Northern Gun 1

[Razzinold]

So I checked DriveThru RPG for the first time and all I could find of Northern Gun 1 & 2 were free previews, kind of gave me a not so great first impression of the service.
I mean sure the other titles were cheap to purchase but I already own most of the older stock.

Ok rant aside my question is, can anybody tell me anything about that cool looking ground vehicle pictured. It looks like a large APC (not the Badger, that's in part 2) where the front portion could maybe detach and drive off on it's own.

It has wheels up front and tracks on the back, a large turret is mounted on the roof the pilot cabin, another one offset on the 'trailer' portion, smaller turrets along it and a lone solider standing in front of an open door on the 'trailer' part just in front of the tracks.

Thanks in advance

[Shark_Force]

i think with NG 1 and 2 the megaversal insiders were promised exclusive PDFs. those specific titles may not be added any time soon. or they may, who knows.

[Razzinold]

i think with NG 1 and 2 the megaversal insiders were promised exclusive PDFs. those specific titles may not be added any time soon. or they may, who knows.

That is stupid if that's true.

You put every other title on PDF except those two???
Smart move on their part, I mean it's a good thing I can get the original Vampire book on PDF, a book so old every player should already own it, but not their new product.

It's pretty much impossible to find physical copies of their products anywhere near me, and most (if not all) won't/don't order them in and don't get me wrong I want the books but not enough to pay the conversion rate and shipping costs involved getting it straight from PB.

I don't normally complain about PB and how they run the business side of things on these forms but this time I had to.

[kaid]

So I checked DriveThru RPG for the first time and all I could find of Northern Gun 1 & 2 were free previews, kind of gave me a not so great first impression of the service.
I mean sure the other titles were cheap to purchase but I already own most of the older stock.

Ok rant aside my question is, can anybody tell me anything about that cool looking ground vehicle pictured. It looks like a large APC (not the Badger, that's in part 2) where the front portion could maybe detach and drive off on it's own.

It has wheels up front and tracks on the back, a large turret is mounted on the roof the pilot cabin, another one offset on the 'trailer' portion, smaller turrets along it and a lone solider standing in front of an open door on the 'trailer' part just in front of the tracks.

Thanks in advance

I think I know the one you are talking about that is found in NG2. NG1 only has robot vehicles NG2 has all the power armor and ground/land/air vehicles. Some pictures of vehicles in NG1 are statted out in NG2. I think the one you are thinking of may be the mammoth APC if I recall correctly.

[Tiree]

i think with NG 1 and 2 the megaversal insiders were promised exclusive PDFs. those specific titles may not be added any time soon. or they may, who knows.

That is stupid if that's true.

It is true. And as a backer of both of those Insiders, I would yell, scream and be extremely upset with Palladium for publishing them through DriveThruRPG or any other site that delivers PDF's. With that said, they also did it for Lemuria. So there are a total of 3 books in the Palladium's store that should and never be, sold as a PDF Option.

Now, I will state, those PDF's are amazing quality. And should be used as a basis for ANY PDF that PB Publishes. Unlike some of the ones I have seen, that just look like they are scans. No bookmarks, no hyperlinks, bare bones PDF's.

IF PB wants to publish those 3 books in PDF format, they will need to do so in a different manner. Maybe through a 'Revised' edition, and not just a 'Second Printing'. And they should offer a Free PDF of this revised edition to all their backers.

[Razzinold]

i think with NG 1 and 2 the megaversal insiders were promised exclusive PDFs. those specific titles may not be added any time soon. or they may, who knows.

That is stupid if that's true.

It is true. And as a backer of both of those Insiders, I would yell, scream and be extremely upset with Palladium for publishing them through DriveThruRPG or any other site that delivers PDF's. With that said, they also did it for Lemuria. So there are a total of 3 books in the Palladium's store that should and never be, sold as a PDF Option.

Now, I will state, those PDF's are amazing quality. And should be used as a basis for ANY PDF that PB Publishes. Unlike some of the ones I have seen, that just look like they are scans. No bookmarks, no hyperlinks, bare bones PDF's.

IF PB wants to publish those 3 books in PDF format, they will need to do so in a different manner. Maybe through a 'Revised' edition, and not just a 'Second Printing'. And they should offer a Free PDF of this revised edition to all their backers.

Then I stand by my statement of it being stupid.
I could see them waiting a year before selling it as a PDF, thus allowing the backers a 1 year exclusive access, but forever ? That's just lousy business sense IMO.

They should at a minimum offer it as a basic scan and I don't think backers should get free copies of any revised editions. You guys made your donations and were fairly compensated (with your original well done PDF), that shouldn't allow you a life time access to the PDF file for free.

By not offering it equals a loss in profits for them, once again IMO, and people will just download it as a torrent instead. Not myself mind you, I've never trusted those torrent sites and I never will.

I guess my collection will be forever short those two books, I say two because I have 0 interest in Lemuria, unless I'm lucky enough to randomly stumble across them in a store.

[palladiumjunkie]

It is true. And as a backer of both of those Insiders, I would yell, scream and be extremely upset with Palladium for publishing them through DriveThruRPG or any other site that delivers PDF's. With that said, they also did it for Lemuria. So there are a total of 3 books in the Palladium's store that should and never be, sold as a PDF Option.

I participated in Lemuria at the PDF only level because I wanted to encourage Palladium to catch up with the rest of the gaming industry when it came to the digital format. The idea that I've got some super special exclusive PDF that Palladium should never, ever, sell to anyone else has never even crossed my mind. Also, they never said it was exclusive... just that it wouldn't be for sale anywhere else "anytime soon".

