Armor questions.

[say652]

Layering.

A super spy stealth power armor.
Worn under a Heavy Deadboy Exoskeleton.

Would the exoskeleton bonuses aid the power armor?

[Pepsi Jedi]

Genreally one can't wear armor under armor, or power armor under power armor, or over, etc.

[flatline]

I wouldn't allow it.

As a kid, did you ever layer a jacket with a snowsuit? If so, you might remember how hard it became to bend your arms. Now imagine that the jacket and snowsuit were more rigid and, at the same time, more form fitting.

You wouldn't be able to move.

[say652]

Spending 3 times the base cost to link the suits together.

Keep the Standard Heavy Deadboy penalties.
Combine weight and height.

List Mdc separately as its layered.

I want this for my Cyborg.
He'd be 7'6" tall 470lbs armored.
-30% Prowl.
-10% swim,acrobatics, Gymnastics.
No Climb Penalty.

Mdc by location.
220Mdc Stalker Frame.
180Mdc Stealth PA.
200Mdc Heavy Exoskeleton.

Still less Mdc than a Rmb heavy armored cyborg.
280Mdc Frame.
420Mdc Heavy Armor.


The finished Product looks Similar to a Terror Trooper though smaller in size and weight.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Not sure that common armors are sized for cyborgs anyway but as a GM i defiantely wouldn't allow that.

[say652]

The characters goal is.

To train a light machine CS Commando.
Pilot Super Spy. Stealth missions etc.
The Heavy Combat Exoskeleton is worn over the Super Spy armor for NonStealth Missions.

Armed with Paladin Steel Pulverizers.

[Bill]

Assuming you could find an armorer to modify all of it, I'd allow it. The wearer would halve their attacks per melee round, lose all combat bonuses, and prowl and all dexterity intensive skills would be impossible though.

[say652]

But I go From Stealth unit to Wielding a Heavy Cannon and able to take a few Missile volleys.

Without restoring to Forcefields layering is one way I strengthen Mdc tech vs Magic etc.

[Bill]

The character wants to put a robotic arm in another robotic arm in a third robotic arm. Feedback is going to get screwy, the joints will bind unpredictably, and it'll be like walking around in an inflatable sumo-suit.

If I might make a suggestion, stop using stock material. I think you'd get less objection if you were to define this as an original borg chassis with additional ablative plating that can be added and ejected if necessary. The VXC-550 chassis from The Rifter 52, p67 uses a similar sort of armor. Even it takes penalties and can't prowl with the heavy plates on though.

[say652]

The sleek light machine the agile no power Armor penalty stealth armor and the Heavy Deadboy Exoskeleton.

Robot ps 32.
Robot run speed 60mph.
Concealed stealth micro hoverjet Fly60md mph.

-30% prowl.
-10% acrobatics, gymnastic,swim.
No Climb Penalty.

[Bill]

Why does it need the deadboy exo? Can't the cyberdocs tune up the PS and bolt on more armor?

[say652]

To add or take off Mdc as Appropriate for the mission.

With the hard high-tech Ammo I can adjust artillery, snipers and cover sprays with the same weapon using different ammunition.

Elite Tech strike teams.
CS sponsored Not so secretly.

[flatline]

Without restoring to Forcefields layering is one way I strengthen Mdc tech vs Magic etc.

The strength of tech is, and always will be, in numbers.

If one borg can't stop those evil mages, send 10. Or 1000.

[Bill]

The armor can be adjusted between missions without resorting to a suit. The only case where that wouldn't be true would be extended deployments behind enemy lines. Even then you'd have to arrange storage, which implies a safe position where you could house a cyberdoc to perform the necessary maintenance and modifications. The weaponry is just a matter of selecting an appropriate man-portable option for the mission objective; an arsenal would be another good reason to maintain a forward position too.

I'm still not seeing a good reason to put a cyborg in a suit of power armor.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I'm with the others. Trying it would result in an 'Inflated sumo suit' sort of situation. The suits you're talking about putting on are there to agument human strengthn not robotic. It wouldn't work right and yeah it'd be really bad for mobility and what not, as cyborgs and exo's generally aren't as agile and supple as humans are, so adding metal joints atop metal joints atop metal joints is going to really conflict and jam up and such.

