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[EDIT: I had a chance to work on this class and here are the updates]
Please let me know what you think...

The Pseudo-Mystic
(I designed this O.C.C. with a variation of Chaos Earth in mind, but any magical setting could see the development of a Pseudo-Mystic.)

How does one discover that he or she possesses psychic abilities? If one discovers these abilities without other psychics around, how does he or she know the abilities are psychic? The abilities could be magical in nature, super-powers, or even divine gifts! Without a point of reference, how would one know?
The Pseudo-Mystic is one of these individuals, a Natural or Genius, but his abilities are not psychic in nature, they are magical! Like mystics, the Pseudo-Mystic intuitively develops the ability to perform magic. However, unlike other Mystics, the Pseudo-Mystic does not (and cannot!) possess psychic abilities. Instead, the Pseudo-Mystic’s psychic potential (some would say genius) is focused entirely into a supreme magical understanding and talent.
Pseudo-Mystics are almost unheard of in societies, realms, and dimensions where magic is common. In these places, the raw natural talent of these individuals is usually discovered, cultivated, and focused, instead of being able to develop on its own. However, when these rare individuals are left to develop naturally, they eventually realize the abilities of a Pseudo-Mystic.
Because magic is rare, or even unheard of, where Pseudo-Mystics originate, the individual does not know what to think of his new abilities. The individual’s environment will influence his or her interpretation of the new abilities. One that is extremely religious might view the abilities as a gift from the gods! A comic book fan might think they are super-powers! However, the most common outlook is that these abilities are some sort of psychic ability. If he or she ever learns the truth (see #3 below), his world is shaken and his powers irrevocably changed, and some would say diminished.
The belief that the Pseudo-Mystics abilities are psychic molds their development. The Pseudo-Mystic intuitively develops spells that resemble classic psychic powers! In addition, instead of casting the spells like a mage, he learns to cast them simply by concentrating (ie, sans words or gestures, see #2 below).
Initially, the spells developed by the Pseudo-Mystic are limited to invocations, but eventually he or she becomes capable of developing spells from any flavor of magic.

Special Abilities of the Pseudo-Mystic (IQ bonuses apply to all)
1) Sense Ley Line and Magic Energy: The Pseudo-Mystic sees this as another one of his "Psychic-Powers". Identical to the Ley Line Walker ability except all ranges are halved.

2) "Psychic Powers": Actually, all the Pseudo-Mystic's "Powers" are magical in nature. He does not realize that he is using magic and might not even know what magic really is. Because of this, he has developed the unique ability to cast low-level spells (levels 1-4) without using any words! This is the equivalent of the Sorcerous Proficiency Cast by Thought Alone except it is limited to lower-level spells. After 4th level this applies to spells of the Mystic’s level or lower. He can cast higher level spells, but he needs to "talk himself through it" while doing so.

Like other geniuses, some of the first “powers” to develop are magical equivalents of Total Recall and Mind Block. These are identical to the psionic powers, but require P.P.E. to trigger them instead of I.S.P.

Initial Spell Knowledge: Pick 6 spells from the following list to represent his beginning "Psychic Powers":

Armor of Ithan(10), Astral Projection(10), Befuddle(6), Blind(6), Charismatic Aura(10), Cure Minor Disorders(10), Death Trance(1), Decipher Magic(4), Electric Arc(8), Energy Bolt(5), Energy Field(10), Enhanced Memory(12)(BTS 1), Extinguish Fire(4), Fear(5), Fist of Fury(10/50), Float in Air(5), Fuel Flame(5), Ignite Fire(6), Impervious to Fire(5;self), Impervious to Poison(5), Impression(5)(BTS1), Instill Knowledge(15), Levitation(5), Ley Line Transmission(30), Life Source(2+special), Light Healing(6), Manipulate Objects(2+), Memory Bank(12), Mental Shock(30), Mind Fog(24), Mind Over Matter(22), Mystic Fulcrum(5), Paralysis: Lesser(5), Repel Animals(7), See Aura (6), See The Invisible(4), Sense Evil(2), Sense Traps(7), Spoil Concentration(15), Spoil Memory(20), Spoil the Mind with Numbing Madness(25), Telekinesis(8), Trance(10), Turn Dead(6)

Also, choose 2 Chaos Magic Spells. These should be spells easily explainable as Psychic Powers. (If the character is not being played in a Chaos Earth setting, choose 2 more spells from the list above instead.)

3) Learning the “Truth”: Sooner or later the character may or may not learn that his powers are magical. How this might happen is up to each GM and player. If this happens, the character’s abilities change as indicated below. It is important to note that the truth may become evident at any point, even at character creation (although this makes the character much less fun to play)

4) Learning New Spells: Every level beyond the first, the Pseudo-Mystic will intuitively develop new powers/spells. At second level pick 2 spells from the list above and 1 Chaos Magic spell.

At second level and above, the character’s mastery of his powers begins to grow. Instead of choosing a spell from the above list, the character can choose to take the magical equivalent of a psychic power! The Pseudo-Mystic intuitively devises a new spell that mirrors a know psionic power. At first, only minor powers are available, but at higher levels, Super-Psionic powers can be learned this way as well.

The new “spell” has the same duration, range, and effect as the psionic power. The P.P.E. cost of the new spell is the same as the psionic power. For example, if the character learned a magical equivalent of Mind Block, it would have a range of “self”, the duration would be ten minutes per level, and the cost would be 4 P.P.E. per casting.

For spell level purposes, take the I.S.P. cost of the psionic ability, divide by 5 (round up), and add 2 for super-psionic powers. The minimum spell level is 2. For variable costs powers, use the highest cost for calculations (Mind Bolt would be a tenth level spell: max 40 I.S.P. cost, plus 2 for being a super-psionic power). For powers with a cost per a certain number of units (like Telekinesis), calculate the level based on two units (Telekinesis is a second level spell, Telekinesis (Super) is a sixth level spell). The Pseudo-Mystic can only devise spells with an equivalent level of the character’s level or lower.

At any point, the character may realize that he is casting spells (see #3, above). This changes the character's outlook and hinders his ability to develop new spells. Each level AFTER the character learns the truth, he will be able to figure out TWO new spells. Spells are limited to spells of equal or lower level, but he can develop spells from any magical discipline, much like a Mystic.