I'll try to find a quote, but that was over 4 years ago... ah.. here we are...

ONLY INSIDERS have the opportunity to get the PDF of this book. It is not being made available as a PDF by any other means, nor elsewhere, anytime soon.

EDIT: That quote was from Lemuria's Insider, so I suppose it is possible that NG 1 and 2 had a different statement... though, with Palladium's love of the ol' cut and paste, I doubt it. LOL

-Chris

[Razzinold]

It is true. And as a backer of both of those Insiders, I would yell, scream and be extremely upset with Palladium for publishing them through DriveThruRPG or any other site that delivers PDF's. With that said, they also did it for Lemuria. So there are a total of 3 books in the Palladium's store that should and never be, sold as a PDF Option.

I participated in Lemuria at the PDF only level because I wanted to encourage Palladium to catch up with the rest of the gaming industry when it came to the digital format. The idea that I've got some super special exclusive PDF that Palladium should never, ever, sell to anyone else has never even crossed my mind. Also, they never said it was exclusive... just that it wouldn't be for sale anywhere else "anytime soon".

I'll try to find a quote, but that was over 4 years ago... ah.. here we are...

ONLY INSIDERS have the opportunity to get the PDF of this book. It is not being made available as a PDF by any other means, nor elsewhere, anytime soon.

EDIT: That quote was from Lemuria's Insider, so I suppose it is possible that NG 1 and 2 had a different statement... though, with Palladium's love of the ol' cut and paste, I doubt it. LOL

-Chris

Well that means there's hope for me yet! lol

Heck Sony and Microsoft give people exclusive DLC content a month before the other, not exclusive.
Yes I know there are some exclusive console titles or something like PS4 got Jason Vorhees for MK10 and Xbox got Freddy but I'm ok with that, each person got something.

The backers got some slick looking PDF so give me a basic scan, I'm ok with that.

I can see offering an incentive to get people to back you, it gives you a sudden infusion of liquid capital, but at the cost of long term revenues seems like an odd decision.
I guess I will bide my time and hope it comes out in PDF form or better yet find a print copy (which I prefer anyway but the PDF is better than nothing, lol)

[ffranceschi]

As a Benefactor and Ultimate Benefactor of the three "exclusive pdf titles", I really encourage Palladium to publish them in DriveThruRPG. I didn't crowdfund the projects because I was going to get an exclusive PDF but to help PB publish amazing material. I want Palladium to flourish as the best RPG company ever...but I respect the others opinions about not publish them.

[Razzinold]

As a Benefactor and Ultimate Benefactor of the three "exclusive pdf titles", I really encourage Palladium to publish them in DriveThruRPG. I didn't crowdfund the projects because I was going to get an exclusive PDF but to help PB publish amazing material. I want Palladium to flourish as the best RPG company ever...but I respect the others opinions about not publish them.

There you go, there's no way we can argue with the head of Northern Gun when he gives his blessing


Seriously though, I can, and on the same time can't, see why people would be mad about it not being exclusive. I can see why, because they were hoping for something exclusive, but at the same time I can't because it was never stated that it was going to be exclusive.
It was simply listed as 'any time soon'.

I didn't want to get any backers riled up about it, I just figured the fans (and PB) would be happy with some more money thrown their way, which is why I raised my frustrations about it in the first place.

I mean I can sympathize, I was pissed right off when I got cheated out of my Gold Edition of Tom Clancy's The Division. I lost out on exclusive items but do to a shortage in product, even though I preordered the game and had it fully paid for before launch, I was downgraded to the regular version.

They finally made some changes to the seasons pass and we go some of the items but I wanted that case to say Gold Edition for two reasons 1)from a collector standpoint and 2) it matches my other Tom Clancy game The Siege. So while I did get some of what was promised I didn't get the whole thing so I can see were Tiree (and I'm sure others) would be mad if/when they release it as PDF.

I know it seems like I'm flip flopping back and forth on this but I'm not. I firmly believe that they should release them as PDF, but I still don't like to see fans feel like they're being cheated in any way.

[Tiree]

As a Benefactor and Ultimate Benefactor of the three "exclusive pdf titles", I really encourage Palladium to publish them in DriveThruRPG. I didn't crowdfund the projects because I was going to get an exclusive PDF but to help PB publish amazing material. I want Palladium to flourish as the best RPG company ever...but I respect the others opinions about not publish them.

There you go, there's no way we can argue with the head of Northern Gun when he gives his blessing


Seriously though, I can, and on the same time can't, see why people would be mad about it not being exclusive. I can see why, because they were hoping for something exclusive, but at the same time I can't because it was never stated that it was going to be exclusive.
It was simply listed as 'any time soon'.

I didn't want to get any backers riled up about it, I just figured the fans (and PB) would be happy with some more money thrown their way, which is why I raised my frustrations about it in the first place.

I mean I can sympathize, I was pissed right off when I got cheated out of my Gold Edition of Tom Clancy's The Division. I lost out on exclusive items but do to a shortage in product, even though I preordered the game and had it fully paid for before launch, I was downgraded to the regular version.

They finally made some changes to the seasons pass and we go some of the items but I wanted that case to say Gold Edition for two reasons 1)from a collector standpoint and 2) it matches my other Tom Clancy game The Siege. So while I did get some of what was promised I didn't get the whole thing so I can see were Tiree (and I'm sure others) would be mad if/when they release it as PDF.

I know it seems like I'm flip flopping back and forth on this but I'm not. I firmly believe that they should release them as PDF, but I still don't like to see fans feel like they're being cheated in any way.

