Sourcebook ideas

[Sammit]

First of all, I love the idea of a Tyrol sourcebook. I'd hope it'd cover the fall at the hand of the Regent as well as the liberation by the UEEF. (By the way, I always hoped that the explanation for why the Robotech Masters and Humans had compatible DNA was because the Robotech Mastered are descendants of the engineering Corp from the SDF-1 that were thrown throw Space-Time to Tyrol after it tried to fold for the first time).

1. Sourcebooks covering the Capital Ships of all eras. (Maybe intergrated into the space pirate idea?)
2. A sourcebook covering the liberation fleet that had stats for Super shadow alphas and betas
3. More on the Hadonites of course
4. More material on the alien races and their home planets, including the Invid with depth akin to the first edition Zentradi book.
5. The UEEF Marines have their book, how about the grunts now?
6. Updated versions of previously published books (From the first edition).

[glitterboy2098]

any Sentinels period books NEED to update the timeline from UEEF marines to match HG canon. so the trip there being mutliple folds. the regent being beaten in 2042. etc.

myself, i've got a outline and some sections for a Sourcebook on reconstruction period earth in my "work in progress" folder. maybe i should submit a concept proposal?

the new UEG's efforts to unify and rebuild earth
the Rise of the ASC in south america and how it takes over the UEDF/UEG from within.
the extent of the devestation and what did survive (using the world info from New generation sourcebook as a starting point.. several of those entries had details on the end of the 1st war)
details on the Global war, and how the Anti-unificationists play into the post-1st war status quo
Details on the various nations/city-states, both UEG allied and independannt
some new mecha (stats for the prototype Alpha, the YF-4, some other designs drawn from the very early IMAI stuff)
Conventional vehicles.. some seen in the series but not stated up, some being real world gear from the "globar war period."

[jaymz]

If Palladium is being held to only official material....which by all indications they are (remember they are not in the boat they were with first edition where they could do things like Return of the Masters and Strike Force) then we don't have much left truth be told.

I see at best 4 more books.

A pair of Capital ship books. Earth and Enemies of Earth. These could be padded by doing deck plans and such

1 - Earth ships book would have about 2 dozen vessel they could spec out over al three eras (This includes some shuttles and such)

2 - Enemies of Earth ships book would be about 15-18 tops. This can be expanded by detailing any refits done by Earth on Zentraedi or masters ships.

Deck plans for the above could make these good sized books too.

3 - A "sentinels" era book would be able to use all the stuff from Imai files that hasn't been used yet (The other Alpha like "destroids" and variants) as well as details on the various Sentinel worlds and timeline of the era.

4 - Reconstruction era book would cover most of what GB states above. Rise of city states (this would be dependent on HG allowing "new" material to create such things), ASC, UEG rebuilding efforts, devastation around the world, new vehicles and maybe at best stinger designs from around the world. Some of these COLD be split up into "splat" books for quicker release over time though.

And I would do them in that order.

Since HG has more or less shown only a desire to stick "official" material as much as possible thought the above is about all i can see getting done any time soon...if at all.

As for the Global Civil War....it COULD be a 5th book but honestly, VERY few people are interested in that era and want to play Robotech not the GCW. That would be the absolutely last book I would look at writing of any. GCW could be run using material from already existing Palladium Games pretty easily.

[Seto Kaiba]

If Palladium is being held to only official material....which by all indications they are (remember they are not in the boat they were with first edition where they could do things like Return of the Masters and Strike Force) then we don't have much left truth be told.

I see at best 4 more books.

Unless Harmony Gold's management have given up on vetting new licensee-produced material in the wake of the string of recent failures that all but killed the franchise, I doubt that Palladium Books can milk more than three more books out of the setting. It doesn't have enough official material to keep the game going now that we've exhausted all the official stories. There's nothing in terms of new material forthcoming either, as all evidence is that Shadow Rising has been canceled since Summer 2007 (the USPTO's records indicate their trademarks were abandoned in August) and Creavision insists Academy was killed when HG's management ragequit its doomed Kickstarter.

Warning: For flaming Palladium's Business partners.

With the existing material they have left to cover, I suspect they could get maybe three books out of the series before they're left flapping in the breeze.

- They could get one book out of the Spaceships sourcebook concept, unless it was mercilessly padded with deck plans and auxiliary craft that are really incredibly obscure. There are only about two dozen canon starship designs in all of Robotech.

- One book to actually focus on the Sentinels story arc (if HG will permit it) though they've basically run out of designs.

- One book to focus on the handful of worlds that have plot relevance (Tirol, Optera, Mars, the Moon)

[Arnie100]

Well, according to the back of the 8.5x11 version of The Macross Saga sourcebook, there's supposed to be a Zentraedi Protrctorate sourcebook in the works...

[glitterboy2098]

actually HG is clearly allowing original material again.
the Gura-invid, the various Genesis pits, the UEEF marines organization, the IMAI mecha.. all stuff that never appeared in the show. and the new Generation sourcebook expanded the setting a lot beyond the narrow slice depicted in the show itself.

the difference is that unlike 1st edition, HG is trying to keep a tighter reign on what goes into the game so that the core of "what was in the show" remains intact. or at least, the HG mandated version of said.

there have been failings by HG to fact check everything (see the UEEF marines timeline) but for the most part it's worked.

[SRoss]

It would be nice if the ASC got some love this time. Maybe a book on the rise of the ASC, also something covering the period between the end of the Master's saga to the arrival of the Invid.

[gaby]

Zentraedi book that covers ever thing not in Macross saga.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I agree that the Sentinels campaign book need update....and that this should not be as hard as the the books covering the three main war eras on earth because HG owns it completely. Because many of the UEEF and (so I have heard) the alien races have already been detailed in the corebook and marines The writers can focus more on the setting of the Fantoma local group instead of reprinting the ships, mecha and races that took up most of the old Sentinels book.

Along with the ships books, a Space Campaign sourcebook(s) would be liked. Setting up adventure ideas with in the text and maybe giving some fleet battle rules. There are already two books (Ghost Ship and The return of the Masers) that could combined into these source books. Maybe do them as World books, with each detailing one to three worlds (with the 1st one covering Tirol/Fantoma, Optera, and Praxis).

[Seto Kaiba]

actually HG is clearly allowing original material again.
the Gura-invid, the various Genesis pits, the UEEF marines organization, the IMAI mecha.. all stuff that never appeared in the show. and the new Generation sourcebook expanded the setting a lot beyond the narrow slice depicted in the show itself.

While this is superficially true... one has to remember that it's only true for a certain, weasel-word definition of "original". In truth, this material isn't really new or really that far out of the norm for the Robotech setting. It's very likely that the reason this "original" material is getting a pass from Harmony Gold is that it's OSM-inspired, supported by canon Robotech, or based upon older Robotech titles. Problem is, we're running out of material on those fronts.

[eliakon]

actually HG is clearly allowing original material again.
the Gura-invid, the various Genesis pits, the UEEF marines organization, the IMAI mecha.. all stuff that never appeared in the show. and the new Generation sourcebook expanded the setting a lot beyond the narrow slice depicted in the show itself.

