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Are there any rules besides the ones in The Rifter about improving/upgrading ground vehicles other than robot/power armor? If so then where? I thought they were in Rifts Russia or Rifts Australia but I've been looking over those books and can't find 'em.

In Rifts...I don't think so. The brain google is kicking out Triax Two but can't remember in exact'itud if there are.

Other then rifts HU2 MB, AU equipment section (armor, exo, & PA), the Road Hogs book (ATB1), and posssibly the Hardware Unlimited book when it comes out.

I might have to pick up Road Hogs than. I need vehicles modifications specifically. Souped up engines, additional armor etc etc. Could have sworn some Rifts book had it. Must have been one of the earlier books now out of print and "revised"

Triax 2 has some basic vehicles starting at pg. 76. There are vehicles like we have now (pickups, sportscars), hover vehicles, and MDC vehicles, to give a sense of progression and cost. These can then be used with the rules in the robot section in Sourcebook One. Or ignore Triax 2, and look up specs on Wikipedia, or whatever, and then go to SB1. Just ignore the section on AI.

Focus on Vehicular Body Styles, Power Sources, Engines and Propulsion Systems. Add any Audio, Optics and Sensors, and Weapons. All this should give you cost that should be balanced with vehicles on Rifts Earth. It's potentially a very useful part of Rifts cannon that's sort of hidden because it's ostensibly all about AI Robots, but it's really not.

The TW power source breaks the rules, I think, but also explains how Arzno power armor was designed. Indeed, I think this is pretty much the section anyone uses to design any kind of vehicle in Rifts, and puts a price on it. At least doing so would create some balance/consistency.

Vehicles are hard to keep. Why would you spend more money than you have to on them?

Vehicle upgrades a spread throgh books.
Some can be found in Rifts Mercenaries under golden age armaments if I remember right..
Also look at the skills section of RUE vehcile armorer has some mods listed. Common TW enhancements can be found in Rifts RPG (old main book) and book of magic.

I could probably help more if I knew what types of mods you are looking for.

flatline wrote:Vehicles are hard to keep. Why would you spend more money than you have to on them?

Depends on the charter and game I have some charters hold on to vehicles for quite some time. Others go through them like crazy.

Sourcebook 1's robot construction rules are flexible enough to use for custom vehicles and would be easy to adapt for upgrading an existing one. Have you discussed your ideas regarding the vehicle with your GM? If you hope to avoid having it shot up on a regular basis, it would be good to establish that in advance.

Mercenaries has some customizing options for vehicles in GAW section.

If the Diabolists in Kingsdale were to make giant pieces of parchment made indestructible from silver runes, how would this improve vehicles?

They would still need rigidity to prevent damage from kinetic attacks from going through but it seems like a good defense against energy attacks.

Axelmania wrote:If the Diabolists in Kingsdale were to make giant pieces of parchment made indestructible from silver runes, how would this improve vehicles?

They would still need rigidity to prevent damage from kinetic attacks from going through but it seems like a good defense against energy attacks.

You're assuming magic cares one iota about physics. It does not.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Axelmania wrote:If the Diabolists in Kingsdale were to make giant pieces of parchment made indestructible from silver runes, how would this improve vehicles?

They would still need rigidity to prevent damage from kinetic attacks from going through but it seems like a good defense against energy attacks.

You're assuming magic cares one iota about physics. It does not.

Short answer?
It wouldn't help much at all.
First you would have problems getting 'giant pieces of parchment'
Then there is the fact that simply because the parchment itself is indestructible doesn't mean that it provides perfect protection (or any protection really) for what is behind it (energy transfer can still occur, it just wont hurt the parchment)
Then you have issues with attachment etc

eliakon wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Axelmania wrote:If the Diabolists in Kingsdale were to make giant pieces of parchment made indestructible from silver runes, how would this improve vehicles?

They would still need rigidity to prevent damage from kinetic attacks from going through but it seems like a good defense against energy attacks.

You're assuming magic cares one iota about physics. It does not.

