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While finally getting around to my copy of Chaos Earth, I noted that the option for Juicer and Crazies were not in the book, even though it was widely noted in Rifts that these were Golden Age of Man creations in use at that time.

Wouldn't Chaos Earth be the perfect time for your brave, patriotic hero to give their life to become a chemically-enhanced soldier to keep mankind alive vs. the creatures ripping their way into Earth from beyond reality?

<Gone Role Playing>

I thought a lot of the Juicer and Crazy tech was rediscovered along the way in the Dark Ages.

Alrik Vas wrote:I thought a lot of the Juicer and Crazy tech was rediscovered along the way in the Dark Ages.

Except at the time of Chaos Earth it has not yet been lost, to need rediscovering.

Heck there should have been a whole bunch of them running around at the time. And if anyone is going to survive an apocalypse its guys like Juicers and Crazies.

It seems I need to read Chaos Earf nao.

I mean, I figured there would be a lot of lead-in time and all that to Rifts (200+ years worth), though I didn't know they were picking up the story for CE on The Worst Day Ever.

Alrik Vas wrote:It seems I need to read Chaos Earf nao.

I mean, I figured there would be a lot of lead-in time and all that to Rifts (200+ years worth), though I didn't know they were picking up the story for CE on The Worst Day Ever.

Yeah, that pretty much takes the cake as the WORST CHRISTMAS EVAH! Santa must have woken up pi$$ed that December 24th...

NEMA in general did not make much use of juicers or crazies only north american military had juicers from what has been written. A lot of the tech during the end of the golden age was popping up in various countries as they focused on their own branch like russians were focused on bionics/cybernetics. I am sure there were research labs where they were everybody was probably trying to reverse engineer what the other powers were doing to see what they were and how to use them/neutralize them which is likely how the cross pollination of the various enhancements happened. Also things like the MOM conversion and juicers have some serious negative side effects and were at the time pretty much brand new tech so until things got really bad during the dark ages you probably would not see a flood of people rushing to have them done.

actually, according to the Rifts material, juicers and MOM's were more of European thing.

and even then, implied to be more of a special forces type thing than mainstream military.

glitterboy2098 wrote:actually, according to the Rifts material, juicers and MOM's were more of European thing.

and even then, implied to be more of a special forces type thing than mainstream military.

IINM one (MOM) or both are also said to be of South American thing in origin, though Europe might have been the driving force in development (Mindwerks is certainly a driving force in MOM development in Rifts Earth period). Mutants In Orbit does mention Juicer/MOM technology on Euro Space Station, and Japan's 4-Cities had the technology to fall back on.

In the golden age each major power seemed to focus on some new tech. Near the end of the golden age is when they all looked up from their own toy chests and started paying attention to what everybody else was doing.

The US seemed focused on power armor. Euro factions seemed to be in MOM/juicer with lesser focus on cyborgs. Russia focused heavily on cyborgs and heavy combat bionics. There was cross polination and it does mention that there were juicers in north america as special forces but NEMA forces did not have any listed active juicers although maybe there were some spec ops black bag units that did utilize them.

I plan on juicers being more of a criminal and terrorist tool than what a first world nation would use.

Warmaster40k wrote:I plan on juicers being more of a criminal and terrorist tool than what a first world nation would use.

I'm behind this 100%, because that's what Juicers are. Criminals and Terrorists. Bandits sometimes at best.

I would agree. The Juicer/Crazy thing doesn't look like an American technology. MDC weapons/armor, mecha, powered armor, AFVs, robots, and so on yes. I think the NAA also dabbled into cybernetics with the military specialists too. But not the human mod thing really.

Would I allow Juicers and Crazies into Chaos Earth? Maybe if the player had a good story for one. Like being a survivor from an elite black ops unit perhaps. But they are anything but common IMO.

I could have sworn that they were technologies that were made during the GA but were deemed inhumane and so would not be common used at the time of CE unless you found some illegal experiment.

Zer0 Kay wrote:I could have sworn that they were technologies that were made during the GA but were deemed inhumane and so would not be common used at the time of CE unless you found some illegal experiment.

They were deemed inhumane and mothballed, if you saw any Juicers or Crazies after the Cataclysm it was because someone broke out the technology to try and use it for survival, which is how I think the books have described their return (at least in North America) and once released proved impossible due to the shape the world was in to put back into the box.