Moving in armor is a hassle for something it's designed for. Putting on armor on top of other armor, on top of an armored cyborg.. yikes.

Instead of trying for max max max mdc in this layering sort of way (Which I maintain the suits arn't built for anyway) Maybe just play the character type as intended and realize that walking through missile volley's unscathed isn't really an aspect of the game to try and acheive?

[Pepsi Jedi]

I keep envisioning Chris Farley going 'Big guy in a little coat!" and ripping out of it, then seeing Robocop trying to put on a jacket and the same thing happening.

[Alrik Vas]

Heavy exo deadboy armor is worn by borgs. How does this power armor fit under that?

[Bill]

Heavy exo deadboy armor is worn by borgs.

The exo version is for ordinary humans. The standard CA-6C, WB11, p102 is unaugmented and issued to cyborgs. Even then, the maximum size listed is 7'6"; so it's for rather small cyborgs at best. That's big enough for the P.S. 26 Heavy CS Cyborg, but not the big nasties from RUE, Russia, or the bigger Triax chassis. Still, I'd allow the standard CA-6C to be modified to fit bigger borgs without penalty.

[say652]

I use the Exoskeleton slightly increase the Super Spy Armors Attributes, Greatly increases its Durability, and best of all Gives the ability to hold Heavy Weapons.

I use the light machine as having Bionic strength and cannot have Robot strength.
They are typically 6 feet 350lbs.
+6 inches from super spy 6'6" tall.
The CA6-EX states clearly 6'6"-7'6" tall.

The suit also says turns strength robotic, not enhanced.
So it ups the Super Spy to a Frontline Unit, if necessary.

[Bill]

I use the Exoskeleton slightly increase the Super Spy Armors Attributes, Greatly increases its Durability, and best of all Gives the ability to hold Heavy Weapons.

I use the light machine as having Bionic strength and cannot have Robot strength.
They are typically 6 feet 350lbs.
+6 inches from super spy 6'6" tall.
The CA6-EX states clearly 6'6"-7'6" tall.

The suit also says turns strength robotic, not enhanced.
So it ups the Super Spy to a Frontline Unit, if necessary.

It's pretty clear that you're not interested in criticism or argument against your plan. And since it's your game, you can do what you like. I'm confused why you bother asking for opinions though.

[say652]

To figure out reasonable penalties and abilities for the three layers if Mdc protection I'm trying to put on a Commando.

At 7'6" tall.
470Lbs.
-30% Prowl.

Stealth is possible but highly unlikely. I am trying for a modular unit of stackable Gear to outfit the Light Machine Commando Units.

[Library Ogre]

Spending 3 times the base cost to link the suits together.

At this point, you've gone from "I am combining these two armors" to "I am building a new armor with the characteristics of these two armors."

[Bill]

To figure out reasonable penalties and abilities for the three layers if Mdc protection I'm trying to put on a Commando.

At 7'6" tall.
470Lbs.
-30% Prowl.

Stealth is possible but highly unlikely. I am trying for a modular unit of stackable Gear to outfit the Light Machine Commando Units.

Give up at least one attack and reduce strike/parry/dodge by -2. I think half attacks, no combat bonuses and no chance at prowl or other dexterity related skills is fair.

[Bill]

Spending 3 times the base cost to link the suits together.

At this point, you've gone from "I am combining these two armors" to "I am building a new armor with the characteristics of these two armors."

Kind of. What he really wants to do is set up a variable configuration where he can send out the basic borg, a borg with stealth armor, or a layered up super-armored borg. I think he'd be better off with a purpose-built borg chassis and optional armor for frontal assault. Which is how every borg detailed in the game works. I like consistency though.

[say652]

To figure out reasonable penalties and abilities for the three layers if Mdc protection I'm trying to put on a Commando.

At 7'6" tall.
470Lbs.
-30% Prowl.
-10% acrobatics,climbing, gymnastics and swim.
-1 Attack.
-2 Strike.
-2 Parry.
-2 Dodge.

Stealth is possible but highly unlikely. I am trying for a modular unit of stackable Gear to outfit the Light Machine Commando Units.

