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If you follow the same basic formula as Mind Block to Mind Block Auto-Defense, would allowing a player to make their lesser psionic powers permanent/reflexive with no ISP expenditure be overpowering?

Formula: Permanent expenditure of 3.5 times the powers base ISP cost and it becomes a super psionic power (requiring the appropriate slot).

Abadon Spectre wrote:If you follow the same basic formula as Mind Block to Mind Block Auto-Defense, would allowing a player to make their lesser psionic powers permanent/reflexive with no ISP expenditure be overpowering?

Formula: Permanent expenditure of 3.5 times the powers base ISP cost and it becomes a super psionic power (requiring the appropriate slot).

As a G.M. I could be convinced to consider this on a case-by-case basis. I think as a blanket ability, yes - it would be potentially overpowering.

The first thing that occurs to me with this idea is that the power you're making permanent would need to be a minor psionic power, and you wouldn't be able to do this to a super-psionic power.

Minor powers, on a case by case basis might be possible.
Stuff like See Aura and Sense Time as an always on Super Psionic ability is not to game breaking...
...But things like Telepathy, or Telekinesis though could easily get out of hand.

Agrees with Eli and G.

Glistam wrote:

Abadon Spectre wrote:If you follow the same basic formula as Mind Block to Mind Block Auto-Defense, would allowing a player to make their lesser psionic powers permanent/reflexive with no ISP expenditure be overpowering?

Formula: Permanent expenditure of 3.5 times the powers base ISP cost and it becomes a super psionic power (requiring the appropriate slot).

As a G.M. I could be convinced to consider this on a case-by-case basis. I think as a blanket ability, yes - it would be potentially overpowering.

The first thing that occurs to me with this idea is that the power you're making permanent would need to be a minor psionic power, and you wouldn't be able to do this to a super-psionic power.

Over all I agree that it should be a case-by-case basis at this stage. Though I think it would be better to generate a pre-approved list in this matter rather than on-the-fly. One might also want to consider ways to make this available to psychics w/o access to the Super-Category and maybe even limit the # of active powers one can use as a result to help balance things out.

However, I do not think it can be limited to minor psionics, as there is at least one case (Cyber-Knight Psi-Sword) that shows that a Super can be modified to have zero cost, more if we include sub-abilities that also appear in various classes's powers. Then there are examples of reduced cost/improved effectiveness.

I think the main stumbling block though is how to handle variable cost powers like Telekensis (regular or super) since the targeted weight/mass determines the ISP cost.

ShadowLogan wrote:

Glistam wrote:

Abadon Spectre wrote:If you follow the same basic formula as Mind Block to Mind Block Auto-Defense, would allowing a player to make their lesser psionic powers permanent/reflexive with no ISP expenditure be overpowering?

Formula: Permanent expenditure of 3.5 times the powers base ISP cost and it becomes a super psionic power (requiring the appropriate slot).

As a G.M. I could be convinced to consider this on a case-by-case basis. I think as a blanket ability, yes - it would be potentially overpowering.

The first thing that occurs to me with this idea is that the power you're making permanent would need to be a minor psionic power, and you wouldn't be able to do this to a super-psionic power.

Over all I agree that it should be a case-by-case basis at this stage. Though I think it would be better to generate a pre-approved list in this matter rather than on-the-fly. One might also want to consider ways to make this available to psychics w/o access to the Super-Category and maybe even limit the # of active powers one can use as a result to help balance things out.

However, I do not think it can be limited to minor psionics, as there is at least one case (Cyber-Knight Psi-Sword) that shows that a Super can be modified to have zero cost, more if we include sub-abilities that also appear in various classes's powers. Then there are examples of reduced cost/improved effectiveness.

I think the main stumbling block though is how to handle variable cost powers like Telekensis (regular or super) since the targeted weight/mass determines the ISP cost.

Okay, that's different then. You're actually looking for Mutant Animal psionics. Everything you're looking to do is located there.

"On a case by case basis", because a good potion of the powers do not lend themselves to be 'always on'. Like the mentioned TK powers and psi swords, and most of the healing and super psi powers.

