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I'm curious what people think is the most power type/category of magic?
I am not familiar with all the types out there, but have just picked up the Rifts Book of Magic.

Temporal Magic seems very cool.

Thanks,
Mal

The classic Line Walker has the most versatility. Depending on his spell selection, he can do just about anything that the other classes can do. Very useful.

Shifters have the ability to summon and control monsters from the Rifts. Potentially this is incredibly powerful, but it carries significant risks with it. And it requires lots of prep time to get everything ready. They can also cast the same spells as Line Walkers.

In terms of pure bang-for-your-buck, you don't get much better than Warlocks. They are limited to elemental magic, so they aren't nearly as versatile as other casters. But their spells have low PPE costs, and their higher level magic does loads of damage. River of Lava, Earthquake, Tornado, these are all absolutely brutal spells. You'll be severely restricted in the types of spells you can cast, but the ones you'll have will seriously rock.

Malleable wrote:I'm curious what people think is the most power[ful] type/category of magic?

Are we talking about strictly magic available to each individual O.C.C. or broader categories of magic types?

If O.C.C. allowed magic only, it can not really be compared like that, and you would have to first answer the question of - who is more powerful a 1st level wizard-type who killed a dragon or a 10th level warrior-type who killed a dragon? Magic is just a tool, how you actually use it will determine how "powerful" it is.

If broader categories, say elemental magic (which would include all forms of elemental magic) vs. death magic (which would include necro-magic, bone magic, cannibal magic, etc.), then I would have to say death magic, as a whole, is by far the most powerful. However, again, magic is just a tool, how you actually use it will determine how "powerful" it is.



Cr'Imson

i'd say techno-wizardry. you can do almost anything with techno-wizardry.

Malleable wrote:I'm curious what people think is the most power type/category of magic?
I am not familiar with all the types out there, but have just picked up the Rifts Book of Magic.

Temporal Magic seems very cool.

Thanks,
Mal

For raw direct combat power probably warlock.

For diversity of power ley line walkers are hard to beat.

Shark_Force wrote:i'd say techno-wizardry. you can do almost anything with techno-wizardry.

Technowizardy and biomancy or hell ecowizardy as they are all somewhat similar outcomes are a bit hard to define power wise. As pure spell casters they are not that impressive but what they make is both powerful and very useful and useful to even non casters if designed for it. For a lot of groups having somebody who can equip your party with MDC weapons and recharge them for you is a huge force multiplier.

Depending on time and budget, Runesmith or Nazca Line Magic.

Or with a permissive GM, Technowizardry.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Depending on time and budget, Runesmith or Nazca Line Magic.

Or with a permissive GM, Technowizardry.

Yup the stuff that can get crazy if you have the time/money/resources/preparation is harder to put a finger on power wise.

Give them time to setup and do their work runesmiths nazca line magic can do some crazy stuff but both are not really that strong if adventuring away from home areas. But in their home areas the nazca can literally make cities of magic which is up there on the power scale. Not to mention ley line kaiju.

And along those lines technowizardy and biomancy are very similar. We have a number of examples of both being used in the creation of large complex powerful cities/towns. Lemurians using biomancy/stonewizardy make flying/swimming/floating cities that can teleport around the world and create entire armies of creatures to defend it.

The challenge with grading Techno-Wizardry power is it's very dependent on the GM. It also has the downsides of requiring not-insignificant materiel resources and time. So first one has to pass the idea by a GM, then acquire all the stuff & gems, then invest days / weeks / months building a device.

With out joing forces with another mage probably for power Id rate it
1. Shifter
2. Temporal Wizard
3. Necromancer

Shifters are summoners, plus mage that isnt mystic type, get discounted spells ,easy teleport home, possible extra spells from union, get a familiar. Able to learn temporal spells at lv 7 if I remember correctly.

Temporal wizards have access to high level magic at all levels 1 on to 15, they get temporal magic and standard. Possible to start at level 5 . They also have a real high bonus to spell strength.... meaning their spells are harder to resist.

