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Are there any PCC/RCC/OCC Master Psychics that can learn magic - legally created with the Rifts rules, rather than GM allowing combinations prohibited by the rules?

I guess mystics can learn psionics and magic, but are capped in both both their psychic and magic learning.

I know there is a lot of Munchkining out combining PCC/RCCs with OCCs, but I'd like to avoid that if the rules prohibit it.

Thanks,
Mal

Demigod and Godling can learn both. Conversion Book 2.

You can dual class per rules in PF high seas ....
Dragons
Promethans even first stage
Any psionics occ that does a witch pact
Most things that can be a caster and a master psi are going to be rcc's .

Thanks guys.

Mal

The Chiang-Ku dragon can get psionics and take a magic OCC.

Godlings can Have both magic powers and master psi powers (taking a liberal view of what is allowable via the Psi powers power. For both of these it is the Godling just intuitively has these as abilities, rather then something developed of learned.

Demigods: can have one of the Godling powers along with one that hey have developed or learned.

The Changing class rules (dual class, multiclass) in PF highseas….The PF PCCs can't change their class nor can anyone in PF change their class to a PCC due to specific limiting text in each PCC. What this means for Rifts is in dispute.
Dragons do have natural psi powers, And can learn magic as they grow in exp. But Using the Highseas rules to change to a PCC is, as I said, are in dispute.

Those char types that can have both master psi powers and spell casting abilities are very few and most have already been mentioned here.

I seek to recall Yhabbayar Bubble Makers were master psis and knew magic.

Bubble Makers. I remember these guys. Now this would work!

Thanks,
Mal

The magic tattoos say something about Cyber knights being able to get them. Since they are Psychic based, I don't see why other Psy classes can't also get them. As for the main point, don't see why the Psy classes can't lean magic? Especially with the fact that all the Magic classes can have some degree of Psy power.

rem1093 wrote:The magic tattoos say something about Cyber knights being able to get them. Since they are Psychic based, I don't see why other Psy classes can't also get them. As for the main point, don't see why the Psy classes can't lean magic? Especially with the fact that all the Magic classes can have some degree of Psy power.

Its the master distinction though, anyone can be a minor or major psi user, but a master is actually rarer than a mage.
Masters have huge save benifits when it comes to having psi used on them, access to a larger set of super psionics at level 1 ect.

For non creatures of magic its just not usually an option to spend your youth some how learning magic with your latent ppe and psi to form both equally well.
Psi also has a huge speed advantage over magic, 2 spells a round or however many attacks you have psionic actions.
So 4 or 5 mind bolts or 2 fire bolts as an example.

Zamion138 wrote:

rem1093 wrote:The magic tattoos say something about Cyber knights being able to get them. Since they are Psychic based, I don't see why other Psy classes can't also get them. As for the main point, don't see why the Psy classes can't lean magic? Especially with the fact that all the Magic classes can have some degree of Psy power.

Its the master distinction though, anyone can be a minor or major psi user, but a master is actually rarer than a mage.
Masters have huge save benifits when it comes to having psi used on them, access to a larger set of super psionics at level 1 ect.

For non creatures of magic its just not usually an option to spend your youth some how learning magic with your latent ppe and psi to form both equally well.
Psi also has a huge speed advantage over magic, 2 spells a round or however many attacks you have psionic actions.
So 4 or 5 mind bolts or 2 fire bolts as an example.

With RUE spell casting speeds, that isn't as true as it used to be, since incantations level 1-5 now only take one melee action. Boxing makes you better at spell casting now, too.

Your best "Legal" combination is Demi-God or Godling.

As a Demigod, take a psychic Class (Mind Melter for the power versatility), and en spend your one Godling power on Line Walker, Shifter, TW, or Temporal Wizard powers.

Boom, full Super Psi goodness + all the powers of a Magic OCC.

Royal Frilled dragon gets master level psionics and casts magic.