By general consensus Case by Case is apparently the way to go.

As an alternative to requiring the power to be a lesser power that takes up a super slot, Allow the chosen power to take up two slots of its type. A permanent super psionic takes up two super psionic slots, a permanent sensitive power takes up two sensitive slots, etc...
Now I have this image of a Crazy with permanent TK Leap singing and hopping around town like a deranged cricket.

Whether the power would be reflexive like Mind Block Auto-defense or at will like the Cyber-knight's psi-sword would be handled individually.

I would recommend that powers with a minimum and variable cost like TK and TK: Super be set at the minimum effect (if allowed to be permanent) and have the character pay the difference for any greater effect.

I'm currently stumped on how this would work for the other kinetic powers (pyro, hydro, etc...) where the base power has a number of sub-powers.

Most of the healing powers would be at will, but what would the effect (in any) on meditation times be?

Since we're using Mind Block Auto-Defense as the template here, I would stick closer to that template.

Sensitive: Mind Block (4)
Super: Mind Block Auto-Defense (14 permanent)

I could then entertain the following:

Physical: Telekinesis (2+)
Super: Telekinesis Auto-Defense (28 permanent)

TK Auto-Defense provides an automatic parry, at the standard +4 bonus, against any physical attack levied against the psychic of which he is aware of. To allow physical contact the psychic must deliberately, consciously choose to hold this defense at bay.

Healing: Detect Psionics (4)
Super: Detect Psionics Auto-Sense (14 permanent)

Detect Psionics Auto-Sense automatically lets the psychic know when psionic activity occurs within the power's range. Range, clarity, and what is sensed is identical to the Healing power.

Super psionics would not be available in this format. Instead, the Mutant Animal creation rules contain appropriate guidelines for those types of powers. Conversely, many super powers exist which mimic psionics to a point, and those would be a better fit than trying to apply Mind BLock auto-defense.

Mind-Block Auto-Defense is less permanent than it is cost-free and reflexive. The indefinite duration could simply be the result of it automatically engaging at the end of each duration period as needed.

I feel obligated to point out that Mind Block Auto Defense is not on all the time. It activates reflexively as a defense. Other defensive powers that activate reflexively to a specific set of defined conditions might be okay. I do not see this idea as applicable to any power that requires some kind of active control. Healing powers would work. Simply makes them more like a natural bio-regeneration ability. Most of the examples talked about so far do not seem to fit in with how Mind Block Auto Defense works.

I think it is a overpowered idea.

While Mindblock is active the character cannot use any sensing or psionic abilities nor be influenced by others. This is built in limitations to mind block and mind block auto defense. Sure you want to be immune? Ok, but you cannot use your other psionic powers.

The others have no built in limitations like this and are ripe to be abused by a clever mind.

If I were rewriting from scratch, I would have Mind-Block Auto Defense work like Sixth Sense... it goes off when you need it, rather than being a fixed, permanent, cost. So, if you have Mind-Block Auto Defense, it would activate, without an action, costing you 4 ISP, each time you were mentally attacked, and give you a standing defense for a while because of that.

If I followed MBAD's suggestion, I would limit it to powers that affected the psionic, only... nothing that works outside of their mind or body.

But, looking at powers, and assuming we use MBAD as a model (rather than Sixth Sense):

Attack Disease: Probably Weird
Bio-regeneration: Pretty powerful
Deaden Pain: Probably weird
Detect Psionics: OK
Exorcism: Probably Weird
Healing Touch: Pretty Powerful
Increased Healing: Pretty powerful
Induce Sleep: Probably Weird
Lust for Life: Probably Weird
Psychic Diagnosis: OK. Not great, but OK.
Psychic Purification: Pretty Powerful
Psychic Surgery: Probably Weird
Resist Fatigue: OK.
Suppress Fear: OK.
Transfer ISP: Probably Weird