Nightmask wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:I could have sworn that they were technologies that were made during the GA but were deemed inhumane and so would not be common used at the time of CE unless you found some illegal experiment.

They were deemed inhumane and mothballed, if you saw any Juicers or Crazies after the Cataclysm it was because someone broke out the technology to try and use it for survival, which is how I think the books have described their return (at least in North America) and once released proved impossible due to the shape the world was in to put back into the box.

I can see MOM being useful. But Juicer Aug would be additionally limited by an inconsistent source for the drugs.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:I could have sworn that they were technologies that were made during the GA but were deemed inhumane and so would not be common used at the time of CE unless you found some illegal experiment.

They were deemed inhumane and mothballed, if you saw any Juicers or Crazies after the Cataclysm it was because someone broke out the technology to try and use it for survival, which is how I think the books have described their return (at least in North America) and once released proved impossible due to the shape the world was in to put back into the box.

I can see MOM being useful. But Juicer Aug would be additionally limited by an inconsistent source for the drugs.

Being inhumane doesn't inherently make them not useful, it just makes them a counter-productive choice overall. Your crazies courtesy of their insanities can end up being just as much a threat as the creatures you made them to protect against, and the juicers as adrenaline junkies also can end up a threat as they go looking for a fight even if it means fighting their own people. Some though don't care about that which is why the tech once it was lose again have kept it from being bottled away again, just like it's so hard to end drug abuse RL in spite of the obvious harm the drugs do.

the fluff actually seems to go the otherway as far as popularity.. Juicers seem to have been seen as a good options, while MOM tech had a bad rep because of the insanity thing. probably because with juicers, a government agency or military could watch the clock and follow a mandatory Detox after a few years and keep their troops healthy. while with MOM's the process is irreversible and eventually leaves your troops totally nuts (and from a control standpoint, totally useless)

that said, i suspect the JAPE system (stats in WB5) was more common in pre-rifts times than the full juicer rig. JAPE's only provide a fraction of what a full juicer gets, but their users live a lot longer, and detox is easier.

<Gone Role Playing>

Nightmask wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:I could have sworn that they were technologies that were made during the GA but were deemed inhumane and so would not be common used at the time of CE unless you found some illegal experiment.

They were deemed inhumane and mothballed, if you saw any Juicers or Crazies after the Cataclysm it was because someone broke out the technology to try and use it for survival, which is how I think the books have described their return (at least in North America) and once released proved impossible due to the shape the world was in to put back into the box.

I can see MOM being useful. But Juicer Aug would be additionally limited by an inconsistent source for the drugs.

Being inhumane doesn't inherently make them not useful, it just makes them a counter-productive choice overall. Your crazies courtesy of their insanities can end up being just as much a threat as the creatures you made them to protect against, and the juicers as adrenaline junkies also can end up a threat as they go looking for a fight even if it means fighting their own people. Some though don't care about that which is why the tech once it was lose again have kept it from being bottled away again, just like it's so hard to end drug abuse RL in spite of the obvious harm the drugs do.

The inhumane part would have made it illegal in the "more civilized" golden age. The practical reason not to get one during the apocalypse are the surgery in the chaos and then the need for juice for the harness. Makes me wonder if the military had drugs to make the crazies, not.

Alrik Vas wrote:

Warmaster40k wrote:I plan on juicers being more of a criminal and terrorist tool than what a first world nation would use.

I'm behind this 100%, because that's what Juicers are. Criminals and Terrorists. Bandits sometimes at best.

Criminal/terrorist/super black bag james bond level license to kill ops. Not any sort of standard thing you would put into a military unit but I can see a lot of intelligence agencies convincing some super patriot to be Jason bourn for a few years for them.

Have they ever gone over what happens to a superpsycher when you MOM them?

kaid wrote:

Alrik Vas wrote:

Warmaster40k wrote:I plan on juicers being more of a criminal and terrorist tool than what a first world nation would use.

I'm behind this 100%, because that's what Juicers are. Criminals and Terrorists. Bandits sometimes at best.

Criminal/terrorist/super black bag james bond level license to kill ops. Not any sort of standard thing you would put into a military unit but I can see a lot of intelligence agencies convincing some super patriot to be Jason bourn for a few years for them.

