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Ok, so a buddy and I were having a discussion of Technowizardry, and we wondered; Would it be possible for a culture to not only use technowizardry as a supplement to modern technology, but as a near (or complete) replacement for it? Using technowizard devices in all the places where we on Earth use electrical appliances and technology. The way we see it, this essentially boiled down to 2 major questions:

Question the First: Could a Technowizard device be "always on"?

Ok, so a majority of TW devices only need to be "on" some of the time, like a flashlight or a TW water purifier (I forget which book I saw those in, one of the jungle based source books) but, in order to actually serve a purpose, some things (such as a refrigerator) would need to be on and functioning all the time. Obviously many of the devices consciously used during the course of a game might become desperately OP if this were applied to them, so it would likely only apply to those devices that basically have to be running all the time, such as my earlier example of a refrigerator (no point if it just works for a few minutes and then stops being cold, thus rotting all your food! You want it running all the time, as long as there's a power supply)

Question the Second: How to power these things?

In many cases, PPE batteries can be used in order to make things run, but I never figured out how to make those (what spells and gems would you need? I'm still fairly new to constructing TW devices) but in others, here's the idea we had; Can PPE be "sucked out of the air" constantly, kind of like how machines are powered by solar power? And if it can, can it be channelled through things like wire, in a similar way to how electricity is generated at dedicated power stations, and then pumped through the power grid into people's houses? If it cannot (or - if it's never expressly covered in the source material - if it doesn't seem like it conceivably could) that's kind of a shame, because it'd require PPE to be used to generate conventional electricity at "power stations", which is then used on a traditional power grid, which sort of takes away from the "nothing runs on conventional technology" flavour we were hoping for.

You can make a TW device Ley Line Powered to be always "on", but that requires the device to be on/near a Ley Line. Getting close to Bio-Wizard/Rune magic it is possible to enslave an entity to act as an energy source so it can always be on (at least one example requires recharging every so often).

PPE Batteries can be made via Talisman spell or Energy Sphere Spell, some gems can naturally be used to store PPE (Diamonds are one, plus another).

As far as transmission, it might be possible, but very difficult (IIRC SoT#6).

ShadowLogan wrote:As far as transmission, it might be possible, but very difficult (IIRC SoT#6).

Forgive me if I'm being monumentally stupid, but what does SoT stand for?

PalladiumBrony wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:As far as transmission, it might be possible, but very difficult (IIRC SoT#6).

Forgive me if I'm being monumentally stupid, but what does SoT stand for?

Siege on Tolkeen--the Rifts Metaplot books. Tolkeen was pretty heavy on Techno-wizardy.

also: no, TW decives explictly cannot just "Pull PPE from the air". They can only do this on Ley lines or Nexii. But there's not much limit to how far they can transfer that power from said ley line once they have it.

Why is it here, in this forum?

No TW magic items are never always on, as a general rule.
They are LL items that could be 'always on' if they remained on a LL. like the TW generator (electricity).

For always on you have to look to normal magic items made by an alchemist, or specialty/unique magic items.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Why is it here, in this forum?

No TW magic items are never always on, as a general rule.
They are LL items that could be 'always on' if they remained on a LL. like the TW generator (electricity).

For always on you have to look to normal magic items made by an alchemist, or specialty/unique magic items.

I assumed he was looking to plant a TW kingdom in Palladium Fantasy.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Why is it here, in this forum?

No TW magic items are never always on, as a general rule.
They are LL items that could be 'always on' if they remained on a LL. like the TW generator (electricity).

For always on you have to look to normal magic items made by an alchemist, or specialty/unique magic items.

TW Iron Juggernauts (Seige on Tolkeen series)
TW Locomotive (New West)
TW Horse (New West, grant it needs to be recharged periodically every several months)
Manoan TW 'bot/PA (SA1, grant it needs to be recharged but it can run for days straight which is still better than the typical TW device)

These devices are TW, and can run for very long periods of time (multiple days or longer), that hardly requires specialty/unique magic.