Physical
Alter Aura: OK
Death Trance: Probably Weird
Ectoplasm: OK... but weird.
Float: OK, but weird
Impervious to Cold: OK
Impervious to Fire: OK
Impervious to Poison/Toxin: OK
Levitation: Probably Weird
Mind Block: Worst idea ever.
Nightvision: OK
Resist Fatigue: OK
Resist Hunger: OK, but gonna get weird.
Resist Thirst: More like a curse
Summon Inner Strength: OK
Spontaneous Combustion: OK
TK: Probably Weird (lots to define, really)
TK Punch: OK
TK Leap: OK
Teleport Object: OK

Sensitive:
Astral Projection: OK
Clairvoyance: Already has an always on aspect
Commune with Animals: OK
Commune with Spirit: OK
Dispel Spirits: Probably Weird
Emapthy: OK
Mind Block: Without a doubt, game breaking
Object Read: Probably Weird
Presence Sense: OK
See Aura: OK
See the Invisible: OK
Sense Dimensional Anomaly: OK
Sense Evil: OK
Sense Magic: OK
Sixth Sense: already has always-on
Speed Reading: OK
Telepathy: OK
Total Recall: Power itself needs clarity of writing.

Some of them could get very odd and have some devastating consequences if always on. An utter lack of fear is a psychological issue, foe example. However, some of the other weird ones could be solved, by having an option to spend ISP to turn them off temporarily.

I pretty much agree with Mark about the comments about the ones he is not sending to Oklahoma.

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These ones I would be okay with as a GM…
Healing
Deaden Pain
Detect Psionics
Psychic Diagnosis
Resist Fatigue
Suppress Fear

Physical
Alter Aura
Impervious to Cold
Impervious to Fire
Impervious to Poison/Toxin


Sensitive:
Presence Sense
See Aura
See the Invisible
Sense Dimensional Anomaly
Sense Evil
Sense Magic
Speed Reading

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I pretty much agree with Mark about the comments about the ones he is not sending to Oklahoma.

---------
These ones I would be okay with as a GM…
Healing
Deaden Pain
Detect Psionics
Psychic Diagnosis
Resist Fatigue
Suppress Fear

Physical
Alter Aura
Impervious to Cold
Impervious to Fire
Impervious to Poison/Toxin


Sensitive:
Emapthy
Presence Sense
See Aura
See the Invisible
Sense Dimensional Anomaly
Sense Evil
Sense Magic
Speed Reading

I figure empathy and telepathy two sides of the same coin. So I'd either remove them both or add them both to your list.

Healing touch imo shouldn't be on the list if that's what you meant.

Increased Healing, if that is what you meant, would turn into a natural bio-regeneration imo. So if they took that I'd not let them have bionics, cybernetics or psynetics as they'd be expelled from the body.

VIsgar wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I pretty much agree with Mark about the comments about the ones he is not sending to Oklahoma.

---------
These ones I would be okay with as a GM…
Healing
Deaden Pain
Detect Psionics
Psychic Diagnosis
Resist Fatigue
Suppress Fear

Physical
Alter Aura
Impervious to Cold
Impervious to Fire
Impervious to Poison/Toxin


Sensitive:
Emapthy
Presence Sense
See Aura
See the Invisible
Sense Dimensional Anomaly
Sense Evil
Sense Magic
Speed Reading

I figure empathy and telepathy two sides of the same coin. So I'd either remove them both or add them both to your list.

Healing touch imo shouldn't be on the list if that's what you meant.

Increased Healing, if that is what you meant, would turn into a natural bio-regeneration imo. So if they took that I'd not let them have bionics, cybernetics or psynetics as they'd be expelled from the body.

i'm pretty sure "Healing" is just the category

i would add nightvision, resist hunger, resist thirst, telekinetic leap, and telekinetic lift to physical. i'd actually remove psychic diagnosis from healing. i'd add commune with spirits, mask ISP & psionics, mask PPE, and sense time to sensitive powers. and maybe even total recall.

not sure on specific costs for all of them though.

Agrees that they are similar.
I also dislike the format the PB system has for psionics because it places a cost on using powers that should be costless if only listening.