Forums of the Megaverse®

In Rifts UE it states 9 that dragon hatchlings do 2d6 more damage than their SN PS dictates due to their claws (unless otherwise noted).

1. If a dragon were metamorphed into a clawed creature say a bird or cat would they still get the 2d6 bonus to the PS damage?

Chiang-Ku can metamorph into mist. The spell description says you "cannot communicate or cast spells as a mist".

2. I assume you can still use psionics as there is no mention of it. Is this true and if so could you use Telepathy to communicate?

Once activated tattoos last the duration or until canceled (a max of 6 at anytime).

3. If activated before becoming mist (or at higher level where you no longer need to touch tattoos to activate them) could you access the abilities of the tattoo since they do not require words?

4. If as a mist with the deathtouch tattoo active could you use your melee action to touch someone as the mist and if they fail the save vs magic take 1d6 to hp or 3d6 md?

5. While turned into mist how big are you and can you alter the size to be smaller?

6. If I were metamorphed into a Giraffe and then cast the spell Armor of Ithan would I be a plate armor wearing Giraffe?


Thank a lot for taking a look and even more if you share your opinions and factual data.

While I am here I might as well ask a couple more questions.

My group once we start playing will be in the PW setting I plan to fly a shuttle since they are "cheaper" and easier to maintain/replace. I wanted to maximize the internal area by creating Dimensional Envelopes long and short-term as needed.

7. Can Dimensional Envelopes have the doorway left open so clients can come and go as they please or cargo be retrieved without someone with knowledge of dimensions having to open them every time?

8. DB 12 Dimensional Outbreak has demon magic I saw evil wizards can learn it. Does this mean anyone who can purchase spell magic can learn demon magic freely?

9. Is there a double cost on demon magic like in necromancy? I didn't see one but thought the doubling might be a rule I missed somewhere.

10. Rifter 50 added official lunar magic. How would it work in space or on a moon?

11. Are there any rules on using total recall and speed reading to try and acquire new skills or improve already known skills?

12. Does Anti-magic cloud hurt or weaken creatures of magic or the supernatural?

13. As a temporal wizard could you cast D-Phase then cast teleport: superior and not have to worry about the instant death chance?

14. Can you use Remote Viewing or a Crystal Ball in conjunction with Retro-Viewing to see what people were doing in the past without being at their location?

1: the claws they are talking about are the ones it has while in dragon form.

2: They can communicate psionicly if they have the individual powers to do so. (based on other things that make the char "intangible" or otherwise near the same state, that say that they can communicate via telepathy.)

3: Weapon Tattoos: Does mist have hands?
3.1: If it was a power tattoo the effects would remain for the duration.

4: The power tattoo only does the damage listed in it, unless the target has a Achilles Heel that makes magic do more damage.

5: The area the char takes up is ultimately up to the GM. However, if the player was proactive in describing how his form is shaped. As to my preconceptions, the cloud of mist would be roughly 6 foot cubed (6x6x6).

6: depending on the intent of the caster or the variant it would look like a giraffe, or a giraffe that had a ghostly see threw something that could look like armor.

7 as per the canon spell ….maybe. The in the fan made spells there could be minor variants that let that be the norm.
It is not open or closed, the doorway is always there.

8: Based on the intro text they are just rare invocations. Much like how Temporal magic are rare invocation. Except that the reason they are not taught is that the requirements for casting the magic disgust most people, instead of active repression of the magic.

9: For variants of the spells to be magic that does not need the blood sacrifices (see NB:TtGD for variant creation rules.) I would require a double the PPE like the Necromancy specialty magic.

10: R 50 is the 'Zodiac Mage' and 'Star Magic'. Most of it would act just as it is described in the book. The question would be "how does being on a ship effect the spell strength of the spell? Will it be at Daytime strength or night time strength?" is the question.

If on a planetary body then when out of direct LoS of the system's primary it is "night". is my opinion.

If the magic is at full str. in interstellar space….the question would be how close can the ship get to the system primary before it is not at full str.

11: no there is no text covering this, as far as I can recall.

12: I think there is some text that says that. But I am unsure where that text is w/o researching the answer to the question.

13: Yes…..duration dependent.

14: The GM decides if this can be done for his or her game.

Answer to question 12 based solely on the description of the Anti-Magic Cloud spell is no. It does not weaken Creatures of Magic nor supernatural creatures. Unless one of the newer books changed that or if it is mentioned under specific creatures description (there are none that I know of currently that list said affectedness by AMC spell.)

Answering Question 11: Unless your GM has a house rule that allows you to learn skills between level advancements the answer is no. But If a GM has said house rule then its a possibility though learning a skill straight from a book other than a Lore Skill would be difficult and probably pose a penalty for when performing the skill in an actual situation.