ShadowLogan wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Why is it here, in this forum?

No TW magic items are never always on, as a general rule.
They are LL items that could be 'always on' if they remained on a LL. like the TW generator (electricity).

For always on you have to look to normal magic items made by an alchemist, or specialty/unique magic items.

TW Iron Juggernauts (Seige on Tolkeen series)
TW Locomotive (New West)
TW Horse (New West, grant it needs to be recharged periodically every several months)
Manoan TW 'bot/PA (SA1, grant it needs to be recharged but it can run for days straight which is still better than the typical TW device)

These devices are TW, and can run for very long periods of time (multiple days or longer), that hardly requires specialty/unique magic.

You do realize none of those actually prove him wrong, right? The first two are run off of captive supernatural beings for constant recharging, the others just have longer than normal run times. the "General Rule" implies there are occasional edge cases.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Why is it here, in this forum?

No TW magic items are never always on, as a general rule.
They are LL items that could be 'always on' if they remained on a LL. like the TW generator (electricity).

For always on you have to look to normal magic items made by an alchemist, or specialty/unique magic items.

TW Iron Juggernauts (Seige on Tolkeen series)
TW Locomotive (New West)
TW Horse (New West, grant it needs to be recharged periodically every several months)
Manoan TW 'bot/PA (SA1, grant it needs to be recharged but it can run for days straight which is still better than the typical TW device)

These devices are TW, and can run for very long periods of time (multiple days or longer), that hardly requires specialty/unique magic.

You do realize none of those actually prove him wrong, right? The first two are run off of captive supernatural beings for constant recharging, the others just have longer than normal run times. the "General Rule" implies there are occasional edge cases.

And I would also note that the first THREE have a living being as part of the design....
And the Manoan TW device is explicitly said to use an exotic, specialized form of hybrid TW/Stone magic that no one else can replicate...which is sort of the definition of specialty magic.....

Is there any reason why you couldn't combine one spell with the duration of the amulet spell to make a TV device that is always on until destroyed?

Godslayer wrote:Is there any reason why you couldn't combine one spell with the duration of the amulet spell to make a TV device that is always on until destroyed?

Does it have to be a TW magic item? Why not just make an always on traditional magic item? (which can be done.)
However, always on magic effects are like the magical enhancements attached to armor or weapons, found in the PF2 main book. They are not very munchkiny.

Besides having a TV that is always on is soo very Max Headroom.
(Cultural joke for those of a certain age. )

In my opinion the basic premise is wrong. I think that Techno-Wizardry as put forth in Rifts is a lame track. Instead of replacing technology with magic, a TW should look at how to use magic to improve technology.

I think it kinda does both...though I understand your interpretation.

Most TW's I have in my games (NPC or PC for that matter) are focused on non-combat stuff. They want to improve people's lives with their skill. One of the first things our TW invented was a cup that filled with coffee, tea or water depending on the amount of PPE you spent.

he made a water purifier, he made a food dispenser, teleporting doors, hoverboards all kinds of stuff. He made a doorway that was a shower, just cleansed you as you walked into his shop. Of course, he made his fortune constructing weapons, but that's the sad fate of a lot of inventors.

Imagine rebuilding a SAMAS with a TW where the jet engine components are impervious to heat so you don't have to stop and cool down every two hours. You could do the same thing for an internal combustion engine. A rifle where the barrel, breach and bolt are indestructible.

Something tells me that 'Red SAMAS' that Babylonian God guy has, probably has just that very feature. That and some kind of speedbooster probably explains how the CS haven't managed to flank him.

Always-on is more the realm of the Cybermage (Nightbane: Through the Glass Darkly), who edges on the border of rune magic since this involves incorporating living beings into it.