Necromancer gets death magic(necro, bone..ect.), standard can learn any spell practically. At level 1 you can "summon maggot" for 320 ppe..... a maggot is a greater demon ...it can easily have 4k mdc...say nothing of all its power knowledge ect. You can summon and control hordes of skeltons for munade tasks to putting them in body armor and handing them plasma ejectors. On top of that they can go all bio borg on you too...
Go to market you can get pretty powerful on the cheap, buy a rat trap and some cheese, a cat, a dog, some squid legs, a chicken, if your near the woods some bear claws, deer antlers, deer hooves.
You can climb, fly, have 4 nasty tentacles, run fast, and strike harder. If the gm even leaves a dead dragon laying around for you to find you become insain.... or summon a magot to help kill one.

Now that I type it out switching my opinion and making necromancer #2 instead.

I would be hesitant to say that one type of magic is more powerful than another.
There are several dozen different kinds of magic and each one is (usually) very good at a specific task or two.

The phrase "most powerful" though is so vague as to be almost with out meaning.
Does it mean the widest range of utility?
Does the most damage?
Heals the most?
Most efficient minions?
Farthest travel?
Most instant death spells?
Most mind control spells?

I would say that the 'best magic' is the one that will do what you need.

Mack wrote:The challenge with grading Techno-Wizardry power is it's very dependent on the GM. It also has the downsides of requiring not-insignificant materiel resources and time. So first one has to pass the idea by a GM, then acquire all the stuff & gems, then invest days / weeks / months building a device.

And often times a community activity is needed to really unleash their full power. Like most of the builder type magic flavors with enough time/resources/man power they can do some pretty amazing feats. But toe to toe on a battlefield with only what they bring with them warlocks are hard to beat.

Necros fall a bit into this category as well. They have some more in combat damage spells as a pure combat caster but their strength again is give them time and resources to build their equipment/skeleton/zombie/mummy numbers and they truly show their power.

The last vampire sourcebook had some good fluff on how people were working with necromancers to make sure their loved ones were buried with some anti vampire weaponry so in an emergency they could be animated to attack vampires in large numbers. One skeleton is not that impressive but 20-30 skeletons can be quite effective.

For pure concentrated butt-whoop, tattoo magic is pretty awesome. It's not spell-casting, but it gives you some great combat options real fast. They operate more like superpowers than spells. Once you make your tattoo selections, that's what you're stuck with. Still, they're pretty good.

Warlocks can take out massive numbers of enemies with very little prep time. If you have just finished using the bathroom, and you step outside of the outhouse, and there are a half-dozen Coalition APCs headed your way, Warlock is the only class that really has a fighting chance. They've got the huge area of effect spells that do ginormous damage.

Shifters and Line Walkers can be very powerful if they've got access to ley lines and the right spells. Summon lots of monsters, travel to other worlds, write a lot of scrolls, they can do some really amazing stuff as long as you've got a GM who is willing to give you the right spells, and let you spend a month doing your own thing without interruption. But who lets a line walker write 100 scrolls for each of his spells, in advance? Or lets a shifter summon monsters again and again until he gets the exact ones he wants?

The builder mages are potentially the most powerful, again as long as you can sit back for several months with unlimited resources and a permissive GM. With lots of buddies who practice other types of magic to cast the specialized spells you need, you can create virtually anything. But at that point, you're just a magic item creation factory.



Generally, the point-and-click magic guys are the best for raw combat. The builder types can have the greatest effects, but it's all noncombat time. You need months to make whatever it is that you're gonna use to get the big effects.

Techno wizard necros warlocks (air)with lots of time and a nexus can make a land mine summons a hurricane of maggots and skeltons that animates what it kills and re digs the bones into hiding after it kills.... you only need to be a lv 6 plus in three separate magic schools, a permissive dm, an untold fortune in crystals and more ppe than a nexus provides.....

But honestly any gm that lwts that go down better have foes doing the same ridiculous stuff to you....so good luck living.