Short answer?
It wouldn't help much at all.
First you would have problems getting 'giant pieces of parchment'
Then there is the fact that simply because the parchment itself is indestructible doesn't mean that it provides perfect protection (or any protection really) for what is behind it (energy transfer can still occur, it just wont hurt the parchment)
Then you have issues with attachment etc

*Looks at what you are quoting then what you said.*

If magic does not care about physics your whole post would be countered by what you are quoting.

Parchment is made from the skin of animals so you just need a really big animal skin to get the parchment.

Blue_Lion wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Axelmania wrote:If the Diabolists in Kingsdale were to make giant pieces of parchment made indestructible from silver runes, how would this improve vehicles?

They would still need rigidity to prevent damage from kinetic attacks from going through but it seems like a good defense against energy attacks.

You're assuming magic cares one iota about physics. It does not.

Short answer?
It wouldn't help much at all.
First you would have problems getting 'giant pieces of parchment'
Then there is the fact that simply because the parchment itself is indestructible doesn't mean that it provides perfect protection (or any protection really) for what is behind it (energy transfer can still occur, it just wont hurt the parchment)
Then you have issues with attachment etc

*Looks at what you are quoting then what you said.*

If magic does not care about physics your whole post would be countered by what you are quoting.

Parchment is made from the skin of animals so you just need a really big animal skin to get the parchment.

It depends actually.
Some definitions of Parchment have specific animals (originally only sheepskin and goatskin were 'parchment') so it may or may not work with just any animal. GM personal call there until something official is printed.

Doesn't the Operator OCC have some upgrades they can do to vehicles as well?

eliakon wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Axelmania wrote:If the Diabolists in Kingsdale were to make giant pieces of parchment made indestructible from silver runes, how would this improve vehicles?

They would still need rigidity to prevent damage from kinetic attacks from going through but it seems like a good defense against energy attacks.

You're assuming magic cares one iota about physics. It does not.

Short answer?
It wouldn't help much at all.
First you would have problems getting 'giant pieces of parchment'
Then there is the fact that simply because the parchment itself is indestructible doesn't mean that it provides perfect protection (or any protection really) for what is behind it (energy transfer can still occur, it just wont hurt the parchment)
Then you have issues with attachment etc

two words for ya brother...magic stapler. ^__^

eliakon wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Axelmania wrote:If the Diabolists in Kingsdale were to make giant pieces of parchment made indestructible from silver runes, how would this improve vehicles?

They would still need rigidity to prevent damage from kinetic attacks from going through but it seems like a good defense against energy attacks.

You're assuming magic cares one iota about physics. It does not.

Short answer?
It wouldn't help much at all.
First you would have problems getting 'giant pieces of parchment'
Then there is the fact that simply because the parchment itself is indestructible doesn't mean that it provides perfect protection (or any protection really) for what is behind it (energy transfer can still occur, it just wont hurt the parchment)
Then you have issues with attachment etc

*Looks at what you are quoting then what you said.*

If magic does not care about physics your whole post would be countered by what you are quoting.

Parchment is made from the skin of animals so you just need a really big animal skin to get the parchment.

It depends actually.
Some definitions of Parchment have specific animals (originally only sheepskin and goatskin were 'parchment') so it may or may not work with just any animal. GM personal call there until something official is printed.

See the key word "Some" before definitions that you are saying not all definition say that.
My quick search
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/de ... /parchment
No mention of any specific animal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchment
Does not list being made from sheep or goat as a requirement but says the most common animals used include calf, sheep and goat. This sight makes it seam it is the process not the animal.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parchment
Has multiple meanings but does seam to reflect your statement.

http://www.archives.gov/preservation/fo ... ellum.html
Government sight list it as animal skin, and says most common are calf, goat sheep.

So as we now know that officially classified by the government as being made from more than just goat and sheep, and it is not a universal requirement in being classified as such. (Truth be told the top few sights that poped up did not support your statement and had to search for one that did.)

So back on non-parchment-y topic.

My group's Operator has questions about this as well. We have a tractor trailer from Rifts Mercenaries (I think the SDC to MDC conversion one by Wellington or whatever) that we will be upgrading repeatedly to haul more cargo, be harder to blow up, etc. The GM is fairly lax, so we will be able to do counts-as modifications like UAR1 heads and senso towers to grant radar, but he prefers counts-as to custom homemade modifications. Official books include:

- Rifts Mercs
- Trix 2
- RUE (Operator OCC and Vehicle Armorer Skill)

... And what else?

