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Hello all. I'm pretty new here, actually brand new.

I play a few games on OpenRPG, yes believe it or not a few of us still keep it alive there, and on Roll20. The only Palladium game I play, or played really, is Robotech. Not a lot of interest where I usually game though, sadly.

I'm seeking a Robotech or Macross game, very interested in a Macross Universe or Robotech TSC, Sentinels, or even New Generation game. I really like the ground mecha for TSC and New Gen. I think VT's are over done. I know. . . "Of course they are its Robotech". lol Well, at least those like the VF-1, AGAC's, and Alpha ( in their respective settings ).

I think it would be neat to play the ground game for once. A destroid squadron in the First Robotech War, or battloid squadron in the Third or Sentinels.

I actually thought of running a game set around a VM-9 Silverback unit ( kind of the the 15th Alpha Tactical Armored Corps (ATAC) of the Masters Saga, but set during Sentinels, New Generation, or TSC? ) , but i'm a horrible GM so I shot myself down lol.

Anyhow I'd really be interested in something like that. If anyone knows of any games running like that with openings I'd enjoy hearing about them. Or, if there's interest and a GM available I'd enjoy seeing a group form. Either playing on here or elsewhere, just let me know. Thanks

Welcome to the Forums! Sadly, in my area I am also lacking a Robotech group (or any group at all, thanks largely to the MMO craze). It stinks, but there's not a lot can be done about it if nobody is stepping up.

Personally, since I can't roleplay directly, I instead write on the boards here. The Robotech Crossover Question is my favorite, and we tend to cover a lot of ground with that.

Good luck finding a group, tho.

Nautica wrote:I play a few games on OpenRPG, yes believe it or not a few of us still keep it alive there, and on Roll20. The only Palladium game I play, or played really, is Robotech. Not a lot of interest where I usually game though, sadly.

Ah, yeah... that old chestnut. Palladium is kind of niche in the RPG industry, and Robotech is very much a niche title in anime, so finding players can be awfully difficult at times... especially if you're looking for a Masters Saga or New Generation game.

Nautica wrote:I'm seeking a Robotech or Macross game, very interested in a Macross Universe or Robotech TSC, Sentinels, or even New Generation game. I really like the ground mecha for TSC and New Gen. I think VT's are over done. I know. . . "Of course they are its Robotech". lol Well, at least those like the VF-1, AGAC's, and Alpha ( in their respective settings ).

A month or two down the road, I might be able to help you... my group regularly runs Macross universe games at once-a-week or biweekly sessions on our site's chat room, but we're on hiatus until the end of April due to it being new program launch season at our day jobs (and the premiere of Macross Δ later today is likely to steal some focus as well).

Our group hasn't really done much with ground mecha though. We did one campaign set during the UN Wars and briefly flirted with using RT2E for MOSPEADA, but otherwise most of our stuff has been set in space where ground mecha are kind of surplus to requirements.

Welcome!! I, unfortunately am in the Palladium Void here in King County, WA.

Seto wrote:Our group hasn't really done much with ground mecha though. We did one campaign set during the UN Wars and briefly flirted with using RT2E for MOSPEADA, but otherwise most of our stuff has been set in space where ground mecha are kind of surplus to requirements.

You might be able to still work them:
-ground mecha are deployed on the SDF-1 for defense on the hull even with the VFs flying about (even the ASC used a VHT in this manner), so they could be deployed on ship/station hulls for added defense with the VFs also deployed
-ground mecha are an integral component of the Deadelus Maneuver, and VHTs (ground mecha) are used to board the Masters Mothership in space. So some type of "boarding action" operation basically would be another way to work ground units in for a space based campaign, though a delivery mechanism is going to be needed (and the VFs in the group can act as escorts)
-known "ground mecha" are known to operate in space in the various settings (Regults,Glaugs, VHTs, Bioroids in their respective shows) by either an integrated option (Zent) or add-on (Masters/ASC). Depending on the setting you might have to hand-wave in something like the 1E RPG's Destroid Space-Pack (or simply have them use the boosters from the GBP-1S seen in "Miss Macross")

ShadowLogan wrote:You might be able to still work them:
-ground mecha are deployed on the SDF-1 for defense on the hull even with the VFs flying about (even the ASC used a VHT in this manner), so they could be deployed on ship/station hulls for added defense with the VFs also deployed

Well, yes... there were batteries of destroids stationed out on the hull of the Macross for air defense during the First Space War, but that kind of precludes involvement in any part of the battle besides air defense. Plus, y'know, outside of Macross II's "parallel world" continuity there are very few warships that actually carry destroids after the war. That, combined with their inability to "fly" in space, limits the stories where destroids can make a meaningful contribution. For my group, which tends to move around on the Macross timeline with each new campaign, that tends to limit destroid-relevant stories to the UN Wars and Neld Fleet Crisis of 2036.

ShadowLogan wrote:-ground mecha are an integral component of the Deadelus Maneuver, and VHTs (ground mecha) are used to board the Masters Mothership in space. So some type of "boarding action" operation basically would be another way to work ground units in for a space based campaign, though a delivery mechanism is going to be needed (and the VFs in the group can act as escorts)

Also true, but as I noted above that's a very limiting approach. The Daedalus Attack basically means the destroid pilot player is now stuck sitting around for 9/10ths of the combat. The ramship/boarding operation thing, you can get a lot of mileage out of that when you're working in the Macross II universe via the Daedalus II-class assault carriers, but otherwise it's kind of "we have a VF for that".