<Edit>
For Demon Magic

Officially there is no increase to PPE to cast the spells other than the listed cost.
This appears to be one of the desired features of the art...that it is seductively easy to use, and even the 'two tiered' spells corrupt...as it leads to the "well I need to cast it NOW, I'll just use the sacrifice this one time...really"

This is why I when I run I allow anyone to cast it at the listed cost. its designed to be seductively easy...the cost is not in mechanics, or in PPE but in your morality after all..

Thank you all for the data and helpfulness.

The Necromancy spell Transfer Life Force states: "This spell enables the Necromancer's life essence to inhabit and animate skeletons, corpses, mummies, zombies, and even puppets, like a robot."

Does this mean robots and power armor, Source book 1 robots, droids/skelebots, computerized environmental body armor, automatons or vehicles?


"The possessed dead thing has all the mental and physical powers of the Necromancer, however magic spells and psionic powers cannot be used, Because the corpse has no PPE or ISP!"

Does this mean natural abilities are transferred to the temporary bodies?

Could spells still be used if you had an alternate source of PPE like a Fairy Battery?

Could a Necromancer (with a battery) use Union with the Dead on the temporary bodies?

I read the spell text in the book and the way I am understanding the words is that the words "like a robot." are descriptive words about how the dead body is piloted. Like you are walking about inside a throw away robot. Much like how in the Triax and Mutants in Orbit book have special MOM implants that let a person control a robot as a remote, but their perceptions are as if they 'are' the robot.

The last two questions are for individual GMs to decide for their own games.
I would not allow them if it was my game.

Would the spell Negate Magic destroy a Dimensional Pocket?

What would happen to the contents of the pocket?

Can the spell Attune Object to Owner work on D-Pockets so if detected by a creature with the ability or knowledge it would remain unusable?

With Hand to Hand: Dragon you get a bonus to spell strength would that bonus transfer to the save versus tattoo magic?

VIsgar wrote:The Necromancy spell Transfer Life Force states: "This spell enables the Necromancer's life essence to inhabit and animate skeletons, corpses, mummies, zombies, and even puppets, like a robot."

Does this mean robots and power armor, Source book 1 robots, droids/skelebots, computerized environmental body armor, automatons or vehicles?

A robot with out an active computer yes its a 'puppet', if it has a computer (even if it is turned off) it is not a puppet. Just like you can not inhabit a person, only a corpse you have to basically animate a robot 'corpse' (one with no control system). My opinion though

A suit of armor? No, its not a 'puppet'

Automaton? No, its already 'occupied'

Vehicle? No, its not a 'puppet'

VIsgar wrote:"The possessed dead thing has all the mental and physical powers of the Necromancer, however magic spells and psionic powers cannot be used, Because the corpse has no PPE or ISP!"

Does this mean natural abilities are transferred to the temporary bodies?

I would say mental means your mind, and physical means skills
It is a grey area on mystical powers, my personal call is that since it doesn't say they transfer...they don't.

VIsgar wrote:Could spells still be used if you had an alternate source of PPE like a Fairy Battery?

I would say no, after all it clearly says that you can't use spells, and the writer knew it would be possible to stand the corpse on a ley line.
I would say that it would be more of "the corpse has no PPE/ISP and can not manipulate it either."
Basically, since the spell says you can not cast spells it means Thou Shalt Not, it does not mean "unless you apply some weasel words to allow you to do what the spell specifically was designed not to allow." IMHO of course.

VIsgar wrote:Could a Necromancer (with a battery) use Union with the Dead on the temporary bodies?

No, see above


I hope this helps.

VIsgar wrote:Would the spell Negate Magic destroy a Dimensional Pocket?

Sure its an ongoing spell effect, sounds like a legal target to me

VIsgar wrote:What would happen to the contents of the pocket?

I would assume that it is expelled into our universe. I base this premise on the fact that other wise a trivially easy way to utterly destroy/kill something would be put it in a Dimensional Pocket/Envelope and let the duration expire. I also look at the spell Time Hole as an example.

VIsgar wrote:Can the spell Attune Object to Owner work on D-Pockets so if detected by a creature with the ability or knowledge it would remain unusable?

No it is a spell, not an object

VIsgar wrote:With Hand to Hand: Dragon you get a bonus to spell strength would that bonus transfer to the save versus tattoo magic?

No, you are not 'casting' your tattoo, the tattoo is a, basically a magic item that you activate as you go.

Expansion on answering the question about the nerco magic spell: The spell as per the magic concepts will only let the caster inhabit Dead Bodies. Not machines.