As I said, I wouldn't have a problem if they 'Re-Released' it as a Revised Edition. In fact, I think they should, correct spelling mistakes. Maybe fix some of the backers names that should have been listed correctly, etc... Ad in maybe 20 pages of content, and then republish.

I do believe they should offer the PDF to the Insiders for Free. If you utilize DTRPG you get any revisions on the same product for free. In this case it would be the same.

I also supported NG for the sake of telling PB to make PDF's. But the way they worded this. And they way they have operated. And they way they outright bit the hand that fed them about PDF's. I'm sticking to my guns about these 3 books being exclusive. They can circumvent it... and I have given them how, and how to do it right IMO.

[Razzinold]

As a Benefactor and Ultimate Benefactor of the three "exclusive pdf titles", I really encourage Palladium to publish them in DriveThruRPG. I didn't crowdfund the projects because I was going to get an exclusive PDF but to help PB publish amazing material. I want Palladium to flourish as the best RPG company ever...but I respect the others opinions about not publish them.

There you go, there's no way we can argue with the head of Northern Gun when he gives his blessing


Seriously though, I can, and on the same time can't, see why people would be mad about it not being exclusive. I can see why, because they were hoping for something exclusive, but at the same time I can't because it was never stated that it was going to be exclusive.
It was simply listed as 'any time soon'.

I didn't want to get any backers riled up about it, I just figured the fans (and PB) would be happy with some more money thrown their way, which is why I raised my frustrations about it in the first place.

I mean I can sympathize, I was pissed right off when I got cheated out of my Gold Edition of Tom Clancy's The Division. I lost out on exclusive items but do to a shortage in product, even though I preordered the game and had it fully paid for before launch, I was downgraded to the regular version.

They finally made some changes to the seasons pass and we go some of the items but I wanted that case to say Gold Edition for two reasons 1)from a collector standpoint and 2) it matches my other Tom Clancy game The Siege. So while I did get some of what was promised I didn't get the whole thing so I can see were Tiree (and I'm sure others) would be mad if/when they release it as PDF.

I know it seems like I'm flip flopping back and forth on this but I'm not. I firmly believe that they should release them as PDF, but I still don't like to see fans feel like they're being cheated in any way.

As I said, I wouldn't have a problem if they 'Re-Released' it as a Revised Edition. In fact, I think they should, correct spelling mistakes. Maybe fix some of the backers names that should have been listed correctly, etc... Ad in maybe 20 pages of content, and then republish.

I do believe they should offer the PDF to the Insiders for Free. If you utilize DTRPG you get any revisions on the same product for free. In this case it would be the same.

I also supported NG for the sake of telling PB to make PDF's. But the way they worded this. And they way they have operated. And they way they outright bit the hand that fed them about PDF's. I'm sticking to my guns about these 3 books being exclusive. They can circumvent it... and I have given them how, and how to do it right IMO.

I agree with you on fixing people's names and correcting spelling errors in general, adding more content would just be a nice bonus.

That would have been my first time using DTRPG so I wasn't aware they gave out free revised editions to purchasers, so I retract that part of my original statement.

Once again, while I do so your beef with it (whether it's viewed as sneaky business practices or not) they did leave themselves a neat little back door to choose if and when they feel like publishing those PDFs so my stance remains the same on that.

[Ed]

Does anyone know the markup DTRPG charges to sell on their site? How much margin is PB passing up on?

[Shawn Merrow]

Selling on DriveThruRPG.com.

[Razzinold]

On the topic of Northern Gun I read about a vehicle called Big Bertha in Rifts Black Market. Is that vehicle in one of those two books or is it listed somewhere else ?

I have someone looking to play a P.A. Pilot and so far I've shown them RUE, New West, Triax 1 & 2.
They don't want to play a G.B. (or any variant) and they're not sure they want the kind of heat that a stolen C.S. suit will bring them. Can anyone point me in the direction of more suits ?

I only played a pilot once way back in the day when I used an X-535 from Triax (back when that book was brand new).

[Ed]

Selling on DriveThruRPG.com.

Interesting. Just about exactly what Amazon would charge for a $9.99 ebook or double the margin for a $24.99 ebook. I wonder what the printing and storage costs are to justify the higher prices?

[sHaka]

I was a "Cyber-insider" for NG1 and 2 - I put money in partly because I wanted the books made, but also because I was then listed in the credits and named as an NG weapons designer in the gun section, which is cool

I really don't care if PB start selling the PDF to others - actually, I think they should! Let everyone one get hold of these two awesome books in an accessible format.

(New purchasers won't get name checked like the insiders did, so I still get my "reward" )

[Razzinold]

I was a "Cyber-insider" for NG1 and 2 - I put money in partly because I wanted the books made, but also because I was then listed in the credits and named as an NG weapons designer in the gun section, which is cool

I really don't care if PB start selling the PDF to others - actually, I think they should! Let everyone one get hold of these two awesome books in an accessible format.

(New purchasers won't get name checked like the insiders did, so I still get my "reward" )

I like the way you think, although something tells me I might be just a tiny bit biased in my opinion considering I'm the one that started the thread.

[Premier]

On the topic of Northern Gun I read about a vehicle called Big Bertha in Rifts Black Market. Is that vehicle in one of those two books or is it listed somewhere else ?

I have someone looking to play a P.A. Pilot and so far I've shown them RUE, New West, Triax 1 & 2.
They don't want to play a G.B. (or any variant) and they're not sure they want the kind of heat that a stolen C.S. suit will bring them. Can anyone point me in the direction of more suits ?