While this is superficially true... one has to remember that it's only true for a certain, weasel-word definition of "original". In truth, this material isn't really new or really that far out of the norm for the Robotech setting. It's very likely that the reason this "original" material is getting a pass from Harmony Gold is that it's OSM-inspired, supported by canon Robotech, or based upon older Robotech titles. Problem is, we're running out of material on those fronts.

I am curious what source there was for Gura-Invid then?
Or for Genesis pit mutations to give humans invid psionics?
Or for the organizational set up of the UEEF

Original material can still be inspired by the setting its for. That is, in fact sort of the whole point of writing new material for a setting. To make new material for that setting. If we are defining the word 'original' to not include anything that is inspired in any way by the setting, then there has not been any new material in the entire setting since the first Macross concept drawing was put down...since everything since has been inspired in some way from that original idea. And I rather suspect that most people would think that it would be a pretty far stretch to call every idea in every show in both the Robotech and Macross franchises 'unoriginal'....even though they are all set, intellectually if nothing else in a world inspired by that first idea.

[Seto Kaiba]

Original material can still be inspired by the setting its for. That is, in fact sort of the whole point of writing new material for a setting. To make new material for that setting. If we are defining the word 'original' to not include anything that is inspired in any way by the setting, then there has not been any new material in the entire setting since the first Macross concept drawing was put down...since everything since has been inspired in some way from that original idea.

Yes, but in order to be "original" material inspired by its setting there has to be an additive quality to it. It isn't really "inspiration" when all that's going on is you're taking material that already exists and just repackaging it in a slightly different context. Frankly, that's what's going on here. The "original" ideas that Harmony Gold is approving are mostly just recycled content. There's nothing really wrong with that if you're returning to a setting that's already been fully developed, but if all they're doing is reusing an assortment of material from ~30 years ago it certainly doesn't prove that Harmony Gold is allowing Palladium to go create its own original material as some are saying. That leaves Palladium with a diminishing body of material to explore for new books, and the lion's share of the story areas yet to be covered no longer have any official narrative to build from (or are canceled projects). The major stories have all been covered, so what's left is spackling over the cracks and little niches.

I am curious what source there was for Gura-Invid then?

Pre-production materials from Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, from before the Inbit became distinct from their mecha... and the idea of living beings being fused to technology by a genesis pit is also a major plot event in Prelude #4 and #5.

Or for Genesis pit mutations to give humans invid psionics?

That'd be right out of Ep69 "The Genesis Pits", in which a brief exposure to a genesis pit temporarily gave Annie the Invid telepathy ability... which the Regess used to dispense some expository dialog through her.

Or for the organizational set up of the UEEF

Except for the part about it being Breetai's baby, that's right out of the aborted Sentinels series and comic book line... in which the ground forces and fleet were presented as separate and distinct forces under Major General Rick Hunter and Admiral Lisa Hunter respectively. (I'll admit I am not sure why the Marines book presented the idea of a Marine corps as new and novel when the RT 2E Macross Saga book makes much of the core cast Marine aviators.)

[EightBitEighties]

My Sourcebook Wishlist:

1) Ships. Plain and simple. I love ship designs and it's almost painful to see that "Further information about this ship and others will be covered in a future sourcebook dedicated to Robotech spaceships". Granted, the ships that are in the books right now do have full stats and stuff, but we're missing certain (and I think) important vessels. The Ikazuchi isn't in any of the manga-sized books that I have, nor Genesis Pits, New Generation, or Marines Preview. No Garfish. No Horizon-T. No Ark Angel. No Angel, even. Then we've got the Takeru from Academy. No Tokugawa. No SDF-3, for pity's sake. Pretty much THE most important vessel in the entire UEEF isn't statted. That's just Earth forces. Don't get me started on the Zents, Masters, and other races. This isn't even including refit/modification packages. I've been able to "hobble along" by coming up with my own stats for stuff I want to use that isn't available, but that shouldn't be the "Go To" option unless you want to go off-script.

2) Flesh out the Haydonites some more. As I stated, I have the manga-sized edition of the Shadow Chronicles book. There are no options for taking on the Haydonites outside of their mecha. (Like Vince Grant and Scott Bernard did in the movie.) Nevermind the fact that PLAYING a Haydonite, pre-betrayal, is impossible without building an R.C.C., which I have done, though it is admittedly wonky. It WORKS for the NPC character it's used for...but the option of taking it outside my own campaign is horribly limited.

Right now, that's what I have. I'll propose some more ideas in a little while.

[ShadowLogan]

some new mecha (stats for the prototype Alpha, the YF-4, some other designs drawn from the very early IMAI stuff)

While I can get behind the idea of prototypes and such, please no more IMAI (OSM pre-production) stuff. They could use Sentinels pre-production material like you can find on the DVD extras (at least the Legacy collection).

Something that might be interesting along this line of equipment, is an equipment book dedicated to advanced technology and spinoffs. This would allow them to cover the various prototpyes, play with IMUs (most of which are written as "production units in disguise" IMHO), maybe even section(s) on human/Tyrolian cybernetics. Maybe even make some of those conventional platforms that have been missed are spin-offs of more advanced hardware done for "cost" reasons.

It doesn't have enough official material to keep the game going now that we've exhausted all the official stories. There's nothing in terms of new material forthcoming either, as all evidence is that Shadow Rising has been canceled since Summer 2007 (the USPTO's records indicate their trademarks were abandoned in August) and Creavision insists Academy was killed when HG's management ragequit its doomed Kickstarter.

One thing they could possibly do with Academy/Rising (I would also include Sentinels here, though IIRC Academy sounded like it was to be a revamped Sentinels basically) is release it in RPG-form, maybe in the form of "campagin modules" like 1E had (6 IINM, +1 if you count the "revised" edition, +1 if you count the REF Field Guide here). At least this way they can recover some of what ever they invested and had developed.

With the existing material they have left to cover, I suspect they could get maybe three books out of the series before they're left flapping in the breeze.

Well the two ideas put forth in the Press Release would seem to disagree with you on content since one of them isn't covered by your list. Really "worlds" and "Sentinels" can be combined into one book really, maybe even the "space pirates" depending on how they do them. The main sticking point w/Sentinels & Pirates is how they are going to address their technology examples to flesh them out unless they think IMUs and "re-purposed" existing equipment will fill the bill.

That'd be right out of Ep69 "The Genesis Pits", in which a brief exposure to a genesis pit temporarily gave Annie the Invid telepathy ability... which the Regess used to dispense some expository dialog through her.

Why do we even assume that the Pit gave Annie telepathic ability. If that was the case then why didn't the GP do something to Scott and Rand? I think it is more likely that the Regis can possess people, though with some limitations (like they have to be asleep, be in close proximity to an Invid or one of their installations, etc) since Annie did not retain that ability after they left the Pit (nothing indicates alterations by the Invid would be temporary either).