After learning the truth, the Pseudo-Mystic can learn spells like other full mages. However, his natural magic genius allows him to learn spells taught by another in less time. Instead of the normal 2 days per spell level, the Pseudo-Mystic requires a mere hour per spell level to learn a spell! In addition, the Pseudo-Mystic is capable of learning spells from ANY caster, even other Mystics. The caster must be willing to describe the casting of the spell and demonstrate casting the spell so the Pseudo-Mystic can witness the casting (meaning some spells cannot be learned in this way, like ones requiring huge amounts of P.P.E. or Sorcerous Fury which requires the death of the caster…). This is a draining endeavor requiring the expenditure of 15 P.P.E. per spell level by the Pseudo-Mystic, and the Pseudo-Mystic will be physically drained requiring a full night’s rest after learning the spell.

5) Intuitive Knowledge of Mystic Symbols: The Pseudo-Mystic intuitively understands all mystic symbols and writings. The character usually attributes this knowledge to some sort of psychic ability. Mystic symbols are used in all forms of ancient and modern magic, including wards and circles. Base Skill: 10% +5% per level (+15% after the truth is learned, see #3 above) (note: this does include the ability to read Runes, but not to use Rune Magic, also, although the Pseudo-Mystic can most likely discern what the function of a circle or ward is and use an activated circle, he cannot create or active a circle or create wards without first being instructed how to do so by a practitioner of those arts (and then only after he learns the truth, see #3 above)

6) Magic Lore and Principles of Magic: The Pseudo-Mystic possesses intuitive knowledge equal to the Lore: Magic skill. As his knowledge grows, it becomes harder and harder to deny his true nature. He suffers a -10% penalty until he learns the truth. He then enjoys a 15% bonus. Also, after he learns the truth (see #3 above), he intuitively “learns” the Principles of Magic skill (see Nightbane: Through the Glass Darkly) with a +20% bonus (starts at 1st level proficiency when the mystic finally learns the truth).

7) Sorcerous Proficiencies and limitations (optional): Feel free to ignore this ability (but not the ability to cast by thought alone mentioned above) if you do not allow Sorcerous Proficiencies in your game.

As mentioned under #2, above, the Pseudo-Mystic has advanced magical talent, but also believes these talents are psychic and not magical. He naturally develops some talents that he attributes to psychic abilities in addition to the psionic-like spells mentioned above. The first manifestation of this is Cast by Thought Alone as described above. In addition, at first level the Pseudo-Mystic can pick a Sorcerous Proficiency (pulled from Through the Glass Darkly and Rifter #27).

Here are some examples with sample explanations:

“Truly Psychic” (Invisible to Magic): Gaining this proficiency prevents others from knowing the truth as well!

“Prodigy” (Incantation Specialist)

“Black Sheep” (Magical Lineage): Being the only “non-mage” in a magical family must be rough.

“Magically Sensitive Third-Eye” (Sensitive to Magic): He may not understand that he is sensing magic, but he will!

“Supernaturally Sensitive Third-Eye” (Sensitive to the Supernatural): as above, but to beasties

“Anti-Magical” (Magic Resistance): His strong mind makes him resistant to magic?

“Paragon” (Artistic): Believes psionics simply make him better

“Strong Mind” (Great Mystical Strength)

“Psychokinetic Muscles” (Supernatural Strength)

Most Sorcerous Proficiencies can be chosen. The exceptions are Group Casting, Illusionist, Necromantic Specialist, Servant, and Summoner.

The Pseudo-Mystic can choose to gain any Sorcerous Proficiency besides Granted Memories instead of a gained Secondary Skill, but no more than one per level.

In addition, the Pseudo-Mystic can choose to take Sorcerous Limitations. Each limitation taken allows the Pseudo-Mystic to take another Sorcerous Proficiency. Some combinations do not make sense (ie Sensitive to the Supernatural and Blind to the Supernatural). Also, some limitation may not work for this class, like Forgetful.

Limitations can be added as often as once per level in exchange for a new Proficiency, and can be removed instead of gaining a new Proficiency or Secondary skill (per the rules in Through the Glass Darkly)

After discovering the truth, any proficiency or limitation may be chosen, without limitation.

8) Psionics: The Pseudo-Mystic cannot have Psionic powers! He is considered a non-psychic and requires a 15 or better to saves versus psionic attack (and see bonuses below).

9) Base P.P.E.: P.E. x2 +6D6. He gains an extra 3D8 per level starting at level two. The Pseudo-Mystic can draw P.P.E. from other sources (i.e. ley lines, nexuses, etc.) but only after learning the truth (see #3 above).

10) Pseudo-Mystic O.C.C. Bonuses: +1D4 to any mental attribute, + 2 to save vs. Magic and Psionics, +1 vs. Magic, Possession, and Psionics at levels 4, 8, and 12, +2 to save vs. Horror Factor, +1 vs. Horror Factor at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15. +1 to Perception at levels 2, 5, 8, 11, and 14. Spell Strength is 12 until he discovers the truth. +1 spell strength at levels 3, 6, 10, and 14 (does not get bonuses until truth is learned. Apply all bonuses retroactively if truth is learned after 3rd level)

Pseudo-Mystic O.C.C.
Alignment: Any, but most (70%) are selfish.
Attribute Requirements: I.Q. 12, M.E. 12, and P.E. 10 or higher.
Race: Any race that can utilize both magic and psionics.