I only played a pilot once way back in the day when I used an X-535 from Triax (back when that book was brand new).

Hey Razzinold,

You can have your Player review my online gallery and select Rifts Artwork for the power armors that I did for Northern Gun 2, and it might help you/them decide if there are available options within NG2 that the Player would be interested in that would validate the purchase or not. There is a wide array/ They may not be the biggest or the baddest, but they are versatile and reliable PA units.

Cheers,
Chuck

[Zamion138]

As a backer, I dont see your mentality as being a good one.
No one can have this pdf by paying for it......If you cant find a free pdf of NG1 and NG2 online you suck at internet. Why not get the company that made these pdfs at keast some of the peoples money. You cant even argue they could legally get it. Its not an option.

Let the pdf people have their book. Print is far better anyhow.

[Razzinold]

As a backer, I dont see your mentality as being a good one.
No one can have this pdf by paying for it......If you cant find a free pdf of NG1 and NG2 online you suck at internet. Why not get the company that made these pdfs at keast some of the peoples money. You cant even argue they could legally get it. Its not an option.

Let the pdf people have their book. Print is far better anyhow.

Not exactly sure who this comment is directed at but just in case it's at me...

I don't want a free copy of the PDF, I wanted to purchase it from Palladium. I'n quite sure I could find a torrent for their entire collection if I tried, but I haven't because I'm not a huge fan of theft.

If this comment wasn't directed at me then....well my response is still valid. I don't want stolen copies of the PDF and while I do prefer printed books nobody in my area sells PB and IMO it's not worth the extra cost with conversion and shipping cost to order from them direct. That is why I wanted the PDF.

[Razzinold]

On the topic of Northern Gun I read about a vehicle called Big Bertha in Rifts Black Market. Is that vehicle in one of those two books or is it listed somewhere else ?

I have someone looking to play a P.A. Pilot and so far I've shown them RUE, New West, Triax 1 & 2.
They don't want to play a G.B. (or any variant) and they're not sure they want the kind of heat that a stolen C.S. suit will bring them. Can anyone point me in the direction of more suits ?

I only played a pilot once way back in the day when I used an X-535 from Triax (back when that book was brand new).

Hey Razzinold,

You can have your Player review my online gallery and select Rifts Artwork for the power armors that I did for Northern Gun 2, and it might help you/them decide if there are available options within NG2 that the Player would be interested in that would validate the purchase or not. There is a wide array/ They may not be the biggest or the baddest, but they are versatile and reliable PA units.

Cheers,
Chuck

Thanks Chuck, you're awesome

[Zamion138]

As a backer, I dont see your mentality as being a good one.
No one can have this pdf by paying for it......If you cant find a free pdf of NG1 and NG2 online you suck at internet. Why not get the company that made these pdfs at keast some of the peoples money. You cant even argue they could legally get it. Its not an option.

Let the pdf people have their book. Print is far better anyhow.

Not exactly sure who this comment is directed at but just in case it's at me...

I don't want a free copy of the PDF, I wanted to purchase it from Palladium. I'n quite sure I could find a torrent for their entire collection if I tried, but I haven't because I'm not a huge fan of theft.

If this comment wasn't directed at me then....well my response is still valid. I don't want stolen copies of the PDF and while I do prefer printed books nobody in my area sells PB and IMO it's not worth the extra cost with conversion and shipping cost to order from them direct. That is why I wanted the PDF.

Sorry should have quoted from above, no not toward you, it was toward a comment made by Tiree above.
He had said something to the effect these should be backer only pdf's forever

[Tiree]

Sorry should have quoted from above, no not toward you, it was toward a comment made by Tiree above.
He had said something to the effect these should be backer only pdf's forever

I stand by my words. Palladium made it a huge selling point that they would NEVER have these books as PDF's... by stating that they would ONLY be available, etc... Their words for exclusivity. It is why they had all those different covers of a book as well... limited editions, etc...

By having them sell these books as PDF's, they cheapen my book, and reduce their 'Exclusivity'

WITH THAT SAID - I did provide an out...

IF PB wants to publish those 3 books in PDF format, they will need to do so in a different manner. Maybe through a 'Revised' edition, and not just a 'Second Printing'. And they should offer a Free PDF of this revised edition to all their backers.

Palladium has options, and the option is to add some material, and sell it for some additional cash. They would get new folks who want the PDF, get the PDF. Old folks who bought the books, will snatch them up again... because their collectors (or want the latest information). And by providing the PDF copy to the original backers, they allow some good ole' honest customer satisfaction (something they are kind of lacking at the moment due to RRT)

If you are unhappy with what I said, look at the original reasons why they did the kickstarter. Look at the language for the cyber-insider:

ONLY INSIDERS have the opportunity to get the PDF of this book. It is not being made available as a PDF by any other means, nor elsewhere, anytime soon. This is the only way to get a PDF of this new release from Palladium Books, and the offer is only available for a limited period of time as part of the Megaverse® Insider fund-raising offer. After that point, the PDF is no longer available.

Note: This is one of the things that makes an “Insider” – you have the opportunity to get stuff not available to the average gamer, during a limited window of time while we are raising funds.

I'm sticking to my guns on this one!

[Zamion138]

Sorry should have quoted from above, no not toward you, it was toward a comment made by Tiree above.
He had said something to the effect these should be backer only pdf's forever

I stand by my words. Palladium made it a huge selling point that they would NEVER have these books as PDF's... by stating that they would ONLY be available, etc... Their words for exclusivity. It is why they had all those different covers of a book as well... limited editions, etc...