Except that is only one small segment of what juicers are. That is like saying "all soldiers are Rambo!" Yeah, sure a bunch of Juicers are probably operatives for various intelligence agencies doing stuff (even if that's not a realistic actual job, its a game so meh).... but a lot of them are probably just soldiers, or special forces, or super-patriot death commandos, or suicide troops or.....

and to be honest, Intelligence operations have about as much in common with bond type films as a sword has in common with an orange. in intel you want to avoid attracting notice, avoid standing out, etc. which juicers do not. if your being shot at in intel work, things have gone horribly horribly wrong.

Juicers are much more special operations than intel.

there is description of a series of novels about a juicer super spy, but it's obviously a bond-style series, with little grounding in actual intelligence operations.

eliakon wrote:

kaid wrote:

Alrik Vas wrote:

Warmaster40k wrote:I plan on juicers being more of a criminal and terrorist tool than what a first world nation would use.

I'm behind this 100%, because that's what Juicers are. Criminals and Terrorists. Bandits sometimes at best.

Criminal/terrorist/super black bag james bond level license to kill ops. Not any sort of standard thing you would put into a military unit but I can see a lot of intelligence agencies convincing some super patriot to be Jason bourn for a few years for them.

Except that is only one small segment of what juicers are. That is like saying "all soldiers are Rambo!" Yeah, sure a bunch of Juicers are probably operatives for various intelligence agencies doing stuff (even if that's not a realistic actual job, its a game so meh).... but a lot of them are probably just soldiers, or special forces, or super-patriot death commandos, or suicide troops or.....

. It is likely that in the GA they'd never be used on standard soldiers due to the bad PR, if anything, it would make more sense that all juicer augs are probably black ops. And no it would be like saying all Rambos are Green Berets or all US army members are soldiers or all USAF troops are Airmen. It is because of the nature of the thing that everyone who uses it is not a normal openly known operative.

I imagine a lot of revolutionary and terrorist groups would use the juice as much as possible, as was stated above. After indoctrination, you can give them the drug harness and they believe they are the invincible warriors who will bring change to the world. The drugs make you feel like a god.

Honestly, juicer culture in Rifts is the most confusing thing in the world to me. they make them out to be this romanticized and heroic thing, but most people with that kind of cheap and easy power, who know deep down they're on a clock, wouldn't see the point of valuing any life aside their own. When one day you can't take someone down no matter how much you throw out them, and the next day you can kill them with a single punch, it goes to your head.

Alrik Vas wrote:I imagine a lot of revolutionary and terrorist groups would use the juice as much as possible, as was stated above. After indoctrination, you can give them the drug harness and they believe they are the invincible warriors who will bring change to the world. The drugs make you feel like a god.

Honestly, juicer culture in Rifts is the most confusing thing in the world to me. they make them out to be this romanticized and heroic thing, but most people with that kind of cheap and easy power, who know deep down they're on a clock, wouldn't see the point of valuing any life aside their own. When one day you can't take someone down no matter how much you throw out them, and the next day you can kill them with a single punch, it goes to your head.

I can see that, unless it was a group that went through training and conditioning before hand like CyberKnights, then maybe they could resist the selfish urge to abuse the power... More so than some scrub that walked in off the street specifically wanting power. Pre Rifts Juicer training may have dealt with it, including candidacy. Post rifts, a thug is more likely to go after the power than the average person with good intentions.

Funny thing about MoM tech is that the implants back in the golden age didn't make you as crazy and they were smaller than the ones we know in PA 110. In fact the reason they are big and cause the problems they do is because of an incomplete understanding of how to build and use the things.

Warmaster40k wrote:Funny thing about MoM tech is that the implants back in the golden age didn't make you as crazy and they were smaller than the ones we know in PA 110. In fact the reason they are big and cause the problems they do is because of an incomplete understanding of how to build and use the things.

And you read this where?

Warmaster40k wrote:Funny thing about MoM tech is that the implants back in the golden age didn't make you as crazy and they were smaller than the ones we know in PA 110. In fact the reason they are big and cause the problems they do is because of an incomplete understanding of how to build and use the things.

We know they caused insanity since it says in Mindwerks (page that there was a huge scandal about the fact that every one of the initial test subjects went insane and that about only 65% of subjects "could lead relatively normal lives" but that even they were riddled with problems.

