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When playing a race that has no need of or can't use an OCC skill, is it cool to substitute or are you out of luck?
(i.e. a centaur cyber knight has no need of Horsemanship: Cyber Knight)

It's up to your GM.

Petty tyrants thrive when they have authority backed by vague regulations.

As per canon: SOL.

I replace said unusable/duplicate skill in char creation, with skills from the same grouping of skills.
If it is a char being made specific new campaign I inform the GM of my actions. Thus, giving her fair warning.
If it is a pre-made char (i.e. made for fun before game is known)….I probably have forgotten so….if the GM is not doing due diligence….*shrugs*

why not just let the centaur count as riding a horse all the time? you get a bit less bonus, but you pretty much always qualify, so in that specific case, it actually sounds pretty good imo

HarleeKnight wrote:When playing a race that has no need of or can't use an OCC skill, is it cool to substitute or are you out of luck?
(i.e. a centaur cyber knight has no need of Horsemanship: Cyber Knight)

Out of luck.

But hey, see if the GM is merciful.

HarleeKnight wrote:When playing a race that has no need of or can't use an OCC skill, is it cool to substitute or are you out of luck?
(i.e. a centaur cyber knight has no need of Horsemanship: Cyber Knight)

I ask my GM.
When I GM I usually us my personal house rule and offer the character a replacement skill that is similar or fits the same 'training niche' that they would have had.
I.e. the centaur cyber knight might be able to get running, or WP lance, or Forced March or something...
...I would NOT let them take pilot jet pack, or weapons engineer or the like.
My theory here is that since the training is not usually implanted or imbued or the like it seems likely that you would not spend training time on something that can't be trained and would instead train to get a similar effect.


When I make a character I usually figure out what skill would be close, and put it in with a note along the lines of "Running, replaces Horsemanship: Cyber Knight" So that they can see what I did, and why. It helps to prevent later accusations of "wait, did you sneak this past me?" or "Wait a second. How the heck did I end up with this skill anyway?"
After asking if that is okay of course.

eliakon wrote:

HarleeKnight wrote:When playing a race that has no need of or can't use an OCC skill, is it cool to substitute or are you out of luck?
(i.e. a centaur cyber knight has no need of Horsemanship: Cyber Knight)

I ask my GM.
When I GM I usually us my personal house rule and offer the character a replacement skill that is similar or fits the same 'training niche' that they would have had.
I.e. the centaur cyber knight might be able to get running, or WP lance, or Forced March or something...
...I would NOT let them take pilot jet pack, or weapons engineer or the like.
My theory here is that since the training is not usually implanted or imbued or the like it seems likely that you would not spend training time on something that can't be trained and would instead train to get a similar effect.


When I make a character I usually figure out what skill would be close, and put it in with a note along the lines of "Running, replaces Horsemanship: Cyber Knight" So that they can see what I did, and why. It helps to prevent later accusations of "wait, did you sneak this past me?" or "Wait a second. How the heck did I end up with this skill anyway?"
After asking if that is okay of course.

I think this is the way were are going to go. We are looking at OCC related skills and seeing which one might be a good replacement.

Ask your gm to replace it with running? seems appropriate to me or general athletics?

Out of Luck.

But you can always ask your GM, some are nice and let you swap them out for something else.

By the book - SOL

I usually allow a domestic or minor technical skill or the like, nothing game changing or outrageous.

For the Centaur CK I would probably allow a physical skill like Running, or even swimming to be switched for horsemanship, but by the book SOL stands.

Perhaps a centaur would be interested in buying a bionic horse who can run faster than him and which has enough strength to carry him.

It seems awkward to picture, but not 100% impossible...

I mean there's probably technically nothing stopping other quadriped races from getting horsemanship either except our imagination.

eliakon wrote:[
...I would NOT let them take pilot jet pack, or weapons engineer or the like..

Depends on the background of your Centaur character and what the GM allows to carry over from that background.
(I) Could probably design a jetpack for a Centaur...but for most species, it would be specialist work or a custom job.

taalismn wrote:

eliakon wrote:[
...I would NOT let them take pilot jet pack, or weapons engineer or the like..