ShadowLogan wrote:-known "ground mecha" are known to operate in space in the various settings (Regults,Glaugs, VHTs, Bioroids in their respective shows) by either an integrated option (Zent) or add-on (Masters/ASC). Depending on the setting you might have to hand-wave in something like the 1E RPG's Destroid Space-Pack (or simply have them use the boosters from the GBP-1S seen in "Miss Macross")

Note carefully that, with one exception, those are all flight-capable examples you're citing.

The Zentradi Army mecha from Macross aren't really "ground mecha", as they're designed for operation in space and the vast majority of their actual operation is in space. They're more like "ground-capable space mecha" rather than vice versa. The Bioroid from Southern Cross had the biover for flight.

Because of its emphasis on space combat, Macross is a very difficult setting to work ground mecha combat into without having to really bend over backwards to accommodate the ground mecha. If your players are up for ground mecha, it's easier by far to do an entire campaign for a setting where ground mecha are the dominant force (e.g. Gundam).

Seto wrote:The Zentradi Army mecha from Macross aren't really "ground mecha", as they're designed for operation in space and the vast majority of their actual operation is in space. They're more like "ground-capable space mecha" rather than vice versa. The Bioroid from Southern Cross had the biover for flight.

The Bioroid's flight capability though comes from an external system (hoversled), so it really is a ground mecha since it is dependent on an external system for flight.

The VHT, while a hovercraft is hardly optimized for space flight (or high altitude) operations given it had to be modified with disposable systems for that.

The Zentreadi mecha types in question are limited by the operating environment in terms of flight capacity unlike their two power armors (both of which can fly in and out of atmosphere). We can view them either as "ground-capable space mecha" or "space-capable ground mecha". Either way they have a ground capability that really is not emulated by the VFs (which can still fly regardless of environment) or other mecha in RT canon (the RPG canon does expand the list a bit AFAIK, but generally it is either it flies or it doesn't).

Seto wrote:Because of its emphasis on space combat, Macross is a very difficult setting to work ground mecha combat into without having to really bend over backwards to accommodate the ground mecha. If your players are up for ground mecha, it's easier by far to do an entire campaign for a setting where ground mecha are the dominant force (e.g. Gundam).

I agree it can be a challenge to mix ground/flight assets in space combat. I don't think you necessarily have to bend over backwards, though you might have to get a bit creative in what you want from a story perspective.

I'm not sure Gundam (in general) is a good example, since they are known to deploy Mobile Suits in space and on the ground in various series.

Seto wrote:That, combined with their inability to "fly" in space, limits the stories where destroids can make a meaningful contribution. For my group, which tends to move around on the Macross timeline with each new campaign, that tends to limit destroid-relevant stories to the UN Wars and Neld Fleet Crisis of 2036.

Who says they have to be Destroids? Is there something else that can capture the feel of ground based mecha the player(s) is looking for, while still being relevant (like using a Zentreadi Regult or Glaug mecha) to the players who want to play fighter pilots? Then again it may also be worth considering what they consider ground based mecha (I get the impression the OP is really saying non-Veritech Fighter as opposed to "Destroid"-type).

Why do they even have to be Standard Destroids? I'm sure there are justifiable reasons for a non-standard Destroid with flight capacity that can be worked in (ex: experiment of some kind or simply modified to make up a short fall in available number of VFs, or some external option, etc).

How is the unit even structured? What if instead of an operationally deployed unit, they are test pilots evaluating new concepts (either tactically, strategically, or even hardware)? Or a unit that can switch mecha operational roles (ie, one day we pilot VFs, next day were destroid pilots, or even a mix) that are determined by mission they are deployed on for a given day (making them a very elite and flexible unit). Etc.

ShadowLogan wrote:The Zentreadi mecha types in question are limited by the operating environment in terms of flight capacity unlike their two power armors (both of which can fly in and out of atmosphere).

Only in the Robotech RPG... they don't have that limitation in Macross, though it's noted that they aren't very agile when flying in atmosphere (and as such are usually supplemented by Gnerls). When I talk about "ground mecha" I mean mecha that are categorically incapable of sustained flight like Macross's destroids, Southern Cross's Spartas, or MOSPEADA's Ride Armors.

ShadowLogan wrote:I agree it can be a challenge to mix ground/flight assets in space combat. I don't think you necessarily have to bend over backwards, though you might have to get a bit creative in what you want from a story perspective.

Usually, when I'm looking to do a story involving ground mecha in numbers, I try to stick to land warfare simply because that way I don't tend end up in a situation that's inherently unfair to the ground mecha pilot. Other than defensive operations or the occasional ramming/boarding operation, there's not a hell of a lot for a ground mecha to do in space warfare. (I have to be cautious in a good number of my games, because I have one or two players who are prone to Leroy Jenkins-ing their way through everything... give a man a powered battle suit and a beam rifle and suddenly his respect for niceties like walls dips to Kool-Aid Man levels.)