In the HU PU2 book, the player can choose to be an Immortal power category. Which with some of the options on the 'type of powers' table is a combination of psi and magic.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:In the HU PU2 book, the player can choose to be an Immortal power category. Which with some of the options on the 'type of powers' table is a combination of psi and magic.

Which is neither a master psychic, nor legally creatable with the Rifts rules.
Which defeats the purpose of the original posters questions to get something that is both of those things.

Whales, Dolphins, and Pneuma-Biforms can have a weird/limited mix of magic and psychics, at least some of which are considered Master level. A bit out there, but thought I would mention them.

Edit: PW additions added below.
Silhouttes from Phase World have the standard range of psionics(assumed to include Master) as well as limited spell casting.

The Iborian Healer in Anvil Galaxy can take a magic OCC, while all are Master Psychics.

RockJock wrote:Whales, Dolphins, and Pneuma-Biforms can have a weird/limited mix of magic and psychics, at least some of which are considered Master level. A bit out there, but thought I would mention them.

Edit: PW additions added below.
Silhouttes from Phase World have the standard range of psionics(assumed to include Master) as well as limited spell casting.

The Iborian Healer in Anvil Galaxy can take a magic OCC, while all are Master Psychics.

Masters is not a random roll(standard means they get the roll but they have a RCC so can not take a PCC for master level) but a typcially a PCC.

Lone star mutant animals are considered master psi and feral CS battle cats can be mages.

That makes them able to cast spells and track it similar to dog boys.

I always took standard to mean "like humans". So throw out the Sil.

RockJock wrote:I always took standard to mean "like humans". So throw out the Sil.

It would be but to be a master is a PCC and if you are required to take a RCC then you can not take the PCC. If they did not havea RCC requirement then they could.

I think the latest version of the conversion book says master psionics can take ninjas and superspies powers, and those are semi magical.

Anyone can learn them if they can get a martial art form.

CBrevised included a way to emulate the powers using psi, but its a new thing.

Blue_Lion wrote:

RockJock wrote:I always took standard to mean "like humans". So throw out the Sil.

It would be but to be a master is a PCC and if you are required to take a RCC then you can not take the PCC. If they did not havea RCC requirement then they could.

Blue_Lion wrote:

RockJock wrote:I always took standard to mean "like humans". So throw out the Sil.

It would be but to be a master is a PCC and if you are required to take a RCC then you can not take the PCC. If they did not have a RCC requirement then they could.

Not all master psionics are PCCs. To be a human master psionic you end up being a PCC. If you are nonhuman master psionic you end up being an RCC - but I've seen some RCCs that have descriptions of choosing an OCC or having magic determined by OCC, or simply saying they arent required to be the RCC. Iboreal says that most choose to be healers, but they don't have to be. And they can choose to pursue magic.

I don't think its possible to be a human master psionic and pursue a magic that can 'learned' magic (not just intuitively know magic).

So Godlings/Demi-gods, dragons, Silhouette, Iboreal, Bubble-Maker, and Plasm (from Rifter) work; with Plasm (and Dragons?) as the only one that can learn new magic. Each have varying degrees of how many psionics talents or spells they can learn.


Thanks very much guys
Mal

Demi-God and Godling can learn new spells. They have all the abilities of the OCC they choose (if gaining magic from the Godling Power), or, in the case of a Demi-God, they could choose a Magic OCC as their real OCC and then take Super Psi powers as their Godling choice.

The Godling power ALSO grants knowledge of all spells of the characters level, but if you chose Line Walker powers you could learn new spells just fine.

Given my druthers, I'd take (as a demigod) a psychic PCC as my "class", and then pick Line Walker, Shifter, or Technowizard as the Godling Power, as this gets you a lot more versatility in your psi powers, AND all the abilities of the Magic OCC; going the other way around nets you a strictly limited set of Psi powers (you choose them all at level 1 and don't get any more), though going TW as your base class so you can also double as the party Operator/repairman is viable, since you can supplement your Godling-gained Psi Powers with the small selection TWs get.

