Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
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- drewkitty ~..~
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Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
I know it is outside the concept presented in the RWB SA1 but I was wondering how you all would handle using the MS tattoos when mimicking SDC races? ....when someone is using them to mimic someone of their own race?
My 1st assumption would be that the user would need to be ether slightly smaller then the projected individual, or that the projection would automatically adjust itself to be slightly bigger then the user.
But I would really like to hear about how you would handle the combining of the attributes & xDC.
My 1st assumption would be that the user would need to be ether slightly smaller then the projected individual, or that the projection would automatically adjust itself to be slightly bigger then the user.
But I would really like to hear about how you would handle the combining of the attributes & xDC.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
- eliakon
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Re: Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I know it is outside the concept presented in the RWB SA1 but I was wondering how you all would handle using the MS tattoos when mimicking SDC races? ....when someone is using them to mimic someone of their own race?
My 1st assumption would be that the user would need to be ether slightly smaller then the projected individual, or that the projection would automatically adjust itself to be slightly bigger then the user.
But I would really like to hear about how you would handle the combining of the attributes & xDC.
The book already covers SDC shells.
look at the racial stats. Then look at the persons stats. You use the higher of the racial max or their current stat for the physical statistics.
The shell will have the SDC of the shown shell (use racial numbers) to a maximum of 1,000 SDC.
PPE to activate is 30 PPE
And if you cant fit in the shell, then you cant summon it. The book is explicit that the racial disguise desired must be larger than the Tattooed Man. This is not an option and it does not allow for the shell to be 'stretched' to fit. If you want a shell of something your size or smaller then you need to shrink. Period.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- drewkitty ~..~
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Re: Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
okay....that question is Do you use the Maximum stats of the racial range (as the animal and monster tattoos use) when comparing attributes? So if the tattoo is of the same race as the user would the stats just be bumped up to the racial max?
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
- eliakon
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- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
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Re: Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:okay....that question is Do you use the Maximum stats of the racial range (as the animal and monster tattoos use) when comparing attributes? So if the tattoo is of the same race as the user would the stats just be bumped up to the racial max?
The book says "use the maximum" So a tattoo of a human would provide PS 18, PP 18, PE 18 and I believe SDC 20? (I can not recall off the top of my head what the SDC of a 'normal human' is) and costs 30 PPE.
Since it does not say to use extraordinary statistics, and since the exemplars never do I would likewise figure that it uses the simple listed dice and not any 'explodes'
And of course this is only while the tattoo is active since it is, basically a buff spell/magic power armor rolled in one.
And yes, before someone tries....if you use a Tattoo of a Hunter cat you either only get 1000 SDC since it says 1000 SDC is the maximum or it wont work since the racial SDC is 1,800 which is over the listed amount. Possibly if the GM is feeling nice they could let you use the MDC creature cost for SDC beings with more than 1000 SDC.
And no, I would not allow someone to get a 1000 SDC tattoo and then try and use it in an SDC world to get a 1/5 price break on DC. I would, personally rule that in such a world that ALL the tattoos cost the price of a monster with MDC equal to their DC. If asked why I would say that the weaker magic and lesser universal underlying matrixes means that you need more energy to stabilize the field. (I would also warn them about what happens to munchkins in my games.....)
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- drewkitty ~..~
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Re: Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
Okay I see it now. It was not with the other text talking about comparing the attributes scores.
3d6 mining max = 18
Exploding dice are only for PCs.
SDC bonus = SDC+HP.....effectively doubling them. (but you wouldn't let peeps Go munchy)
Hunter cat...*smirks*....nope. quite a few less then that.
But the for fun char build, cat ears and a furry tail the char has.
--------
You opinions on....
clothes....
if the being is depicted with clothes would it be a part of the projection?
If the being is depicted with Armor would it need to be considered to be a power tattoo to get an MDC rating.?
{would use the same stats as the bloke in full armor tat.]
(yes, yes, non-canon and munchkinish, but the Magic weapons have combination options and I am just expecting a 'no'. and I have no plans for playing this char.)
3d6 mining max = 18
Exploding dice are only for PCs.
SDC bonus = SDC+HP.....effectively doubling them. (but you wouldn't let peeps Go munchy)
Hunter cat...*smirks*....nope. quite a few less then that.
