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Killer Cyborg wrote:The single best idea that I've heard for a while is for Palladium to try to get into the Kindle Worlds program, which would allow people to write and sell ebook Palladium fan-fiction, with Palladium dictating the terms/parameters of the fiction (i.e., no porn), and getting a cut of the profit.
IF Palladium could get in, then by my understanding, all they'd have to do afterward would be to sit back and collect the money while other people did the work.
-Amazon would police the story content just as it does with its other ebooks, without Palladium staff having to expend any significant manpower.
-Writers would write on their own time, without Palladium having to pay them a cent.
-Amazon AND the writers would promote the product, without Palladium having to put in any money.

The most commonly-occuring complaint about Palladium over the years (specifically Rifts) is that while people LOVE the setting and worlds that Palladium has created, the actual mechanics can be confusing and alienating, especially since there is a lack of customer service to answer questions.
The next most common complaint is that Palladium doesn't create new product fast enough.
Kindle Worlds Fan-fiction would allow for Palladium to capitalize number one asset (their settings), without spending any time or money once things get started, and it would help fulfill the fans' hunger for constant new product. Which would quite probably help stir up forum traffic, because there'd always be new stuff to talk about.

Granted, not all of the product would be GREAT product... but because of the nature of this product (i.e., non-canon fan-fiction that Palladium did not write), shoddy product wouldn't affect Palladium's brand any more than shoddy GI-JOE fan-fiction will hurt that brand.
At the same time, Palladium would be able to get some level of credit for the really good stuff, because it's their setting.
And if their contracts are like some of the other KW ones I've seen, they'd have rights to use any characters/ideas/whatever that they liked from the fan-fiction, turning it official. So if Josh Hilden wrote a KW novel that took off like wildfire, Palladium could then take the main characters from that fan-fiction novel, and they could publish an official book with those characters in it.

For the companies involved in the KW program, it seems like it's essentially all gain with no downside.
It may or may not be an incredible amount of gain, but I think it would be significant, especially with the low initial costs/effort involved, and the potential long-term gains.

Asterios wrote:I doubt Palladium Books would do this since they would not have any "real" control over what is written other then in a set of guidlines, and from what I'v e seen Palladium wants the control, total control.

Wooly wrote:Killer Cyborg introduced me to Kindle Worlds with the post above. I think it is a topic worthy of its own thread. I hadn't heard of Kindle Worlds before and there already some heavy hitter IPs involved. Namely GI Joe, Veronica Mars, and the Wool saga of post apoc fiction. Currently there are 46 "worlds" for writers to submit to. So if Palladium were to add its IPs they would be getting in of the ground floor.

Since Amazon enforces the guidelines IP holders set I don't see any real downsides. Such a venture could be an additional source of revenue for Palladium and help to introduce Palladiums' worlds to new audiences.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Asterios wrote:I doubt Palladium Books would do this since they would not have any "real" control over what is written other then in a set of guidlines, and from what I'v e seen Palladium wants the control, total control.

You might be right, but I would consider such thinking to be inaccurate.
Kindle Worlds is fan-fiction.
Palladium has no control over fan-fiction NOW, and they make no money off of it.

Some control and some money is better than no control and no money.

Also, the guidelines can get very specific. The GI-Joe guidelines includes stuff like "The character, Snake Eyes, shall never be depicted or described as a fan of the New York Yankees."
That's pretty darned specific.

Asterios wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Asterios wrote:I doubt Palladium Books would do this since they would not have any "real" control over what is written other then in a set of guidlines, and from what I'v e seen Palladium wants the control, total control.

You might be right, but I would consider such thinking to be inaccurate.
Kindle Worlds is fan-fiction.
Palladium has no control over fan-fiction NOW, and they make no money off of it.

Some control and some money is better than no control and no money.

Also, the guidelines can get very specific. The GI-Joe guidelines includes stuff like "The character, Snake Eyes, shall never be depicted or described as a fan of the New York Yankees."
That's pretty darned specific.

the thing is, if any money is to be made off it, Palladium wants that control, what people do in their own time and such is on them, but if they are going to make money off it, then Palladium wants the say in it and full control of it.

As to Snake Eyes and them damn Yankees, there is a story behind that one. and besides which he's a Red Sox fan anyway .

Also i think Palladium books has an addendum that any and all fan work becomes sole property of theirs when it comes to their Rifts world and such.

Josh Hilden wrote:

Asterios wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Asterios wrote:I doubt Palladium Books would do this since they would not have any "real" control over what is written other then in a set of guidlines, and from what I'v e seen Palladium wants the control, total control.