WOW! You guys are awesome with all the detailed responses.

cr'imson, I guess I was thinking type/category of magic rather than specific O.C.C., since many categories are limited to O.C.C./R.C.C.s anyways.

eliakon, I know there are a varieties of things characters can be good at. I guess I was going for the players visceral feeling about what they felt was powerful. People will often go for the most damaging or devastating spells; others come up with building powerful effects or armies. All this information is really helpful to me in understanding how magic works in Rifts.

Thanks!

Mal

Malleable wrote:WOW! You guys are awesome with all the detailed responses.

cr'imson, I guess I was thinking type/category of magic rather than specific O.C.C., since many categories are limited to O.C.C./R.C.C.s anyways.

eliakon, I know there are a varieties of things characters can be good at. I guess I was going for the players visceral feeling about what they felt was powerful. People will often go for the most damaging or devastating spells; others come up with building powerful effects or armies. All this information is really helpful to me in understanding how magic works in Rifts.

Thanks!

Mal

Heh, My problem is that I have played to many mages I guess.
By now I can sort of get a feeling for what is going to be 'super powerful' for a particular game (I try to avoid that selection these days)

Pure out of the box insanity though, in official rifts, your top 5 contenders are probably going to be (in no particular order)
Temporal Magic
Biomancy
Elemental Magic
Demon Magic/Blood Magic
Necromancy

With Invocation Magic, as always running away with the versatility prize.

A number of other schools have solid performance in one or two areas, but these branches tend to shine in multiple fields.

If you go Megaversally then Necromancy gets a much better lock on the lead with the addition of more magic's from other lines.

The schools that I really like to point out are Line Drawing, Cloud Magic, Stone Magic, Tattoo Magic, and Conjuring. These forms of magic have unique abilities that are not replicated elsewhere and are quite potent.

if I go Megaversally I would probably change the list...
...but that would involve a lot of "if this game system is in use" or "if that rule is used" so its probably not as helpful.

Here is a list of what magic stuff & spells are in the Rifters.

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=131372

And here's a unabashedly opinioned evaluation of most spells, including several types of magic.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=142445

All power is situational. A necromancer (i.e. "someone with necromancy spells", not necessarily the necromancer OCCs) can create an endless army of "deadly enough" zombies to kill anything if s/he has enough corpses and time. Several spellcasters can essentially print armies if given prep time and a ley-line. The most powerful spell in the world is the Dig spell if what you need is earthworks and/or construction.

As a rule, outside of combat best magic is maker-magic. Things that will dig ditches, build buildings, repair cars, manufacture tools, or otherwise instantly and cheaply do what normally takes time, effort, and money. You use "being helpful" and/or "making money" to buy influence. Bob the NPC is more likely to help you if you fix his car. Blemph the Town Elder will show you the secret passage if you save his village by surrounding it with MDC stone walls before the Simvan Raiders attack.

Inside of combat best magic is support magic. Whether throwing down crowd-control (i.e. "those 4 minions fall into a dimensional pocket and 2 more behind them can't attack for 3 turns") or buffing the warriors of your team. You do more damage through boosting the damage of a team-mate than through blowing up your enemies with magic fire in almost all combats.

Power is an application of force…. so …."it is how you use it" that is key to being powerful.

eliakon,
I appreciate your comment on Line Drawing, Cloud Magic, Stone Magic, Tattoo Magic, and Conjuring.
I was actually thinking the same thing after skimming through some of the stuff posted by DrewKitty.

Not sure which of the above I am drawn to most though. Conjuring seemed on the weak side to be honest. Tattoo Magic is something I like in other games, but not sure if I care for it in Palladium.
Stone, Cloud and Line Drawing Magic I will have to read through carefully.

Thanks,
Mal

Conjuring is a great tool box though, sure they are not droping a balrog solo. But if you need a shovel, a tent, a bucket of water, ect. And you dont have one they are perfect, they are never un-armed.
Also you can make uranium or platinum at will, buy a laser rifle and be gone before it disappears. I tgink they can makr gasses as well so they can make a cloud of posion gas apear out of no where, or oxygen if trapped somewhere for that matter.
The more creative the player the more powerful the conjured stuff can be.