By having them sell these books as PDF's, they cheapen my book, and reduce their 'Exclusivity'

WITH THAT SAID - I did provide an out...

IF PB wants to publish those 3 books in PDF format, they will need to do so in a different manner. Maybe through a 'Revised' edition, and not just a 'Second Printing'. And they should offer a Free PDF of this revised edition to all their backers.

Palladium has options, and the option is to add some material, and sell it for some additional cash. They would get new folks who want the PDF, get the PDF. Old folks who bought the books, will snatch them up again... because their collectors (or want the latest information). And by providing the PDF copy to the original backers, they allow some good ole' honest customer satisfaction (something they are kind of lacking at the moment due to RRT)

If you are unhappy with what I said, look at the original reasons why they did the kickstarter. Look at the language for the cyber-insider:

ONLY INSIDERS have the opportunity to get the PDF of this book. It is not being made available as a PDF by any other means, nor elsewhere, anytime soon. This is the only way to get a PDF of this new release from Palladium Books, and the offer is only available for a limited period of time as part of the Megaverse® Insider fund-raising offer. After that point, the PDF is no longer available.

Note: This is one of the things that makes an “Insider” – you have the opportunity to get stuff not available to the average gamer, during a limited window of time while we are raising funds.

I'm sticking to my guns on this one!

You can stick to em all you want its silly, you have an exclusive data file, plus all the cut and paste copies on disks and thumb drives and emails.
Honestly its not nearly the same as an exclusive book or getting your name in the two books. All its doing at this point is creating piracy. Alot of it too, if there is no legal way to do something people wont do the legal way......
If anything you should argue that you get a free copy of any future revised pdf's. All your argument does is make it harder for a new player, or a savage rifts cross over player, to have a copy of the book. But your right the idea of your self importance and perceived VIP status is more valid.

Special edition could be a new cover, woukd you be happy then?

[Prysus]

Look at the language for the cyber-insider:

ONLY INSIDERS have the opportunity to get the PDF of this book. It is not being made available as a PDF by any other means, nor elsewhere, anytime soon. This is the only way to get a PDF of this new release from Palladium Books, and the offer is only available for a limited period of time as part of the Megaverse® Insider fund-raising offer. After that point, the PDF is no longer available.

Note: This is one of the things that makes an “Insider” – you have the opportunity to get stuff not available to the average gamer, during a limited window of time while we are raising funds.

Greetings and Salutations. So just a few things.

1: Looking at the language of the cyber-insider (per the quote and link posted by Tiree), Palladium agreed not to offer the PDF "anytime soon." Now, what "anytime soon" means can be left to debate. Tiree is welcome to his belief that "anytime soon" means "never, ever again in the existence of the entire human race" while the rest of us are welcome to disagree with his interpretation. Of course, they also wrote (in that same PDF he provided) ...

● ALL of these items are only available during the short TWO and a HALF WEEKS that we are offering them. Most will NEVER BE OFFERED AGAIN for that product. THIS IS YOUR ONLY CHANCE TO GET THEM.

● Why limited availability? Because I want to make these “opportunities” truly special, rare, valuable and AVAILABLE ONLY TO YOU. That includes super-limited and rare, one-time-only collector editions and opportunities for you – our “Insiders.”

Ah, but most will never be offered again (none anytime soon). They are exclusive to Megaverse® Insiders

Here, Palladium tells us that MOST will never be offered again. They do not say that NONE of those will be offered again. They then go on to discuss the limited availability applying to "super-limited and rare, one-time-only collector editions." This actually applies to the foil hardcover (NOT the PDF, as the offer refers to the foil hardcover edition as such often). For the foil hardcover, they tell us it will never be offered again. For others (and the PDF specifically), it tells us "anytime soon." There's a difference.

Note: The one of a kind artwork offered at higher levels would probably also fall into the collector item, though not called out as such. Those are literally one of a kind items.

2: The insider does state that this is for a "limited period of time." Of course, McDonald's lists their McRib for a limited time only, and then next year they offer it again ... still for a limited time only. The same is true for their Shamrock Shake. I can't think of any sensible person who decries McDonald's that this will somehow "cheapen" the McRib they ate a year ago (as if somehow they can't resell it for as much as they would have before ... because that would be weird, or as if the quality of the McRib a year ago is no longer up to the standards it was when you ate it a year ago). Note: I haven't eaten at McDonald's in a very long time. One (or both) of these items could've found their way onto a more permanent menu or removed forever in the last 20 years or so.

3: I can't speak for everyone involved (but I did see quite a few comments during the various Megaversal Insiders), main motivations seemed to be:

3a: They wanted the PDF, and this seemed the only way to get it (currently this still holds true years later, but even if it's offered tomorrow this wouldn't change that you had access to them years before anyone else).
3b: They wanted to encourage Palladium the value of offering PDF (Palladium is now releasing other PDF, maybe it worked? Saying they shouldn't offer PDF now would be counter-intuitive).
3c: Massive Palladium fans who will pretty much buy anything Palladium offers (if they can afford it).

For the above buyers, a new PDF won't be a problem. Though I will add that if Palladium continues to offer their PDF for about half of cover price, that means new purchasers will be able to buy it for CHEAPER than the Megaversal Insiders. While I wouldn't necessarily freak out over this, it would very much rub me the wrong way. On these three PDF, I think it would do well for Palladium to charge full cover price (though same price as Megaversal Insiders or somewhere in between is also acceptable). I know that kind of sucks for those who want the PDF now, but I think it could help alleviate tensions (for some).

