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If a hand-to-hand skill gives you a bonus to auto-dodge, does that mean you have auto-dodge? I'm talking about Commando and a couple others from Japan.

That's how I've interpreted it.

Umm Commando does say it gives auto dodge at a certain level as does Akido, and the tengos martial art starts with it.
When I check page 73 cs war campaign auto dodge is gained at level 5 for comando.

Blue_Lion wrote:Umm Commando does say it gives auto dodge at a certain level as does Akido, and the tengos martial art starts with it.
When I check page 73 cs war campaign auto dodge is gained at level 5 for comando.

Thanks. Commando as described on Ultimate Edition p348-349 doesn't indicate when the character gains autododge, but does grant a bonus to the ability at 5th.

That is oddly enough generally how auto dodge shows up. When you get the first + to auto dodge you now have auto dodge. Like the various power armors that grant it it does not say grants auto dodge it always just says something like +2 to auto dodge or something of that nature.

How can you have a bonus to doing something if you can't do the very something you have a bonus to do?

Slight001 wrote:How can you have a bonus to doing something if you can't do the very something you have a bonus to do?

That is basically the orginal posters question

Blue_Lion wrote:

Slight001 wrote:How can you have a bonus to doing something if you can't do the very something you have a bonus to do?

That is basically the orginal posters question

Pretty much... thanks.

yup it is odd I agree but that is the way it has been done since the RUE. It never really says you have auto dodge it just says you have + whatever to auto dodge.

Now a spiteful person could argue that "you get a +2 bonus to autododge ... if you're capable of it"

(silly example)

It also says you get a Karate Kick Attack but that wouldn't apply to a character without legs ... so you get a +2 to autododge but that wouldn't apply to a character without autododge.

(silly example)

Of course like they said the original version in WB11 says he gets the ability at level 5

Incriptus wrote:Now a spiteful person could argue that "you get a +2 bonus to autododge ... if you're capable of it"

(silly example)

It also says you get a Karate Kick Attack but that wouldn't apply to a character without legs ... so you get a +2 to autododge but that wouldn't apply to a character without autododge.

(silly example)

Of course like they said the original version in WB11 says he gets the ability at level 5

As a GM, I would have played the "silly example", but as a player... never. I never actually read it in WB11, but now that I have, I will play it as it was written there.

It would indeed make a ton more sense if the stuff that gives you auto dodge just comes out and flat says you get auto dodge. Then have the actual bonuses to do it on top of that listed separately but that unfortunately has not been the convention of how they work it since RUE. Down side it seems weird but plus side its at least been consistent which cannot be said for all things in the system.

When auto dodge really starts getting messy is when you have a conversion charter from Ninjas & Superspies. As AutoI dodge from there requires your first action to activate and can be shut off by certain moves. In addition no hand to hand in there has a bonus to auto dodge.

(Is the plural form of ninja, ninja makes the title a type-o.)

N&SS is always a bit odd like that their hand to hand works similar to the other systems but there are some subtle differences that do take some converting when going elsewhere.

kaid wrote:N&SS is always a bit odd like that their hand to hand works similar to the other systems but there are some subtle differences that do take some converting when going elsewhere.

I think significant not subtle differences. Auto dodge works totally different hand to hands grand other skills and even mystical powers. Add many more types of moves.

Maybe auto-dodge bonuses if granted but without granting the ability only benefit those who gain the ability from another source, like if a Crazy learned Commando.

That's not entirely outlandish, but at the same time highly unlikely. There's no reason a normal person couldn't learn proper techniques over time to copy auto dodge. They don't get the ability until later after a fair amount if experience and training, while juicers and crazy OCC get it just by virtue of their class. Having commando would improve it as normal, of course.

I think the confusion came from the conversion from the original Rifts format to the RUE Rifts format. In the original rules once you got auto-dodge you generally just got the ability to do it using your standard dodge roll. When RUE came out they updated it so that auto-dodge was it's own stat that was generally lower then your basic dodge roll.

Possibly, though somehow I'd always assumed it used it's own bonuses even pre-RUE, heh.