[glitterboy2098]

some new mecha (stats for the prototype Alpha, the YF-4, some other designs drawn from the very early IMAI stuff)

While I can get behind the idea of prototypes and such, please no more IMAI (OSM pre-production) stuff. They could use Sentinels pre-production material like you can find on the DVD extras (at least the Legacy collection).

actually i was thinking one of the really early stuff in the iMAI files, before they figured out what they were doing. like this unit: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... 0urxli.png

also, it is worth noting that the reconstruction period is when the UEEF is being built, and you have the UEDF still seperate from the ASC, so a degree of the UEEF styled mecha would make sense. so some of the currently unused IMAI files stuff might fit as 2nd gen UEDF units, that became overshadowed/replaced by the ASC gear after their merger in the mid 2020's. mainly thinking some of the Destroid type units.

and the sentinels concept art stuff might work for other timeframes and settings i nthe game, but for my focus it doesn't really fit because msot of whats left is stuff developed for the various aliens in the sentinels storyline.

[eliakon]

Original material can still be inspired by the setting its for. That is, in fact sort of the whole point of writing new material for a setting. To make new material for that setting. If we are defining the word 'original' to not include anything that is inspired in any way by the setting, then there has not been any new material in the entire setting since the first Macross concept drawing was put down...since everything since has been inspired in some way from that original idea.

Yes, but in order to be "original" material inspired by its setting there has to be an additive quality to it. It isn't really "inspiration" when all that's going on is you're taking material that already exists and just repackaging it in a slightly different context. Frankly, that's what's going on here. The "original" ideas that Harmony Gold is approving are mostly just recycled content. There's nothing really wrong with that if you're returning to a setting that's already been fully developed, but if all they're doing is reusing an assortment of material from ~30 years ago it certainly doesn't prove that Harmony Gold is allowing Palladium to go create its own original material as some are saying. That leaves Palladium with a diminishing body of material to explore for new books, and the lion's share of the story areas yet to be covered no longer have any official narrative to build from (or are canceled projects). The major stories have all been covered, so what's left is spackling over the cracks and little niches.

And now your going in circles.
Your saying that it cant be original because its filling in, and it can only fill in because it can't be original....
Basically it seems that your proof that there is no possibility for original material is the contention that there is no original material itself.

Since it seems that both Palladium Books and Harmony Gold disagree with your assessment (since there have been new materials put out in the last 30 years, and more are slated to be released) I am going to have to go with the demonstrated "there can be new material because there has been some already". Its hard to argue that something is impossible when it has already occurred after all....

Or for Genesis pit mutations to give humans invid psionics?

That'd be right out of Ep69 "The Genesis Pits", in which a brief exposure to a genesis pit temporarily gave Annie the Invid telepathy ability... which the Regess used to dispense some expository dialog through her.

Well other than the minor trivial details that Annie wasn't actually put through the genesis process. Or that there is nothing to suggest that Genesis mutations are temporary. Or really that this was anything other than the Regis using her already established to be mighty telepathic abilities.....

[Seto Kaiba]

One thing they could possibly do with Academy/Rising (I would also include Sentinels here, though IIRC Academy sounded like it was to be a revamped Sentinels basically) is release it in RPG-form, maybe in the form of "campagin modules" like 1E had (6 IINM, +1 if you count the "revised" edition, +1 if you count the REF Field Guide here).

That's assuming that they have enough material to actually do that... presently, there is no published evidence to suggest the second episode of the Shadow Chronicles OVA or the Robotech Academy series made it far enough into development for there to be enough material to base a book on. (As of yet, Harmony Gold has not reversed itself on its "We're not revisiting RT2's story" policy, preferring apparently to shotgun minor detail into the general vicinity around those events instead.)

Well the two ideas put forth in the Press Release would seem to disagree with you on content since one of them isn't covered by your list.

Remember that a press release is no guarantee of Harmony Gold's approval or the book's eventual delivery (Spaceships anyone?).

And now your going in circles.
Your saying that it cant be original because its filling in, and it can only fill in because it can't be original....
Basically it seems that your proof that there is no possibility for original material is the contention that there is no original material itself.

That's an interesting (and entirely incorrect) interpretation... I'm not here to juggle straw men, so let's move on.

Briefly simplifying the previous post for your benefit: it's not original material if all it is is a repackaging of preexisting designs and story concepts. To produce original material based on an existing body of work there has to be the addition of new aspects or new concepts to the material. That's not what we're seeing here, for the most part.

Since it seems that both Palladium Books and Harmony Gold disagree with your assessment (since there have been new materials put out in the last 30 years, and more are slated to be released) I am going to have to go with the demonstrated "there can be new material because there has been some already". Its hard to argue that something is impossible when it has already occurred after all....

That's an interesting non sequitur, but it's also not entirely truthful. Yes, some small quantity of new material has come out over the last 30 years. Virtually all of it has been subsequently disowned by Harmony Gold for various reasons, so the net gain of that creative process is virtually nil. In 30 years, Harmony Gold has only successfully completed two projects to build upon the 85 episode animated Robotech series... the first is permanently off the table due to Harmony Gold having both disowned it AND given up the rights to the source animation, and the second is a clip show could fit the sum total of its new animated content in a long-ish commercial break and otherwise adds nothing to the story or setting. Every other animated project has died either in the development process or in early production and were never carried though.

What does that leave us for new material, when Academy's creators insist it's dead and Harmony Gold's own filings with the USPTO suggest Shadow Rising was canceled over half a decade ago?* We've got a couple comic book side stories put out under DC/Wildstorm that are told with pre-existing characters, settings, and designs, and we've got Prelude... that's about it. The words "tapping a dry well" seem unusually apt in this instance. Palladium is continuing to put out books... but is the content new? New to some of their fans, perhaps... like Love Live Alive was... but by in large they're just dressing up material from 25 or more years ago while obliging Harmony Gold's wishes by staying in the official setting sandbox.

All told, I look at the current situation and I see opportunities to go back and fill in what little official material hasn't been covered yet... but the idea that we're going to start getting all-new content strikes me as wishful thinking. (We've been stymied on literally every other front, so I can certainly understand the wish... but I'm a realist at heart.)


* USPTO.gov won't let me link directly to the TESS search results, but for serial numbers 77258278, 77258272, 77258268, 77258265, and 77258261 (the five filings for Shadow Rising), all five filings are listed as dead and abandoned 8 August 2011.

[eliakon]

Well the two ideas put forth in the Press Release would seem to disagree with you on content since one of them isn't covered by your list.

Remember that a press release is no guarantee of Harmony Gold's approval or the book's eventual delivery (Spaceships anyone?).

And neither is the lack of the book so far some sort of proof that the book is impossible.

And now your going in circles.
Your saying that it cant be original because its filling in, and it can only fill in because it can't be original....
Basically it seems that your proof that there is no possibility for original material is the contention that there is no original material itself.

That's an interesting (and entirely incorrect) interpretation... I'm not here to juggle straw men, so let's move on.