That said, I don't know if there's anything preventing a Diabolist's Permanence Ward (Palladium Fantasy) from making magic from a TW device permanent. If this is possible, odds are someone in Kingsdale has done it.

Tor wrote:Something tells me that 'Red SAMAS' that Babylonian God guy has, probably has just that very feature. That and some kind of speedbooster probably explains how the CS haven't managed to flank him.

Always-on is more the realm of the Cybermage (Nightbane: Through the Glass Darkly), who edges on the border of rune magic since this involves incorporating living beings into it.

That said, I don't know if there's anything preventing a Diabolist's Permanence Ward (Palladium Fantasy) from making magic from a TW device permanent. If this is possible, odds are someone in Kingsdale has done it.

Maybe no-one thought of it. As I have said before TWs in Rifts are more focused on replacing Technology with magic.

There has to be away other than a permanence ward to permanently enchant items? I know that they are deliberately vague in how you make magic items or enchant objects because they don't want players making magic items willy nilly, but there has to be away.

SpiritInterface wrote:

Tor wrote:Something tells me that 'Red SAMAS' that Babylonian God guy has, probably has just that very feature. That and some kind of speedbooster probably explains how the CS haven't managed to flank him.

Always-on is more the realm of the Cybermage (Nightbane: Through the Glass Darkly), who edges on the border of rune magic since this involves incorporating living beings into it.

That said, I don't know if there's anything preventing a Diabolist's Permanence Ward (Palladium Fantasy) from making magic from a TW device permanent. If this is possible, odds are someone in Kingsdale has done it.

Maybe no-one thought of it. As I have said before TWs in Rifts are more focused on replacing Technology with magic.

There has to be away other than a permanence ward to permanently enchant items? I know that they are deliberately vague in how you make magic items or enchant objects because they don't want players making magic items willy nilly, but there has to be away.

A ward could make the effect (i.e. the spell cast) by a TW device permanent, assuming that the spell effect complies with the normal rules on diabolist wards of course. But that wouldn't let you, for instance make a TK machine gun that has infinite ammunition (at least with out introducing a house rule to make a modification to the way TW works and/or how Wards work)
Officially in game there is also a Nazca Line Drawing secret pattern that can make magic permanent, and a soulmancy spell in Megaverse in Flames that can make magic permanent.

eliakon wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:

Tor wrote:Something tells me that 'Red SAMAS' that Babylonian God guy has, probably has just that very feature. That and some kind of speedbooster probably explains how the CS haven't managed to flank him.

Always-on is more the realm of the Cybermage (Nightbane: Through the Glass Darkly), who edges on the border of rune magic since this involves incorporating living beings into it.

That said, I don't know if there's anything preventing a Diabolist's Permanence Ward (Palladium Fantasy) from making magic from a TW device permanent. If this is possible, odds are someone in Kingsdale has done it.

Maybe no-one thought of it. As I have said before TWs in Rifts are more focused on replacing Technology with magic.

There has to be away other than a permanence ward to permanently enchant items? I know that they are deliberately vague in how you make magic items or enchant objects because they don't want players making magic items willy nilly, but there has to be away.

A ward could make the effect (i.e. the spell cast) by a TW device permanent, assuming that the spell effect complies with the normal rules on diabolist wards of course. But that wouldn't let you, for instance make a TK machine gun that has infinite ammunition (at least with out introducing a house rule to make a modification to the way TW works and/or how Wards work)
Officially in game there is also a Nazca Line Drawing secret pattern that can make magic permanent, and a soulmancy spell in Megaverse in Flames that can make magic permanent.

There has to be away to make magic permanent other than the ward or line drawings!!! Otherwise there can't be magic swords, or other magic items. There has to be a simple away to enchant materials and items permanently.

SpiritInterface wrote:

eliakon wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:

Tor wrote:Something tells me that 'Red SAMAS' that Babylonian God guy has, probably has just that very feature. That and some kind of speedbooster probably explains how the CS haven't managed to flank him.