O.C.C. Skills: (Chaos Earth) Mainly common skills known to most people of Chaos Earth.
Speak, Read, and Write (Literacy) Native Language at 86% (typically English, Spanish, or French)
Basic Math (+25%)
Computer Operation (+15%)
Lore: Any (+10%)
Pilot: Automobile or Motorcycle (+10%)
Pilot: Vehicle of Choice (conventional: +10%)
Two Domestic skills of choice (+15%)
Two Technical or Science skills of choice (+15%)
Two Electrical, Mechanical, or Medical skills of choice (+10%)
Hand-to-Hand Basic (can be upgraded to Expert for one other skill, Martial Arts for two, or Assassin (if Anarchist or Evil) for three)
NOTE: GM may allow Hand-to-Hand Commando in place of Assassin

O.C.C. Related Skills: The people of Chaos Earth were members of an advanced civilization and culture before the ley lines erupted and Armageddon ensued. Consequently, most are highly educated with a high school education and some college or trade school type training for most adults. As a result, pick one Skill Category in which the character is a “skilled professional” and choose THREE skills from it, with each getting a +20% skill bonus. Then, select an additional eight skills from any of the available categories listed below, and 1 additional skill at levels 3, 5, 8, 10 and 13 (one every 2.5 levels). All new skills start at the base skill level. Note: Skills should conform to the character' s background, age and history. Geniuses are more likely to "bend the rules" and somehow learn (even
by book reading) highly unlikely skills, but some limits should apply. Game masters are the final arbiters of whether
or not a skill is appropriate for a player.

Communications: Any, +5 % for Language and Literacy.
Domestic: Any (+10%)
Electrical: Any (+5%)
Espionage: Any
Mechanical: Any (+5%)
Medical: Any
Military: Any
Physical: Any
Pilot: Any (+5%)
Pilot Related: Any
Rogue: Any
Science: Any
Technical: Any (+5%)
W.P.: Any
Wilderness: Any

Secondary Skills: Starts with 4 secondary skills, and gets two more secondary skills at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 14. These are additional areas of knowledge that do not get the advantage of the bonuses listed in parenthesis above. All new skills start at the base skill level and normal restrictions apply.

Note for non-Chaos Earth settings: Use skills appropriate to the character’s world of origin, but make sure to include the bonuses from above (listed with O.C.C. and Other skills). Also, the character should continue to gain skills at the rates listed above as this is part of his “Genius” nature.

Starting Equipment: Most survivors of the initial cataclysm have only the clothes on their backs and a few items they have salvaged or scavenged. Pseudo-Mystic gear includes an air filter or gas mask, worn but rugged overalls, a knit cap, work gloves, water-proof workman’s boots, three pairs of socks, goggles or sunglasses, 1D4 +1 changes of clothes, a heavy jacket or coat, belt, satchel or duffle bag, back pack, Multi-function tool or Swiss Army Knife, First Aid kit, pocket computer, 1D4 notebooks, 1D4 permanent markers, 1D4 mechanical pencils, 1D4 pens, flashlight, disposable lighter, some rope or cord (20-50 feet), canteen, 1D6 plastic water bottles.

Also has one S.D.C. weapon per weapon proficiency but does not have a vehicle or armor.

This character, perhaps more than any other, will seek out and use magical equipment.

Money: Has 1D6 x 1000 credits (which are all but worthless now) and 1D6 x 100 credits worth of tradable goods. May or may not find employment or have a job that still provides some sort of pay (room and board, food, protection, etc.).

Cybernetics: None and avoids them like the plague (cybernetics interfere with psionics and magic).


XP:
1 0,000-2,120
2 2,121-4,240
3 4,241-8,480
4 8,481 - 16,960
5 16,961-24,960
6 24,961 - 34,960
7 34,961 - 49,960
8 49,961 - 69,960
9 69,961 - 94,960
10 94,961-129,960
11 129,961 - 179,960
12 179,961 - 229,960
13 229,961 - 279,960
14 279,961 - 329,960
15 329,961 - 389,960

interesting gray area this is kudos.

Riftmaker wrote:interesting gray area this is kudos.

Thanks

Like the concept Two suggestions.

The 4-24 ppe a level is kind of high at the top end.

And 4 skill slots should get Hand to Hands Commando, hand to hand Assassin should cost 3 if evil.

3d8 is an odd number to get every level. Maybe 2d4+ 6 or so

For a chaos earth era Mystic, this is a homerun.
A little tweaking and send in to a Rifter.,

Riftmaker wrote:3d8 is an odd number to get every level. Maybe 2d4+ 6 or so

+3D8 is intentional. He starts rather low, but grows fast. Also, he lacks ISP like normal mystics so his TOTAL resources are in line with normal mystics.

barna10 wrote:

Riftmaker wrote:3d8 is an odd number to get every level. Maybe 2d4+ 6 or so

+3D8 is intentional. He starts rather low, but grows fast. Also, he lacks ISP like normal mystics so his TOTAL resources are in line with normal mystics.

Are you factoring in that 1 PPE = 2 ISP conversion ratio that is typically used? That would put it more like ~2d6+3 (4d4 or maybe even 3d6) instead of 3d8 (4d6).

Also Mage classes that don't have Psychics generally aren't better at the per level PPE growth than those w/psychic ability, at least the ones I glanced at in the main book.

There are 2 factors. First, the pseudo-mystics starting P.P.E. will be 44 on average. A normal Mystic's P.P.E. will be 70 on average. In addition, the Mystic gets an average of 50 I.S.P. starting. At a 2 - 1 ratio of I.S.P. to P.P.E., this ~= 95 points total for your average 1st level Mystic. Even if the average Pseudo Mystic rolled MAX per level, it'll be 4th level before it eclipses the 1st level Mystic. And this doesn't even come close to a Ley Line Walker with an average starting P.P.E. of 152.

The 3D8 was intentionally supposed to represent the character's growing knowledge as he goes up in level. Now that I look at it, it's way to variable. I'll probably change it to 10 + 2D6 or something like that.

Ummmm
So this guy gets the best magical features of a mystic, spell thief, and an Arcanist. Plus 2 spells per level AND gets the secret class abilities of a number of other OCCs?

Am I missing something here or should this be labeled "Arch-mage"?

eliakon wrote:Ummmm
So this guy gets the best magical features of a mystic, spell thief, and an Arcanist. Plus 2 spells per level AND gets the secret class abilities of a number of other OCCs?

Am I missing something here or should this be labeled "Arch-mage"?

He gets spells, that's it. He is a Mystical Genius that is good at learning spells. He is a variant of the Genius/Natural which means he is a savant when it comes to magic, so much so that he figures it all out on his own. He doesn't know there should be limits like not learning Warlock spells.

He'll have a vast magical repertoire at some point, but that's it. No innate powers, no mega-damage conversions, no free familiars or cauldrons, spells don't cost him less, etc. He just just has the potential to know a lot of varied spells.