The big implants though....yes, they are not needed as the actual implants can be micro implants and the 'tubes' are not always needed. It does mention in one of the books though that they have become something of a symbol of the MoM process and that a lot of crazies like the larger implants, even when they are not needed (i.e. if the facility can make the micro-implants)

i figure the "cans" are interfaces originally intended to do diagnostics and adjust settings on the implants. they aren't 100% required tech wise, but pre-rifts they were mandated because you'd have doctors and stuff trying to tweak things constantly, checking various outputs to ensure health, etc. it was a new, not fully understood technology, and being able to monitor the recipients would be important.

post-rifts they stuck around because they were handy, and made the recipient of MOM implants more recognizable.

Alrik Vas wrote:I imagine a lot of revolutionary and terrorist groups would use the juice as much as possible, as was stated above. After indoctrination, you can give them the drug harness and they believe they are the invincible warriors who will bring change to the world. The drugs make you feel like a god.

Honestly, juicer culture in Rifts is the most confusing thing in the world to me. they make them out to be this romanticized and heroic thing, but most people with that kind of cheap and easy power, who know deep down they're on a clock, wouldn't see the point of valuing any life aside their own. When one day you can't take someone down no matter how much you throw out them, and the next day you can kill them with a single punch, it goes to your head.

I see your point but I also see the other side of the coin- in Chaos Earth particularly, where mankind REALLY has nowhere else to turn (as far as they know), why wouldn't you take a group of dedicated people and specially train them to take on the power of a juicer? It provides you with a superlative weapon, even armed only with light to medium MD armor and weapons, and you can make them at the fraction of the cost of repairing robots or power armor units.

As to the point about the new Juicer seeing himself as a god and taking off to make his fortune- where will he go? Realistically, in Chaos Earth, how is a Juicer going to amass any real amount of even temporary power before his clock runs out? I think it far more likely that you could sell the 'greater good' sacrifice angle (like in the Marvel Strikeforce Morituri comic where people were given superpowers to fight alien invaders but the powers would burn them out and kill them in less than 1 year) to insure you get dedicated champions of humanity than NEMA just giving juicer powers to random psychos with deathwishes and hoping for the best. Besides, maybe NEMA is sneaky enough to drop a failsafe killswitch into the Juicer harness to insure none 'go rogue' on them, at least until their mandated 4 years of service is up- they can then muster out and get detoxed, with possible borg augmentation if they survive (to make the best of their heightened combat experience), or the can stay on and fight for mankind or go off on their own at that point, with no further chemical 'top-ups' or other assistance from NEMA unless they at least maintain a freelance relationship with the military.

How often do Juicer need to resupply their bio-comp??

SittingBull wrote:How often do Juicer need to resupply their bio-comp??

class starts with a 6 month supply.
and that is as much as we know on that end.
so as to how often? GM call...

I thought world book 10 said it was every six months to one year?

Glistam wrote:I thought world book 10 said it was every six months to one year?

was that the info under the Dragon Juicer? I took that to apply only to them since it was discussing an alchemical/tw juicer and not a regular one.

NEMA wouldn't use them and reasons would be covered in Juicer uprising pg 8, referring to the uproar over the 100% mortality rate in under 8 years.
But, the U.S. military, intell agencies (would make great CIA SAD operators) private security/paramilitary groups, and those mentioned on page 8 in the book certainly would.

Seriously though you aren't infiltrating in facility with a 1/2 ton cyborg or power armor just not happening, you have a better chance of sneaking the Macy's thanksgiving day parade in.

Gamer wrote:NEMA wouldn't use them and reasons would be covered in Juicer uprising pg 8, referring to the uproar over the 100% mortality rate in under 8 years.
But, the U.S. military, intell agencies (would make great CIA SAD operators) private security/paramilitary groups, and those mentioned on page 8 in the book certainly would.

Seriously though you aren't infiltrating in facility with a 1/2 ton cyborg or power armor just not happening, you have a better chance of sneaking the Macy's thanksgiving day parade in.

That is probably what the light cyborg and partial cyborg was invented for.....
Though to be honest RAW you can have a heck of a lot of implants built in before you look inhuman so espionage-borgs are very doable. See stuff like Ghost in the Shell, Gunslinger Girl, and Battle Angel Alita for some examples on the theme.

I always looked at the below as sort of the breakdown of specialties. The Brits had PA, but they weren't groundbreaking in the tech. Australia for example didn't really excel at anything, but could hold their own in say PA.

British-Psychic Technology
Germans-Robots/PA, Bionics, Juicers
Russia-Bionics
"Eastern Europe"-MOM
Japanese-Robots/PA, Bionics
South America-Genetics
China-Steals versions of almost everything
North America-Has versions of everything
Australia-Northing super cutting edge

USA seems to be the only country that developed mutant animals.