Always-on is more the realm of the Cybermage (Nightbane: Through the Glass Darkly), who edges on the border of rune magic since this involves incorporating living beings into it.

That said, I don't know if there's anything preventing a Diabolist's Permanence Ward (Palladium Fantasy) from making magic from a TW device permanent. If this is possible, odds are someone in Kingsdale has done it.

Maybe no-one thought of it. As I have said before TWs in Rifts are more focused on replacing Technology with magic.

There has to be away other than a permanence ward to permanently enchant items? I know that they are deliberately vague in how you make magic items or enchant objects because they don't want players making magic items willy nilly, but there has to be away.

A ward could make the effect (i.e. the spell cast) by a TW device permanent, assuming that the spell effect complies with the normal rules on diabolist wards of course. But that wouldn't let you, for instance make a TK machine gun that has infinite ammunition (at least with out introducing a house rule to make a modification to the way TW works and/or how Wards work)
Officially in game there is also a Nazca Line Drawing secret pattern that can make magic permanent, and a soulmancy spell in Megaverse in Flames that can make magic permanent.

There has to be away to make magic permanent other than the ward or line drawings!!! Otherwise there can't be magic swords, or other magic items. There has to be a simple away to enchant materials and items permanently.

Well to make specific permanent items you can use Herbal Magic, Mystic Kunznya, Cybermancer, Techno-Smithy, Rune Smiths, any of a number of spells that make a specific magic item (amulet, create bone scepter, etc), and the like. But those are more of "you can make item X that has properties Y and maybe Z". There are very few ways to make non formuletic magic items. And that appears to be an intentional design consideration of the setting.
This is reflected in the fact that magic items in Palladium that do not fall into those proscribed classes are rare. There isn't a simple way to do it, because in this setting there doesn't need to be a simple way.

Tor wrote:snip...
That said, I don't know if there's anything preventing a Diabolist's Permanence Ward (Palladium Fantasy) from making magic from a TW device permanent. If this is possible, odds are someone in Kingsdale has done it.

There is nothing that would be an impediment to making the magic from a TW magic item permanent other then the Duration of the magic.
Yes, 'from' is the key word. As in the magic produced from the TW magic item, where the magic produced is separate from the Magic Item after the effect is produced.

Unless you have a Create Ammo spell that has a duration greater then 'instant', a Machinegun that uses TK to throw projectiles with an infinite ammo is not possible with a permanency ward.

The "normal" TW TK-MG can't be modified to have infinite ward ether cause the bolts are instant effects.

SpiritInterface wrote:Maybe no-one thought of it. As I have said before TWs in Rifts are more focused on replacing Technology with magic.

I don't buy it, Diabolists and Techno-Wizards are far more clever and inventive than I am.

SpiritInterface wrote:There has to be away to make magic permanent other than the ward or line drawings!!! Otherwise there can't be magic swords, or other magic items. There has to be a simple away to enchant materials and items permanently.

TTGD rules can extend duration to a high enough level for the effect but it requires a lot of proper rolls.

Always good to keep in mind if a supernatural creature wants to be permanently enchanetd since they can't use perm wards on themself.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Unless you have a Create Ammo spell that has a duration greater then 'instant', a Machinegun that uses TK to throw projectiles with an infinite ammo is not possible with a permanency ward.

A TK Machinegun doesn't have an 'instant' duration though, it has a 'duration of charge' of a given number of blasts per spell, and the TK spell has a duration so if you permanence-warded the TK spell you used to recharge it, could it be used at will to reload it?

Tor wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:There has to be away to make magic permanent other than the ward or line drawings!!! Otherwise there can't be magic swords, or other magic items. There has to be a simple away to enchant materials and items permanently.

TTGD rules can extend duration to a high enough level for the effect but it requires a lot of proper rolls.
Always good to keep in mind if a supernatural creature wants to be permanently enchanetd since they can't use perm wards on themself.

