbone in the far north of the Northern Mountains around the Grand Valley would be a good choice. Orgod was a renegade dwarf lord rune smith who carved out a personal kingdom up there. There's tons of potential for both older and newer parts of a single mega-dungeon involving multiple factions, from a Citadel outposts, Old One worshippers trying to uncover a sleeping Old One, angels trying to safeguard it, denizens of the Land of the Damned trying to hide from their oppressors, and the Bizantium Scouting Corps. The Old Kingdom Mountains are certainly another possibility, but my understanding is that the Kobolds have largely moved in. It could also tie into the third Land of the Damned book that Kevin has on his shortish-term radar.

Your concept would likely translate well into such a location.

Currently I am looking at the Old Kingdom with the impetus being Acoroc (sp) the dwarven city in the Old Kingdom sends an expedition to said site, having no idea of the old kingdom's plight, but in hopes of finding some truth to the rumor that smoke is once again coming from the old forge plumes, (Kobold merchant perhaps lets on that his people have long stayed away from that area due to the Grey one's wrath but can't resist rubbing it in the Dwarves faces) The PC's would have several ongoing options for going back and forth, such as :

Pure Greed
The eventual realization that something more is going on
Oodles of plausible magical loot to entice them
Various Mage's Guilds would prize many of the items to be found within the Dwarven Halls, remember this was the height of Dwarven Rune Use
Expedition contract, where heroes get a certain percentage of all gold and gems found, but all items are subject to inspection for being holy relics...

Perhaps a outpost on the frontier near said mountain range ran by Dwarves from Acoroc who "administer" (basically pilfer all the good stuff while maintaining a stranglehold over people coming and going from the ruins

The Dwarves have several reasons for insuring certain goods do not leave the mountains. Many Rune Weapons were used in the war, and the Dwarves would in no way wish these to get out where they could cause harm once again. Besides if foolhardy adventurers are going to go poking through your ancestors bones, you might as well find some way to get compensation and protect your heritage.

The downside is, so far the few who have made it back speak of angry undead things, crawling through the dark and unspeakable dread that drove them from seeking any further. So I am going to read some Rifters and see how I want to put this together. I was thinking perhaps a level or area at a time. Think I need to just get to typing in submission format and see how deep I get. For the sake of space would you just refer GM's to the Monsters and Animals page number for various beasts and only including the full stat wall for "Special Monsters" specific to the adventure?

Just for fun, I will post the intro text at the beginning since its not really giving any nuts and bolts away. Please critique away!!!! It can only help me refine this project.