Richardson wrote:So back on non-parchment-y topic.

My group's Operator has questions about this as well. We have a tractor trailer from Rifts Mercenaries (I think the SDC to MDC conversion one by Wellington or whatever) that we will be upgrading repeatedly to haul more cargo, be harder to blow up, etc. The GM is fairly lax, so we will be able to do counts-as modifications like UAR1 heads and senso towers to grant radar, but he prefers counts-as to custom homemade modifications. Official books include:

- Rifts Mercs
- Trix 2
- RUE (Operator OCC and Vehicle Armorer Skill)

... And what else?

Source Book 1 original (likely revised to) might help, not only from the Robot Construction Rules, but also earlier in the book on dealing with repairs

Heroes Unlimited/Ninja's & Superspies and several other SDC titles (Road Hogs, TMNT, etc) also have rules for SDC vehicles, which can be easily adapted to Rifts. You can generally make do with one of these books, as the section is usually pretty much a copy & paste job.

Robotech New Generation Source Book has a section on Improvised Mecha Units, though they are more generic guidelines. I would not recommend the book just for this though.

There's that Naruni shield in Mercenaries you could install, as well as the Naruni camouflage cloth. They are the only technologies I know of that have yet to be mentioned.

Also, there's technowizardry.

Then there's the less than legitimate options, that are still technically legitimate.

This is stuff like installing the sensor-spoofers that you would normally put into Juicer armour into a light-MDC vehicle (50 MDC or less apparently qualifies).

Glitterboy-hide armour is exceptionally expensive (find and kill wild Glitterboys and use their skin to wrap your vehicle).

You could install non-standard parts, like the Black-Boxes from a Wild Weasel SAMAS (I think that's the one), or attach one of those Jaeger PA shoulder weapons if your vehicle is exceptionally broad (my favorite is the flak-cannon).

Blue_Lion wrote:

flatline wrote:Vehicles are hard to keep. Why would you spend more money than you have to on them?

Depends on the charter and game I have some charters hold on to vehicles for quite some time. Others go through them like crazy.

Also on how much weaponry they have. Use them in combat and they get used up in combat. Non combat vehicles tend to last longer in that they are not seen as a threat and a potential profit source if the bad guys beat your party so they are less likely to want to blow up the goodies they are hunting for.

But yes it usually does not pay to go to crazy doing upgrades on vehicles although throwing on some MDC plate thats cheap and easy to repair/replace is not a bad idea.

Richardson wrote:So back on non-parchment-y topic.

My group's Operator has questions about this as well. We have a tractor trailer from Rifts Mercenaries (I think the SDC to MDC conversion one by Wellington or whatever) that we will be upgrading repeatedly to haul more cargo, be harder to blow up, etc. The GM is fairly lax, so we will be able to do counts-as modifications like UAR1 heads and senso towers to grant radar, but he prefers counts-as to custom homemade modifications. Official books include:

- Rifts Mercs
- Trix 2
- RUE (Operator OCC and Vehicle Armorer Skill)

... And what else?

You don't need a UAR-1 Head and Sensor tower to grant radar as you can have a normal radar system installed for 3000 credits (Golden Age Weaponsmiths section of Mercenaries, page 99).

dragonfett wrote:You don't need a UAR-1 Head and Sensor tower to grant radar as you can have a normal radar system installed for 3000 credits (Golden Age Weaponsmiths section of Mercenaries, page 99).

True. But if we are lucky enough to slag a UAR anyway and we are salvaging it for parts it's one of the bits our GM is most likely to declare salvageable. It's actually a low powered game at present so defeating even 5 deadboys would be a mighty feat for us!

Even at high power 5 deadboys can be problematic if they played well, but I digress.

So far all official sources I can think of, and more, have been listed.

My question is are there any time tables for installing mods/armor to equipment?

Alrik Vas wrote:My question is are there any time tables for installing mods/armor to equipment?