ShadowLogan wrote:I'm not sure Gundam (in general) is a good example, since they are known to deploy Mobile Suits in space and on the ground in various series.

My inclination would be to treat them as such, as most mobile suits are generally incapable of sustained flight without some kind of bolt-on flight unit (barring a handful of exceptions like Victory Gundam or AE's Delta/Zeta family). Most need modifications to function in space at all, let alone maneuver, and their range is very limited.

ShadowLogan wrote:Who says they have to be Destroids? Is there something else that can capture the feel of ground based mecha the player(s) is looking for, while still being relevant (like using a Zentreadi Regult or Glaug mecha) to the players who want to play fighter pilots? Then again it may also be worth considering what they consider ground based mecha (I get the impression the OP is really saying non-Veritech Fighter as opposed to "Destroid"-type).

Well, again, I don't classify the Regult, Glaug, etc. as ground mecha because they're fully flight capable. From the OP's examples, I think they're on pretty much the same page I am WRT the definition of "Ground mecha" as "stuff that can't fly" (the examples were Silverbacks, destroids, and SCA robots).

ShadowLogan wrote:Why do they even have to be Standard Destroids? I'm sure there are justifiable reasons for a non-standard Destroid with flight capacity that can be worked in (ex: experiment of some kind or simply modified to make up a short fall in available number of VFs, or some external option, etc).

Well, there's always the GERWALKroid from Macross II... but really, almost everything in Macross flies apart from those few models of destroid, so we haven't really needed to come up with a workaround.

ShadowLogan wrote:How is the unit even structured? What if instead of an operationally deployed unit, they are test pilots evaluating new concepts (either tactically, strategically, or even hardware)? Or a unit that can switch mecha operational roles (ie, one day we pilot VFs, next day were destroid pilots, or even a mix) that are determined by mission they are deployed on for a given day (making them a very elite and flexible unit). Etc.

The last few times my group has done games in Macross's main continuity, I've taken the easy way out and stuck them in an Independent Squadron. That way they have the maximum latitude in how they're equipped and can usually justify having a smaller carrier like a Valhalla-type or Saratoga II-type to themselves. The 727th Independent Squadron VF-X Ravens did pretty much exactly the kind of switching you're thinking of, mecha-wise, so I've never seen a reason to disallow it in my games. That's been the genesis of a few "fell into the cockpit" type starts, since mecha controls are pretty heavily standardized in Macross. (In fact, Macross Δ protagonist Hayate Immelmann gave us an explicit acknowledgement and spectacular demonstration of precisely that in yesterday's episode... "borrowing" a downed VF-171 battroid to get himself and Freyja Wion clear of a battle and handling it like a pro despite his only prior experience being on a destroid work unit he piloted as a stevedore at Al Shalal's space port.)

I've never had problems running ground based campaigns in any era. The difficulty lies in mixed campaigns of ground and air assets as the speed differences are so extreme.

Jefffar wrote:I've never had problems running ground based campaigns in any era. The difficulty lies in mixed campaigns of ground and air assets as the speed differences are so extreme.

That's always a pain in the butt.

Just wanted to say welcome to the boards!

Seto wrote:Only in the Robotech RPG... they don't have that limitation in Macross, though it's noted that they aren't very agile when flying in atmosphere (and as such are usually supplemented by Gnerls). When I talk about "ground mecha" I mean mecha that are categorically incapable of sustained flight like Macross's destroids, Southern Cross's Spartas, or MOSPEADA's Ride Armors.

I don't think they fly in the atmosphere in RT, unless you count the Spies "escape capsule". As I said later, "ground mecha" is somewhat subjective since the capacity for "sustained flight" can be taken in several ways (the VHT is technically flying, and the VRs are also capable of flying, and one ASC Battloid is equipped for flight, and at least two of the UEEF Battloids can).

Seto wrote:, there's not a hell of a lot for a ground mecha to do in space warfare

I think it would depend on the scenarios being run, and what the GM is willing to do to make them more viable and how it is presented. Ground mecha lack the capability for rapid deployment and need another platform to assist them, either as a group (Re-Entry Pods, Bioroid Assault Carrier, ASC Shuttles, Horizon-Ts) or individually (Bioroid Hoversleds, RT:TUS/MZ23 Flagger Transport, Cyclone survival), so that would have to be provided.

Now in RT (and a bit more work for SDF Macross) you could do something similar for the UEDF/UEEF (UN Spacy) it shouldn't be to hard to come up with a booster system for the nt-B/ground forces to use to be more relevant:
-Could mount the booster modules form the VF-1's bolt-ons (GBP-1S or FAST) or a similar system on their own backs (likely some modification), the ASC already has this option essentially but could have variations optimized for different roles, and the UEEF could use it to enhance the capability of the Condor* or Bioroid so they are more viable in this role
-"Swapable" arm (or leg) systems (not likely to help for atmospheric flight, but space flight...), the ASC Battloid arms are swappable (apparently in the 2E RPG per the IMU text).
-Mecha-Linkup like the Alpha/Beta, for the UEDF eras this likely would have to be a custom design, but the UEEF (late eras) could use the Beta-9 (or a simplified derivative of the Beta-7) and have the nt-Bs (some/all) retrofitted with an Alpha Battloid connection system (if it isn't already present given some of the UEEF Marines nt-Bs look like they are derived from the Alpha). This would be restricted to space flight, but it would be an option (as I don't recall anyone using A-bm/B-fm se tup in the atmosphere). Early UEEF does require some work as in the UEDF eras, but we do know the UEEF is invested w/the concept itself (Alpha/Beta) unlike the UEDF organizations (though depending on how one CHOOSES to work in RT:TUS...)