Yes, assuming you use the rules in TTGD, and assuming that you do assume that you can make it permanent as an option. Then yes, theoretically you can make a version of a spell that is permanent.....assuming of course that the individual GM doesn't say "nope, not in this game." or "Well sure....but the spell requires a material component....a special symbol carved from dragon bone sewn onto the subject......"

Tor wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Unless you have a Create Ammo spell that has a duration greater then 'instant', a Machinegun that uses TK to throw projectiles with an infinite ammo is not possible with a permanency ward.

A TK Machinegun doesn't have an 'instant' duration though, it has a 'duration of charge' of a given number of blasts per spell, and the TK spell has a duration so if you permanence-warded the TK spell you used to recharge it, could it be used at will to reload it?

Not as written. You don't cast a TK spell, and then use that spell to reload the machine gun. You cast the spell into the machine gun and instead of actually taking effect it 'turns into' ammunition.
Casting a TK spell before hand will not allow you to reload the machine gun, and thus neither will a permanent spell of TK.
Now yes, assuming the GM allows it a TW could, theoretically make a new device that capitalizes on a permanence ward to have infinite ammunition. There is even precedent for this. Of course the precedent also says that hybridizing TW with a second form of magic to work together takes centuries of special research to do and is so highly specialized and arcane that normal TWs can not replicate it....but it is still theoretically possible.

TTGD???

SpiritInterface wrote:TTGD???

Through the Glass Darkly. A Nightbane sourcebook, and a really excellent source of ideas on magic.

Tor wrote:snip...

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Unless you have a Create Ammo spell that has a duration greater then 'instant', a Machinegun that uses TK to throw projectiles with an infinite ammo is not possible with a permanency ward.

A TK Machinegun doesn't have an 'instant' duration though, it has a 'duration of charge' of a given number of blasts per spell, and the TK spell has a duration so if you permanence-warded the TK spell you used to recharge it, could it be used at will to reload it?

*wonders why Tor is talking about oranges when I was talking about apples*
I did define what I was talking about. Even so, with old school TW magic item the casting of the spell refills the magic item's payload. The effect the ether type of TK_MG (slug thrower or bolt maker) is an instant effect.

I tend to think of TW as similar being somewhat similar to shows like Junkyard Wars*. You have a goal of what you are trying to make, and you've got a collection of tools with which to make it (not just the physical components, but also the spells... think of those as being the engines). Now, how you go from a collection of parts to a finished product is an idiosyncratic process, but the truth is that the end result can easily be more than the sum of the parts. You are, essentially, making a brand new spell out of physical and metaphysical objects... but that spell, because it's TW, can only function in the context of the physical object you create.

Picture, for a moment, a TW who has an electrical engine. Now, the standard solution is to replace the electrical engine with one powered by Call Lightning. But he wants to give this to his friend, Bernie the Psychic Socialist. Bernie can't cast Call Lightning. So, our TW friend makes another device which, when charged with ISP (30 ISP, since it's generally PPE*2), will cast Call Lightning on the engine. Now, this device he made won't let Bernie run around throwing Call Lightning for the cost of 30 ISP... if Bernie rips the converter off the engine and tries that, it will break the "spell" formed by the physical object. But if he uses it as intended, then he can keep his electrical engine going as long as no one blows it up.

*I had a typo that make this Junkyard Wards, which is hilarious in context.

Mark Hall wrote:I tend to think of TW as similar being somewhat similar to shows like Junkyard Wars*. You have a goal of what you are trying to make, and you've got a collection of tools with which to make it (not just the physical components, but also the spells... think of those as being the engines). Now, how you go from a collection of parts to a finished product is an idiosyncratic process, but the truth is that the end result can easily be more than the sum of the parts. You are, essentially, making a brand new spell out of physical and metaphysical objects... but that spell, because it's TW, can only function in the context of the physical object you create.