I'll state that I was not a Cyber-Insider, but I do have the PDF because I pledged at a higher level. Though if I couldn't have afforded the other stuff, I'd have still gone with the Cyber-Insider for the reasons of 3b (encouraging Palladium to actually produce more PDF, even though I, as an individual, don't use them much). Anyways, that's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys for now.[/justify]

[Tiree]

Special edition could be a new cover, would you be happy then?

Not quite - but close.

Palladium could easily add in 5-20 or so pages of extra material. Slap it at the back of the book and call it good - AND that would be enough for me. Not to mention - fixing the mistakes they made in the first printing (such as insider names add/removing and or use the preferred name of the insider... Which I will say my preferred name was not used in either book. Or even some grammatical mistakes and/or correction of stats.)

They want the book out as PDF - they need to offer something to enhance it. Otherwise, they have broken their promise to their consumers.

And yes, I bought the PDF so I could have a legal copy. I bought the PDF to show there was a demand for them. I bought the PDF to say "Kev and Crew, produce more PDF's in higher quality than some kid doing a quick scan and giving it away. Make me want to re-buy your products, because I have the cash to do it!"

But guess what! There is a demand for legally purchased PDF's. But Kev and Crew don't want to offer higher quality PDF's. I bought the Megaverse in Flames and it was utter crap PDF. I was ashamed of the quality, and expecting so much more based on what was done with Northern Gun 1 and 2.

[Tiree]

● ALL of these items are only available during the short TWO and a HALF WEEKS that we are offering them. Most will NEVER BE OFFERED AGAIN for that product. THIS IS YOUR ONLY CHANCE TO GET THEM.

● Why limited availability? Because I want to make these “opportunities” truly special, rare, valuable and AVAILABLE ONLY TO YOU. That includes super-limited and rare, one-time-only collector editions and opportunities for you – our “Insiders.”

Ah, but most will never be offered again (none anytime soon). They are exclusive to Megaverse® Insiders

Here, Palladium tells us that MOST will never be offered again. They do not say that NONE of those will be offered again. They then go on to discuss the limited availability applying to "super-limited and rare, one-time-only collector editions." This actually applies to the foil hardcover (NOT the PDF, as the offer refers to the foil hardcover edition as such often). For the foil hardcover, they tell us it will never be offered again. For others (and the PDF specifically), it tells us "anytime soon." There's a difference.

This is a really interesting point on "anytime soon"

What I have seen in the past, and is truly understandable: Kevin is a hoarder. Of these insiders, he holds on to a few (hundred?), and then sells them to the public when he finds them again in the warehouse. Now it is quite possible the reason why he has them, is that they are dinged/damaged and he couldn't send them out in the initial run. Of these, Kev usually sells them on Ebay or even at a much higher cost.

With that an interesting question would be: Would it be okay to charge 2 or 3 times what the Cyber-Insider paid for a PDF copy. Would anyone want to pay 100 dollars for a PDF copy of NG1 or 2 in order to keep it's exclusivity? And would the Insiders be upset or okay with it.

I am not sure how I feel at that thought.

[Prysus]

What I have seen in the past, and is truly understandable: Kevin is a hoarder. Of these insiders, he holds on to a few (hundred?), and then sells them to the public when he finds them again in the warehouse.

Greetings and Salutations. Per the PDF of the Insider you provided, we have this quote:

Color Hardcover with no foil (and will be called simply "hardcover" from now on):

Collector’s Item/Super-Limited Edition:
What makes this hardcover edition truly special is that we print only what you order (plus a few dozen extra for staff and promotion). That means if we get 151 orders (like we did with the Lemuria offer), we only print 151 copies of this book (+48 additional for Palladium staff, friends, resale and special promotions). If the number is 135 we print 135 (plus a four dozen extra). It’s hard to get much more LIMITED and special than this.

Hardcover with Foil (and will be simply called "foil" from now on):

Second, we print only what you order (plus two dozen extra for staff and promotions). That means if we get 70 orders, we only print 70 copies of this book +24 for Palladium staff, friends, resale and special promotions. If the number is 35 we print 35 (+24 extra).

So the numbers Palladium gave us are "48" (for regular hardcovers) and "24" for the limited edition foil covers. They also state this is for Palladium staff (only 6 staffers I think at the time), friends (untold numbers), and "resale." So, if we discount staff, we have as many as 38 hardcovers and 18 foils Palladium could sell on eBay, etc. (probably less, but hard to put a number on "friends").

Now it is quite possible the reason why he has them, is that they are dinged/damaged and he couldn't send them out in the initial run. Of these, Kev usually sells them on Ebay or even at a much higher cost.

More than likely these are just the extras they ordered for this purpose (thought some may be dinged/damaged if they wanted to ensure that Insiders received flawless copies). As for "at a much higher cost" that will depend on your definition. Judging by the PDF you provided (and the numbers look fairly accurate for both Lemuria and the NG Insiders) we have:

PDF: $15
Hardcover: $50
Foil: $75

Looking at his current eBay store we have:

Lemuria (hardcover): $60 (20% increase)
Lemuria (foil): $140 (just under an 87% increase)
NG1 (hardcover): $70 (40% increase)
NG1 (foil): $140 (just under an 87% increase)
NG2 (hardcover): $45 (below sale value, but with listed scraps/scuffs)
NG2 (foil): $120 (60% increase)

Current listed retail value (softcover, from the PB store):

Lemuria: $24.95
NG1: $24.95
NG2: $26.95

With that an interesting question would be: Would it be okay to charge 2 or 3 times what the Cyber-Insider paid for a PDF copy. Would anyone want to pay 100 dollars for a PDF copy of NG1 or 2 in order to keep it's exclusivity? And would the Insiders be upset or okay with it.