If it was a Techno Magic that mimic Tele-mech. possession then it would be able to possess machines. But since it is magic about manipulating dead bodies, no machine possession.


Just thought of the almost prefect analogy in a tech form. Watch the Bruce Willis movie "Surrogates".
--------

VIsgar wrote: (1) Would the spell Negate Magic destroy a Dimensional Pocket?

(2)What would happen to the contents of the pocket?

(3)Can the spell Attune Object to Owner work on D-Pockets so if detected by a creature with the ability or knowledge it would remain unusable?

(4)With Hand to Hand: Dragon you get a bonus to spell strength would that bonus transfer to the save versus tattoo magic?

1. yes, if it is specifically targeted. Even if the physical anchor is targeted.

2. there is no canon text coving this. The closest examples is a Nightbane talent and a mirror magic spell.
In the first there is a chance NB Ex-D storage space has a chance of ether dumping the contents where the NB was killed or the items being stored being lost.
In the 2nd if the mirror is broken the be-spelled are dumped out right then or after some time.

3. Depends on the GM it was enchanted under, and if other GMs will let the char keep it. Same reasons Eli said no, but it is also attached to a physical object.
If I though it was a cool Idea then maybe, but knee jerk answer would be no also.

4. No.

VIsgar wrote:
Can the spell Attune Object to Owner work on D-Pockets so if detected by a creature with the ability or knowledge it would remain unusable?

The way Attune Object to Owner works, is that the spell would have to be cast on the object that the Dimensional Pocket is cast upon. Which would then make it only usable by the owner of the Object. Anyone looking into object with AOtO and DP would then see an empty container.

I'd never thought about trying to use D-envelope or D-pockets to kill creatures I was more concerned about the hard earned loot I'd earned being trapped in the void until I conjured up a feasible way to reattain items from a small pocket I couldn't fit into.

In the games I play in and GM Ley Lines tend to be less common and I personally was looking at the Talisman spell (I tend to pay party members to help with high PPE costs or possibly below) to use as the method of paying for magic in an altered form so a three charge item up to level 8 invocations or as a PPE battery sounded amazing. I'll not approach the other GM's with this question I'd had. I like to collect your opinions and the my Co-Gms but I thought that was stretching it.

Marcethus - I feel the exact same way same way but don't want to put my personal opinion (the majority of the time) in the question I am asking. : )

In general I feel the same way as both Eliakon and Drewkitty. I just wanted to know how deep the rules go or if the don't what others opinions are. Since I do the most research about the rules for our group of players I wanted to ask people who know more than I do and it seems even though I only make posts very rarely you both have answered it seems every time.

I was planning to make a level 3 Chiang-Ku as a Temporal Wizard one of the five invocations I was going take was Immure Entities from Mysteries of Magic if a Syphon Entity could draw PPE/ISP ranged like a Traditional magic user like on Rifts UE: pg 186 or if only drawing off of the person in possession of whatever memento they are trapped in.

I was also thinking of using Speed Reading and Total Recall in conjunction with Impersonate and Intelligence as my two main RCC skills (for level 3) to learn types of jobs instead of new or upgraded skill so I could imitate more types of generic people (scientists, guards, civilians that belong in the area, etc.). What do you all think of this idea.

Talisman spell

This is how I interpret the spell text.

1st action: The listed cost of 500 PPE is to use the Talisman spell to change an object into a blank Talisman. At this point it is just primed to take in the magic it will be charged with.

2nd action: Then the blank Talisman can be charged with a spell or as a PPE battery at a cost of 50 PPE and the PPE needed to cast the spell stored or the PPE to be stored. At this point the talisman has been specialized to do the one spell it was charged with or to store power. With the casting mage deciding how much power to store in it. Deciding if he is only storing one spell charge or two or three charges worth of PPE, or as much PPE into it as a battery as he chooses.

The reasons I interpret the spell this way, besides that the text leads itself to be interpreted that way, is to make the spell more useful to the individual mage then the more strait line interpretation that the mage needs 500 PPE And the spell PPE times the number of charges to be stored.

VIsgar wrote:Marcethus - I feel the exact same way same way but don't want to put my personal opinion (the majority of the time) in the question I am asking. : )

In general I feel the same way as both Eliakon and Drewkitty. I just wanted to know how deep the rules go or if they don't what others opinions are. Since I do the most research about the rules for our group of players I wanted to ask people who know more than I do and it seems even though I only make posts very rarely you both have answered it seems every time.