Briefly simplifying the previous post for your benefit: it's not original material if all it is is a repackaging of preexisting designs and story concepts. To produce original material based on an existing body of work there has to be the addition of new aspects or new concepts to the material. That's not what we're seeing here, for the most part.

Ummm now your moving the goal posts...
You were claiming that there was nothing original here. Now your claiming that there is....but its not enough.
Which seems to be back to the "I don't think it is possible, so its not" argument.
And since this is NOT Just "a repackaging of preexisting designs and story concepts" any claim that requires that as a starting point fall flat on its face. As was demonstrated with the simple easy example of how the RPG has already made something up vis-à-vis the Genesis Pits that is not in any previous material and is not supported by anything outside of the books themselves. If the RPG has already made original content that is not a repackaging then by definition the RPG is well....making original content. And that sort of means that Original Content could continue to be made.

Since it seems that both Palladium Books and Harmony Gold disagree with your assessment (since there have been new materials put out in the last 30 years, and more are slated to be released) I am going to have to go with the demonstrated "there can be new material because there has been some already". Its hard to argue that something is impossible when it has already occurred after all....

That's an interesting non sequitur, but it's also not entirely truthful. Yes, some small quantity of new material has come out over the last 30 years. Virtually all of it has been subsequently disowned by Harmony Gold for various reasons, so the net gain of that creative process is virtually nil. In 30 years, Harmony Gold has only successfully completed two projects to build upon the 85 episode animated Robotech series... the first is permanently off the table due to Harmony Gold having both disowned it AND given up the rights to the source animation, and the second is a clip show could fit the sum total of its new animated content in a long-ish commercial break and otherwise adds nothing to the story or setting. Every other animated project has died either in the development process or in early production and were never carried though.

What does that leave us for new material, when Academy's creators insist it's dead and Harmony Gold's own filings with the USPTO suggest Shadow Rising was canceled over half a decade ago?* We've got a couple comic book side stories put out under DC/Wildstorm that are told with pre-existing characters, settings, and designs, and we've got Prelude... that's about it. The words "tapping a dry well" seem unusually apt in this instance. Palladium is continuing to put out books... but is the content new? New to some of their fans, perhaps... like Love Live Alive was... but by in large they're just dressing up material from 25 or more years ago while obliging Harmony Gold's wishes by staying in the official setting sandbox.

All told, I look at the current situation and I see opportunities to go back and fill in what little official material hasn't been covered yet... but the idea that we're going to start getting all-new content strikes me as wishful thinking. (We've been stymied on literally every other front, so I can certainly understand the wish... but I'm a realist at heart.)


* USPTO.gov won't let me link directly to the TESS search results, but for serial numbers 77258278, 77258272, 77258268, 77258265, and 77258261 (the five filings for Shadow Rising), all five filings are listed as dead and abandoned 8 August 2011.

And again your still back to trying to have your cake and eat it too. Either there was no original work done AT ALL, or they have allowed original work. Simply because they have abandoned a project for animation, or canceled a comic does not mean for instance that the idea can not be turned into a game book.
Its a pretty simple binary state equation "Has there been original material written in the last 30 years that is still considered canon that was not in the original show?" Since the answer is "yes" then any claim that it is impossible to create more material, or that no one is creating material is provably false.
It doesn't matter if the quantity is not up to your standards, if the quantity is greater than zero then it has occurred before and can occur again (Unless you can cite a specific documentable source proving that it can no longer occur. Rumor and hearsay are not sources.)
Since it can occur and has demonstrably occurred before both in the comics, animation, and in the writing of the RPG, in that there are materials in all three that are not sourced from the original show, it stands to reason that it can happen again.

[ShadowLogan]

@glitterboy2098
I am against the idea of recycling unused preproduction works from the Japanese OSMs, so i can't really get behind mining the IMAI files for actual "new" material.

That's assuming that they have enough material to actually do that... presently, there is no published evidence to suggest the second episode of the Shadow Chronicles OVA or the Robotech Academy series made it far enough into development for there to be enough material to base a book on. (As of yet, Harmony Gold has not reversed itself on its "We're not revisiting RT2's story" policy, preferring apparently to shotgun minor detail into the general vicinity around those events instead.)

Given we are talking about an RPG adventure module, they might not need as much detail present to make it work like fully fleshed out scripts and such since presumably the module will be structured for the PCs to handle events and not NPCs (for practical purposes that is who characters in these works are).

As far as information to work with for the 3 settings:
-Rising, did they not have full script draft that got leaked out. Sounds like they have more than enough information to work with for an adventure module.
-Sentinels, we have unused designs and script outlines available from 30years ago, IIRC Script Outlines existed in Art 3. Again material they can work with. Given each "week" IIRC would focus on a new world, we could see SBs for each world covered that fleshed out (though more likely see it as a single book)
-Academy, again we have some designs portrayed as part of the kickstarter, not to mention some plot points. We don't know what they haven't used to tease either.

Remember that a press release is no guarantee of Harmony Gold's approval or the book's eventual delivery (Spaceships anyone?).

I agree, but if we are looking at generating list(s) of what they can potentially cover either optimistically or pessimistically it is certainly more than 2 books as you suggest since Palladium is floating ideas you aren't considering. In all likely hood though some of the ideas can probably be folded into single books.

[Seto Kaiba]

And neither is the lack of the book so far some sort of proof that the book is impossible.

So far, there's nothing to support the contention that Palladium has a free hand again.

You were claiming that there was nothing original here. Now your claiming that there is....but its not enough.

No, please read the entire post. I said the same thing I had before, in a slightly different way.

Specifically, that we're not seeing "original" material in the RPG... just recycled content from decades ago and concepts which have official precedent being expounded upon. There isn't a sufficient body of untapped material to keep the game going, and there isn't anything confirmed to be forthcoming from the IP holders.

As was demonstrated with the simple easy example of how the RPG has already made something up vis-à-vis the Genesis Pits that is not in any previous material and is not supported by anything outside of the books themselves.

The problem is that example is demonstrably not what you claim it to be... the Genesis Pits content is very much still in the official material sandbox, conceptually.

Simply because they have abandoned a project for animation, or canceled a comic does not mean for instance that the idea can not be turned into a game book.

So far, 2E hasn't permitted it... that's why we got Marines, or "faffing about in the vicinity of Sentinels without actually being a Sentinels book". You're attempting to move the goalposts to undo a fallacy of your own making.

Given we are talking about an RPG adventure module, they might not need as much detail present to make it work like fully fleshed out scripts and such since presumably the module will be structured for the PCs to handle events and not NPCs (for practical purposes that is who characters in these works are).

As I noted above, so far they've stringently avoided touching on cancelled projects directly... like what was done with the Marines book, which was "Sentinels-adjacent" so they could use the aliens from Prelude and the Imai files designs without touching on Sentinels proper. They have a history of burying/disavowing failed projects too (e.g. Robotech 3000, Untold Story), so my guess would be Academy would be off the table.