They just mothballed the tech over concerns that they were creating an entire race of slaves. And given the US's history with slavery.....

The Lone Star facility seems to be the only location of a secret lab where they continued research.

actually the USA only had lonestar, and the dogboys. a project they never got completed before the cataclysmm

Mutant animals were a south american development. argentina, it would seem given the Mutant's lands post-rifts.

it was the south americans that did the amphibs (and got in a lot of trouble over it), and then in more secrecy, the mutant cats, the mutant birds, the mutant cabybaras, eventually the neo-humans. etc. going by the fluff in the SA books, the program developing the mutants even managed to remain operating for some years after the cataclysm hit.

eliakon wrote:

Gamer wrote:NEMA wouldn't use them and reasons would be covered in Juicer uprising pg 8, referring to the uproar over the 100% mortality rate in under 8 years.
But, the U.S. military, intell agencies (would make great CIA SAD operators) private security/paramilitary groups, and those mentioned on page 8 in the book certainly would.

Seriously though you aren't infiltrating in facility with a 1/2 ton cyborg or power armor just not happening, you have a better chance of sneaking the Macy's thanksgiving day parade in.

That is probably what the light cyborg and partial cyborg was invented for.....
Though to be honest RAW you can have a heck of a lot of implants built in before you look inhuman so espionage-borgs are very doable. See stuff like Ghost in the Shell, Gunslinger Girl, and Battle Angel Alita for some examples on the theme.

I remember Alita being an android. Or are you saying just body type? If so also have Naomi Armitage and Kos-Mos

South America had multiple genetics projects. Everything from the Neo Humans, to the Cats, basically what GlitterBoy said.

I just saw Genetics as a general specialty of the region.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Gamer wrote:NEMA wouldn't use them and reasons would be covered in Juicer uprising pg 8, referring to the uproar over the 100% mortality rate in under 8 years.
But, the U.S. military, intell agencies (would make great CIA SAD operators) private security/paramilitary groups, and those mentioned on page 8 in the book certainly would.

Seriously though you aren't infiltrating in facility with a 1/2 ton cyborg or power armor just not happening, you have a better chance of sneaking the Macy's thanksgiving day parade in.

That is probably what the light cyborg and partial cyborg was invented for.....
Though to be honest RAW you can have a heck of a lot of implants built in before you look inhuman so espionage-borgs are very doable. See stuff like Ghost in the Shell, Gunslinger Girl, and Battle Angel Alita for some examples on the theme.

I remember Alita being an android. Or are you saying just body type? If so also have Naomi Armitage and Kos-Mos

Bionic Sourcebook. the Hidden Cyborg. your basic GITS like full conversion cyborg that (baring any really blatant implant options) looks human. their default weight is light enough that they'd not automatically stand out as being a full conversion cyborg, they can pass as human fairly easily.

odds are that cyborg type, being rather different from most of the others in the setting, was originally a pre-rifts design. would be an ideal field operations/special forces cyborg body, even more so if you use your "choose [number] implants" option to grab things like the cyber disguise kit and concealed equipment.


that said, i suspect that you didn't have a lot of full conversions or even partial conversions pre-rifts. especially not many where a healthy person volunteered to have their body cut away for it. more likely most military types with cybernetics got them as replacements for lost parts in accidents or combat. though i could see Paraplegics, quadriplegics, and others with physical disabilities being offered a chance to join up for a certain number of years, in exchange for cybernetic enhancement (and promise that when they are discharged, they'd get fitted with civilian grade implants or at least keep their implants, just demilitarized.)

glitterboy2098 wrote:actually the USA only had lonestar, and the dogboys. a project they never got completed before the cataclysmm

Mutant animals were a south american development. argentina, it would seem given the Mutant's lands post-rifts.

it was the south americans that did the amphibs (and got in a lot of trouble over it), and then in more secrecy, the mutant cats, the mutant birds, the mutant cabybaras, eventually the neo-humans. etc. going by the fluff in the SA books, the program developing the mutants even managed to remain operating for some years after the cataclysm hit.

RUE p. 144

Lone Star was completed well before the Cataclysm. The CS found it and all they had to do was turn the power on. The US had the capability of creating a massive army of Dog Boys but didn't due to public opinion.

Further, no South American country is named as being heavily involved in genetic research. On US, France, China, and "a few other countries." Not enough to say that some country in SA didn't make mutant animals, but they weren't exclusive to SA.