I am not sure how I feel at that thought.

Now, we can see the markup above for the limited edition books that Palladium told us they wouldn't print again (the PDF are not on that list). With these limited editions, we're seeing between a 20% to a 87% increase (not factoring the damaged book which is a decrease in value). At an 87% increase (which would be excessive in my opinion), the value would place the PDF at $28 (approximately). This is slightly above cover price. At a 60% increase the value becomes $24 (just under cover price). At a 40% increase the value becomes $21, and at only a 20% increase the value is at $18.

Now looking at the figures, I'd personally recommend Palladium using the 20% figure. That places it below cover value while still higher than what the Insiders paid for it (even though they never promised they wouldn't release the PDF later down the line). Also, while higher than their current PDF prices, to my understanding (as I hear, though I can't confirm myself) the quality is higher it could be worth the added price to many. While I'm sure some wouldn't be happy with the higher price, I think it's a good compromise and would still see plenty of sales.

That's the math of the situation. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Zamion138]

" They want the book out as PDF - they need to offer something to enhance it. Otherwise, they have broken their promise to their consumers. "

They said any time soon, 2 years of sitting on a pdf book, that could be making an aging company revenues vs. Waiting what 5 years? What is your anytime soon. If it was a video game, and i said preorder and get the ak74 and m14 as early release long before anyone else......... itwould likely be 2 months at best, this 8s a book, so 12x that exception of early is pretty good in my eyes.

The consumers that worry their copy of a mass printed soft copy book will be devalued if hard covers come back out I can see. There is no resell for the pdf, transfer it to me for 20 bucks and if i sell to some one for 25 dollars im keeping my copy.

[Forar]

I'm gonna be frank here.

There's a stickied thread about how difficult it is to find stores that sell PB stuff. Why on Earth would anyone who is a fan of PB's works want to cut them out of a revenue stream?

If I'm not mistaken, NG-1 came out in late 2013, meaning that the 'exclusivity period' is approaching 3 years. That seems like a pretty reasonable period of time to have a perk before releasing it 'into the wild' at a cost.

And to be even more real here for a second; one of the top auto-complete searches on Google is "rifts northern gun 1 pdf"

Like it or not, people ARE getting that 'super exclusive' thing, and not just that, it's for free (at least in some cases).

Why not embrace PB getting money from consumers who want to buy their stuff rather than feeling slighted for only having almost a third of a decade of that exclusivity? (based on the assumption that it'll be months at the minimum before it actually showed up on DTRPG).

As someone who has backed a lot of Kickstarters, exclusives being things like getting a name in a book, or a unique model, or a special hardcover edition, all make sense to me. "Never ever released as a pdf, ignoring that people will distribute that file happily whether we like it or not, so basically just refusing to let honest consumers buy our thing" is not a solid business strategy.

[TagsPB]

Sorry but as a Benifactor on NG1 and Ultimate Benifactor on NG2 my vote goes to releasing the PDF's.

Unless other top tier Insiders vote otherwise....these should become available one their spot comes up (soon).

I didn't take part in this just for the pdf's I did it to get good stuff out to everyone.
Those of us who went beyond just investing in the PDF got other perks. If you didn't that was your choice.

And I have said this to Kevin and Company directly.

there are some who want the pdfs for various reasons and can no longer get them legally.....why not?
If Insiders are upset....ask Kevin to up the price for those buying these books now...then you got it cheaper and sooner, but stop trying to say he CAN NOT sell them.

[wilycoyote]

I am sorry but I can see no reason why these books could not now be released to the general public as PDF's.

Given that nearly three years have elapsed, it is reasonable to allow that the promise of "anytime soon" has been kept. Unlike many of PB's other promises, I would add. As a backer, you funded the project and received the rewards, so job done ?

If the books are not being reprinted in any form, how else will PB generate income for their work?

[Zamion138]

They are being printed in paper back standard format.
Just not the hard cover.
Pdf should really be out though, for international gamers especially so much cheaper for them, also if you want to get super environmental "its better for the planet too." Though i eill always perfer the dead tree copies

[mercedogre]

So I checked DriveThru RPG for the first time and all I could find of Northern Gun 1 & 2 were free previews, kind of gave me a not so great first impression of the service.
I mean sure the other titles were cheap to purchase but I already own most of the older stock.

Ok rant aside my question is, can anybody tell me anything about that cool looking ground vehicle pictured. It looks like a large APC (not the Badger, that's in part 2) where the front portion could maybe detach and drive off on it's own.

It has wheels up front and tracks on the back, a large turret is mounted on the roof the pilot cabin, another one offset on the 'trailer' portion, smaller turrets along it and a lone solider standing in front of an open door on the 'trailer' part just in front of the tracks.

Thanks in advance

NG Centipede Robot Transport and Recovery Vehicle, mobile PA/robot repair shop, it does seperate

[Razzinold]

So I checked DriveThru RPG for the first time and all I could find of Northern Gun 1 & 2 were free previews, kind of gave me a not so great first impression of the service.
I mean sure the other titles were cheap to purchase but I already own most of the older stock.

Ok rant aside my question is, can anybody tell me anything about that cool looking ground vehicle pictured. It looks like a large APC (not the Badger, that's in part 2) where the front portion could maybe detach and drive off on it's own.

It has wheels up front and tracks on the back, a large turret is mounted on the roof the pilot cabin, another one offset on the 'trailer' portion, smaller turrets along it and a lone solider standing in front of an open door on the 'trailer' part just in front of the tracks.