You might be right, but I would consider such thinking to be inaccurate.
Kindle Worlds is fan-fiction.
Palladium has no control over fan-fiction NOW, and they make no money off of it.

Some control and some money is better than no control and no money.

Also, the guidelines can get very specific. The GI-Joe guidelines includes stuff like "The character, Snake Eyes, shall never be depicted or described as a fan of the New York Yankees."
That's pretty darned specific.

the thing is, if any money is to be made off it, Palladium wants that control, what people do in their own time and such is on them, but if they are going to make money off it, then Palladium wants the say in it and full control of it.

As to Snake Eyes and them damn Yankees, there is a story behind that one. and besides which he's a Red Sox fan anyway .

Also i think Palladium books has an addendum that any and all fan work becomes sole property of theirs when it comes to their Rifts world and such.

I don't know, I think the licensing for Savage Worlds to Pinnacle might indicate he's loosened up on the control aspect a bit. I take it as a positive sign.

Asterios wrote:thing is we have yet to see something of that, so until thats a done deal with things out and all I'm not calling anything on that yet.

Josh Hilden wrote:

Asterios wrote:thing is we have yet to see something of that, so until thats a done deal with things out and all I'm not calling anything on that yet.

I get that but I know some of the guys working on it and it's moving at a good clip. Like I said I'm taking it as a good sign considering the reputation and track record of the people involved.

Pinnacle Entertainment, the publishers of Savage Worlds, Lankhmar: City of Thieves and Deadlands have entered into a licensing agreement with Palladium Books to produce an edition of the Rifts roleplaying game for the Savage Worlds rules. No date for the release of this new game has yet been announced by Pinnacle Entertainment or Palladium Books. Word is that development has already started on adapting the worlds of Rifts to Savage Worlds.

Asterios wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Asterios wrote:I doubt Palladium Books would do this since they would not have any "real" control over what is written other then in a set of guidlines, and from what I'v e seen Palladium wants the control, total control.

You might be right, but I would consider such thinking to be inaccurate.
Kindle Worlds is fan-fiction.
Palladium has no control over fan-fiction NOW, and they make no money off of it.

Some control and some money is better than no control and no money.

Also, the guidelines can get very specific. The GI-Joe guidelines includes stuff like "The character, Snake Eyes, shall never be depicted or described as a fan of the New York Yankees."
That's pretty darned specific.

the thing is, if any money is to be made off it, Palladium wants that control, what people do in their own time and such is on them, but if they are going to make money off it, then Palladium wants the say in it and full control of it.

Also i think Palladium books has an addendum that any and all fan work becomes sole property of theirs when it comes to their Rifts world and such.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Asterios wrote:Also i think Palladium books has an addendum that any and all fan work becomes sole property of theirs when it comes to their Rifts world and such.

Never heard of that.

Asterios wrote:

Josh Hilden wrote:

Asterios wrote:thing is we have yet to see something of that, so until thats a done deal with things out and all I'm not calling anything on that yet.

I get that but I know some of the guys working on it and it's moving at a good clip. Like I said I'm taking it as a good sign considering the reputation and track record of the people involved.

Good maybe you could explain this note Pinnacle sent out then:

Pinnacle Entertainment, the publishers of Savage Worlds, Lankhmar: City of Thieves and Deadlands have entered into a licensing agreement with Palladium Books to produce an edition of the Rifts roleplaying game for the Savage Worlds rules. No date for the release of this new game has yet been announced by Pinnacle Entertainment or Palladium Books. Word is that development has already started on adapting the worlds of Rifts to Savage Worlds.

are they making a rule book for Rifts using their game system?

and why didn't Palladium ever do the d20 system?

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Asterios wrote:

Josh Hilden wrote:

Asterios wrote:thing is we have yet to see something of that, so until thats a done deal with things out and all I'm not calling anything on that yet.

I get that but I know some of the guys working on it and it's moving at a good clip. Like I said I'm taking it as a good sign considering the reputation and track record of the people involved.

Good maybe you could explain this note Pinnacle sent out then:

Pinnacle Entertainment, the publishers of Savage Worlds, Lankhmar: City of Thieves and Deadlands have entered into a licensing agreement with Palladium Books to produce an edition of the Rifts roleplaying game for the Savage Worlds rules. No date for the release of this new game has yet been announced by Pinnacle Entertainment or Palladium Books. Word is that development has already started on adapting the worlds of Rifts to Savage Worlds.

are they making a rule book for Rifts using their game system?

My understanding--based on the clip you posted, and on similar public announcements--is that Pinnacle is going to make a Savage Worlds version of Rifts. Like how Steve Jackson Games made a GURPS version of Vampire: The Masquerade, and of Bunnies & Burrows.
Just a translation of the setting, classes, characters, story, etc. into a different rules system.

and why didn't Palladium ever do the d20 system?