And what "secret class abilities of a number of other O.C.C.s are you referring to? Besides "Read and Acquire Magic" from the Chi Mage, what are you referring to?

barna10 wrote:

eliakon wrote:Ummmm
So this guy gets the best magical features of a mystic, spell thief, and an Arcanist. Plus 2 spells per level AND gets the secret class abilities of a number of other OCCs?

Am I missing something here or should this be labeled "Arch-mage"?

He gets spells, that's it. He is a Mystical Genius that is good at learning spells. He is a variant of the Genius/Natural which means he is a savant when it comes to magic, so much so that he figures it all out on his own. He doesn't know there should be limits like not learning Warlock spells.

He'll have a vast magical repertoire at some point, but that's it. No innate powers, no mega-damage conversions, no free familiars or cauldrons, spells don't cost him less, etc. He just just has the potential to know a lot of varied spells.

And what "secret class abilities of a number of other O.C.C.s are you referring to? Besides "Read and Acquire Magic" from the Chi Mage, what are you referring to?

Access to the class only ability to read wards
Access to the class only ability to make circles
Then there is the fact that he can learn spells that are unlearnable (warlock spells supposedly require a link to the elemental planes)
And if he really can learn any spell, then he has the 'unique special' ability of the Temporal Wizard, Cloud Classes, Warlocks, Biomancers, (possibly) Whale Singers, Necromancers, Witches, Mirror Mages, Flesh Sculptors, Shamans......
The whole "can learn any spell at all" is a HUGE power, since dozens of classes have as their sole ability 'access to a special form of magic"
So yah, someone who can literally learn any form of magic in existence, intuitively mind you, is pretty much an Arch-Mage. He just wakes up and is already a better wizard than 99% of every other caster in the Megaverse.......
If that was the intent then sure....but if that wasn't the desire then it probably should be scaled way back. At the minimum they should only be able to learn and cast 'arcane' spells. I.e. spells that are taught. So no Warlock spells, no Shaman spells, no Biomancy, etc.
I would also strongly advise that they not just intuitively pick up the abilities for runes and circles as those are considered some of the rarest and most exotic forms of magic in the Megaverse....it seems odd for someone to just 'know it' just because.
The last thing is that the PPE gain is huge. Sure they have a low base....but they have one of the greatest gains of PPE per level of any OCC and many RCCs. Godlings get 4d6 PPE per level if they are casters....so he gets as much as a full godling!

Which is a good comparison. This person just 'wakes up' one day and is a better wizard than a godling or demigod who chooses to follow magic. That seems a bit.....off.

eliakon wrote:Access to the class only ability to read wards
Access to the class only ability to make circles
Then there is the fact that he can learn spells that are unlearnable (warlock spells supposedly require a link to the elemental planes)
And if he really can learn any spell, then he has the 'unique special' ability of the Temporal Wizard, Cloud Classes, Warlocks, Biomancers, (possibly) Whale Singers, Necromancers, Witches, Mirror Mages, Flesh Sculptors, Shamans......
The whole "can learn any spell at all" is a HUGE power, since dozens of classes have as their sole ability 'access to a special form of magic"
So yah, someone who can literally learn any form of magic in existence, intuitively mind you, is pretty much an Arch-Mage. He just wakes up and is already a better wizard than 99% of every other caster in the Megaverse.......
If that was the intent then sure....but if that wasn't the desire then it probably should be scaled way back. At the minimum they should only be able to learn and cast 'arcane' spells. I.e. spells that are taught. So no Warlock spells, no Shaman spells, no Biomancy, etc.
I would also strongly advise that they not just intuitively pick up the abilities for runes and circles as those are considered some of the rarest and most exotic forms of magic in the Megaverse....it seems odd for someone to just 'know it' just because.
The last thing is that the PPE gain is huge. Sure they have a low base....but they have one of the greatest gains of PPE per level of any OCC and many RCCs. Godlings get 4d6 PPE per level if they are casters....so he gets as much as a full godling!

First off, there's nothing saying ONLY Diabolists and Summoners can use Wards and Circles. the description of the Alchemist even implies others can use these, but they refuse to teach them to non-Diabolists and non-Summoners; saying they refuse to teach non-Diabolists and non-Summoners is a useless statement if non-Diabolists and non-Summoners can't even use Wards/Circles. Also, there's now the Demon hunter from Armageddon Unlimited which can learn Circle Magic (and there's nothing keeping them from getting better and learning more).

Also, in older editions of the game, Wizards could use Circles, right off the bat. Seems better to me.

Given the rules in Through the Glass darkly, anyone could develop any of the Warlock spells and cast them. Same with other types of magic. Also, there are several passages that imply Ley Line Walkers can cast any type of spell since they are the supreme masters of spell magic.

In addition, BTS1 Arcanists are listed as being the ONLY casters capable of using ALL types of magic (it even says "This includes EVERYTHING mentioned in the magic section"). You also have the Chi Mage which can learn ANY type of spell as long as it's written down.

And yes, the PPE gain is large, but as I demonstrated, it takes them a long while to catch up to their peers:

15th level average Ley Line Walker ~ 320 PPE | max at 15th level (with 30 PE) = 482 PPE
15th level (proposed) average Pseudo-Mystic ~ 254 PPE | max at 15th level (with 30 PE) = 432 PPE

Not sure where the problem is there. Yes the Pseudo Mystic has a decent amount of PPE, but it's not outrageous. He just get's more later in his career where others are front-loaded with it.

So yes, impressive on paper, but really just a dude that's really good at casting spells (and may learn some wards or circles, just like other non-Diablists and non-Summoners can). And I respect others might not want a character like this in their games or that they might like to segregate Wards and Circles to only two, lackluster O.C.C.s in PFRPG, but that doesn't mean that's the way everyone thinks. Also, these guys are Magical Savants, the Einsteins of Magic. Yes, the simply "figure it out".

The cool storyline I always thought for these guys is the ramifications of their abilities. Imagine what the Spluggorth or some other evil baddy might do with one of these...They'd become a hot commodity. Heck, they might even scour the Megaverse looking for Pseudo Mystics to enslave or sell.

eliakon wrote:Which is a good comparison. This person just 'wakes up' one day and is a better wizard than a godling or demigod who chooses to follow magic. That seems a bit.....off.