*The Condor in the animation (85ep & LLA OVA) does appear to sport a back mounted system that is not present/considered in the 2E RPG which appears to be based on line-art and Invasion Comics (where the noticeable features are absent). That pack might explain how it can work as an "escort" for the Conbats since the RPG's "space flight" speeds are not really up to the task.

Seto wrote:Well, again, I don't classify the Regult, Glaug, etc. as ground mecha because they're fully flight capable. From the OP's examples, I think they're on pretty much the same page I am WRT the definition of "Ground mecha" as "stuff that can't fly" (the examples were Silverbacks, destroids, and SCA robots).

You may not classify the Regult/Glaug in a certain manner, but that does not mean that others classify it that way. HG seems to classify them as an "infantry" unit, which would be another way of saying "ground forces".

The ASC's Cyclop's Battloid has flight capabilities, then again in general they have bolt-ons. The OP does not mention 2RW specifically, pointing toward Sentinels/Third (NG) which would also include the Condor Battloid and Bioroid Interceptor (both have flight) as options.

ShadowLogan wrote:I don't think they fly in the atmosphere in RT, unless you count the Spies "escape capsule". As I said later, "ground mecha" is somewhat subjective since the capacity for "sustained flight" can be taken in several ways [...]

They do fly in atmosphere on a few occasions... but they're flying pretty much entirely on thrust rather than lift.

There are numerous ground mecha that have the ability to make jet/rocket-assisted jumps, but barring non-canon material there are no truly flight-capable ground mecha in Macross or Robotech. The closest they get is Southern Cross's Spartas, and that's a hovercraft... so it's only flying in the loosest sense of the term.

ShadowLogan wrote:I think it would depend on the scenarios being run, and what the GM is willing to do to make them more viable and how it is presented. Ground mecha lack the capability for rapid deployment and need another platform to assist them, either as a group (Re-Entry Pods, Bioroid Assault Carrier, ASC Shuttles, Horizon-Ts) or individually (Bioroid Hoversleds, RT:TUS/MZ23 Flagger Transport, Cyclone survival), so that would have to be provided.

Pretty much exactly what I said, just more verbose... the ground mecha pilot spends most of the combat sitting on his hands inside some form of transport or other instead of being able to freely maneuver. Ground mecha just work so much better, story-wise, for campaigns on the ground where they're not beholden to a transport aircraft most of the time. That's something that's easier to do with Robotech than Macross, since pretty much every conflict after 2014 in Robotech is land warfare. To really go all-in with destroids in Macross you need to go back to the UN Wars era, where destroids were something to be afraid of, not static targets for live-fire exercises or dirt-cheap infantry-support units.

ShadowLogan wrote:Now in RT (and a bit more work for SDF Macross) you could do something similar for the UEDF/UEEF (UN Spacy) it shouldn't be to hard to come up with a booster system for the nt-B/ground forces to use to be more relevant: [...]

... but that kind of edges into redundancy, as there are already numerous flight-capable platforms able to fight equally well on the ground, in the air, and in space. (This is a big part of why destroids largely vanished after the First Space War in Macross... which may have something to do with their disappearance in Robotech as well.)

ShadowLogan wrote:You may not classify the Regult/Glaug in a certain manner, but that does not mean that others classify it that way. HG seems to classify them as an "infantry" unit, which would be another way of saying "ground forces".

Not to put a razor-fine point on it, but I classify the Regult and Glaug based on their actual capabilities... and this digression that you started is about my group's practices after all. Mind you, the official Infopedia doesn't classify the Regult or Glaug as a groundbound land warfare unit any more than I do. The most accurate way to describe them would be as an "infantry equivalent", as their job is effectively the same on a two or three-dimensional battlefield ("infantry closes with the enemy, by means of fire and maneuver, in order to destroy or capture him, or to repel his assault by fire, close combat, and counterattack"), and they're the default currency of warfare. VFs and Destroids fill the same basic niche for the UN Spacy. Being described in that light isn't unique to Robotech either... it's something they nicked from Macross's official writeups.

Perhaps we could not clutter up our new visitor's thread with a pissing contest over the definition of the term ground mecha guys?