The Elf/Dwarf War has always been a pretty big historical event in the Palladium Fantasy setting. It pitted two of the most ancient and arguably powerful sentient races against each other and in its wake left nothing but death and destruction behind. Over 10,000 years have passed since the events of the Elf Dwarf war ended but even time cannot damper the hatred of some. One such creature was an elf by the name of Haldreithen, Prince of the Silver Elm, First Magister of the Tower of Elreth. In one epic battle, Haldreithen lead an assault directly on the Dwarven Kingdom of Grunni's Deeps, employing the power of Elven Earth Warlocks to break through what was once thought to be impregnable defenses. For almost 70 years the Dwarves and Elves fought back and forth, Haldreithen's troops pressing ever onward using magic to unblock tunnels, divert traps and turn the Dwarves defenses back on them. The Dwarves meanwhile, used the power of their rune magic to make the Elves pay dearly for every foot gained within their home. In the end, Haldreithen and King Grimnir fought a titanic battle, the King's Rune Axe ,Soul-blighter cutting deeply into Haldreithen's Mail Coat and shredding his wards upon it even as the triggers of said wards tore the Dwarf King to tatters.
It was thought by many that the story ended there. So explosive was the wave of magic that went off that no one left in the halls of the King was left alive. Dust settled on the bodies of the dead, and soon all mention of the great battle faded from the memories of the few wounded who never made it to the final battle. Soon after, the Dwarves and Elves termed their peace, but deep, deep beneath the mountains surface something stirred. Something came to unlife, the hatred inside its chest a smoldering coal, but still burning quite hot. Haldreithen of Silver Elm arose and surveyed all the dead around him. He looked down upon his once brilliant armor and saw it rent asunder, a gaping hole missing out of his chest, eldritch blue light leaking out from behind ribs long since missing their flesh covering. Somehow, Haldreithen was still sentient, though his physical body was beyond reclaim.
Millennia passed, the gates to the kingdom crumbled to dust and pebbles, shafts collapsing upon themselves. Kobolds, from the Silver Range Mountains, long allies of the Dwarves, began noticing roughly 20 years ago, smoke coming from the mountains. Upon exploration, they soon came to realize that the smoke filtering out of ancient plumes was not from some geothermal event, but that of forges being stoked after nearly ten millennia of inactivity. Kobolds, being industrious, and not easily scared, began to poke and explore around the area, but when groups of twenty or more failed to return from scouting missions, they knew something was not right. Long have the Kobolds of the Silver Range been allies of the Dwarves, though for reasons at this point both peoples have forgotten to time. So when a enterprising Kobold by the name of Guzgash came to the iron city of Acoroc with tales of smoke coming from ancient ruins buried deep in the mountains, the Dwarves of Acoroc were of course interested.
The Dwarves and Kobolds both began to consult their histories, looking to see if some reference in their past could give some clue as to this. The Dwarves from Grunni's Deep that survived were so few that all mention of the kingdom was lost to time among their people, but some of the historians in Acoroc's dwarven library were able to piece together a few details about a kingdom known as Grunni's Deep that had existed during the time of the Elf/Dwarf War. Guzgash agreed to take an expedition of Dwarves back through the tunnels running from the Silver Range Mountains Kobold hold of Boulderhack. Once again with the help of their friends the Kobolds, Dwarves began to explore the area themselves, finding the ancient gates to Grunni's Deeps sundered. For the next few years work began in earnest to open the entrance tunnels. However for every step forward they took two steps back. Supports would be found sabotaged, whole groups of tunnelers would vanish with no trace.
One Dwarf, by the name of Drungal Ferrisson, came up with a plan. The Dwarven people had suffered enough in terms of losses by his estimation. Why continually bring risk to themselves when there were more then enough greedy adventurer types to profit from whom would willing brave the depths in hopes of finding some grand treasure horde left behind. Drungal assembled a group of like minded Dwarves and Kobolds and they set about creating the town of Barumruth, Drungal then assembled a sizable guard force to ensure the one entrance area to the dungeon that was still open remained that way and was well guarded .
Now, in the present, Barumruth is a thriving town, with many businesses there to sell and buy adventurers goods. The Dwarves maintain a flat fee of 45 gold a person and sign a contract of heritage assesment and surrender to enter the ruins through their guarded portal. Since there is only one way in and out that has been found and is readily available this not only allows the Dwarves complete control of whom goes in or out, but upon return all adventurers are forced to allow inspection of any goods that are found. Any monetary or gem sums are charged a 10% surcharge fee, any rune weapons WILL be confiscated. The Dwarves in no way will allow players or anyone else to leave the area without inspection. If players try to make a stink, bells will toll summoning the self appointed Deeps Guardians, (stats given later) to control the situation while the 20 guards at the entrance delay the players. It seems like overkill to anyone looking at the numbers, particularly if the guardians appear, but once players actually make it into the depths, It will become clear its not near enough!

If I may make a humble suggestion sir, change "foot note" in the first line to something like 'event.' The Elf-Dwarf war is much, much more than a foot note, more like a major defining event, that shaped the Palladium World as we know it.

I'll see if I can read over it again later when I get more time. I'm liking your enthusiasm.

Jerell wrote:If I may make a humble suggestion sir, change "foot note" in the first line to something like 'event.' The Elf-Dwarf war is much, much more than a foot note, more like a major defining event, that shaped the Palladium World as we know it.