Picture, for a moment, a TW who has an electrical engine. Now, the standard solution is to replace the electrical engine with one powered by Call Lightning. But he wants to give this to his friend, Bernie the Psychic Socialist. Bernie can't cast Call Lightning. So, our TW friend makes another device which, when charged with ISP (30 ISP, since it's generally PPE*2), will cast Call Lightning on the engine. Now, this device he made won't let Bernie run around throwing Call Lightning for the cost of 30 ISP... if Bernie rips the converter off the engine and tries that, it will break the "spell" formed by the physical object. But if he uses it as intended, then he can keep his electrical engine going as long as no one blows it up.

*I had a typo that make this Junkyard Wards, which is hilarious in context.

So you are saying that TWs are just a bunch of bodgers?

SpiritInterface wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:I tend to think of TW as similar being somewhat similar to shows like Junkyard Wars*. You have a goal of what you are trying to make, and you've got a collection of tools with which to make it (not just the physical components, but also the spells... think of those as being the engines). Now, how you go from a collection of parts to a finished product is an idiosyncratic process, but the truth is that the end result can easily be more than the sum of the parts. You are, essentially, making a brand new spell out of physical and metaphysical objects... but that spell, because it's TW, can only function in the context of the physical object you create.

So you are saying that TWs are just a bunch of bodgers?

Pretty much, yeah. Only they're bodging together a spell out of bits and pieces of physical objects and spells, much as someone on Junkyard Wards* will do it out of spare parts, a few useful completed objects, and bailing wire. If you show their design to another TW with access to the same parts, they'd be able to recreate the design, because it follows basic magical/engineering principles. But if you give two TWs access to a variety of parts, with the same goals in mind, they're going to develop individual items that follow their own aesthetic and design preferences.

*hee-hee

Mark Hall wrote:Pretty much, yeah. Only they're bodging together a spell out of bits and pieces of physical objects and spells, much as someone on Junkyard Wards* will do it out of spare parts, a few useful completed objects, and bailing wire. If you show their design to another TW with access to the same parts, they'd be able to recreate the design, because it follows basic magical/engineering principles. But if you give two TWs access to a variety of parts, with the same goals in mind, they're going to develop individual items that follow their own aesthetic and design preferences.

*hee-hee

Thr only problem with that is that it conflicts with mass production. The way you describe TW is that every device is hand made yet it has at least been hinted that Tolkeen and other magic rich nation states mass produce TW items all over the place.

SpiritInterface wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Pretty much, yeah. Only they're bodging together a spell out of bits and pieces of physical objects and spells, much as someone on Junkyard Wards* will do it out of spare parts, a few useful completed objects, and bailing wire. If you show their design to another TW with access to the same parts, they'd be able to recreate the design, because it follows basic magical/engineering principles. But if you give two TWs access to a variety of parts, with the same goals in mind, they're going to develop individual items that follow their own aesthetic and design preferences.

*hee-hee

Thr only problem with that is that it conflicts with mass production. The way you describe TW is that every device is hand made yet it has at least been hinted that Tolkeen and other magic rich nation states mass produce TW items all over the place.

Nope. Mass production is still very possible... you just standardize the parts you use.

Let's take Joe the Technowizard. He's in the field, and he needs to make an ISP-powered TW Electrical Engine charger. He takes his bondo, his bailing wire, and his quartz crystals and bodges one together so Bernie the Psychic Socialist can recharge his TW Bike when needed.

Then Joe goes back to his shop. He likes the idea of the ISP-Powered TW Electrical Engine charger, and so he puts some proper design work into it (likely based on his bodging), designing it so it can be made from standardized parts in a proper production facility. This design can be mass-produced from his schematic, because he designed it so he doesn't have to touch every part. There likely need to be Techno-wizards (or at least Techno-wizard technicians, trained to do the one step they need) to finish putting everything together, but they just do the parts they need to on pretty-much finished work.