But the for fun char build, cat ears and a furry tail the char has.
--------
You opinions on....
clothes....
if the being is depicted with clothes would it be a part of the projection?
If the being is depicted with Armor would it need to be considered to be a power tattoo to get an MDC rating.?
{would use the same stats as the bloke in full armor tat.]
(yes, yes, non-canon and munchkinish, but the Magic weapons have combination options and I am just expecting a 'no'. and I have no plans for playing this char.)
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
- eliakon
- Palladin
- Posts: 9093
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
- Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
- Contact:
Re: Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Okay I see it now. It was not with the other text talking about comparing the attributes scores.
3d6 mining max = 18
Exploding dice are only for PCs.
I would not say that....but I would say that they are not available for tattoos or other 'normal/baseline' considerations.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:SDC bonus = SDC+HP.....effectively doubling them. (but you wouldn't let peeps Go munchy)
It does say SDC so no HP just the SDC of the race....if it allowed you to add the HP of the race to your shell's SDC it would say that in the description. It doesn't, it clearly says that the shell has the SDC of the depicted being....so yah, just the SDC.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Hunter cat...*smirks*....nope. quite a few less then that.
But the for fun char build, cat ears and a furry tail the char has.
--------
You opinions on....
clothes....
if the being is depicted with clothes would it be a part of the projection?
No, the clothes are not part of the creature and are not included...in fact I question if it can be depicted with clothes....the tattoo is the being not 'the being and clothing' and since weapons have to have special changes to be drawn differently......
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:If the being is depicted with Armor would it need to be considered to be a power tattoo to get an MDC rating.?
{would use the same stats as the bloke in full armor tat.]
Being in armor would do nothing....it isn't the Power Tattoo of invincibility and will not provide any armor. As I said before I do not think it is possible to draw the tattoo in armor. Especially since that could be used as an end run around the system and opens up the argument that you can disguise tattoos by making them look like something else.....which I firmly reject.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:(yes, yes, non-canon and munchkinish, but the Magic weapons have combination options and I am just expecting a 'no'. and I have no plans for playing this char.)
Yeah, if you want to combine tattoos you need tattoos that can be combined. Weapons have that ability....nothing else says they do, so they don't.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- drewkitty ~..~
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Re: Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
Exploding dice comment was made in reference to what was being talked about.
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The SDC shell, yes I agree that the for shells mimicking SDC/HP beings the Shell's DC only is in SDC. However, the 30 PPE range is for up to 1000 SDC and/or HP. Which does indicate when talking about a "SDC" bonus DC you combine the SDC and HP if there are both. There is no text saying that the tattoo only provides the being's SDC. In fact, there is very little text covering what SDC the tattoo brings except for the the "30 PPE cost range" because the text as a whole talks as if they are going to be added to a MDC T-Man of some sort. And thus ignores talking about SDC/HP. The only other applicable test is the one about the max attributes and that is only by inference that the SDC&HP are maxed out too.
If you really wanted to get nit-picky the text never does say how much MDC the Tattoo shell has ether. It is only by inference within the Phy. Attributes section that the MDC is max'ed out with the other stats.
The Limitations section only sets the maximum limit on the MDC of the tattoo shell.
The text about the amount of DC in the DC shell the tattoo makes is below normal par for PB writing. As a whole the monster shaping is about par for normal PB writing.
-------
Clothing
Third Sentence of the 2nd paragraph in the RBoM text...
"mystic monster costume"
"with elements of illusion thrown in."
I would think there is enough leeway in the text for clothes to be a part of the tattoo.
-------
Armor
If you had noted How I Crafted the Question I had already thought that you'd need something other then the "Normal" monster shaping tattoo.
-------
No, was not "disguise" them. Was thinking versimultitued and about body taboos.
------
The SDC shell, yes I agree that the for shells mimicking SDC/HP beings the Shell's DC only is in SDC. However, the 30 PPE range is for up to 1000 SDC and/or HP. Which does indicate when talking about a "SDC" bonus DC you combine the SDC and HP if there are both. There is no text saying that the tattoo only provides the being's SDC. In fact, there is very little text covering what SDC the tattoo brings except for the the "30 PPE cost range" because the text as a whole talks as if they are going to be added to a MDC T-Man of some sort. And thus ignores talking about SDC/HP. The only other applicable test is the one about the max attributes and that is only by inference that the SDC&HP are maxed out too.