I was planning to make a level 3 Chiang-Ku as a Temporal Wizard one of the five invocations I was going take was Immure Entities from Mysteries of Magic if a Syphon Entity could draw PPE/ISP ranged like a Traditional magic user like on Rifts UE: pg 186 or if only drawing off of the person in possession of whatever memento they are trapped in.

I was also thinking of using Speed Reading and Total Recall in conjunction with Impersonate and Intelligence as my two main RCC skills (for level 3) to learn types of jobs instead of new or upgraded skill so I could imitate more types of generic people (scientists, guards, civilians that belong in the area, etc.). What do you all think of this idea.

As I am a very big fan of the Chiang-Ku, I love the idea of a one as a Temporal Wizard. But as I do not own Mysteries of Magic I do not know of that spell.

The idea of using Speed Reading and total recall in conjunction with the Impersonate and Intelligence skills is a very good idea. And one well within the rules of the given skills and powers. What the exact bonuses would be is up to the particular GM though.

Metamorphosis for Chiang-Ku says it does not instill any abilities of the person or animal you're imitating.

Does this include using a ravens wings to fly like a bird?


I figured other dragons could use their mystic flight to enable that, but since Chiang-Ku cannot fly I wasn't sure. The do however alter their weight when they change.


I was watching the Shannara Chronicles not to long ago (it is outstanding) and saw the Changeling turn into clothed people.

If a Chiang-Ku doesn't wear clothes/armor is that possible?

If a Chiang-Ku transforms while wearing clothes or with weapons equipped what happens to them?

The last two questions I have never had to deal with in game as they were never asked.

As to your raven question I do not have easy access atm to my england book atm, so I will have to answer that later.

There is no text to say that a Dragon's weights charges when they metamorph. (as a GM I would not be too concerned about this. I would let the dragon act like how a real raven would act…..fly, sit on a tree branch, etc… so long as it makes a good part of the story.)

Clothes #1: no.
Clothes #2: the clothes are not changed by the dragons' metamorphosis ability.

This is what it says about Chiang-Ku in WB:3 pg 49

Weight (adult): 200 Ibs in human form, 1000 Ibs in serpent form. Hatchlings are about 20% lighter.


This lead me to believe they change weight when taking a new form.

VIsgar wrote:This is what it says about Chiang-Ku in WB:3 pg 49

Weight (adult): 200 Ibs in human form, 1000 Ibs in serpent form. Hatchlings are about 20% lighter.


This lead me to believe they change weight when taking a new form.

Or….they gain weight when they grow up into adults……just like with humans.

That human weight and dragon weight are both listed made me think weight is based on what I would be metamorphed into.

We only use adult dragons as NPCs.

I think their weight might change according to form in the specific instance of the Chiang-ku. As IIRC other dragons specifically say they do not change weight when metamorphosing.

Marcethus wrote:Answer to question 12 based solely on the description of the Anti-Magic Cloud spell is no. It does not weaken Creatures of Magic nor supernatural creatures. Unless one of the newer books changed that or if it is mentioned under specific creatures description (there are none that I know of currently that list said affectedness by AMC spell.)

RUE changed the spell so it does weaken them signficantly. They must save vs magic at 18 or become SDC beings for the duration, making them trivial to kill.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Marcethus wrote:Answer to question 12 based solely on the description of the Anti-Magic Cloud spell is no. It does not weaken Creatures of Magic nor supernatural creatures. Unless one of the newer books changed that or if it is mentioned under specific creatures description (there are none that I know of currently that list said affectedness by AMC spell.)

RUE changed the spell so it does weaken them signficantly. They must save vs magic at 18 or become SDC beings for the duration, making
them trivial to kill.

Holy chit. They's broke the spell.

Though since the wording is 'weakens creatures who are MDC because of magic' it would be GM's call as to exactly what creatures are affected.

Marcethus wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Marcethus wrote:Answer to question 12 based solely on the description of the Anti-Magic Cloud spell is no. It does not weaken Creatures of Magic nor supernatural creatures. Unless one of the newer books changed that or if it is mentioned under specific creatures description (there are none that I know of currently that list said affectedness by AMC spell.)

RUE changed the spell so it does weaken them signficantly. They must save vs magic at 18 or become SDC beings for the duration, making
them trivial to kill.

Holy chit. They's broke the spell.

Though since the wording is 'weakens creatures who are MDC because of magic' it would be GM's call as to exactly what creatures are affected.

No creature is naturally MDC except due to the high magic levels. the best they are otherwise are beings with hundreds or thousands of SDC naturally.

For which there is the Paradox shaman, has a spell that does just that.