I think so, I know I've seen them in Robotech 1E under the Bi-Maintenance Engineer OCC and Heroes Unlimited (2E)'s Hardware Category for Mechanical and Electrical types. Not sure about specific Rifts sources though, as the two places I thought to look (SB1 and Bionics SB) in their "repair" sections did not have anything noticeable about time.

Dog_O_War wrote:There's that Naruni shield in Mercenaries you could install, as well as the Naruni camouflage cloth. They are the only technologies I know of that have yet to be mentioned.

Also, there's technowizardry.

Then there's the less than legitimate options, that are still technically legitimate.

This is stuff like installing the sensor-spoofers that you would normally put into Juicer armour into a light-MDC vehicle (50 MDC or less apparently qualifies).

Glitterboy-hide armour is exceptionally expensive (find and kill wild Glitterboys and use their skin to wrap your vehicle).

You could install non-standard parts, like the Black-Boxes from a Wild Weasel SAMAS (I think that's the one), or attach one of those Jaeger PA shoulder weapons if your vehicle is exceptionally broad (my favorite is the flak-cannon).

Those Naruni Camouflage sheets aren't actually cloth. I don't think you can just cover a vehicle like that. In order for them to be effective, they have to cover even the windows, which would make driving a bit problematic.

dragonfett wrote:

Dog_O_War wrote:There's that Naruni shield in Mercenaries you could install, as well as the Naruni camouflage cloth. They are the only technologies I know of that have yet to be mentioned.

Also, there's technowizardry.

Then there's the less than legitimate options, that are still technically legitimate.

This is stuff like installing the sensor-spoofers that you would normally put into Juicer armour into a light-MDC vehicle (50 MDC or less apparently qualifies).

Glitterboy-hide armour is exceptionally expensive (find and kill wild Glitterboys and use their skin to wrap your vehicle).

You could install non-standard parts, like the Black-Boxes from a Wild Weasel SAMAS (I think that's the one), or attach one of those Jaeger PA shoulder weapons if your vehicle is exceptionally broad (my favorite is the flak-cannon).

Those Naruni Camouflage sheets aren't actually cloth. I don't think you can just cover a vehicle like that. In order for them to be effective, they have to cover even the windows, which would make driving a bit problematic.

They're a flexible MDC fabric; even if you can't cover a viewport with it, it's still added protection and still helps hide the bulk of a vehicle. Besides, for the most part you don't actually want to have it on all the time, because if your vehicle gets shot, that ruins the effect. It's more that you can hide a stationary vehicle, which would be a vehicular upgrade.

Dog_O_War wrote:

dragonfett wrote:

Dog_O_War wrote:There's that Naruni shield in Mercenaries you could install, as well as the Naruni camouflage cloth. They are the only technologies I know of that have yet to be mentioned.

Also, there's technowizardry.

Then there's the less than legitimate options, that are still technically legitimate.

This is stuff like installing the sensor-spoofers that you would normally put into Juicer armour into a light-MDC vehicle (50 MDC or less apparently qualifies).

Glitterboy-hide armour is exceptionally expensive (find and kill wild Glitterboys and use their skin to wrap your vehicle).

You could install non-standard parts, like the Black-Boxes from a Wild Weasel SAMAS (I think that's the one), or attach one of those Jaeger PA shoulder weapons if your vehicle is exceptionally broad (my favorite is the flak-cannon).

Those Naruni Camouflage sheets aren't actually cloth. I don't think you can just cover a vehicle like that. In order for them to be effective, they have to cover even the windows, which would make driving a bit problematic.

They're a flexible MDC fabric; even if you can't cover a viewport with it, it's still added protection and still helps hide the bulk of a vehicle. Besides, for the most part you don't actually want to have it on all the time, because if your vehicle gets shot, that ruins the effect. It's more that you can hide a stationary vehicle, which would be a vehicular upgrade.

I don't consider the Naruni Camouflage sheets as an upgrade to a vehicle simply because you take some of them to throw over said vehicle like a tarp, so more like equipment. An actual upgrade to the vehicle is physically a part of the vehicle. But it is semantics.

Either way, the ability to hide a vehicle with them is extremely useful.