Ley Line Walkers and Shifters are better than most Godlings and Demigods.

Actually you cant use the TtGD rules to cast a warlock spell.
You could try research a spell that replicates the effect of one. Though it might be higher level, and/or cost more PPE. It might also not be possible. Not everything that one wants to do is possible (remember the example Agony spell?) Just because it is theoretically possible to design something on paper doesn't mean that it works. Unless we are going to go with the premise that someone that knows 'all spells of X level' is actually omnipotent since it would be possible to design a spell to do anything and make it what ever level you desire.....

eliakon wrote:Actually you cant use the TtGD rules to cast a warlock spell.
You could try research a spell that replicates the effect of one. Though it might be higher level, and/or cost more PPE. It might also not be possible. Not everything that one wants to do is possible (remember the example Agony spell?) Just because it is theoretically possible to design something on paper doesn't mean that it works. Unless we are going to go with the premise that someone that knows 'all spells of X level' is actually omnipotent since it would be possible to design a spell to do anything and make it what ever level you desire.....

And all this only matters if for individual games. If, like in my games, no one ever plays the more obscure classes, what difference does it make if their abilities aren't exclusive to them? For instance, I've been playing Palladium stuff for 25 years. I've never been in a game with a Warlock, a diabolist, or a Summoner. So, we can either keep playing without Warlock spells, wards, or circles, OR we could just loosen the restrictions and have fun.

Good luck. The hater squad apparently has made a decision now ours troll until you get banned time.

As I said earlier, Good occ just too much ppe and four skill slots should get you Hand to Hand Commando.

say652 wrote:Good luck. The hater squad apparently has made a decision now ours troll until you get banned time.

As I said earlier, Good occ just too much ppe and four skill slots should get you Hand to Hand Commando.

Good points

I'm changing the way spells work, and the read/acquire magic ability to make it different than the Chi Mage.

Please tell me what you think of the changes.


These changes still allow the Pseudo Mystic to learn specialty magics, but only if he finds a text or a teacher (ie he needs to work for it and roleplay).

Well I guess it is my turn to chime in.

What caught my eye was the spell translation %, which only the Mystic Study (HU2) and the Wu Shih (MC) have as class abilities. However.......
●The base % you gave the PM is three times that of the Mystic Study a fully trained mage and the level up skill bonus is 250% of the Mystic Study's level up skill bonus.
●While the % & +%/L are the same as the Wu Shih (Chi Mage), the Wu Shih is limited to only finding any new spells by finding them in books.

A fix for this discrepancy would be for the player to make a one time choice: That the char gets level up spells through playing/researching with their abilities. OR that they are fixated on searching through books to find new spells so that is the only way they get new spells.
With both options the char does not get anymore spells "intuitively". This might mean that the char does not get anymore Chaos Magic spells.

Spells available: You have no provision in the text for the char NOT getting spells that require a link to something (warlock spells & mirror magic) or that magic derived from specialty magic costing more then invocation spells (like how necro spells cost double to invocation/common magic mages).

A couple things you left out were spell scroll conversions and being taught spells, can they/can't they, and if they can: how the numbers are different from the Fully trained mages' numbers.

Principles of Magic: There are a few different base %'s for this skill depending on the type of class the char is. I am Presuming that you mean that the PM has the lowest base % of 36% as to be equal to a starting % of 56% for what they understand intuitively before they realizing they are doing magic.

Lore: Magic: No they would not know any of this.

Sensing Magic: this is what I think you meant when you included the magic lore text.
There should be a variable in the sensitivity of this between individuals. like the range or target discrimination of the senses.

Magic Symbols: No they would not know this if they are not psychic with you said they are not. Along with the magic lore text this looks like the inner munchkin being let out. Omitting both would be the fix.

Perception Bonuses: with the perception bonus table you gave it looks like you are writing this for a post RUE Rifts, and you said you were writing for worlds/societies/communities that don't know magic is real.
Fix: change the table to a one time bonus that plays with the normal perception bonuses listed with the perception text (+1 @ L's 3,9,15) or say that the bonuses listed are the only ones the char gets. And cut them down a bit your inner munchkin is showing here also.

Once a spell has been successfully deciphered, the Pseudo-Mystic can attempt to cast it. Casting requires an additional roll against the characters skill proficiency. However, if the spell casting succeeds, then the character can add that spell to his/her list of known spells ...snip

Just one grammer fumble: Ether add a 'Bad things that happen if you fail Table' or omit the word 'However'.
You might want to ask if there are such lists.

First off, thanks for the opinion. now, for the critique of the opinion.
Second, I do not use the printed classes (O.C.C., power category, whatever) as some sort of glass ceiling that thou shalt not rise above. That being said...

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What caught my eye was the spell translation %, which only the Mystic Study (HU2) and the Wu Shih (MC) have as class abilities. However.......
●The base % you gave the PM is three times that of the Mystic Study a fully trained mage and the level up skill bonus is 250% of the Mystic Study's level up skill bonus.
●While the % & +%/L are the same as the Wu Shih (Chi Mage), the Wu Shih is limited to only finding any new spells by finding them in books.

This character is a mystical savant. Yes, he will be better at academic mystical tasks than the Mystic Study. Also, the text for Read/Acquire magic is the same as the Wu Shi, please verify, thank you.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:A fix for this discrepancy would be for the player to make a one time choice: That the char gets level up spells through playing/researching with their abilities. OR that they are fixated on searching through books to find new spells so that is the only way they get new spells.
With both options the char does not get anymore spells "intuitively". This might mean that the char does not get anymore Chaos Magic spells.

This makes no sense. There is no reason for a class to forgo learning spells per level just because they can gain them in another way. Also, there is no "discrepancy" because there is no "standard" to disagree with.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Spells available: You have no provision in the text for the char NOT getting spells that require a link to something (warlock spells & mirror magic) or that magic derived from specialty magic costing more then invocation spells (like how necro spells cost double to invocation/common magic mages).

Both the original version and the revised version (see one post above yours) have a provision for this. Please re-read.
original: "Non-invocation spells that are from a school of magic associated with an external force (ie. Warlock Spells) cost the Pseudo-Mystic an additional 20% P.P.E. (round up) to compensate for the lack of a connection with the external force."
revised: "NOTE: You may want to require specialty magics to cost more P.P.E. (usually double), but this is up to you and not required."