I'll see if I can read over it again later when I get more time. I'm liking your enthusiasm.

Thanks for pointing that out I revised that little bit and caught something else left out as well.

I do like the concept, xandar2000.

And Palladium is sorely lacking in big dungeon scenarios. (Published, anyway.)

the ancient gamer wrote:I do like the concept, xandar2000.

And Palladium is sorely lacking in big dungeon scenarios. (Published, anyway.)

Well I am doing this for we the fans, if Palladium likes it great...if they don't then I will just have another homebrew adventure for my own use. Either way I really like the community here so I look forward to trying to give back some.

Speaking of fandom I literally cannot wait for Christmas in July surprise package to get here. Feel like I'm 8 years old again!

Good luck.

Hmm... something like this would call for a collection of tactical maps. I've occasionally wanted to try my hand at that.

Hotrod wrote:Hmm... something like this would call for a collection of tactical maps. I've occasionally wanted to try my hand at that.

So far I am writing out the surrounding outside environs, the town of Barumruth and specific NPC's on the surface side. I have a very light bones done for the inside, but so far I am thinking at least 14 levels of dungeon, some pretty darn extensive, after all this was a Dwarven Kingdom, and now it is filled with the tireless undead who have modified things to their own purpose. Not to mention the fact I am creating some special undead types due to the special conditions of the setting. I was never great at making maps by hand, and now that my Multiple Sclerosis has gotten pretty bad, I think anything I tried to draw out would look like a over caffienated kid with a etch sketch and a broke ruler went to work on a piece of graph paper. I have never done map making on the PC (yes personal computer Kevin!) but if you have any suggestions please let me know. Again this is totally a labor of love that may or may not bare fruit some day.

Well, for any attempt at mapmaking, the Cartographers Guild website is a treasure trove of info. I haven't done any dungeon/tactical maps, and I've only ever tried doing one city map. If you have the cash, I've seen some pretty decent dungeon maps done with Campaign Cartographer. That said, I generally prefer the look of maps made in Photoshop or GIMP over those made by assembling prefabricated images, which is how CC works.

Bit the bullet and got CC3 DD3 CD3 and the fractal map bundle. Now for the huge learning curve. Got about 173 rooms detailed out so far, and I have been doing rough hand sketches so the first level and 2nd levels are mostly done. I am gonna give myself a week or so to learn this new software though.

BookWyrm wrote:I have but four words to say;

Grimtooth's. Dungeon. Of. Doom.

Wasn't that originally a Tunnels and Trolls bundle?

I would like to see your finished work, sounds like you have good background so far, i would be more then happy to play test the dungeon on my group.

Last I heard they were hungry for adventure material. Give sending it in a shot!

Go for it!

There are huge differences between good writing, good stories, and good ideas. Even if you have trouble with the writing, mapping, or anything else; you have a good idea that could become a great story. Others can help with writing, play balance, etc. Hopefully that help is quality mentoring so you can improve and in turm help others some day.

IIRC didn't the Elf Dwarf war almost make the humans extinct? Isn't that one of the reasons that both of the races are friendly toward humans? Not from a standpoint of true friendship but from remorse? Maybe work that in there and how humans are the oldest of the three before they were sent back to the stone age again. Or at least that is what the YinSloth book suggests.

Zer0 Kay wrote:IIRC didn't the Elf Dwarf war almost make the humans extinct? Isn't that one of the reasons that both of the races are friendly toward humans? Not from a standpoint of true friendship but from remorse? Maybe work that in there and how humans are the oldest of the three before they were sent back to the stone age again. Or at least that is what the YinSloth book suggests.

Humans are not the oldest. All Yin-Sloth says is that the Humans are older than widely believed. The Elves and Dwarves still date back to the Age of Chaos. The end of the Chaos War was some 50,000 years ago, the war itself was said to be long, and the age itself was, as I understand it, hundreds of thousands of years long.....