If you've watched Junkyard Wars or the like, they bodge things out of trash because they have to (that's the fun of the show, after all). If you put them in a proper design environment and said "Ok, make something that meet these specs", they wouldn't bodge things out of trash. They'd say "Ok, I want an engine that has these specs. This is what the body should look like. Can we source this kind of drive train?" Because when you have production resources, and a production goal, that's what you do.

For an example of real world hand crafting mass produced just look at the ancient chinese crossbow. They were each hand crafted yet the parts were interchangeable...

Slight001 wrote:For an example of real world hand crafting mass produced just look at the ancient chinese crossbow. They were each hand crafted yet the parts were interchangeable...

That is like saying you could mass produce a Stratovarius.

SpiritInterface wrote:

Slight001 wrote:For an example of real world hand crafting mass produced just look at the ancient chinese crossbow. They were each hand crafted yet the parts were interchangeable...

That is like saying you could mass produce a Stratovarius.

No....but you can mass produce violins.
They might not be as good as one individually made by a single master using the finest materials....
....but they will still work just fine for most purposes, and only cost a fraction as much.

eliakon wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:

Slight001 wrote:For an example of real world hand crafting mass produced just look at the ancient chinese crossbow. They were each hand crafted yet the parts were interchangeable...

That is like saying you could mass produce a Stratovarius.

No....but you can mass produce violins.
They might not be as good as one individually made by a single master using the finest materials....
....but they will still work just fine for most purposes, and only cost a fraction as much.

That leads to the question why replace tech with with magic? Tech is always easier and cheaper to mass produce, that is why supplementing tech with magic is easier and faster. Throwing simple spells that enhance or improve a part is better than using expensive materials and throwing complex and expensive spells to replace the part.

Does anyone know any statements outside of Erin Tarn's heresay which indicates TW was invented on earth?

eliakon wrote:assuming of course that the individual GM doesn't say "nope, not in this game."

This is also an assumption one makes if one desires to play a Glitter Boy.

eliakon wrote:"Well sure....but the spell requires a material component....a special symbol carved from dragon bone sewn onto the subject......"

Material components can be added to reduce the level/cost, just means it'd have to be higher/costlier.

It might simply be availablity of the parts.... or simplicity of making them. Sometimes, I agree, the mechanical version is going to have real advantages. But mages gonna mage, ya know?

SpiritInterface wrote:

eliakon wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:

Slight001 wrote:For an example of real world hand crafting mass produced just look at the ancient chinese crossbow. They were each hand crafted yet the parts were interchangeable...

That is like saying you could mass produce a Stratovarius.

No....but you can mass produce violins.
They might not be as good as one individually made by a single master using the finest materials....
....but they will still work just fine for most purposes, and only cost a fraction as much.

That leads to the question why replace tech with with magic? Tech is always easier and cheaper to mass produce, that is why supplementing tech with magic is easier and faster. Throwing simple spells that enhance or improve a part is better than using expensive materials and throwing complex and expensive spells to replace the part.

Because a lot of what TW is doing is stuff that tech can't do. Many TW devices have effects that can not be replicated with any known technology below the level of Elder Tech (which is debatable if that is not actually a form of magic/techno-wizardry itself.....)
Even the TW guns have abilities that can not be easily replicated by technology (unless your entire race has something like the super power Energy Expulsion, or one of the specialized psionic powers from BTS2 you cant recharge a gun just by wanting to....)

I think a lot of people also forget. TW devices are not 'replace tech with magic' they are 'make a magic item that incorporates technology into it'
That suit of TW Power Armor? Yah it will still have its tech radio, tech radiation shield, tech targeting computer, tech oxygen storage cell, etc....it just ALSO has a magical flight system, magically regenerating force fields, magically turns invisible, etc....

Thus the end result is not so much "replace tech with magic" as "combine with tech to get the best of both worlds"