I agree, but if we are looking at generating list(s) of what they can potentially cover either optimistically or pessimistically it is certainly more than 2 books as you suggest since Palladium is floating ideas you aren't considering. In all likely hood though some of the ideas can probably be folded into single books.

... actually, looking at it, I suspect that the ideas floated are actually going to mature into the latter two of the three possibilities I tabled.

[ShadowLogan]

As I noted above, so far they've stringently avoided touching on cancelled projects directly... like what was done with the Marines book, which was "Sentinels-adjacent" so they could use the aliens from Prelude and the Imai files designs without touching on Sentinels proper. They have a history of burying/disavowing failed projects too (e.g. Robotech 3000, Untold Story), so my guess would be Academy would be off the table.

Eventually though they will run out of material which leaves them with very few options to continue forward:
-release another reboot/revised editions of existing material
-pluck projects that they have rights to, even disavowed stuff. That probably leaves out Untold Story (Megazone 23 rights), but would leave 3k (likely avoided due to setting period), Academy, Rising, Sentinels, and numerous comic lines (though not likely the Voltron cross over, Revel's Defenders, and at minimum aspects of others with legal sticking points)
-loosen the reigns and allow Palladium some ability to create material for the RPG setting
-produce new material themselves for the RPG to work off of, even if it doesn't get released in traditional mediums

[Chronicler]

As I noted above, so far they've stringently avoided touching on cancelled projects directly... like what was done with the Marines book, which was "Sentinels-adjacent" so they could use the aliens from Prelude and the Imai files designs without touching on Sentinels proper. They have a history of burying/disavowing failed projects too (e.g. Robotech 3000, Untold Story), so my guess would be Academy would be off the table.

Eventually though they will run out of material which leaves them with very few options to continue forward:
-release another reboot/revised editions of existing material
-pluck projects that they have rights to, even disavowed stuff. That probably leaves out Untold Story (Megazone 23 rights), but would leave 3k (likely avoided due to setting period), Academy, Rising, Sentinels, and numerous comic lines (though not likely the Voltron cross over, Revel's Defenders, and at minimum aspects of others with legal sticking points)
-loosen the reigns and allow Palladium some ability to create material for the RPG setting
-produce new material themselves for the RPG to work off of, even if it doesn't get released in traditional mediums

You know I actually did like the ship and power loader from 3k. They could still use some of those assets from that and the others. Just drop the story line and come up with something else.

[Seto Kaiba]

Eventually though they will run out of material which leaves them with very few options to continue forward: [...]

Likely sooner rather than later, considering that they've been padding the new books since the New Generation sourcebook. The one large gap that's left uncovered for which there is unambiguous material is spaceships.

-release another reboot/revised editions of existing material

Possible, but unlikely IMO... as nice as it would be to clear up the typos and inconsistencies that resulted from the "moving target" official setting.

-pluck projects that they have rights to, even disavowed stuff. That probably leaves out Untold Story (Megazone 23 rights), but would leave 3k (likely avoided due to setting period), Academy, Rising, Sentinels, and numerous comic lines (though not likely the Voltron cross over, Revel's Defenders, and at minimum aspects of others with legal sticking points)

Potentially... but it depends how much of that material they're willing to use (or consider safe for use). They mined Sentinels for the UEEF Marines book, but the only parts they actually took were the concepts for the Destroid updates and the alien races that still exist in canon. It's unknown how far they got with Shadow Rising, but it's doubtful they have enough material to do much more than stat out the Super versions and make some vague allusions to Haydonite goals. Academy died on the wire before they could get any further than some rough designs, and considering how the designs went over poorly with fans I can't quite see a situation where they'd approve their use. It's especially doubtful they'd approve Palladium doing its own thing with either, as their reps still claim those projects haven't been given up for dead yet (despite Creavision and the USPTO's attestation to the contrary).

The old comics are kind of a minefield... there's some potentially usable content, but they've been disowned and they'd have to vet each and every issue to ensure that they didn't accidentally instruct Palladium to adapt copyright-infringing material. (There was a lot of that in the old comics, which I suspect was more a motive for HG disowning them than their perceived poor quality.)

-loosen the reigns and allow Palladium some ability to create material for the RPG setting
-produce new material themselves for the RPG to work off of, even if it doesn't get released in traditional mediums

Considering the biggest bullet point in 2E was keeping Palladium on a short leash to prevent the problems that emerged as the result of giving them free reign and no support, HG's management is probably gonna dig their heels in and resist giving Palladium free reign over the RPG's content.

Harmony Gold could produce new material... it'd be fairly easy, esp. since Tommy and co. are basically sitting on their hands now that the live action movie Sony isn't making is the last hope for reviving the franchise. It'd take some arm twisting, because they seem especially committed to their hand-sitting, but that could be done.

[gaby]

I also like to see a Book giving more info about the Aliens,ther Homeworlds,Governments and Militaries.

[ShadowLogan]

possible, but unlikely IMO... as nice as it would be to clear up the typos and inconsistencies that resulted from the "moving target" official setting.

Well typos don't require revised/reboot, they can be addressed in later print runs (Palladium is known to do "shadow updates" like this). Depending on the inconsistency it might also be covered by later print run. I'm thinking more along the lines of making extensive revisions/alterations that warrant being mentioned (in Rifts there are several revised volumes, that is what I am getting at). While it is unlikely, I can sort of see HG doing that since a lot of RT products they do essentially "revise/reboot/rehash".

Considering the biggest bullet point in 2E was keeping Palladium on a short leash to prevent the problems that emerged as the result of giving them free reign and no support, HG's management is probably gonna dig their heels in and resist giving Palladium free reign over the RPG's content.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying HG would give up its "final approval" of what ever Palladium would generate in this avenue, they can still say "no that doesn't work for Robotech/us". I'm just saying that PB could fill in the holes that exist that rpg-/RT-fans want and HG can still decide to go with it or not instead of making HG come up with the answers on their own.

Potentially... but it depends how much of that material they're willing to use (or consider safe for use)...

Re: Old Comics. I can honestly say I am not familiar with them, I just tossed that out as a potential source. I am aware that some of the legalistic mine-field they represent, so HG would need to be heavily involved in that end in the specifics of what can be used in a given issue/series. Given the amount of resources they would have to spend on this avenue, I can't see it happening.

Re: Sentinels. I think design wise they've mined it pretty well, though they might still be able to get some more out of it by fleshing out the Sentinel worlds more. Most of the UEEF hardware that was to be in Sentinels though was rehash (beyond the Destroids and GMU).

Re: Rising & Academy. I was under the impression (I think it was you who pointed it out) that Rising had a script (final or draft) that had been leaked. Even the basic premise of Academy could be used. For either they would take the script/material and use it as the basis for an adventure module, maybe even "fixing" things to make it more RPG module friendly or appealing (since this is more a "sandbox" than "fixed").

[gaby]

Do any one think Palladium books will make a Book with Adventures ideas?
May Macross saga das not have any.

[Kagashi]

3 - A "sentinels" era book would be able to use all the stuff from Imai files that hasn't been used yet (The other Alpha like "destroids" and variants) as well as details on the various Sentinel worlds and timeline of the era.