IIRC, it was due to Palladium disliking the OGL contracts. I think they were afraid that signing it would be giving up their rights or something.
It was discussed here a number of times, and you could probably find the old conversations if you searched the forums.

I always thought that Palladium should go the other way, and do their own version of the OGL, allowing people to write original work using the Palladium system.
Which, come to think of it, they might be able to do using Kindle Worlds.
No RPG has become part of the KW program that I know of, and IF Palladium wanted to, they could probably allow not just fan fiction, but also fan-created creatures, stats, rules, and other stuff. Similar to the Rifter content. There's a possibility for fan World Books, or Dimension Books, or Sourcebooks, or whatever--content that Palladium could simultaneously profit, and disavow themselves from.

UNSOLICITED MANUSCRIPT, IDEA, AND ARTWORK AGREEMENT

Every week, Palladium Books, Inc. ("Palladium"), receives a number of unsolicited manuscripts, ideas, and/or art works. It is Palladium's policy not to accept these works unless the person submitting them agrees to the terms stated in this agreement (see below).

By signing this Agreement, you agree that Palladium is not in any position of confidential trust with you. You also agree to release and hold harmless Palladium, its agents and employees, against any claim of infringement of copyright rights, trademark rights, or other intellectual property rights in any way related to your submission. By way of example, but not limitation, Palladium's receipt and review of your materials does not prevent Palladium from developing or publishing any similar work. Nor does Palladium become an agent of fiduciary of yours relative to these works.

You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium until Palladium advises you that your works have been rejected if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject your works.

In addition, if Palladium ever accepts your works for publication, you will agree to assign any and all copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights to Palladium, in exchange for Palladium's standard payment.

If you wish Palladium to consider your submission on the terms stated above, please sign and return a copy of this document.

In any case, we thank you for your interest in Palladium, and wish you the best in your future endeavors.

/s/ W. Smith

Wayne Smith
Rifter Editor
Palladium Books, Inc.

Josh Hilden wrote:UGH, okay here are the problems I've ALWAYS had with that... agreement.

1. there's no time frame, look at the bulk of unsolicited work agreements and you'll see a time frame before the agreement expires. One year is the unofficial standard with up to 5 years not being unheard of. They can't hold your work in perpetuity without compensation period. Even if you can only post if for free as fan work it's still your's and not theirs.

2. If they choose NOT to take the unsolicited work they can't make ANY claims to things you've created as original works even if they were incorporated with IP specific things. It's perfectly legal to strip out IP specifics and reword to publish as your own original work.

You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium until Palladium advises you that your works have been rejected if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject your works.

Asterios wrote:Good maybe you could explain this note Pinnacle sent out then:

Pinnacle Entertainment, the publishers of Savage Worlds, Lankhmar: City of Thieves and Deadlands have entered into a licensing agreement with Palladium Books to produce an edition of the Rifts roleplaying game for the Savage Worlds rules. No date for the release of this new game has yet been announced by Pinnacle Entertainment or Palladium Books. Word is that development has already started on adapting the worlds of Rifts to Savage Worlds.

are they making a rule book for Rifts using their game system? or are they making a rule book for their system using the Rift's world? and why didn't Palladium ever do the d20 system?

Shawn Merrow wrote:

Asterios wrote:Good maybe you could explain this note Pinnacle sent out then:

Pinnacle Entertainment, the publishers of Savage Worlds, Lankhmar: City of Thieves and Deadlands have entered into a licensing agreement with Palladium Books to produce an edition of the Rifts roleplaying game for the Savage Worlds rules. No date for the release of this new game has yet been announced by Pinnacle Entertainment or Palladium Books. Word is that development has already started on adapting the worlds of Rifts to Savage Worlds.

are they making a rule book for Rifts using their game system? or are they making a rule book for their system using the Rift's world? and why didn't Palladium ever do the d20 system?

Pinnacle Entertainment is making Rifts books using the Savage Worlds rule system. They ran demos of it at Gen Con, so it is already in development.

Asterios wrote:

Josh Hilden wrote:

Asterios wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Asterios wrote:I doubt Palladium Books would do this since they would not have any "real" control over what is written other then in a set of guidlines, and from what I'v e seen Palladium wants the control, total control.

You might be right, but I would consider such thinking to be inaccurate.
Kindle Worlds is fan-fiction.
Palladium has no control over fan-fiction NOW, and they make no money off of it.

Some control and some money is better than no control and no money.