They haven't done it for decades, why start now?

Heck, I remember the first one I had trouble with was before they started using Freelancers... I can't recall the details, but there's a man on the Island of Lemuria who has abilities no man of that island would be allowed under law. Obvious contradiction within the same book. When I brought it up, Bill's line was (approximately) "Use it to expand, rather than pick on the details."

I'm currently running an inter-connected series of adventures based around the ruins of Baalgor. I've interpreted the destruction event as a massively expanded magically charged volcanic eruption that was only stopped when it hit the mountains and rolled the explosion back onto the eruption point, which sealed the bulk of Baalgor under 15-35 feet of magically polluted lava. Up-shot is that the "Poisoned Land" massively increases birth abnormalities (which explains the sudden appearance of ogres as a strong mutation event), trolls (giant off-spring from mutations), gigantes, etc. Also means that (with the exception of the Sandy Desert interior) the rest of ancient Baalgor is sealed beneath metres of contaminated and solidified lava. Trouble is, when the boom went off it hit a defeated Dwarf army (in retreat from Baalgor), a victorious Elf army (hot on their heels), the Elf capital, and all the supporting civilian and military infrastructure. Which means that literally thousands of indestructible magic items (from rune parchment paper through to rune weapons) was buried under magical lava........ cast a detect magic anywhere and be ready to be blinded. Or try an Object Read and have the images of being destroyed by the pyroclastic blast.... insanity saving throws anyone? So the party is having to depend on thinking, researching and adventuring rather than a spell of duex est machina.

The mega-dungeons are about to come in as they finally realize that a whole culture has developed under the lava plate..... rats of amazing size and chaos mutation, elementalist golems still fighting the ancient war because they have no new orders, kobolds tunneling in to loot the remnants, Elf supremists living in shattered kindoms in the western edge mountains, psi weilding Imperial exiles and (of course) the Imperium (Western Empire) watching their every move.

FYI, the party is led by a merchant character and they have a benchmark target of profit per 6 months from the Trade Cartel.... which means Imperial taxes.... which means psionic Imperial tax agents.... and the Inquisition... and etc etc.

Conclusion: Baalgor is a great setting for a mega-dungeon, just use the whole place as the mega-dungeon and have them research/search before they go place to place. It has the added bonus of established colony towns for R&R, level-ups, letters and newspapers from home (great for plot threads), and real 3D colour. My characters were almost weeping when one of their orc guards was killed and most of them joined the orc guard in singing songs to the after-life for the fallen. Even the elf mage actually sat and composed a verse for the fallen orc! Now that's role-playing!

the ancient gamer wrote:

BookWyrm wrote:I have but four words to say;

Grimtooth's. Dungeon. Of. Doom.

Wasn't that originally a Tunnels and Trolls bundle?

I have all those books but those are lethal traps, for the most part.

This thread makes me wish there was a paladium fantasy chat based game on this sight.

I've been a GM 'only' for decades, not looking to run... I have seen no fantasy games in the chat rooms. It's mostly Rifts, Robotech, a game or two not of palladium origin (dont see how thats allowed), and 2 heros games.

SittingBull wrote:I've been a GM 'only' for decades, not looking to run... I have seen no fantasy games in the chat rooms. It's mostly Rifts, Robotech, a game or two not of palladium origin (dont see how thats allowed), and 2 heros games.

There have been a couple Fantasy games here (I know of at least 3 in the last year or so). Mainly the problem is that fantasy is not as popular, and that unless you are doing strict PF it turns into 'rifts with swords' quickly. (or a lot of PF games mutate into rifts when someone decides they need to go get something off dimension)

As for the other game lines, the chat room rules allow anyone to run anything they want, the only rule is that if all the game rooms are full then the non-PB games have to give way to the PB ones (which has not happened in decades)

Just seems if conversions aren't allowed then, if it was me, I wouldn't be allowing competitors games to be played on my chat server. Rifts is ok but is NOT the way for every game to go.