I'd title it, "The Robotech Relief Expedition", detailing on the Tokugawa capital ships that would have launched with the SDF-2 in 2014. Sort of a scouting party before the Pioneer Mission was ready for launch in 2029.

[ShadowLogan]

Not sure if we need female arming doublets as ASC armor doesn't seem to care stat wise if you are male or female, unlike the UEEF. So at best its a visual thing.

You did miss a few things:
Carpenter Fighter AFAIK (Alpha derived?), UEEF/TASC or just plain UEEF
Tirolian Hovercraft (all of which could form the basis of conventional combat vehicles)
--Van (Bowie/Louie/Musica)
--APC (transport prisoners like the 2 muses)
--flatbed pick-up (rescue of ZP)
--guard transport (open air cockpit, used to break 15th out of jail by Musica, Sean/Angelo used it to take them to their target in guard uniforms, etc)

Tirolian Spheres:
--Test Article for Trimuvoid System in the Invid Fighter (could be adapted and used in other areas)
--the Spy Drone (seen in "The Trap" communicating w/a Terminator IINM)

Haydonite "ice cream cone" shuttle from 1E Sentinels RPG (could be given to someone else) AFAIK

[mech798]

Capital ships-- not just that but smaller fold-capable ships since they are explicitly called out in the UEEF book as ships small units might use. Seriously, the reprints in that book were annoying--they sort of left out things that teh book itself said would be commonly used.

[Norlion]

I think the next sourcebook should be and RDF field manual covering from 2011-2023. Roughly half the book could cover setting, such as 10 pages each covering North America, South America, Africa, Europe and E.B.S.I.S, Asia, and Australia and Oceania. The rest could cover plot hooks, address stats for Earth Defenders mecha from GHQ and suggest Malcontent vs. RDF, E.B.S.I.S. vs. RDF, and minor powers v. Malcontent scenarios. These could also be tied into Robotech Tactics. Material from previous Robotech books covers North America, South America and Indo-china, but the other parts of the world could make for some interesting role-playing and tactics battles. Since models exist for Macross Era mecha and pre-Macross Era war-fighting equipment (via GHQ) I think this can be leveraged to make the role-playing more fun. How many T-72's does it take to destroy a Zentradi battlepod? Wave 2 mecha could be incorporated as well, along with some of the ASC (as it is developed). I don't think we need lots of new mecha, just more and interesting ways to use current mecha.

[jaymz]

Prototype Cyclone
Excaliber Battloid
Raider Battloid
Shark Battloid
Gladiator Battloid
MAC II
GMU Dropship

Covered or replaced by material in UEEF Marines and I THINK you mean MAC III since the MAC II was originally the MOnster in Book of the 1st edition RPG

ASC Battlecruiser
Tirolian Heavy Cruiser

Tristar is convered in Masters Era. (ASC Battlecruiser?)

Ikazuchi-type Heavy Cruiser

In hardcover edition of the RPG

While I agree a "lot" is missing, some of it is a single scene flash or frankly not that desirable to have in the game anyway.

I still only see MAYBE 4 books

Ships 1 - Earth
Ships 2 - Enemies
Reconstruction Era
Expedition Era

All four of those could easily cover all missing material.

And before anyone starts going on about a colonies book again, sans any actual evidence in the show that the colonies do in fact exist in any significant way, those too could be covered in a large enough Expedition Era book.

[jaymz]

It is also irrelevant if YOU do not believe the former sentinels destroids/batlloids are replaced with the material in ueef marines. The FACT is they have been. Get over it.

Additionally the unit in sentinels is the mac iii not ii (the monster was called the mac ii in the original rpg ) unless you talking some obscure reference no one else generally has access too. I have seen the animation, multiple times for just this reason, and while very similar it is not the same unit. (misding two top barrels is pretty signifucant if you ask me)

So a ship bigger than the tristar yet smaller than a tokugawa....first i have heard of it from anyone but you.

And a ship that js not an ikazuchi at all. Got it.

As for the rest, fact is a number of items you repeatedly declare are needed just aren't as they are mundane and not NEEDED. Wanted by you perhaps, and maybe a few others, but not NEEDED.

It also doesn't change the fact we could at most 4 more books out of what limited material we have.

[ShadowLogan]

Additionally the unit in sentinels is the mac iii not ii (the monster was called the mac ii in the original rpg ) unless you talking some obscure reference no one else generally has access too.

The 1E RPG Mac3 (MAC III) IS referred to as the Mac2 (MAC II) in the Legacy DVD Extras (specifically E3/Sentinels OVA DVD that also has some Sentinels Lineart #20 in Mecha pre-production). For some reason they are using the "Matchbox names", and the 1E RPG Spartan and Gladiator have their names switched between mecha designs on this DVD, the Condor is also called the Invader (much better name IMHO).

Where else the design known as the Mac3 in the 1E RPG might be considered the Mac2 I don't know. The DVD extras might or might not count as obscure reference.

So a ship bigger than the tristar yet smaller than a tokugawa....first i have heard of it from anyone but you.

I don't think he said it was bigger than a tristar, yet smaller than a Tok. I believe RSCF is refering to ship(s) that appear w/the Tri-Star in the animation. IINM in the animation the Tri-Star is a singular ship of that class, as we see others operating with her that are not Tri-Stars or Tokugawas. Due to design aesthetic, the ships are most noticeable in the main-engine/drive area in the rear (paired, two different set of quads and one appears with another pair of "secondaries"). Something that would be lumped into a dedicated ships book(s) in any case.

[jaymz]

And for everyone who does not own the "Legacy" set that is impossible to know (I have the Protoculture set and will check to see if it is the same there but either way it is not the most common source of reference for that unit)

Most people, generally speaking, would think a battlecruiser would be larger than a large cruiser (tristar) and smaller than a battleship (Tokugawa) so perhaps he should be more clear on what he is saying or just call it a "tristar" sized variant if that is what he means.

[jaymz]

I am all for more material...heel I have tried myself to add material on my own (rewriting old 1st ed material for use in 2nd ed) but some of the "forgotten" material is not really worth the effort unless you have a lot more substantive stuff to go with it thus why I said most (if not all) could be included in the books I mentioned above otherwise some of it is just not actually NEEDED though it is desired/wanted by some.

[ShadowLogan]

And for everyone who does not own the "Legacy" set that is impossible to know (I have the Protoculture set and will check to see if it is the same there but either way it is not the most common source of reference for that unit)

Not going to argue over the point, I'm just saying that is the one location I know it exists as such. How commonly known it is I don't know. My understanding of the Protoculture Set is was supposed to have the Legacy Extras with it, the only difference was the 85ep is remastered/cut. Not sure about what ever version they are up to now due to TSC and/or LLA.

Most people, generally speaking, would think a battlecruiser would be larger than a large cruiser (tristar) and smaller than a battleship (Tokugawa) so perhaps he should be more clear on what he is saying or just call it a "tristar" sized variant if that is what he means.