Give up at least one attack and reduce strike/parry/dodge by -2. I think half attacks, no combat bonuses and no chance at prowl or other dexterity related skills is fair.

Edited.

I know I could have accomplished the same thing by Changing to a Terror Trooper or Mauler Power Armor.

But these are unit specific. The gear is stacked on the Borg as needed.

[Blue_Lion]

I do not think an exso skeleton would help PA with str. Or that you could wear both PA and a exo.

[say652]

Yea popular opinion is just change Power Armors to Fit the task.
Don't layer them.

[Blue_Lion]

Yea popular opinion is just change Power Armors to Fit the task.
Don't layer them.

Yea they are unlikely to stack, maybe try bolting on borg stealth bolt on armor to the PA.

[say652]

Squashed in the conceptual Stage.

Use the Borgs and pilot pa for the tasks instead of add ons and layering.

Not really that hard but not all ideas are good ones.

[Blue_Lion]

Squashed in the conceptual Stage.

Use the Borgs and pilot pa for the tasks instead of add ons and layering.

Not really that hard but not all ideas are good ones.

Layering armor with built in robotics to help move things would be hard to do.

PA with rapid to change out bolt on armor on top of its base armor would help reduce turn around time to get a unit to the field in high combat zones. It would also be allot easer to do than layering armor with built in robotics and should in theory be cheaper.

(That gives me an idea I will right it out to see how it looks.

[say652]

I was thinking take the stealth pa and up it's Strength Speed and Armor. Instead of changing to a different possibly unfamiliar suit.

But it's not destined to happen.

[Blue_Lion]

I was thinking take the stealth pa and up it's Strength Speed and Armor. Instead of changing to a different possibly unfamiliar suit.

But it's not destined to happen.

Wait that is your goal just upgrade the armor. Use robot mechanics to improve the mobility system and then create a way to bolt on borg bolt on armor(or add main body armor). Note this may cost you the stealth depending on the GM.

No reason that if a operator can upgrade the speed of an engine by 30% that they could not apply some more speed and strength to a existing suit of PA with the right skills.
The borg armor is made to bolt on to full conversion borgs MD body so it should be able to be reworked might warrant a mobility penalty from some GMS.

[say652]

Eh. Over it.

Light Machine CS Commando.
Stealth Missions, Super Spy Pa.
Frontline, Terror Trooper.

I'll have to have them spend an additional skill slot on RPA Elite Terror Trooper but it avoids Future arguments for now.

[Morik]

Layering armor is the worst thing I heard today. Take into account that I had to listen to a replay of a trump speech while waiting for my oil change.

[say652]

Borg Lives Matter.

[Pepsi Jedi]

To figure out reasonable penalties and abilities for the three layers if Mdc protection I'm trying to put on a Commando.

At 7'6" tall.
470Lbs.
-30% Prowl.

Stealth is possible but highly unlikely. I am trying for a modular unit of stackable Gear to outfit the Light Machine Commando Units.

That's the thing. The consensus seems to be that "Reasonably it doesn't work like that" and wouldn't function, but you're just adding numbers so.. as previously pointed out. Do what ever you need.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Kevin has stated new CS borgs in the HoH book. That might help you out. They seem to have less time to train the two million MORE troops that they just recruited so seem to be going the "Screw it lets just skip it" and making more borgs and juicers. lol.

[say652]

I'll just use the cyborg frame and adjust the Power Armor as needed for the mission.

Though being able to customize the Borg as needed is still a goal and requires further modifying.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The only layering (for individuals) I would let my players get away with would be Clothes, Armor, Magic; or Clothes, PA; or Clothes, Armor, Bot/Vehicle.

[Blue_Lion]

The only layering (for individuals) I would let my players get away with would be Clothes, Armor, Magic; or Clothes, PA; or Clothes, Armor, Bot/Vehicle.

Well there are MDC leather dusters from new west

[drewkitty ~..~]

The only layering (for individuals) I would let my players get away with would be Clothes, Armor, Magic; or Clothes, PA; or Clothes, Armor, Bot/Vehicle.

Well there are MDC leather dusters from new west

Which would fall under clothes....In which point you are making it would be Armor, Clothes, magic.
Yes, this is Rifts so there are a plethora of "exceptions" to just about everything.