Thanks.

in regards to giving Destroid Pilots more to do in the macross era. i can see a number of possible approaches.

on board the SDF-1, Destroid pilots acted as additional gun emplacements for the ship, stationed on the outer hull of the ship. some of these seem to be fixed locations, but there are enough images with ones seemingly just walking around on the outer hull that you could do a number of encounters that way.
also, defense inside the ship. during the many attacks by the zentreadi, we see only the most general details of the course of the battles. having zentreadi mecha manage to board the ship, and have to be taken out by destroid teams in the corridors and city, would add an extra option to just hull duty.
further, the show's episodes have a number of timeskips, some of them weeks or months long. plenty of room to insert a few "offscreen" battles, which would give the GM some leeway in deciding how those battles played out. for example, doing a Daedalus attack, but not doing the "massive missile barrage" and instead having destroids board the zentraedi ship, towards whatever goal the GM wants. (capture the ship to salvage important spare parts perhaps, or to try and set up a trojan horse action to obtain intel. etc. in the RPG you can afford to diverge a bit from the canon in individual campaigns if it's fun.)

if you don;t want to be on the SDF-1, there are various places you could use the same "offscreen events" excuse to inject some story. like say, the moon (perhaps the zents left a token force near earth orbital space, and their commanders decided to raid the lunar bases.) or even on earth (say, after the SDF-1 returned to earth, a commander landed his ships on the planet to try and ambush the SDF-1, etc. )

further, after the war officially ends, you have the reconstruction period, which could see a lot of fighting against zents (both malcontent bandits, and against surviving zent fleet forces.) from 2011 to 2018ish everyone is still mostly using macross period units, so you don't even have to bring in the southern cross tech (though the southern cross does exist as an organization during that time. it's just a smaller one with less official standing, and still mostly using macross period gear)

Seto wrote:They do fly in atmosphere on a few occasions... but they're flying pretty much entirely on thrust rather than lift.

Can you recall any specific instances, because I'm drawing a blank on that aside from the Spies (Khyron uses his Glaug with the booster sled, but that's not the same thing). And I agree they would have to rely on raw thrust, like numerous other examples I can think of.

Anyway moving away from "what is or is not a ground vehicle" and focusing on the "can destroid-types be viable"...

Seto wrote:... but that kind of edges into redundancy, as there are already numerous flight-capable platforms able to fight equally well on the ground, in the air, and in space. (This is a big part of why destroids largely vanished after the First Space War in Macross... which may have something to do with their disappearance in Robotech as well.)

I'm not sure if I would call it redundancy in giving Destroids space-only mobility comparable to the VFs (or similar nt-space assets) either since the resulting platforms are generally distinct from a VF-1, it is more like adding diversity than needless redundancy. Examples assuming the Destroid-types are space mobile comparable to the VFs in terms of in-space propulsion by some means: 1 Phalanx-type (RT) would be equal to 7 VF-1-types (RT) for anti-ship duties in terms of payload, Defender-type (RT) and Tomahawk-type (RT) can use their guns much farther out than a VF-type (RT) is typically armed when it comes to guns (and light missiles) putting them in a role the VF (RT) can't really emulate. Other applicable mecha may or may not be justifiable with this capacity, though creating redundancy is not likely. And it isn't like the UEEF/UEDF by 2022 doesn't demonstrate that it can make a ~30ton booster module to push a ~17ton mecha around to give it high thrust/endurance in space...

RT, unlike OSM Macross and GCM (OSM SDC: SC not so much), does provide several examples of precedent to allow this sort of thing to happen on a broader scale.

Um a setting that doesn't involve space is doable in all 3 settings. In fact ground combat was seen in every RT setting. Manning destroids an a base in south america for instance and having events surround a group of service men and women stationed there.

Also look at Masters saga. The show itself centers around a ground unit. (YES while we do see them go into space, Dana and her VHT squad were first and foremost a ground unit and the vast majority of combat was seen on the ground)

Also look at Scott and the freedom fighters in New Gen. A lot of ground combat there. They had an alpha and used it sure. But the vast majority of their fighting was also on the ground ( though this kind of gets away from what i picture in my mind )

The Sentinels, (for those that followed the novels and comics) a lot of landing and ground operations there.

In new Gen we see the invid shock troopers and commanders with their feet on the ground as much as the scouts in flight. And in the Sentinels the Regent loved using those inorganics. :3

I appreciate seeing all the input. To those that greeted me, HELLO.

Anyway moving away from "what is or is not a ground vehicle" and focusing on the "can destroid-types be viable"...

I'm not sure if I would call it redundancy in giving Destroids space-only mobility comparable to the VFs (or similar nt-space assets) either since the resulting platforms are generally distinct from a VF-1, it is more like adding diversity than needless redundancy. Examples assuming the Destroid-types are space mobile comparable to the VFs in terms of in-space propulsion by some means: 1 Phalanx-type (RT) would be equal to 7 VF-1-types (RT) for anti-ship duties in terms of payload, Defender-type (RT) and Tomahawk-type (RT) can use their guns much farther out than a VF-type (RT) is typically armed when it comes to guns (and light missiles) putting them in a role the VF (RT) can't really emulate. Other applicable mecha may or may not be justifiable with this capacity, though creating redundancy is not likely. And it isn't like the UEEF/UEDF by 2022 doesn't demonstrate that it can make a ~30ton booster module to push a ~17ton mecha around to give it high thrust/endurance in space...

RT, unlike OSM Macross and GCM (OSM SDC: SC not so much), does provide several examples of precedent to allow this sort of thing to happen on a broader scale.[/quote]

My idea wouldn't be to replace or take away from the VF's rolls, While all the space battles are going on and the airial sorties are taking place what about the forces on the ground? My thought was that it would be fun to be them for a change. Or handling ground operations in general against the invid. Charging on the inorganics in silverbacks leading the charge with cyclones all around, or providing them support. Being the landing party.