Thanks in advance

NG Centipede Robot Transport and Recovery Vehicle, mobile PA/robot repair shop, it does seperate

Thanks for the info!

[Steve Dubya]

I don't know if it differs in any way from what was previously released, but Lemuria is now widely available.

I think that it's probably just a matter of time for the NG stuff.

[palladiumjunkie]

I don't know if it differs in any way from what was previously released, but Lemuria is now widely available.

I think that it's probably just a matter of time for the NG stuff.

Yep. I logged on to post exactly this.

-Chris

[Razzinold]

Once again I am trying to track down legal copies of Northern Gun 1 & 2 on pdf. Unless I'm doing something wrong on Drivethru RPG I see they are still not available. I just priced it out and to buy the books from the Palladium store it would be nearly $100 American, so even higher once converted, to buy and ship said product to me. Not only is that way more than I'm willing to pay, I also worry about paying all that and having the goods arrive damaged.

I am starting up a group in the next couple of weeks and would really like these books, here's hoping I get an early Christmas miracle and actually find a store carrying the books, unlike last year when I found nobody carrying or willing to order.

[Shark_Force]

and i'm still pretty certain these were made available to people who kickstarted-by-another-name the books as an exclusive thing.

[Razzinold]

I am aware of that, but I thought I'd check since the post said "any time
soon"
Like I said I have my fingers crossed I find a copy in a local store.

[Myrrhibis]

I am aware of that, but I thought I'd check since the post said "any time
soon"
Like I said I have my fingers crossed I find a copy in a local store.

Would taking advantage of the Xmas Grab Bag cut down some of the cost for you?

If you put it as "am starting a group, and since I can't get electronically" - you may be able to get both in the same package.

Even without worry regarding shipping, I just don't have the room to get every book PB is putting out in paper format. I just got rid of 28 years worth of PB books (well, more like 24, since the first few books = obviously worn even if holding up well) and an easy $2k+, to the local 2nd-hand store for nickels. Because I just don't have the room for the books I'm not using allll the time.

And honestly, I don't really have the room for the ones I DO use allll the time. But until last month they (BoM & GMG) & this month (Phase World) weren't even available in a legal PDF.

I'm so glad I jumped on the Megaversal Insider chance for NG 1 & 2 and opted for digi-copy - but the delay for both (especially NG2) along with the ongoing production issues, makes me cautious about doing anything similar again.

[Razzinold]

I am aware of that, but I thought I'd check since the post said "any time
soon"
Like I said I have my fingers crossed I find a copy in a local store.

Would taking advantage of the Xmas Grab Bag cut down some of the cost for you?

If you put it as "am starting a group, and since I can't get electronically" - you may be able to get both in the same package.

Even without worry regarding shipping, I just don't have the room to get every book PB is putting out in paper format. I just got rid of 28 years worth of PB books (well, more like 24, since the first few books = obviously worn even if holding up well) and an easy $2k+, to the local 2nd-hand store for nickels. Because I just don't have the room for the books I'm not using allll the time.

And honestly, I don't really have the room for the ones I DO use allll the time. But until last month they (BoM & GMG) & this month (Phase World) weren't even available in a legal PDF.

I'm so glad I jumped on the Megaversal Insider chance for NG 1 & 2 and opted for digi-copy - but the delay for both (especially NG2) along with the ongoing production issues, makes me cautious about doing anything similar again.

To be honest I never even thought of buying the Christmas bundle and asking for both books. I see they have extended the offer so maybe I will price out the cost of shipping it to Canada.

[kennethk]

I am aware of that, but I thought I'd check since the post said "any time
soon"
Like I said I have my fingers crossed I find a copy in a local store.

Would taking advantage of the Xmas Grab Bag cut down some of the cost for you?

If you put it as "am starting a group, and since I can't get electronically" - you may be able to get both in the same package.

Even without worry regarding shipping, I just don't have the room to get every book PB is putting out in paper format. I just got rid of 28 years worth of PB books (well, more like 24, since the first few books = obviously worn even if holding up well) and an easy $2k+, to the local 2nd-hand store for nickels. Because I just don't have the room for the books I'm not using allll the time.

And honestly, I don't really have the room for the ones I DO use allll the time. But until last month they (BoM & GMG) & this month (Phase World) weren't even available in a legal PDF.

I'm so glad I jumped on the Megaversal Insider chance for NG 1 & 2 and opted for digi-copy - but the delay for both (especially NG2) along with the ongoing production issues, makes me cautious about doing anything similar again.

To be honest I never even thought of buying the Christmas bundle and asking for both books. I see they have extended the offer so maybe I will price out the cost of shipping it to Canada.

I am not in Canada so I cannot speak directly for shipping there, but I did check out shipping for what I got in the Christmas bundle shipping wise as compared to buying them all for the difference in shipping. I saved roughly 30% on shipping by using the Christmas bundle.

[jaymz]

Razzinold - if you haven't ordered one already don't. You'd be better off to go to World's Collide and have them just order them for you if they can.......I've bought a grab bag, once shipping and exchange rate is taken into account it is not worth it in my opinion.

[Razzinold]

Razzinold - if you haven't ordered one already don't. You'd be better off to go to World's Collide and have them just order them for you if they can.......I've bought a grab bag, once shipping and exchange rate is taken into account it is not worth it in my opinion.

I didn't order, funny enough I saw Tim last weekend and totally forgot to ask him if he could order me anything in. His store has changed so much since I've been there last. Didn't have any dice sets for sale, and he had all his Pathfinder and D&D books on sale.