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:A couple things you left out were spell scroll conversions and being taught spells, can they/can't they, and if they can: how the numbers are different from the Fully trained mages' numbers.

Dumbfounded...scrolls are covered by Read/Acquire magic, can learn spells from another at rate of 1 hour/spell level. Please reread.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Principles of Magic: There are a few different base %'s for this skill depending on the type of class the char is. I am Presuming that you mean that the PM has the lowest base % of 36% as to be equal to a starting % of 56% for what they understand intuitively before they realizing they are doing magic.

You would use whatever base percentage you used in your game.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Lore: Magic: No they would not know any of this.

Magic Symbols: No they would not know this if they are not psychic with you said they are not. Along with the magic lore text this looks like the inner munchkin being let out. Omitting both would be the fix.

Totally erroneous statements. There are other examples of O.C.C.s that get intuitive Lore skills. For instance, the D-Shifter that gets intuitive Lore: Demons & Monsters. There's nothing munchkin about providing an alternate mechanism for gaining knowledge. What difference does it make where he gained the knowledge? Whether he spent 20 years at Hogwarts or just woke up one morning with the knowledge it's all just flavor text which doesn't have an impact on the game.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Sensing Magic: this is what I think you meant when you included the magic lore text.
There should be a variable in the sensitivity of this between individuals. like the range or target discrimination of the senses.

No, I meant Lore: Magic. The "Sense Ley Line and Magic Energy" ability covers sensing magic (see ability #1)

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Perception Bonuses: with the perception bonus table you gave it looks like you are writing this for a post RUE Rifts, and you said you were writing for worlds/societies/communities that don't know magic is real.
Fix: change the table to a one time bonus that plays with the normal perception bonuses listed with the perception text (+1 @ L's 3,9,15) or say that the bonuses listed are the only ones the char gets. And cut them down a bit your inner munchkin is showing here also.

Interesting how you consider Perception to be a power stat and that giving someone a high bonus to perception is somehow "munchkinism". Yes, I used RUE as a basis for the perception bonuses, because Chaos Earth didn't include perception mechanics or bonuses. Also, the character is SUPPOSED to be perceptive....and he only gets a total of +5 at 14th level....munchkin...in fact, they get less Perception bonuses than the RUE MYSTIC!!! (RUE Mystic Perception bonuses: +1 on Perception Rolls at levels 1,3,6,8,10,12, and 14...that's +7 at level 14...you do the math)

There is nothing munchkin about this class. He doesn't get psionics and magic, doesn't have more PPE than any other class, doesn't get the equivalent of super powers, get NO combat bonuses, doesn't have higher bonuses than other classes, and really is only good at one thing: learning spells. To focus on the ONE thing they're SUPPOSED to be good at and call the class "munchkin" is a ludicrous statement. One might as well look at the Gunslinger and point out that they get more initiative bonuses than any other class and call it a "munchkin class".

Sorry, but that critique was ridiculous. Please at least read what was posted before attempting to rip it apart. Critiquing something without actually reading it makes one look like a fool and detracts from the constructive discussion that could be going on.

Actually, I agree with Barna10. There is already a precedent for starting with a lore skill (and the principles of magic skill if you use that). Its just that instead of formal research you just have hunches and recall stuff.
The results will be a bit different
Wizard might say "That looks like an impaler rune sword, the Splugorth are the most famous users of these."
The psudedo might say "look at those symbols on that blade, and the way the smaller blades move. I notice that the blade is totally un nicked even after cutting that Silver Eagle to shreds. Definitely a greater magic item. I think its related to that staff the other team found. See this symbol here is the same"
Both of them got a successful ID on lore....

I may think the class is something suitable for very high power games with mega-heroes and cosmo-knights....that doesn't mean I think it is 'munchkin'. I just don't think it is something that I would use.
I ask my questions as it seemed to be overbuilt in some areas. The author insisted that those were deliberate design choices, so who am I to say they are wrong? Its not like I have to use this in my game, or like once this is finished it will be added to canon or anything. It can be as powerful or as weak as the designer wishes.

Perception
Geee....I didn't know you knew I had the early Protoculture Addicts fanzine that had the perception attribute.*sarcasm* And I have the next issue that has the VT Ace mod that has a perception stat score requirement. All of which is not a part of this cause nether are PB published canon and that was for RT 1st ed.

However, as a game mechanic was introduced into the PB system was in the NightSpawn main book. And I have the NSMB. So I know it not a "stat" and the perception Stat bonus is based off the IQ score on the ME psi bonus table.
This was proved I knew what I was talking about by me posting the normal perc. level up bonuses.
I would like it if you would reciprocate and actually read what I wrote.


Principles of Magic: Again, you did not READ what I wrote. You might want to REREAD it. The question was not about which setting's PoM was being used. And since you stated it was the one in the NB:TtGD you sort of left the choice about which setting's PoM to use out of the question.

Lore:magic: Eli touched on this. While the trained magic would end up knowing Exactly what the magic they were examining, while the PM would just be able to deduce it's something magic. That is unless the char had specifically encountered that specific magic/magic item before. Deducing is not knowing the lore, even if they use the same %'s.

Magic Symbols: You stated they are not psychics, so they can't "just know" what the symbols "Are"/"mean" without being taught them or learning them. The Diabolist only has a 88% skill @L1 to read runes/symbols.
So by your own words they cannot just intuitively know what they mean.

Being taught spells: yes, I see your text now.
The 1 hour per level stated is quite a bit overpowered.

And
Mystics can't teach their spells to anyone. Sorry, but this is a core idea of the class. S the PM can't be taught spells by mystics.
I am not saying the PMs can't "get ideas for self researched spells from mystics.
Just that mystics in all their forms Can Not Teach Magic to Anyone.

Specialty magic: the wording would be "the PPE cost of specialty magic is double the normal cost for the Pseudo Mystic." Note how this phrasing requires the additional PPE?

Elemental spells: while yes they can be mimicked by invocation spells the invocations spells mincing the elemental spells are not elemental spells in and of themselves, and again require double the normal PPE via the TtGD text you referenced.
Lacking the the link required to cast certain spells means that those spells CanNot Be Cast W/O That Link. That is The Point of those forms of magic.