I don't mean to pick this post and quote some things and voice my thoughts but i think we got away from my original post a little bit. I just wanted to say hello and introduce myself and see what interest was out there in RT1e and 2e games on the megaverse. ( which since playing a rifts game or two on here i dont see much of any. Outside of mech debates on the forum sadly. ) I could be mistaken though.

^_^

Zer0 Kay wrote:Welcome!! I, unfortunately am in the Palladium Void here in King County, WA.

You're in a void? Kitsap County is past an event horizon of no return.

Nautica wrote:Um a setting that doesn't involve space is doable in all 3 settings. In fact ground combat was seen in every RT setting. Manning destroids an a base in south america for instance and having events surround a group of service men and women stationed there.

I agree that ground combat is something that is doable and not really a problem, though it might require getting creative. Where you might run into problems though is when the GM's "story board" or the majority of players don't want to get into ground combat and how to make those outsiders still welcome and something to do.

Nautica wrote:My idea wouldn't be to replace or take away from the VF's rolls, While all the space battles are going on and the airial sorties are taking place what about the forces on the ground? My thought was that it would be fun to be them for a change. Or handling ground operations in general against the invid. Charging on the inorganics in silverbacks leading the charge with cyclones all around, or providing them support. Being the landing party.

I actually do get that, but if you are in the minority in a group that wants to focus more on the aerospace aspect I am trying to find away for the minority to remain relevant and get the type of character they want (though maybe not the situations they want). It also depends on how much "lee way" the GM is willing to play with in terms of what they are going to cover, some may want to just recreate the series in terms of events for the most part or actually go beyond that so they aren't hamstung by the series events.

Nautica wrote:Um a setting that doesn't involve space is doable in all 3 settings. In fact ground combat was seen in every RT setting. Manning destroids an a base in south america for instance and having events surround a group of service men and women stationed there.

Oh, it's perfectly possible... it's just that, without deviating from the Robotech to a considerable extent, it'd be boring as hell in two, maybe three, of Robotech's four main story arcs. Robotech in general isn't what I'd consider well-suited to an RPG at all, because the focus of the stories is so narrow.

For the Macross Saga, the ground forces that aren't aboard the SDF-1 sit out the entire war and then die horribly in the orbital bombardment. After the war, the surviving units are basically the mechanized police roughing up some Zentradi rioters every now and again while the VFs do all the actual patrolling and pursuit of enemies... not exactly what you'd call material for a riveting narrative. The ground forces in space are just walking point defense guns... which is also not a great way to make players feel involved, in my experience.

The Shadow Saga is even less friendly to ground forces-oriented stories, since infantry don't have a hell of a lot to actually do when the entire war is in space and infantry weapons seem to be slightly less effective against enemy forces than harsh language.

Nautica wrote:Also look at Masters saga. The show itself centers around a ground unit. (YES while we do see them go into space, Dana and her VHT squad were first and foremost a ground unit and the vast majority of combat was seen on the ground)

Well, yes... but there's not a lot of love for the Masters Saga in general, and though most of it IS set on the ground there's the slight problem of most of the land "campaign" being a single siege of a downed enemy spaceship that even the characters in the show admit is mostly spent sitting around staring at an ad hoc fortification out on some city's outskirts. Realistic, but hardly exciting for it.

Nautica wrote:Also look at Scott and the freedom fighters in New Gen. A lot of ground combat there. They had an alpha and used it sure. But the vast majority of their fighting was also on the ground ( though this kind of gets away from what i picture in my mind )

That's pretty much the one Robotech story arc where you have close to unlimited latitude without having to get well away from the actual Robotech story. The other three sagas are stories where the main characters are the Heroes Who Do Everything. The New Generation/MOSPEADA's story has a lot more narrative freedom built in, since its cast was one of many groups of random nobodies left over from the various invasions fighting their way across the world on salvaged equipment on the forelorn hope of ousting an inscruitable alien invader. That's your setting tailor made for a land warfare campaign. I've experimented with a pure MOSPEADA game using 2E a couple times, but my players are not the most heroic sort... so being given powered armor and a beam rifle when a typical civilian policeman has a black powder revolver and a shiny badge tends to end with them deciding that the easiest solution to most problems is "murder, followed by robbery". I'm not sure what annoys me more... that they derail the plot so completely, or that it works terrifyingly well. ^^;

Nautica wrote:I don't mean to pick this post and quote some things and voice my thoughts but i think we got away from my original post a little bit. I just wanted to say hello and introduce myself and see what interest was out there in RT1e and 2e games on the megaverse. ( which since playing a rifts game or two on here i dont see much of any. Outside of mech debates on the forum sadly. ) I could be mistaken though.

*nods* Best of luck finding a game. I'll be starting up a Macross game in the 2nd or 3rd week in May, though that's going to be predominantly aerial combat I think... may throw some underwater action in there to test a new RCC.