Well I have been stumbling with the Dungeon Designer stuff I bought. I think I am getting to old for this stuff. I just do not understand half the stuff I am looking at. I am shelving this project until such a time as A) one of my children figures out how to use the software and explains it to my old butt or B) My stupid Multiple Sclerosis stops messing with my ability to process information (that is where one of the biggest lesions is located at the moment)

However that being said another irritation has finally led me to start working on a form fillable Palladium Character sheet. I am going to start with Heroes Unlimited first since I consider that sort of the middle ground of power levels in the Megaverse. It will be a form fillable PDF (I am converting it to PDF from open office) I am in the rough stages, but I am going to list off all the skills with checkmarks to indicate they are taken, and then 2 slots to either side with current percentage and +% per level in second slot. I have also compiled a saves table.

Essentially the goal is to make this all available so things are more legible. I have found that trying to read through most players chicken scratch leads to a lot of misunderstandings. This will especially be nice for online games I think.

Posting in the all things palladium board as well.

The Megadungeon idea is not dead just on hold till I can actually script out the dungeon..otherwise I will be sending the Rifter graph paper dungeons with my terrible artwork.

SittingBull wrote:Just seems if conversions aren't allowed then, if it was me, I wouldn't be allowing competitors games to be played on my chat server. Rifts is ok but is NOT the way for every game to go.

You can even play conversion material on the room. You just can not post the rules for it in any format on any official site.

So I could totally play a clone of some character from some book/game/movie/comic/whatever....I just cant put the stats for it up on the website.

xandarr2000 wrote:Well I have been stumbling with the Dungeon Designer stuff I bought. I think I am getting to old for this stuff. I just do not understand half the stuff I am looking at. I am shelving this project until such a time as A) one of my children figures out how to use the software and explains it to my old butt or B) My stupid Multiple Sclerosis stops messing with my ability to process information (that is where one of the biggest lesions is located at the moment).

I feel you on DD. CC3 has a huge learning curve, is not intuitive, and has lots of kinks. But it does produce beautiful maps when you know what you're doing. Sadly I'm only half way there. I love the kids idea.

mirithol wrote:I feel you on DD. CC3 has a huge learning curve, is not intuitive, and has lots of kinks. But it does produce beautiful maps when you know what you're doing. Sadly I'm only half way there. I love the kids idea.

Take a look at my sig. Everything there was done on CC3.

Yeah CC3 does have a learning curve and I've been using it for a long time. My first CC had a 3.5 inch disk and I ran the command to run in DOS! Today I use it rather infrequently so I forget stuff. Their help file works pretty well for me plus over the years, for my games, I would grab existing maps from the Forgotten Realm Atlas, copy the map and make changes. That was CC2. I had to learn the new features in CC3 which involved blending and blurring colors for different effects. Overall I'm happy with CC3/DD as it does what I need. There are also some good youtube video tutorials out there as well.

I generally prefer mapping in graphic editing software like GIMP, Inkscape, and Photoshop; the results tend to be a bit more distinctive. Of course, I haven't played at all with tactical or dungeon mapping yet.

One neat tool I've seen, but haven't yet played with, allows you to take a very simple black and white floor plan and run some scripts to make it look more like an underground dungeon. You can find the script itself here (latest version is on Post 62), and a pretty good walkthrough of how to use it here.

Those tools should give you enough for making your basic layout look pretty good. Things like torches, firepits, forges, beds, corpses, statues, tables, chairs, altars, and other things involve more work, but you can find a lot of images for those sorts of things on DeviantArt.

Ok, I couldn't resist giving it a try. I took the Type 1 fort out of Old Ones, p130 (2nd ed). After stripping out the doors, numbers, and stairs, I simplified it to a simple black and white map and ran it through the script's default settings. The result looks pretty good, and this took me all of about 10 minutes (not counting the download and installation time for the script).