Gaining spells
Did you note WHY the Wu Shih has a 25%+5%/L for translating written spells into actual spells? Because that is the ONLY WAY they get spells.
Another way to Fix this would be to reduce the numbers of automatic level up spells and use the Mystic Study Spell translation %s. Maybe add a 10% bonus to reflect the char is smart/talented.
Otherwise the gaining spells sections are OverPowered. Yes, this has something to do with "Game Balance".

Note, in the MoM1 book the half wizard does have reference between being a prodigy and other different levels of talent.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Perception
Geee....I didn't know you knew I had the early Protoculture Addicts fanzine that had the perception attribute.*sarcasm* And I have the next issue that has the VT Ace mod that has a perception stat score requirement. All of which is not a part of this cause nether are PB published canon and that was for RT 1st ed.

However, as a game mechanic was introduced into the PB system was in the NightSpawn main book. And I have the NSMB. So I know it not a "stat" and the perception Stat bonus is based off the IQ score on the ME psi bonus table.
This was proved I knew what I was talking about by me posting the normal perc. level up bonuses.
I would like it if you would reciprocate and actually read what I wrote.


Principles of Magic: Again, you did not READ what I wrote. You might want to REREAD it. The question was not about which setting's PoM was being used. And since you stated it was the one in the NB:TtGD you sort of left the choice about which setting's PoM to use out of the question.

Lore:magic: Eli touched on this. While the trained magic would end up knowing Exactly what the magic they were examining, while the PM would just be able to deduce it's something magic. That is unless the char had specifically encountered that specific magic/magic item before. Deducing is not knowing the lore, even if they use the same %'s.

Magic Symbols: You stated they are not psychics, so they can't "just know" what the symbols "Are"/"mean" without being taught them or learning them. The Diabolist only has a 88% skill @L1 to read runes/symbols.
So by your own words they cannot just intuitively know what they mean.

Being taught spells: yes, I see your text now.
The 1 hour per level stated is quite a bit munchkin.

And
Mystics can't teach their spells to anyone. Sorry, but this is a core idea of the class. S the PM can't be taught spells by mystics.
I am not saying the PMs can't "get ideas for self researched spells from mystics.
Just that mystics in all their forms Can Not Teach Magic to Anyone.

Specialty magic: the wording would be "the PPE cost of specialty magic is double the normal cost for the Pseudo Mystic." Note how this phrasing requires the additional PPE?

Elemental spells: while yes they can be mimicked by invocation spells the invocations spells mincing the elemental spells are not elemental spells in and of themselves, and again require double the normal PPE via the TtGD text you referenced.
Lacking the the link required to cast certain spells means that those spells CanNot Be Cast W/O That Link. That is The Point of those forms of magic.

Gaining spells
Did you note WHY the Wu Shih has a 25%+5%/L for translating written spells into actual spells? Because that is the ONLY WAY they get spells.
Another way to Fix this would be to reduce the numbers of automatic level up spells and use the Mystic Study Spell translation %s. Maybe add a 10% bonus to reflect the char is smart/talented.
Otherwise the gaining spells sections are OverPowered. Yes, this has something to do with "Game Balance".

Note, in the MoM1 book the half wizard does have reference between being a prodigy and other different levels of talent.

Your opinions have been noted, but I not be considering them any further. Thank you.

What about the legitimate questions I asked that you have yet to answer? Like the "what is the Base % for the Principles of magic do your PM's get?" question. And don't try to give me the asinine brush-off "whatever it is in the setting you are using" cause very well know that there is only one setting with that skill listed in it.

There there is the question about the "intuitive" PoM skill.....since you said that after the PM learns it is doing magic that the skill starts at level 1, does this mean that before then the 'intuitive' PoM skill is a fixed skill like with the fixed climbing & prowl skills that come with Gymnastics and acrobatics?
--------------------
As to my opinions, Let me give you a second one so they will be plural so you will have said the truth that you will be ignoring my opinions.

In a summery...Overall this character template would of been better written up as a HU power cat. so the holes; incomplete parts and the internally self paradoxical text; in the writing would of been on par with the other char template write-ups there and the char made from this template would of been overly overpowered for the setting it was written for when used in a high level megaheros game. As a Character Class it is unsutible for playing in any of the the settings that use Character Classes.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What about the legitimate questions I asked that you have yet to answer? Like the "what is the Base % for the Principles of magic do your PM's get?" question. And don't try to give me the asinine brush-off "whatever it is in the setting you are using" cause very well know that there is only one setting with that skill listed in it.

There there is the question about the "intuitive" PoM skill.....since you said that after the PM learns it is doing magic that the skill starts at level 1, does this mean that before then the 'intuitive' PoM skill is a fixed skill like with the fixed climbing & prowl skills that come with Gymnastics and acrobatics?
--------------------
As to my opinions, Let me give you a second one so they will be plural so you will have said the truth that you will be ignoring my opinions.

In a summery...Overall this character template would of been better written up as a HU power cat. so the holes; incomplete parts and the internally self paradoxical text; in the writing would of been on par with the other char template write-ups there and the char made from this template would of been overly overpowered for the setting it was written for when used in a high level megaheros game. As a Character Class it is unsutible for playing in any of the the settings that use Character Classes.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Principles of Magic: There are a few different base %'s for this skill depending on the type of class the char is. I am Presuming that you mean that the PM has the lowest base % of 36% as to be equal to a starting % of 56% for what they understand intuitively before they realizing they are doing magic.

Again, the Pseudo-Mystic only gets Principles of Magic after he figures out he is actually using magic so there is no period before this where they possess this skill. Also, since they are a full-blown mage at this point, the base percentage is 60%...if you used Nightbane.

Principles of Magic was not introduced in Nightbane (or Nightspwan...much better name...shouldn't have sold my copy...) even though Through the Glass Darkly say it was, it was first introduced in BTS1 with the Arcanist (base 70%) and the Parapsychologist (base 50%). The Parapsychologist in BTS2 also has this skill with a base of 50%. The Para-Arcane in Chaos Earth has "Simpatico with Magic" which is virtually the same skill with a base percentage of 30%.