Depends on the background of your Centaur character and what the GM allows to carry over from that background.
(I) Could probably design a jetpack for a Centaur...but for most species, it would be specialist work or a custom job.

Oh I would TOTALLY allow a Centaur to take Jet Pack.
But I would not let you substitute Jet Pack for Horsemanship in your OCC.
It 'wouldn't fly' as a reasonable substitute skill. It doesn't fit the idea of what a knight would be doing.
The Centaur would get a physical skill or the like... to represent that he would be out there doing the same training as a regular knight, he would just get a different lesson out of it.

eliakon wrote:[
Oh I would TOTALLY allow a Centaur to take Jet Pack..

In that case, I'd see a centaur jetpack as looking more like the 'skyhook' descent stage of the Curiosity Mars Rover...Centaur underslung, gimballed jets on the sides, plus maybe some folding wings.

glitterboy2098 wrote:Jetpack Centaur

That's six separate units...hopefully he's got some way to coordinate their operation.

HarleeKnight wrote:When playing a race that has no need of or can't use an OCC skill, is it cool to substitute or are you out of luck?
(i.e. a centaur cyber knight has no need of Horsemanship: Cyber Knight)

It's up to the GM really. I'd say no really, given that other examples exist where duplicate skills (in OCC/MOS) don't result in free skills.

I would try to look at the skill(s) in question and see if there is a way to make them work. In your example Centaur Cyber-Knight and Horsemanship skill, on the face of it the entire skill isn't useful, but aspects of it could be considered still useable. A Centaur might not be able to ride a horse, but they can still know how to care, breed, hitch a wagon, control a distressed horse. While you are unlikely to knock a Centaur off its mount, the second number could be modified allowing them to really push themselves and such. Combat bonuses to could be seen as a type of training they received to be more effective (since they are always mounted, they would always apply though some might have to be restricted as parry/dodge bonus while mounted should only apply to the upper body strikes, and the bonus to trike with horse for using the horse limbs).

If a skill can't be used, or stretched to be used, and if I consider it a defining skill of the class (ex, a Robot Pilot who can't take Pilot R&PA) they can't take the OCC, otherwise it would just be a wasted skill.

could use the dismount aspect as a straight up balance roll.

seriously, if you let the centaur count as always mounted in the specific case of horsemanship, no special compensation is needed, and no special modifications to the skill are required. +6 to melee damage (whether SDC or MD), +2 to parry and dodge, between +1 and +4 to initiative, and charges get +3d6 damage with spear-like weapons.

you don't need to add more to that to make it worth taking.

ShadowLogan wrote:

HarleeKnight wrote:When playing a race that has no need of or can't use an OCC skill, is it cool to substitute or are you out of luck?
(i.e. a centaur cyber knight has no need of Horsemanship: Cyber Knight)

It's up to the GM really. I'd say no really, given that other examples exist where duplicate skills (in OCC/MOS) don't result in free skills.

I would try to look at the skill(s) in question and see if there is a way to make them work. In your example Centaur Cyber-Knight and Horsemanship skill, on the face of it the entire skill isn't useful, but aspects of it could be considered still useable. A Centaur might not be able to ride a horse, but they can still know how to care, breed, hitch a wagon, control a distressed horse. While you are unlikely to knock a Centaur off its mount, the second number could be modified allowing them to really push themselves and such. Combat bonuses to could be seen as a type of training they received to be more effective (since they are always mounted, they would always apply though some might have to be restricted as parry/dodge bonus while mounted should only apply to the upper body strikes, and the bonus to trike with horse for using the horse limbs).

If a skill can't be used, or stretched to be used, and if I consider it a defining skill of the class (ex, a Robot Pilot who can't take Pilot R&PA) they can't take the OCC, otherwise it would just be a wasted skill.

Indeed...the Horsemanship skills could be considered to be martial arts(centaur-style) modifiers.

I'd probably just sub 'Athletics' or 'Running' for simplicity as a house rule.

That or just ignore the skill. Sometimes you just omit stuff. That one NPC without cyber-armor didn't get any benefit in return for not getting that.

I guess skill substitutions are supported via Spirit West though.