In regards to Pre-Rifts Juicers, would they still have the "Burn Out" effect, & die off after 7 years? With it being the Golden Age of Tech, & lots of Tech places still around after the major cataclysm, (Austin, San Antonio, are stated as being mostly undamaged, & had major Military Bases), Medical advancements, & such, would a Juicer still burn out their body in the shortspan? I know ages down the line, they lose that part of the Tech, but what at Golden Age?

Crow Splat wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:actually the USA only had lonestar, and the dogboys. a project they never got completed before the cataclysmm

Mutant animals were a south american development. argentina, it would seem given the Mutant's lands post-rifts.

it was the south americans that did the amphibs (and got in a lot of trouble over it), and then in more secrecy, the mutant cats, the mutant birds, the mutant cabybaras, eventually the neo-humans. etc. going by the fluff in the SA books, the program developing the mutants even managed to remain operating for some years after the cataclysm hit.

RUE p. 144

Lone Star was completed well before the Cataclysm. The CS found it and all they had to do was turn the power on. The US had the capability of creating a massive army of Dog Boys but didn't due to public opinion.

Further, no South American country is named as being heavily involved in genetic research. On US, France, China, and "a few other countries." Not enough to say that some country in SA didn't make mutant animals, but they weren't exclusive to SA.

He didn't say Lonestar wasn't completed he said the dogboy project was never completed. You just showed that he was correct and provided the reason (highlighted above)

How can you still say that there is "Not enough to say that some country in SA didn't make mutant animals," when by canon it is impossible to say SA did not? It is called South America 2.

Brayon wrote:In regards to Pre-Rifts Juicers, would they still have the "Burn Out" effect, & die off after 7 years? With it being the Golden Age of Tech, & lots of Tech places still around after the major cataclysm, (Austin, San Antonio, are stated as being mostly undamaged, & had major Military Bases), Medical advancements, & such, would a Juicer still burn out their body in the shortspan? I know ages down the line, they lose that part of the Tech, but what at Golden Age?

Maybe, in the GA the only have the agents use it per mission and pull them off it and detox them when they get home? It being the GA they'd have enough personnel to rotate them out for missions instead of requiring one guy to wear the harness for six years continuously. Maybe they never found out about burn out because they never made their agents use it that long. They tested them on it for the length of time that they needed plus a little more just incase so maybe a month and found that there were no health issues, except an addiction, which they easily took care of once the agents got back.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Gamer wrote:NEMA wouldn't use them and reasons would be covered in Juicer uprising pg 8, referring to the uproar over the 100% mortality rate in under 8 years.
But, the U.S. military, intell agencies (would make great CIA SAD operators) private security/paramilitary groups, and those mentioned on page 8 in the book certainly would.

Seriously though you aren't infiltrating in facility with a 1/2 ton cyborg or power armor just not happening, you have a better chance of sneaking the Macy's thanksgiving day parade in.

That is probably what the light cyborg and partial cyborg was invented for.....
Though to be honest RAW you can have a heck of a lot of implants built in before you look inhuman so espionage-borgs are very doable. See stuff like Ghost in the Shell, Gunslinger Girl, and Battle Angel Alita for some examples on the theme.

I remember Alita being an android. Or are you saying just body type? If so also have Naomi Armitage and Kos-Mos

Bionic Sourcebook. the Hidden Cyborg. your basic GITS like full conversion cyborg that (baring any really blatant implant options) looks human. their default weight is light enough that they'd not automatically stand out as being a full conversion cyborg, they can pass as human fairly easily.

odds are that cyborg type, being rather different from most of the others in the setting, was originally a pre-rifts design. would be an ideal field operations/special forces cyborg body, even more so if you use your "choose [number] implants" option to grab things like the cyber disguise kit and concealed equipment.


that said, i suspect that you didn't have a lot of full conversions or even partial conversions pre-rifts. especially not many where a healthy person volunteered to have their body cut away for it. more likely most military types with cybernetics got them as replacements for lost parts in accidents or combat. though i could see Paraplegics, quadriplegics, and others with physical disabilities being offered a chance to join up for a certain number of years, in exchange for cybernetic enhancement (and promise that when they are discharged, they'd get fitted with civilian grade implants or at least keep their implants, just demilitarized.)

Um... were you responding to eliakon, cuz your post doesn't cover my response about Alita being an Android not a Borg?