Not sure that is the case here though. "Battlecruiser" is the term the audio uses to describe one of the ships not covered yet, so by the dialogue RSCF is not incorrect in calling it a "battlecruiser", just like saying the Garfish is an SDF by the dialogue (Lancer in "Ghost Town" IIRC).

I said most (if not all) could be included in the books I mentioned above otherwise some of it is just not actually NEEDED though it is desired/wanted by some.

Not disputing that some items would be lumped in with broad categories of books proposed to date. What qualifies as needed or not in print is more up to HG/PB, all we can do is provide a list(s) of "canon" material to exploit for future works. We do have to remember that the animation for each era has focus in certain areas, which can mean some things that get presented might be "needed" for something like the RPG, but are just "one-[scene/episode]-shots" due to focus/storyline.

Examples would be the Carpenter Fighter and Wolfe Flashback fighter. The CF is a UEEF fighter, and apparently a mainstay in the fleet given the numbers the Tok. carried. Same goes for the WFBF, it is presented as an important fighter (possibly the type that lead to Wolfe's fame), but both are more needed for certain era/location than others. Or what about the Eye-Bot the Terminator works with in "The Trap" (IIRC) when it spies on Angelo's team, having established game stats means we can know how to use them with the Terminator for maximum effect. Not really important for a TMS or NG-era game, but certainly useful for Sentinels (possibly) and TRM-era.

[jaymz]

Significant things I get. The fighters are important as they would be in use widely (since the Alpha apparently wasn't *for obvious reasons in the animation to be sure*). As for the battlecruiser...it is hard enough to come up with info on the ship we readily accept as existing in ASC (Battle, banshee, tristar, tokugawa)...to add another that may or may not exist solely as a piece of dialogue is pushing it.

I think we would be better to list what we think COULD be accepted as existing by HG than throwing everything and anything at the wall to just see what we can get to stick.


EDIT - and sorry I wasn't meaning to argue about the discs...i was just pointing out not everyone has them so using as a sort of "common" reference is just not true. I still have to check my PC edition ones.

[eliakon]

For ships....
Please remember that things like Cruiser/Battle Cruiser/Etc. cover multiple ship classes....
So you can have several different battle cruisers, several different Cruisers, several different SDFs (apparently it is now a ship class too).....

[ShadowLogan]

EDIT - and sorry I wasn't meaning to argue about the discs...i was just pointing out not everyone has them so using as a sort of "common" reference is just not true. I still have to check my PC edition ones.

not a problem really, even if people have them there is no guarantee that they do much with the extras content or even noticed the name change in this case since it was with roman numeral type (II, III, V, etc) instead of alpha-numeric characters (1, 2, 3, etc). It isn't like the "apparent" mix up with the Gladiator and Spartan Destroid names for the period, or Invader/Condor mix up by current standards (though I still think Invader is a better name than Condor here). And it isn't like things get missed in the animation either that are sometimes noticed and "discovered" even years later.

The fighters are important as they would be in use widely (since the Alpha apparently wasn't *for obvious reasons in the animation to be sure*).

Wolfe's fighter is likely distinct and should be covered. Given some superficial similarities between the Alpha and the Carpenter Fighter, I could see them being connected and present in the animation as "poorly drawn" Alphas or a new model of Alpha (I do not wish to side track this discussion here).

it is hard enough to come up with info on the ship we readily accept as existing in ASC (Battle, banshee, tristar, tokugawa

To be clear I think the battlecruiser referenced in the dialogue is a ship type with another fan name since alot of ships in the dialogue don't have names. Now what RSCF is referring to specifically I'm not sure, there might be another ship type that has been missed previously.

I looked at the uRRG's "additional design notes", and they do have the Japanese name of the "Battle" types as "Unknown Battlecruiser", so RSCF could be using OSM naming to when you are using uRRG naming.

We'll have to wait until RSCF posts to clear these two matters up.

[Norlion]

What do you think of a 1:6000 game with the ships to have models to accompany the sourcebook?

[taalismn]

Aren't they doing a DL-88 Centipede Truck miniature for Robotech RPG Tactics? In which case it needs to be statted out for the RPG; it's both large enough to be mecha scale, and important enough to be a player vehicle(as opposed to donkey engines and tanker trailers).
I dismiss the megadamage tuna truck as a bad attempt to replace the DL-88.....
Honestly, an armored sushi van?

But the DL-88 COULD be inserted into any book on offworld outposts like Mars or the Moon, since the vehicle is apparently environmentally sealed enough to operate on Mars, and if the design is rugged and basic enough, could be operating well into the Southern Cross period.

Then again, I may be the only advocate of the forgotten DL-88 in these boards....

[jaymz]

Ok point by point..

A - "Mac II" No it does not. The mecha in LLA only has a single barrel on top. You are seeing what you choose to see. The animatic had a 3 barreled version but the actual production animation did not. This conversation has been covered in another thread already.

B - Your OPINION of the Marines mecha are irrelevant. They exist. The old Sentinels ones no longer do whether they appear in dvd extras or Robotech 3, regardless of if you believe they do or not. They are materials from something that has been removed from canon beyond the generalities of the events. THAT is fact as handed down from HG whether YOU like it or not.

C - MAC II - Not everyone has access to Legacy Set DVDs or Robotech Art 3. Good for you if you do. Also I never stated the Macross Saga actually HAD a MAC II, I said the original 1st ed RPG called the MONSTER the MAC II.(In fact that is why "MAC II" is called MAC III in the old Sentinels RPG and the Strike Force book has a "Mini-Mac"). I never said it was accurate, just that that was what they called it back then

D - Battlecruiser - If you had said this to begin with rather than just "battlecruiser" then I would have likely not said anything, but regardless you are still the only person I know banging this particular drum to begin with.

Mind you had you bothered to actually look at posts after mine before responding as you have, you would have seen that shadowlogan and I covered C and D already to some degree.

E - I know the "other" ships that can be used for Mospeade/New Gen....they may be Ikazuchi similar but they are not the same beyond sharing a couple of similar elements so I maintain it is not an Ikazuchi at all but it mat be similar.

F - I never said we needed those items now did I? No. There is plenty I do not think was needed in the books but they are there regardless. I prefer to not add MORE that is not needed. Please do NOT put words in my mouth that I have never spoken.

As for the rest, you believe what you wish. However I will point out, unlike what you like to purport about me only bowing down to Macross, I fully support advancing, expanding, and supporting ALL of Robotech and I have done so myself in any number of ways over the years. All of which has been a lot more than complaining everywhere I can on the internet about it. I have actually DONE something about it in order to build and support a community for ALL of Robotech.

[eliakon]

I would like to make a note here on ships....
In real navies ships tend not to be cookie cutters of each other. Each one often ends up with slightly different lines due to various refits, changes in design during build, repairs, etc.
This is one reason that Ship Recognition guides exist. As I understand it in battles like WWII it was often possible to identify the exact ship of a class that was being engaged by looking at its profiles. So a minor difference in a ship would not mean its not a Tri-Star class for instance. Just that it might be a -C variant or a -Lunar Yard version. Or even "The Pleiades, which got gutted out and rebuilt as a test bed for Bu-Ships but is still in service due to the need for vessels in the battle of <where ever>. It has a unique beam armament centered around its experimental....."