I'd say Anatole Leonard's pacification of South America (official in the RPG) in which he organizes the survivors of the continent around the nucleus of forces he brought with him from Antarctica provides an excellent combat oriented background that would work for a predominantly ground based campaign.

The wars of the late 2010s and early 2020s in which the UEG regained full global control (also official in the RPG) provide great opportunities for mixing it up whit both UEDF and ASC ground units.

Most of the New Generation era campaings I've run have been primarily ground based as large airborne mecha tended to attract a lot of attention, so the players generally stashed them except for emergencies.

UEEF Marines campaigns will require ground units to take and hold ground at some point, and the Inorganic make great adversaries for ground pounders.

So yes, all eras can be done on the ground and be done enjoyably.

actually Leonard's South American campaigns in the 2010's would be a great place for that.. you have a bigger focus on ground combat since Leonard was a ground forces commander originally, (and one of the guys in charge of the Destroid development, so he probably had more ground units than air units under his command) plus the 2011-2016ish timeframe of that campaign would offer a lot of opportunities for post-apoc elements and disaster-recovery elements ot be put in plot wise, which would put the action more ground focused, even infantry focused.

plus it has a good excuse to get the VF pilots to be ground pounder's.. the early ATAC forms up durign that time, using the first hovertanks. which appear early enough that they were probably being developed before/during the war by people under leonard's direction. since the macross era OCC's wopuld be the only ones really invovled at the time (the ASC OCC's wouldn't be till later, logically, after the ASC get a good foothold), it would be the VF pilot OCC that would be the early hovertankers, rather than the non-VF piloting battloid Ace OCC.

so if you don't want flyboys but you have players that want to do VF pilots, you can make them hovertankers in the prototype/LRIP hovertanks.

The Unicorn is also from the early 2010s, so power armours for infantry are also an option during this campaign.

Seto wrote:Oh, it's perfectly possible... it's just that, without deviating from the Robotech to a considerable extent, it'd be boring as hell in two, maybe three, of Robotech's four main story arcs. Robotech in general isn't what I'd consider well-suited to an RPG at all, because the focus of the stories is so narrow.

It does depend though on just what era the GM is choosing to cover. Macross Saga Part I (upto FoA) is an arc where it would be boring for the most part though Part II (post FoA) is another matter. But Masters, New Generation, and Sentinels all have major ground based aspects to them. Shadow Chronicles as presented in canon would also be boring, though depending on how the GM extrapolates campaigns in the setting outward (due to a lack of input from HG products) it could vary. Then you have the inter-saga segments which the GM is much more able to choose what they want to focus on.

Even Part I has options when you consider they can be deployed on the hull as a second line of defence (which we know they did), or take part in Deadelus type operations, or less likely deployed to counter units that penetrate the hull (we know they could penetrate the hull even w/o the reverse Deadelus action). This doesn't allow them to work as-is with air units in an offensive role, but it can still allow a focus on ground forces and how they are used.

Seto wrote: After the war, the surviving units are basically the mechanized police roughing up some Zentradi rioters every now and again while the VFs do all the actual patrolling and pursuit of enemies... not exactly what you'd call material for a riveting narrative.

They are shown to operate as 'police' (New Macross, Monument City), but also 'defenders' (New Detroit) and are called up on occassion in offensive role ("Broken Heart"'s MAC).

That though is in North America. Audio (background) in Ep35 (IIRC the number) does mention the "Army of the Southern Cross" (or was it Armies?), so matters in other parts of the world (like South America) may not be the same as NA sine we don't know what the ASC would be using at this time.

Seto wrote:Well, yes... but there's not a lot of love for the Masters Saga in general, and though most of it IS set on the ground there's the slight problem of most of the land "campaign" being a single siege of a downed enemy spaceship that even the characters in the show admit is mostly spent sitting around staring at an ad hoc fortification out on some city's outskirts. Realistic, but hardly exciting for it.

This is hardly what I would consider an accurate general description of TRM. In actuality out of 24 episodes something like 13 episodes contain space battles, 7 air battles, and 9 on the ground (less than 1/2 actually deal with laying siege to the downed ship), and IINM 4 with no battles at all. To be clear an episode can be counted more than once here, and I consider the location of the RM Mothership to determine if action regarding it was Space/Air/ground regardless of the nature of the troops attacking it (like the 15th in/out-side).

The Masters aren't totally focused on Monument City or the Mounds when they attack surface locations given various references (Newton and Manville both got nuked, sectors in "False Start" and "Danger Zone", etc), so you could still have Ground Based Defenders to protect against attack (VHTs, nt-Bs, infantry in several episodes) and wasteland patrols ("Half Moon"). You can even "parachute drop" them on Cityships ala the 15th in DZ & MG, or act as mobile defenders (ala "Volunteers", just like in TMS) on ship/shuttle hulls, for a change of pace.

Jefffar wrote:I'd say Anatole Leonard's pacification of South America (official in the RPG) in which he organizes the survivors of the continent around the nucleus of forces he brought with him from Antarctica provides an excellent combat oriented background that would work for a predominantly ground based campaign.