If you really wanted to get nit-picky the text never does say how much MDC the Tattoo shell has ether. It is only by inference within the Phy. Attributes section that the MDC is max'ed out with the other stats.
The Limitations section only sets the maximum limit on the MDC of the tattoo shell.
The text about the amount of DC in the DC shell the tattoo makes is below normal par for PB writing. As a whole the monster shaping is about par for normal PB writing.
-------
Clothing
Third Sentence of the 2nd paragraph in the RBoM text...
One might consider the monster shapes created by the tattoos to be a mystic monster costume or exoskeleton with elements of illusion thrown in.
"mystic monster costume"
"with elements of illusion thrown in."
I would think there is enough leeway in the text for clothes to be a part of the tattoo.
-------
Armor
If you had noted How I Crafted the Question I had already thought that you'd need something other then the "Normal" monster shaping tattoo.
-------
No, was not "disguise" them. Was thinking versimultitued and about body taboos.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
- eliakon
- Palladin
- Posts: 9093
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
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- Contact:
Re: Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Clothing
Third Sentence of the 2nd paragraph in the RBoM text...One might consider the monster shapes created by the tattoos to be a mystic monster costume or exoskeleton with elements of illusion thrown in.
"mystic monster costume"
"with elements of illusion thrown in."
I would think there is enough leeway in the text for clothes to be a part of the tattoo.
Yeah, the shell itself (the monster shape) is the costume with illusion. If you want a bonus illusion on top of it make up a new tattoo.
This is pretty clear from the statements that the Tattoo as written makes the tattoos visible on the skin, and that wearing clothing or armor restricts access to those tattoos.
If your clothing appeared as part of the Tattoo then either you would not be hiding the tattoos, you could reach through the clothing, or you are by passing a stated limitation.....either way it is not in line with the actual text from the book. But if you want clothing, go right ahead no one is going to make you, especially since you said you don't intend to ever play this character....
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:-------
Armor
If you had noted How I Crafted the Question I had already thought that you'd need something other then the "Normal" monster shaping tattoo.
If your making up your own imaginary house ruled tattoo then do what ever you want, no one can answer that at all.
If you want to ask about Monster Shaping tattoos (Which, you know what the thread was about) I gave you your answer.
Or to make it clearer so you can understand how "I am crafting the response"
Come right out and actually say what you want, don't try to weasel things around in inference and innuendo and then act surprised and hurt that people answer the question that you appear to be asking and not the one that you are asking if one sits down and applies some fancy word tricks and semantics to the problem. Because most people tend to assume that questions are going to be rather clear so as to be able to get an answer and not some complex trick to make other people look foolish if they don't agree with the asker.
To clarify
drewkitty ~..~ wrote: I know it is outside the concept presented in the RWB SA1 but I was wondering how you all would handle using the MS tattoos when mimicking SDC races? ....when someone is using them to mimic someone of their own race?
Does not say "so when I use a custom variant of the tattoo" or anything like that. It says "when you use the MS tattoo"
Thus when you "Crafted the question" it was about the normal tattoo.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- drewkitty ~..~
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Re: Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
With the armor question to start off with you didn't answer the question directly. What it appeared you were doing was to contenue with the answering the clothes question.
However, your input has been helpful. Thank You.
However, your input has been helpful. Thank You.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
- drewkitty ~..~
- Monk
- Posts: 17782
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
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Re: Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
Along in a similar vein about what was already discussed....
If a SDC/HP being has a MS Tattoo that is of a MDC being, how much MDC does the magic provide?
(had a hunt char in this situation and is wondering if things were handled correctly)
If a SDC/HP being has a MS Tattoo that is of a MDC being, how much MDC does the magic provide?
(had a hunt char in this situation and is wondering if things were handled correctly)
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
- eliakon
- Palladin
- Posts: 9093
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
- Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
- Contact:
Re: Monster Shaping Tattoos & new use?
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Along in a similar vein about what was already discussed....
If a SDC/HP being has a MS Tattoo that is of a MDC being, how much MDC does the magic provide?
(had a hunt char in this situation and is wondering if things were handled correctly)
I would probably substitute their SDC in for MDC in the formula (so SDCx2 is the maximum)
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."