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ive had the idea of converting shotgun shells to shoot different spells with a modified shotgun, that way a person can carry several shells for different purposes, the shells can be recharged when/if needed

Try using the CFT ammo from New West as your base. I believe there's a shotgun from Juicer Uprising which can be used for this purpose, too.

Humm so your making a caster gun like outlaw star? I'd go with either a talisman spell or create scroll for the ammo if you want it to be re usable. If not just work out how to enchant each bullit. It will probably be cheaper that way. I'd talk to the GM on giving you a break on the creation cost if it was one use and done king of ammo.

Riftmaker wrote:Humm so your making a caster gun like outlaw star? I'd go with either a talisman spell or create scroll for the ammo if you want it to be re usable. If not just work out how to enchant each bullit. It will probably be cheaper that way. I'd talk to the GM on giving you a break on the creation cost if it was one use and done king of ammo.

Probably would have been a good idea not to say that, because now you make the thread sound like an attempt at a conversion of the Caster Gun instead of a generic thread.

mercedogre wrote:ive had the idea of converting shotgun shells to shoot different spells with a modified shotgun, that way a person can carry several shells for different purposes, the shells can be recharged when/if needed

I don't think it's an unreasonable design... however, what would be the difference between this is and a "variable gun" that let you flick a switch and shoot a net, a fireball, or what have you?

That said: figure out the price for your delivery system, and the individual price of your shots. I would probably use a spell like Talisman as the base for your "shotgun", with the individual "shells" empowering spells into your talisman. So, you gun, which charges up your talisman, which you then fire.

Mark Hall wrote:

mercedogre wrote:ive had the idea of converting shotgun shells to shoot different spells with a modified shotgun, that way a person can carry several shells for different purposes, the shells can be recharged when/if needed

I don't think it's an unreasonable design... however, what would be the difference between this is and a "variable gun" that let you flick a switch and shoot a net, a fireball, or what have you?

That said: figure out the price for your delivery system, and the individual price of your shots. I would probably use a spell like Talisman as the base for your "shotgun", with the individual "shells" empowering spells into your talisman. So, you gun, which charges up your talisman, which you then fire.

There is that TW crossbow in Merc Ops that switches between normal and TW arrows.

I would think that what they are looking for would best be handled by:
-treating the shells as single use TW devices
-making each shell a Talisman that can be triggered by the shotgun, then recharge the Talisman as normal. This may or may not require TWdry or some additional magic types (like Wards) I think would be simpler than using the "shotgun" for talisman to be empowered by the shells
-don't bother with individual shells, just build in multiple functions to a TW shotgun. This would limit you to four TW functions though, unless the GM rules otherwise to wave the four limit rule or allow a layer of sub-functions (which are not covered by TW rules). You might even be able to get around the rule of 4 by making attachments.

a benefit of using the ammo as the spell holder rather than the gun itself, would be the capability to have numerous amount of ammo pre-charged and ready for battle rather than just a limited number of shots held by the gun, also, multiple spells enchanting a weapon increases the price, the price of the weapon can be kept low and a single spell per ammo would also keep the ammo price lower. Also keep the need for gems down,maybe one good crystal in the weapon to act as a "firing pin" and one good gem/crystal in each shell. rather than a list of gems and crystals embedded in the weapon, something that can be worked on and improved as the TW increases in level and power.

maybe also possible to allow non-mages/non-psychics to use the weapon once all the ammo is charged. might require a PPE storage gem to activate the 'firing pin'.

mercedorge wrote:lso keep the need for gems down,maybe one good crystal in the weapon to act as a "firing pin" and one good gem/crystal in each shell. rather than a list of gems and crystals embedded in the weapon, something that can be worked on and improved as the TW increases in level and power.

In the short run you might keep the gem cost down, but in the long term you might not.