As far as how long it takes to make repairs or upgrades or build a whole vehicle, there are no official rules that I am aware of. I get the sense that PC's in Rifts weren't supposed to upgrade their own gear and vehicles, so we may need to use the rules from other sources.

dragonfett wrote:I don't consider the Naruni Camouflage sheets as an upgrade to a vehicle simply because you take some of them to throw over said vehicle like a tarp, so more like equipment. An actual upgrade to the vehicle is physically a part of the vehicle. But it is semantics.

I'm saying that you can make it a permanent fixture, it's just that you generally do not want to (because of the cost).

However, an example of where you would is with something like a hang-glider, where you're looking to remain invisible if viewed from the air, or even a submarine or other underwater craft to avoid predators. Most people just think about ground vehicles.

dragonfett wrote:Either way, the ability to hide a vehicle with them is extremely useful.

Yes. Remembering where you hid that vehicle is also just as useful

dragonfett wrote:As far as how long it takes to make repairs or upgrades or build a whole vehicle, there are no official rules that I am aware of. I get the sense that PC's in Rifts weren't supposed to upgrade their own gear and vehicles, so we may need to use the rules from other sources.

But the operator is a major part of the game, designed specifically for PCs in-mind.

I just see it more as some abstract aspect they should have elaborated on, but either did not or could not. With google however, we can at least get a comparable approximation.

That would be a useful article for a Rifter. If not a entire issue. Collect the vehicle construction rules spread all over the place and group them in one spot. I don't think it will happy thpugh.

Dog_O_War wrote:

dragonfett wrote:I don't consider the Naruni Camouflage sheets as an upgrade to a vehicle simply because you take some of them to throw over said vehicle like a tarp, so more like equipment. An actual upgrade to the vehicle is physically a part of the vehicle. But it is semantics.

I'm saying that you can make it a permanent fixture, it's just that you generally do not want to (because of the cost).

However, an example of where you would is with something like a hang-glider, where you're looking to remain invisible if viewed from the air, or even a submarine or other underwater craft to avoid predators. Most people just think about ground vehicles.

dragonfett wrote:Either way, the ability to hide a vehicle with them is extremely useful.

Yes. Remembering where you hid that vehicle is also just as useful

dragonfett wrote:As far as how long it takes to make repairs or upgrades or build a whole vehicle, there are no official rules that I am aware of. I get the sense that PC's in Rifts weren't supposed to upgrade their own gear and vehicles, so we may need to use the rules from other sources.

But the operator is a major part of the game, designed specifically for PCs in-mind.

I just see it more as some abstract aspect they should have elaborated on, but either did not or could not. With google however, we can at least get a comparable approximation.

I feel that in the beginning, the Operator was meant to play the part of high tech healer in the game by having the ability to repair vehicles and weapons. When they officially expanded what the Operator could do, they forgot to mention how long it took to make the upgrades (or even the repairs to be honest).

dragonfelt wrote:Those Naruni Camouflage sheets aren't actually cloth. I don't think you can just cover a vehicle like that. In order for them to be effective, they have to cover even the windows, which would make driving a bit problematic.

Per Mercenaries (pg125 at the end of the section on them) description "The sheet also has micro-sensors that allow vehicles or armor helmets to see through them, provided they are properly connected", so you can apparently cover a view port.

You are correct that the Sheets aren't actually fabric, they are made of fibre-optics.

Dog_O_War wrote:Yes. Remembering where you hid that vehicle is also just as useful

"Everyone remember where we parked"-Admiral Kirk (ST:IV)

Sureshot wrote:That would be a useful article for a Rifter. If not a entire issue. Collect the vehicle construction rules spread all over the place and group them in one spot. I don't think it will happy thpugh.

The vehicle creation rules listed in 2 issues of rifter are limited and not done well in my opinion. Really cutting up a cammo net to give a vehicle radar stealth instead of shape and anti radar paint. I am still working on transferring my hard copy of creation rules I use to digital and it is massive the table of contents alone is two pages and it does not go into details. (another place to look for ideas is HU or ninjas and super spies.) It is a massive project that I do not intend to try to get published it is to large for Rifter submission. But it is what I use in my games. Basically for vehicles I drew from the creation choice in HU/Ninja and superspies and expanded and added stuff for Rifts.