I am not sure how I feel about Anti-Magic Cloud being given the ability to turn MDC beings to SDC. It doesn't feel right for that spell to be such a game changer. Especially given for the PPE cost of the spell.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Marcethus wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Marcethus wrote:Answer to question 12 based solely on the description of the Anti-Magic Cloud spell is no. It does not weaken Creatures of Magic nor supernatural creatures. Unless one of the newer books changed that or if it is mentioned under specific creatures description (there are none that I know of currently that list said affectedness by AMC spell.)

RUE changed the spell so it does weaken them signficantly. They must save vs magic at 18 or become SDC beings for the duration, making
them trivial to kill.

Holy chit. They's broke the spell.

Though since the wording is 'weakens creatures who are MDC because of magic' it would be GM's call as to exactly what creatures are affected.

No creature is naturally MDC except due to the high magic levels. the best they are otherwise are beings with hundreds or thousands of SDC naturally.

NS the spell text is clear that there are beings and creatures that are Naturally MDC that the MDC is not due to Magic.
However, it can be safely assumed that all SN and CoM beings are only MDC via the effects of magic.
And this is when the PF: Monsters & animals book and the PF:Dragons & Gods book come in handy when converting the SN & CoM to their SDC stat levels.

The way they tried to balance it out to me is by making it easier to save. Add you PE bonus vs magic (and only it) instead of just 18-20.

They may have considered that to be a balancing factor when they changed the spell but that is minor when compared to what they added to the spell's effect of turning certain MDC creatures into SDC.

The question is really, how are these creatures of magic turned into SDC by Anti-Magic Cloud?

Fire Dragon Hatchling
Is it a straight conversion - 300 MDC --> 300 SDC
Is it a conversion to Palladium Monster and Animals / Dragons & Gods Stats - 300 MDC --> 300 HP & 220 SDC
Is it a conversion like Paradox Shaman spell Universal balance - 300 MDC --> 30,000 SDC

I would normally rule similar to the Paradox Shaman Universal Balance Spell, but how do you interpret it.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Marcethus wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Marcethus wrote:Answer to question 12 based solely on the description of the Anti-Magic Cloud spell is no. It does not weaken Creatures of Magic nor supernatural creatures. Unless one of the newer books changed that or if it is mentioned under specific creatures description (there are none that I know of currently that list said affectedness by AMC spell.)

RUE changed the spell so it does weaken them signficantly. They must save vs magic at 18 or become SDC beings for the duration, making
them trivial to kill.

Holy chit. They's broke the spell.

Though since the wording is 'weakens creatures who are MDC because of magic' it would be GM's call as to exactly what creatures are affected.

No creature is naturally MDC except due to the high magic levels. the best they are otherwise are beings with hundreds or thousands of SDC naturally.

NS the spell text is clear that there are beings and creatures that are Naturally MDC that the MDC is not due to Magic.
However, it can be safely assumed that all SN and CoM beings are only MDC via the effects of magic.
And this is when the PF: Monsters & animals book and the PF:Dragons & Gods book come in handy when converting the SN & CoM to their SDC stat levels.

Name a creature that would be MDC if you took it through a rift to Palladium Fantasty. The only ones that come to mind are Splicers creations, as their world is ectremely low magic

Actually it would be "Name a creature that would be MDC within a AMC in a MDC setting even is they fail their saving throw vs the AMC?" the Catyr is one race that come to mind. They are not SN nor CoM and they are MDC.

The Splicers bio-suites would be SDC on the PF world, because it is a SDC setting.

If a Chain-Ku made a magic weapon then turned to mist, couldn't they just wield them via Ectoplasm or TK if they had those powers?

Or if they learned magic, cast the telekinesis spell before turning to mist. Inability to cast new spells wouldn't cancel those already in effect.

The 'cannot communicate' seems rather blanket so you could technically outrule telepathy, but I think this was meant in the spirit of 'you can't talk'.

But in that case you should still allow non-speaking spell-casting via the Underseas rules of extra time which were not present at the time of England's printing.

The text should read "cannot talk" or "cannot physically communicate"

I imagine any psionics that required 2-way eye contact or verbal enforcement would also have some problems.

I just read the Chiang-Ku out of england and their metamorphosis doesn't say anything about not being able to communicate while in mist form. Where does it say that they are incapable of communicating while in mist form?

Marcethus wrote:I just read the Chiang-Ku out of england and their metamorphosis doesn't say anything about not being able to communicate while in mist form. Where does it say that they are incapable of communicating while in mist form?

They can. The metamorphasis power says they can still talk regardless of shape in their metamorphasis power. even the spell version of metamorphasis mist says you can talk and cast spells in Mist form. it's very useful.

Maybe we're thinking of the vampire version? I think I might have seen restrictions like that in Kingdoms.