[glitterboy2098]

example:
the Arleigh Burke class, and it's "flight's"
each batch of ships built had different tonnages and hull lengths, with different sets of sensors, computers, and so on. while modernization kept the older hulls competitive as the years went by, you still had a single class of ship with 4+ different visual profiles. (4 build batches.. plus various levels of modernization)

[jaymz]

Ok David I will again go point by point

NO, IT DOES NOT. Pat Mosquera (the fella that animated it), released a clip of it before it was blurred out. Its got all 3 barrels on top.

And AS I SAID ABOVE that is a PREPRODUCTION piece not final animation. AND as I SAID ABOVE this was ALREADY DISCUSSED IN ANOTHER THREAD. I would think YOU would know the difference between preproduction and final production.

You still don't get it. The Marines mecha DON'T APPEAR IN ANIMATED FORM!

Funny you should say that because oddly enough NEITHER DO THE SENTINELS MECHA...the difference? HG APPROVED the Marines designs while mecha you claim exist come from materials that have since been decanonized BY HG THEMSELVES (you know the reboot that decanonized all Sentinels material except the general concept of the EVENTS occurring.). The fact you do not agree or like that they did that does NOT CHANGE REALITY.

Its what its called in the show. If you actually bothered to, I dunno, WATCH the middle chapter before commenting on it maybe you would have known that......

And maybe if you would be consistent in applying what only amounts to lines of dialogue in your arguments, (ie dismissing dialogue when it does not support your arguments, but banging the IT IS IN THE DIALOGUE SO MUST EXIST drum when it DOES support your arguments) I and a number of others would take you more seriously now as opposed to usually just ignoring you.

I won't bother to mention that I myself wrote or rewrote much of the ASC era material WELL before Palladium ever did (some of which based on information provided by you no less, including your VF-7 Sylphid Veritech) but by all means keep claiming otherwise about me.

Yea...sure, if by Robotech you mean Macross....whatever.

Right...writing up IMAI file materials (you know NOT Macross) well before Palladium ever heard of the file, rewriting erroneous material for all eras before Palladium had even let the original license go, being inclusive of fan materials and information (again this includes your own VF-7 Sylphid), creating and maintaining a Facebook group for ROBOTECH (that included discussing New Gen as well as Masters at times and including at one point your Robotech d6 Project), the direct support and help I have given to Robotech Tactics until a few months ago via creation of a fan forum, a fan run wiki, as well as doing material that went well beyond Macross so people could play ALL eras, and including helping vet new rules and errata/correct already existing ones...

Yeah...Macross only indeed....

No, my actions show I support ALL of Robotech, not JUST my favourite era. Too bad I cannot say the same for some other people.

[ShadowLogan]

A - "Mac II" No it does not. The mecha in LLA only has a single barrel on top. You are seeing what you choose to see. The animatic had a 3 barreled version but the actual production animation did not. This conversation has been covered in another thread already.

&

NO, IT DOES NOT. Pat Mosquera (the fella that animated it), released a clip of it before it was blurred out. Its got all 3 barrels on top.

I have to agree with jaymz that the mecha in question is not the Sentinels version. That said, it could easily be portrayed as a variant of the Sentinels unit in question.

RSCF do you have a direct link to the clip or even a quote?

B - Your OPINION of the Marines mecha are irrelevant. They exist. The old Sentinels ones no longer do whether they appear in dvd extras or Robotech 3, regardless of if you believe they do or not. They are materials from something that has been removed from canon beyond the generalities of the events. THAT is fact as handed down from HG whether YOU like it or not.

Regardless of their current canon status though, those designs are available for HG to use/re-use. I am not saying that those designs must be used for the UEEF/REF, they could be remade to belong to just about any faction/sub-faction (new or old) in the current continuity. The fact remains HG/PB can use the material.

You still don't get it. The Marines mecha DON'T APPEAR IN ANIMATED FORM!

If you want to get technical though, neither do the majority of the Sentinels Destroids (I include the Zentreadi here to). The Sentinels OVA only had the Zentreadi TBP, and LLA only has a variant of the MAC design. That leaves out the (1E RPG naming) Excal, Gladiator, Raider-X, Spartan, and Zentreadi OBP. Given Sentinels status, I'm not sure if we can still even point to the OVA for facts.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

I have to agree with jaymz that the mecha in question is not the Sentinels version. That said, it could easily be portrayed as a variant of the Sentinels unit in question.

For God's sake, you can SEE all 5 barrels even in the grainy/blurry version when it lights off its cannons....

If you want to get technical though, neither do the majority of the Sentinels Destroids (I include the Zentreadi here to). The Sentinels OVA only had the Zentreadi TBP, and LLA only has a variant of the MAC design. That leaves out the (1E RPG naming) Excal, Gladiator, Raider-X, Spartan, and Zentreadi OBP. Given Sentinels status, I'm not sure if we can still even point to the OVA for facts.

Except the claim for years on end by certain board members was that HG was barred from using those designs because of SDF Macross...we now know that is complete and utter baloney....

[ShadowLogan]

For God's sake, you can SEE all 5 barrels even in the grainy/blurry version when it lights off its cannons....

Not going to discuss it here. I have no problem with it being a 5 or 3 barrel version of the same mecha. The tricky part of frame-by-frame analysis is that it can create motion artifacts where an item/limb appears in multiple locations. I am not saying that is what is happening here, but it is one possibility barring official statements.

Except the claim for years on end by certain board members was that HG was barred from using those designs because of SDF Macross...we now know that is complete and utter baloney....

Not what I am getting at though. You claim they are in the animation, but the reality is only at best 2 out of 7 of the designs you are calling for actually appear in the animation. And one is an animation source that may or may not be canon any more which would reduce it to maybe 1 out of 7, and even that 1 is subject to some dispute. So if being in the animation is a primary concern, then you really only have maybe one or two designs to justify.

Personally I don't own Marines (yet), but I have seen the artwork up on Deviant Art. I have to say that for the most part the Sent Destroid replacements, they do have that UEEF design atheistic we see in known UEEF mecha designs. The only poor choice was the Monster variant (in general I'd also add the Golem and Valiant), and specifically the bladed weapon on the Tomahawk (but otherwise it has that UEEF look that IS lacking from the Sentinels REF hardware).

[glitterboy2098]

You still don't get it. The Marines mecha DON'T APPEAR IN ANIMATED FORM!

Neither does a transforming Sylphide and Condor, but that hasn't kept you from trying to get that jet fighter and destroid made into veritechs based on basically no evidence at all.

you don't get t have it both ways. either the game can include material that doesn't actually appear in the show, or it can't.

make up your mind.

[Jefffar]

This one's headed downhill fast.