Later edit:

TW is not on the list of Godling Power acceptable classes. Cant do that.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Demi-God and Godling can learn new spells. They have all the abilities of the OCC they choose (if gaining magic from the Godling Power), or, in the case of a Demi-God, they could choose a Magic OCC as their real OCC and then take Super Psi powers as their Godling choice.

The Godling power ALSO grants knowledge of all spells of the characters level, but if you chose Line Walker powers you could learn new spells just fine.

…snip.

Godlings, during L1 char creation, it is debatable about whether or not the char will be able to learn spells from mages or not. Since the char's magic abilities are derived intuitively. The same can be said of demigods if their access to magic is through the GL power they get.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Demi-God and Godling can learn new spells. They have all the abilities of the OCC they choose (if gaining magic from the Godling Power), or, in the case of a Demi-God, they could choose a Magic OCC as their real OCC and then take Super Psi powers as their Godling choice.

The Godling power ALSO grants knowledge of all spells of the characters level, but if you chose Line Walker powers you could learn new spells just fine.

…snip.

Godlings, during L1 char creation, it is debatable about whether or not the char will be able to learn spells from mages or not. Since the char's magic abilities are derived intuitively. The same can be said of demigods if their access to magic is through the GL power they get.

Disagree entirely.

CB2, Page 16 wrote:10. Magic Powers: The character has all the abilities of a practitioner of magic. Pick one: Ley Line Walker, Shifter, Mystic, or Warlock (or Necromancer). The spells available: All magic spells of the same level as the character's experience. (Cut the rest; you can take it twice to get two sets of magic powers).

That makes it seem like you only have spells of your level. (But you do get ALL of them).

However...

RUE Page 113 Through 116 wrote:Starting on page 113 with the heading "Ley Line Walker O.C.C. Abilities", ability #11, "Learning New Spells":
11. Learning New Spells. Additional spells can be learned or purchased at any time regardless of the character's experience level.

That's an OCC ability of a Ley Line Walker. You get all the abilities of said OCC when picking Godling power 10.

You can, therefore, learn spells whenever you want.

You just happen to ALSO automatically know all spells of your level and lower, which is an H-Double-O-J Huge bonus. Also baller for Warlocks and Mystics, since instead of just learning two or three spells of each level (or only 1 if you are dual element Warlock) you learn them all.

Malleable wrote:Are there any PCC/RCC/OCC Master Psychics that can learn magic - legally created with the Rifts rules, rather than GM allowing combinations prohibited by the rules?

I guess mystics can learn psionics and magic, but are capped in both both their psychic and magic learning.

I know there is a lot of Munchkining out combining PCC/RCCs with OCCs, but I'd like to avoid that if the rules prohibit it.

Thanks,
Mal

A late addition: if you're not opposed to a Dbee (and having all dragons as enemies) the Demon-DragonMage is both a master psychic and full spell caster. Check DBees of NA for details.

All that I said was that it is debatable.

The reasoning for stating this is because I know GMs that rule that they can't learn new spells other then the level up spells as spelled out in the GL power.

Personally, I just let the GM make his or her ruling and follow it for that char.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:All that I said was that it is debatable.

The reasoning for stating this is because I know GMs that rule that they can't learn new spells other then the level up spells as spelled out in the GL power.

Personally, I just let the GM make his or her ruling and follow it for that char.

True.
A GM can choose to limit the player and remove some of the abilities the class is written with.
Rule Zero allows for any GM to remove any ability from any class that they don't wish to have in their game.
That doesn't change what the class has as written though.

(Full disclosure here. As a GM I have used my Rule Zero wand on this and related powers to alter them somewhat. This is because I have slightly altered how magic works in my games due to various other things and this change follows those changes. It also involved a smart **** player who was a rules lawyer who tried to argue that based on the variant spell and custom spell rules in TtGD that they could do anything because there was, somewhere, a spell for it and they would know that spell.)