So, if you were in a pure Chaos Earth setting, you may want the base to be 30%. In Nightbane it might be 60%. Your call, your game.

Regarding the power of the class: it is an entirely odd interpretation of the class that it is powerful. Versatile: yes. Knowledgeable: yes. Powerful: no. It is no more powerful than any other full-blown caster. The class starts with 8 spells and gains a minimum of 4 spells per level. Compare this to the Ley Line Walker who starts with 12 spells and gains 1 per level. Who wins in a fight? By your logic it must be the Pseudo Mystic because he can have a greater spell arsenal. Does he cast more spells per round? No. Does he have more P.P.E.? No. Does he have other O.C.C. abilities to call on? No. Can he have psionics to supplement his magic? No. Does he get a free mega-damage creature force field on a Ley Line? No. Can he teleport like a Shifter? No. Can a Ley Line Walker learn any spell? Yes. Can a Ley Line Walker learn spells at a rate faster than 2 days per spell level? Yes (read Mysteries of Magic). I think the describing this class as overpowered or Mega-Hero worthy is incredibly dishonest at the worst, and extremely misinformed at the least.

Again, your opinions have been noted, but they have no bearing in this discussion or the design of this class. You seem to be reading your own version of the text, or you are just attempting to troll. Either way, let's please move on.

I thought the basic idea was interesting. I didn't like the implementation of it myself. But I liked the idea that barna10 had. My personal solution of course was to break out rule zero and say Hmmmm, this looks almost useful for my purposes but not quite followed by a bit of tinkering to make a version that I think would be perfect for my games.
I suspect that barna10 would be displeased (or maybe not who knows) at the result as I am sure it does not fit his idea of the intention anymore. But that's fine, it should work for what I want it to do and that is what matters right?
Honestly if at the end of the day a pseudo-mystic is shows up in my game and everyone has fun, then regardless of the final details on his abilities or what have you....it was a success and his idea worked (it made the game more fun in some way or form)

eliakon wrote:I thought the basic idea was interesting. I didn't like the implementation of it myself. But I liked the idea that barna10 had. My personal solution of course was to break out rule zero and say Hmmmm, this looks almost useful for my purposes but not quite followed by a bit of tinkering to make a version that I think would be perfect for my games.
I suspect that barna10 would be displeased (or maybe not who knows) at the result as I am sure it does not fit his idea of the intention anymore. But that's fine, it should work for what I want it to do and that is what matters right?
Honestly if at the end of the day a pseudo-mystic is shows up in my game and everyone has fun, then regardless of the final details on his abilities or what have you....it was a success and his idea worked (it made the game more fun in some way or form)

Agreed. Please, feel free to take this idea and change it. Consider it public domain. Won't offend me at all.

Finally got around to doing some edits on this class.

I updated the original post.

Main changes are I added some spells to the initial choices, added magical equivalents to Mind Block and Total Recall (to put them in-line with other Geniuses), and removed "Read and Acquire Magic" and replaced it with Sorcerous Proficiencies that masquerade as psionic talents. I also tweaked the spell learning rules.

Many of you were correct that Read and Acquire magic just was not a good fit.

This has been play-tested a few times over the years, and is about to be tested in it's current format!

Changing how the character learns/develops spells...

4) Learning New Spells: Every level beyond the first, the Pseudo-Mystic will intuitively develop new powers/spells. At second level pick 2 spells from the list above and 1 Chaos Magic spell.

At second level and above, the character’s mastery of his powers begins to grow. Instead of choosing a spell from the above list, the character can choose to take the magical equivalent of a psychic power! The Pseudo-Mystic intuitively devises a new spell that mirrors a know psionic power. At first, only minor powers are available, but at higher levels, Super-Psionic powers can be learned this way as well.

The new “spell” has the same duration, range, and effect as the psionic power. The P.P.E. cost of the new spell is the same as the psionic power. For example, if the character learned a magical equivalent of Mind Block, it would have a range of “self”, the duration would be ten minutes per level, and the cost would be 4 P.P.E. per casting.

For spell level purposes, take the I.S.P. cost of the psionic ability, divide by 5 (round up), and add 2 for super-psionic powers. The minimum spell level is 2. For variable costs powers, use the highest cost for calculations (Mind Bolt would be a tenth level spell: max 40 I.S.P. cost, plus 2 for being a super-psionic power). For powers with a cost per a certain number of units (like Telekinesis), calculate the level based on two units (Telekinesis is a second level spell, Telekinesis (Super) is a sixth level spell). The Pseudo-Mystic can only devise spells with an equivalent level of the character’s level or lower.

At any point, the character may realize that he is casting spells (see #3, above). This changes the character's outlook and hinders his ability to develop new spells. Each level AFTER the character learns the truth, he will be able to figure out TWO new spells. Spells are limited to spells of equal or lower level, but he can develop spells from any magical discipline, much like a Mystic.

After learning the truth, the Pseudo-Mystic can learn spells like other full mages. However, his natural magic genius allows him to learn spells taught by another in less time. Instead of the normal 2 days per spell level, the Pseudo-Mystic requires a mere hour per spell level to learn a spell! In addition, the Pseudo-Mystic is capable of learning spells from ANY caster, even other Mystics. The caster must be willing to describe the casting of the spell and demonstrate casting the spell so the Pseudo-Mystic can witness the casting (meaning some spells cannot be learned in this way, like ones requiring huge amounts of P.P.E. or Sorcerous Fury which requires the death of the caster…). This is a draining endeavor requiring the expenditure of 15 P.P.E. per spell level by the Pseudo-Mystic, and the Pseudo-Mystic will be physically drained requiring a full night’s rest after learning the spell.

Updated skill selections to reflect "Natural/Genius" nature

This is nice.

There are some psionic powers such that, should they be converted to spells by a Pseudo-Mystic and then taught to another mage after the PM learns the truth, could have potential for abuse. Increasing the PPE cost for most when cast by someone other than the PM would work well enough for most effects. Things like Restore PPE, Transfer ISP, and niche psionics such as Animal/Illusion/Phase/Oni Ninja/Rifts China Chi might throw some games for a loop.

2 "Psychic Powers"

Item #2 should read 'Magic Powers'.