[rem1093]

So basically you want a Hulk Buster, Or BBC's Hardsuit/Motorslave combo, something I actually do. I would go with a singe set, ether the light power armor, or the Cyborg body but not both. With the cyborg body just run it like the Luftwaffe cyborg. And gut the larger suit of unneeded parts for space.

[Blue_Lion]

So basically you want a Hulk Buster, Or BBC's Hardsuit/Motorslave combo, something I actually do. I would go with a singe set, ether the light power armor, or the Cyborg body but not both. With the cyborg body just run it like the Luftwaffe cyborg. And gut the larger suit of unneeded parts for space.

Or go with a machine man from phase world in fatman glitter boy.

[kaid]

Layering.

A super spy stealth power armor.
Worn under a Heavy Deadboy Exoskeleton.

Would the exoskeleton bonuses aid the power armor?

You could potentially wear some of the NG light MDC cloth flight suites under power armor but there would be no way to wear power under other power armor even the light power armor tends to have some spikey bits that would make it problematic to fit.


Also if the character is a borg don't waste one of your bigger advantages which is to be able to put on the borg armor. That stuff generally has very high MDC per credit as its just pure ablative armor plating. Its cheap to repair and cheap to replace. If you want to be faster or sneakier do that with bionics just get rid of the need for the stealth armor. That way you can go stealthy normally in your light borgness and don some medium/heavy borg armor for when the poop has gotten real. Also there is really no point for a borg taking multiple exoskeletons as you can upgrade your own innate str to robotic anyway. If you are a borg then borg that is a huge upgrade path available there that does not require waddling around trying to work with multiple sets of armor.

[say652]

I figured the light frame ir partial frame turn the Commando Mdc, a big help.
Stealth Power Armor,adds Mdc and stealth. Birth God things.
For frontline battles, The Terror Trooper power armor fits my needs nicely.

Not quite the bolt on accessory package I was trying for but handy enough. Though more gear means more money spent in repair and storage.

[Unfortunate Son]

Layering armor is the worst thing I heard today. Take into account that I had to listen to a replay of a trump speech while waiting for my oil change.

ROFL

Why not just use a force field and a modular chassis. Does what you want, opens up lanes for further customization and doesn't bind the soldiers in it.

[Axelmania]

What is this Super Spy Stealth Power Armor?

Genreally one can't wear armor under armor, or power armor under power armor, or over, etc.

On the other hand, body armor under power armor is often acceptable, at least with the bigger PA. Not so much with the tinier types.

Wearing some bulky thing like Millenium Leaf Armor on top of body armor also makes sense. Probably good thing for GMs/players to negotiate based o how armor looks or is described.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Looking in the Bionics book, you COULD be one of the Cyber-Human Cyborg OCC... but like all the Cyborg OCCs, they cant take Pilot: Power Armor & Robots or PA/Robot Combat skills.

Someone with that cyborg type is small enough to fit in a PA, though, as they are human-sized and human-looking.

[Pepsi Jedi]

What is this Super Spy Stealth Power Armor?

Genreally one can't wear armor under armor, or power armor under power armor, or over, etc.

On the other hand, body armor under power armor is often acceptable, at least with the bigger PA. Not so much with the tinier types.

Wearing some bulky thing like Millenium Leaf Armor on top of body armor also makes sense. Probably good thing for GMs/players to negotiate based o how armor looks or is described.

I don't think that body armor under power armor is acceptable. Even piloting robot vehicles which are much bigger one doesn't wear EBA in there. They have special (Lighter weight) Flight suit type stuff.

Are you people honestly wearing MDC Uniforms under EBA armor, and then putting power armor on over top it in your games?

LOL

Go put on three coats and try and move around. Then understand armor is a LOT More rigid and harder to move in.

It's ... WOW.... REALLY????

[say652]

The light machine is mansize and able to use power armor, my original question was.

Can a 6'6" soft suit be worn under the heavy Deadboy or a hard exoskeleton.

The idea was uniform Borg soldiers in Stealth Power Armor, Use the exoskeleton to Armor up for heavy combat.

Instead of my opinion my opinion, this, this and this.
Check la libre and see what I am saying.

Just as easy to switch power armor suits, though the uniform force becomes like styled Power Armor.