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Vindicators get a master (super) psi at level 3, Guardians get the option at 4, Seers/Defenders at 5.

One option is Possesion (aka Mentally Possess Others in other games)

What abilities do you think would carry over? Any other psionics? Skills are retained but I don't know about attribute bonuses. I figure bonus versus horror factor yes but defi itely not bonuses to Host form. Bonuses that affect all forms not sure about.

Also re Talents. Could a Defender use Shadow Shield? Could a Seer use See Truth?

Same re the Fallen/Dark Guardians (assuming they get master access at 4th, fuzzy area) and their talenty shadow poets or guardian/athanatos powers of Light.

All PPE stuff so they seem more spell-like and I figure spell knowledge comes with you like skills even if psychic or super powers didn't. Particularly when Talents come from OCCs like Paths which makes them seem learned.

Don't Dark Guardians first require the Book of Ultimate Evil? So I wouldn't worrry about them existing.

For the others, I'd let them use any power that seems psychic, but not physical. So no to Shadow Shield but yes for See Truth or Soul Shield.

Pg 96 says it is done through rituals in the ancient tome of Ultimate Darkness and Evil (ATOUDAE?) and that it is rare.

We don't know exactly how rare (just that someone believes there are 'only a few') the book is, and also, we don't know for sure that this Tome is the only place where these rituals can be found, just that the book is one place that has them.

Presumably there are Dark Guardians who know it (or maybe Priests of Night?) who seek out Stripped Guardians to seduce? Doesn't say you actually need the book on hand to do the ritual..

Evil Guardians keep their powers.

I would not allow a Athanatos to take psi abliites that conflict with their path.

""What abilities do you think would carry over?
What do you mean...""carry over""? it is like you think we are psychic and just know what you mean.
Maybe slow down and form you thoughts in a more formal way w/o leaving off the background ideas.
RFI: what did you mean? (IOW: asking for a rewrite)

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What do you mean...""carry over""? it is like you think we are psychic and just know what you mean.
Maybe slow down and form you thoughts in a more formal way w/o leaving off the background ideas.
RFI: what did you mean? (IOW: asking for a rewrite)

By "carry over" I mean "use while occupying the body of the person you Mentally Possessed".

Which powers or bonuses would only apply in their native body?

Exactly What the psionic power says 'carry over' would be my 1st thought.

The Nightbane main book description wasn't written with Talents in mind since Nightbane couldn't get Psi, Athanatos raise this query.

I would probably treat talents like superpowers. (Unless someone had a better idea )

acreRake wrote:I would probably treat talents like superpowers. (Unless someone had a better idea )

My view is that Talents are a form of magic.
Here is why
1) They use PPE
2) They are blocked by Anti-Arcane and other magic blocking abilities
3) They are learned by a magic class as one of their powers (Shadow Warlock)
4) They are constantly referred to by terms like 'mystic' and 'magical' and the like.
Now any one of these doesn't do anything... but together? Oh yeah, to me it sells it.
Basically they are a form of magic, just one that is for want of a better word 'intuitive' you either know it or you don't. To borrow a term from That Other Game System they are a spell like ability and not a spell per se. As such they follow the same rules as other magic.

I think I would keep Talents reserved for use by Nightbane unless the book says that one is available to a different class. I would not make them all readily available to mages.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:I think I would keep Talents reserved for use by Nightbane unless the book says that one is available to a different class. I would not make them all readily available to mages.

I don't think they are, or that they should be.
They are a restricted/specialized form of magic that only a select few can use.
So far that few includes: Nightbane, Dream Personae, Living Nightmares, Reshapers, Shadow Warlocks, Athanos, Fallen Guardians and potentially some unspecified 'others' (re the Rifter #2 canon article on cyberjacking)

So it isn't an increadibly long list... but it is not a unique one either.
It is sort of how unless a particular race or class is said to be able to use Warlock Spells, or Stone magic that it is not avaliable to it.

If Talents carried over like spells, would you cast using the PPE of your host body or could you bring your PPE along for the ride?

Axelmania wrote:If Talents carried over like spells, would you cast using the PPE of your host body or could you bring your PPE along for the ride?

Given that PPE is tied to ones PE, I'd say that you need to use the PPE of the host body.

Not everyone has PE-based PPE formulas. There's also an earth warlock NPC in PF who transferred his mind into a golem and can still do magic.

Axelmania wrote:Not everyone has PE-based PPE formulas. There's also an earth warlock NPC in PF who transferred his mind into a golem and can still do magic.

Well, does the character in question have a PE based formula?

That the warlock can still do magic in and of itself doesn't tell us much. Does the entry make clear what his current source of PPE is?

The PE formulas are justified in text as being able to 'handle the load' more as part of your magical training.
Thus once you HAVE the PPE... you have it.
This is further reinforced by the fact that several sources link PPE to souls/life force and that possessing entities use their own PPE not the hosts, and the like...

eliakon wrote:The PE formulas are justified in text as being able to 'handle the load' more as part of your magical training.
Thus once you HAVE the PPE... you have it.
This is further reinforced by the fact that several sources link PPE to souls/life force and that possessing entities use their own PPE not the hosts, and the like...

The possessing entity is a great point. Does anyone know examples where the possessor uses the possessed bodies PPE?

Rifts England and the fragments of Zazshan inhabiting actual corpses who get PPE and can cast spells stands out as a pretty interesting example of not relying on PPE of the host.

Generally speaking, Mental attributes only. If you're taking over, the physical remains the victim, the mental is you.

However, on a case-by-case basis, I'd say if the ability is tied to the body/morphus, then you don't get it.
Again, case-by-case, but most purely mental abilities would come with...however, psi (for example) could be considered as not transferring, because the host's brain doesn't have the "mutation" to allow it...