Also, the guidelines can get very specific. The GI-Joe guidelines includes stuff like "The character, Snake Eyes, shall never be depicted or described as a fan of the New York Yankees."
That's pretty darned specific.

the thing is, if any money is to be made off it, Palladium wants that control, what people do in their own time and such is on them, but if they are going to make money off it, then Palladium wants the say in it and full control of it.

As to Snake Eyes and them damn Yankees, there is a story behind that one. and besides which he's a Red Sox fan anyway .

Also i think Palladium books has an addendum that any and all fan work becomes sole property of theirs when it comes to their Rifts world and such.

I don't know, I think the licensing for Savage Worlds to Pinnacle might indicate he's loosened up on the control aspect a bit. I take it as a positive sign.

thing is we have yet to see something of that, so until thats a done deal with things out and all I'm not calling anything on that yet.

Asterios wrote:

Shawn Merrow wrote:

Asterios wrote:Good maybe you could explain this note Pinnacle sent out then:

Pinnacle Entertainment, the publishers of Savage Worlds, Lankhmar: City of Thieves and Deadlands have entered into a licensing agreement with Palladium Books to produce an edition of the Rifts roleplaying game for the Savage Worlds rules. No date for the release of this new game has yet been announced by Pinnacle Entertainment or Palladium Books. Word is that development has already started on adapting the worlds of Rifts to Savage Worlds.

are they making a rule book for Rifts using their game system? or are they making a rule book for their system using the Rift's world? and why didn't Palladium ever do the d20 system?

Pinnacle Entertainment is making Rifts books using the Savage Worlds rule system. They ran demos of it at Gen Con, so it is already in development.

but under whos banner? Palladium Books or Savage Worlds?

Reagren Wright wrote:If this happens, I have completed material for Heroes, Nightbane, and Fantasy just sitting on my computers waiting for an
opportunity just like this . Cross fingers

The Galactus Kid wrote:I'm not as big of a fan of Hammer of the Forge as others. I personally don't think it is an ideal representation of the company.

Asterios wrote:

Shawn Merrow wrote:

Asterios wrote:Good maybe you could explain this note Pinnacle sent out then:

Pinnacle Entertainment, the publishers of Savage Worlds, Lankhmar: City of Thieves and Deadlands have entered into a licensing agreement with Palladium Books to produce an edition of the Rifts roleplaying game for the Savage Worlds rules. No date for the release of this new game has yet been announced by Pinnacle Entertainment or Palladium Books. Word is that development has already started on adapting the worlds of Rifts to Savage Worlds.

are they making a rule book for Rifts using their game system? or are they making a rule book for their system using the Rift's world? and why didn't Palladium ever do the d20 system?

Pinnacle Entertainment is making Rifts books using the Savage Worlds rule system. They ran demos of it at Gen Con, so it is already in development.

but under whos banner? Palladium Books or Savage Worlds?

Shawn Merrow wrote:

Asterios wrote:

Shawn Merrow wrote:

Asterios wrote:Good maybe you could explain this note Pinnacle sent out then:

Pinnacle Entertainment, the publishers of Savage Worlds, Lankhmar: City of Thieves and Deadlands have entered into a licensing agreement with Palladium Books to produce an edition of the Rifts roleplaying game for the Savage Worlds rules. No date for the release of this new game has yet been announced by Pinnacle Entertainment or Palladium Books. Word is that development has already started on adapting the worlds of Rifts to Savage Worlds.

are they making a rule book for Rifts using their game system? or are they making a rule book for their system using the Rift's world? and why didn't Palladium ever do the d20 system?

Pinnacle Entertainment is making Rifts books using the Savage Worlds rule system. They ran demos of it at Gen Con, so it is already in development.

but under whos banner? Palladium Books or Savage Worlds?

Savage Worlds is a rule system, the company publishing the books will be Pinnacle Entertainment.

Asterios wrote:Ahhh, so we should see this soon, instead of the usual from Palladium then ?

Shark_Force wrote:

Asterios wrote:Ahhh, so we should see this soon, instead of the usual from Palladium then ?

dunno, really. i think i recall them saying they'd *like* it to be done in time for christmas. we'll see if that happens (also, i might be completely misrepresenting what they said on the matter, and their actual goal may have been later. or earlier. or never stated publicly at all).

Also i think Palladium books has an addendum that any and all fan work becomes sole property of theirs when it comes to their Rifts world and such

Ultimately, I'm not sure if entering the KW program is up to Palladium, or if Amazon would have to seek them out, or what, but I think that it's certainly worth looking into.

and why didn't Palladium ever do the d20 system?

Hammer of the Forge

Savage Worlds Rifts Book

Spinachcat wrote:Kindle Worlds seems like a great idea.

Anyone talk to Kevin about it?