Granted, that IS in the RPG... but it's a premise without any real substance to it. You can't really build a campaign around maybe 2 sentences worth of backstory material. Who was he fighting? Either he did an absolutely terrible job or he wasn't fighting Zentradi, since the show establishes South America as not just a hotbed of Zentradi dissent in the years after his supposed march but also an actual headquarters of their organized resistance. So if he wasn't pacifying Zentradi rebels with ugly tracksuits and small arms, he must've been pacifying the surviving locals... a really challenging fight, that, when most nations down there are using surplus Cold War-era equipment and Leonard's forces were using the latest robotech weaponry.

Jefffar wrote:The wars of the late 2010s and early 2020s in which the UEG regained full global control (also official in the RPG) provide great opportunities for mixing it up whit both UEDF and ASC ground units.

Again... who were they fighting? The token "evil Communists" don't exist anymore, and takes your choice back to Zentradi in track suits or civilians and/or leftover military forces from third world countries. Neither is a particularly credible prospect for a force that has access to giant robots.

It's with good reason that these conflicts aren't canon... they sound interesting when they're referred to only in vague terms, but the ideas quickly become absurd if you put them in the context of the setting.

Jefffar wrote:Most of the New Generation era campaings I've run have been primarily ground based as large airborne mecha tended to attract a lot of attention, so the players generally stashed them except for emergencies.

Pretty much how I handled MOSPEADA... for each combat encounter involving the Legioss or TLEAD, they had 1D6xD20 melees (with various penalties depending how close they were to an area of high scrutiny like a city or hive) to resolve combat before the use of such high-powered HBT power systems drew the attention of a larger force of Inbit. As such, they tended to avoid using the fighters, and when they did they almost never lasted more than 2 or 3 fights.

ShadowLogan wrote:Then you have the inter-saga segments which the GM is much more able to choose what they want to focus on.

I've already touched on the previous stuff... and I've already poked a number of holes in the "between Macross and Masters" part, but there's not really anything of substance between the Masters Saga and New Generation either. Just more of the same "survival on an occupied planet" schtick that the New Generation is already about.

I have been a player and GM of the Robotech RPG for more than 25 years and across both editions.

In that time I have only once participated in a campaign that significantly paralleled or overlapped the story arc shown on screen.

Instead, for countless hours over decades of game play I have played in the spaces left undefined by the show. I've played covert ops in the jungles of three continents, run raids across the desert, infiltrated mountain fortresses, fought battles in the dark depths of the ocean and waged wars across the blackness of space. I've run campaigns of political intrigue and espionage in city-states aligned to the UEG and opposed to it. I've had campaigns that spanned complete decades of the world's history (and years of real world play). I have created literally hundreds (if not thousands) of pages of campaign material. I've played games in which not a single character could pilot a mecha and games in which almost the entire campaign occurred with characters strapped into their 40 foot death machines.

Never, ever once have I felt in any way hindered by a lack of detail in the spaces in between the shows. If anything, I've felt freer and more able to express my self creatively as I try to answer for myself and my players "What is the world of Robotech really like?"

So no, I most profoundly disagree with the assessment that there is no room in the Robotech universe for play other than a few strictly defined eras or play styles. Those with the imagination, creativity and ambition to do so can build greater adventures than anything seen on the screen.

I have to agree with Jeffar, the Inter-periods are certainly ripe for the GM to handle and take liberties with. We know there are beings known as "space pirates" that the ASC knows about in 2029, but aren't mentioned in 2014, Khyron likely did not take all the rogue Zentreadi with him, nor is it likely that there wouldn't be any intrigue campaigns to construct in developing the transitional political landscape (military dictatorship to fudal landscape transition) or "low key" events the Pioneer Mission might encounter (again Space Pirates, these "other" conflicts mentioned in AotSC when humanity started colonization, etc) before Sentinels/Tirol/Regent. We also have "Test Piloting" new mecha that are developed in the period (AGAC, Logan, Alpha, Beta, VHT, nt-Battloids, Destroids, Cyclones, etc) that could be used.

And the GM can ultimately direct things to keep things kosher with what ever timeline they want to use.

Jefffar wrote:I have been a player and GM of the Robotech RPG for more than 25 years and across both editions.

In that time I have only once participated in a campaign that significantly paralleled or overlapped the story arc shown on screen.

Instead, for countless hours over decades of game play I have played in the spaces left undefined by the show. I've played covert ops in the jungles of three continents, run raids across the desert, infiltrated mountain fortresses, fought battles in the dark depths of the ocean and waged wars across the blackness of space. I've run campaigns of political intrigue and espionage in city-states aligned to the UEG and opposed to it. I've had campaigns that spanned complete decades of the world's history (and years of real world play). I have created literally hundreds (if not thousands) of pages of campaign material. I've played games in which not a single character could pilot a mecha and games in which almost the entire campaign occurred with characters strapped into their 40 foot death machines.

Never, ever once have I felt in any way hindered by a lack of detail in the spaces in between the shows. If anything, I've felt freer and more able to express my self creatively as I try to answer for myself and my players "What is the world of Robotech really like?"

So no, I most profoundly disagree with the assessment that there is no room in the Robotech universe for play other than a few strictly defined eras or play styles. Those with the imagination, creativity and ambition to do so can build greater adventures than anything seen on the screen.

I so agree with you! In the end, its your game to do as you want. So go wild!