If you are limiting the enchantments to the ammo shell itself, I don't see a reason to enchant the gun at all as presented to act as a firing pin. And it is possible to make the TW item operable by non-mage/psychics.

mercedorge wrote:a benefit of using the ammo as the spell holder rather than the gun itself, would be the capability to have numerous amount of ammo pre-charged and ready for battle rather than just a limited number of shots held by the gun,

There are several flaws with this thinking though by using shells:
-it can take longer to reload or even change out the enchantment at the ready. Built-in, the enchantment options are a flick of a switch and reloads are as fast as you can pump PPE in (or change out the PPE clip or just use the shells as a PPE "clip")
-you could be taking away from other useful materials you could be carrying both in terms of volume and weight/mass
-if you are willing to pay for it, you could have the gun holding far more magical shots by built-in/PPE-clip than you could reasonably carry in the gun and on person.
-as you have to pre-figure what you need, so you might find you didn't bring enough XYZ shells and can't take the time to reload the shell(s), where a built-in could reasonably allow the entire payload to be used in any combination of the functions.
-each is enchanted, so if you need to hide the enchantment for some reason it could potentially be more difficult or it is possible all those little sources could add-up to a "big source" for PPE tracking purposes
-recharging is much more longer, as it is done individually (assuming the GM doesn't require these to be single use items) so if you used 6 shells you have to recharge 6 individual times vs once if it was built-in

The GMG or BoM (don't remember which) lists magic arrows, but gives no mention of how they're made.

flatline wrote:The GMG or BoM (don't remember which) lists magic arrows, but gives no mention of how they're made.

I can't comment on the GMG, but BoM does reprint the ones from Rifts Japan and the Tattoo magic in Splyn Market. Neither are TW, though Japan probably comes closer as they are made by alchemists and the other is basically conjured up. Eco-Wizardry offers a source of arrows in WB26 (and outline to be duplicated), and Merc Ops has the Swarm crossbow bolt that is TW (no production outline). WB5 (pg151) and WB2 (pg153) mentions magic arrows in a cut & paste fashion exist both as TW and regular magical, but not much else. SoT1 mentions that TW Goblin Grenades can also be used for TW arrows. SoT6 also mentions some magic arrows made by the Mystic Kunzyi (sp) in an NPC description.

EDIT: added info about WB5 & WB2

EDIT2: added info from SoT1 & SoT 6

One issue you run into, quickly is you need to first decide on the 'power level' of the game in question.
Yes I know Rifts games are all over the place in power, and yes I know it is a deeply personal issue for a group as to what they want to play...
HOWEVER. This sort of thing is a good example of something that, basically can be implemented in numerous ways depending on the desired power of the final product.

For me, I would be very leery of rechargeable 'shells' for the spell gun unless there were a very limited selection of ammunition types, and the recharging was pricy. Why? Because it quickly runs into the 'easy talisman' issue where it becomes easy to pre-store large amounts of magic in easy to carry, easy to use, convenient forms. To me that is Not A Good Thing....but I freely admit that to some groups this is either 'who cares' or even 'A Very Good Thing' or even "So What? Everyone Does It".

If you need an example of a multi-load TW device though there is the TW Hypo-Spray in Dinosuar Swamp.
In has ....A TW converted Hypo-Spray, that can be used with different 'loads' Each load can be charged with and cast one specific spell. But they have to be spells that make sense in a hypo-spray (No sprays of fireball for instance), and of course it is touch.
Based on that if I were to allow a TW shotgun like this, the base gun would be built, then each shell would be loaded with one spell. The spell would have to be one that could be reasonably be 'fired' from a shotgun. Expect such shells to be very expensive and take a chunk of PPE to reload.

Also you will need to work to find a conversion cost that fits the games needs. While many have pointed out that the 'rules' in RUE are broken and easily abused....many forget that they are not hard and fast rules, but guidelines to help make the game easier, not official rules that codify easy ways to break the system....run with it, tinker with it and get some stats that work for the particular game.
And don't be afraid to change those stats retroactively (up or down!) if they prove problematic the first time. The goal is not to make 'the perfect weapon' the goal is to have fun.