Zamion138 wrote:Conjuring is a great tool box though, sure they are not droping a balrog solo. But if you need a shovel, a tent, a bucket of water, ect. And you dont have one they are perfect, they are never un-armed.
Also you can make uranium or platinum at will, buy a laser rifle and be gone before it disappears. I tgink they can makr gasses as well so they can make a cloud of posion gas apear out of no where, or oxygen if trapped somewhere for that matter.
The more creative the player the more powerful the conjured stuff can be.

Conjuring is an unusual magic option. Not a lot of raw blasting power but solid utility. People who would be really useful to a village/tribe/town out in the wilderness. You need axes he has axes/you need some rope to help lash things together until you can fasten them with permanent fixtures he can do that.

Also for combat if you are creative they can be pretty nasty especially vs more mundane type opponents. Playing the crazy magic science professor mode is fun for doing things like throwing big hunks of lithium into water or other really toxic/highly reactive elements.

Not high powered but if used creatively can be quite useful.

kaid wrote:Necros fall a bit into this category as well. They have some more in combat damage spells as a pure combat caster but their strength again is give them time and resources to build their equipment/skeleton/zombie/mummy numbers and they truly show their power.

boring7 wrote:A necromancer (i.e. "someone with necromancy spells", not necessarily the necromancer OCCs) can create an endless army of "deadly enough" zombies to kill anything if s/he has enough corpses and time. Several spellcasters can essentially print armies if given prep time and a ley-line.

See the Mortificant ritual Zombie Apocalypse (The Rifter #50). Granted, it takes time for the magic to fully wipe out the total world population, but killing off vast amounts of people can be done in far less time than most would think.



Cr'Imson

It's hard to separate classes from types of magic in a lot of cases because many types f magic are limited to specific classes.

That being said, I still find basic incantation magic to be by far the most "powerful" solely because of diversity and ability to combine spells for truly outrageously munchkin stuff. (Invisible, Invisibe-to-Magic & Psionics, Invisible-to-ALL-sensors, + 4 attacks, Impervious to Energy, 300+ MDC of magic armor, huge dodge and parry bonuses, Lightblade-wielding death machine, anyone?).

Shifters, full stop.

Right off the bat you can summon unlimited Boschaka who are inherently loyal to you forever independent of your OCC ability as long as you don't let them gather in groups larger than 12. Use them as guardians at various outposts.

Even if they do mate and stop listening to you they will never attack you. The only thing dangerous to you is their offspring.

You can also summon elementals and through them bd better than any warlock long before WS get access to the good spells. Elementals will never seek revenge, unlike demons.

Dominating many species of lesser demons will be pretty easy if you have a pack of Boschala around under orders to eat them if they betray you. Same policy should also work with keeping fairies in line.

Speaking of powerful mages, were passing gm's over and ill no longer be the gm ....yah finally get to play, I need to make a char, I want to be mystic knight, the occ is approved, what is a good complement race. Was thinking elf or devil man but might want to go more creative. Suggestions? Ill be starting at level 5.....no immortals mdc up to 300ish (if race has 1d4x100 mdc ill just re-roll till under 300....)
We have a cyber knight that is not very paladin-ish, a combat cyborg, rat man robo slammer, and a deep cover cs special forces......
Cant decide if I want to go white rose just to prod tge cyber knight to be better or traditional mystic knight thats not ultra evil but greedy and kinda there to show how combat is done......
Thoughts?

Gate Knights!

White Rose are too shiny. What kinds of creepy spins could be done on them while remaining within alignment restrictions? Could they be racist puritans?

Axelmania wrote:Gate Knights!

White Rose are too shiny. What kinds of creepy spins could be done on them while remaining within alignment restrictions? Could they be racist puritans?

Racist would be a stretch for the class id think, mystic knights good and evil are multi racial groups.
We have an extremely racist cs guy so its not bared from the table.
I dont want to be a gate knight, I dont want powers that require or lead to madhaven. Were in south eastern america above florida mostly, occasionally up to lazlo/new lazlo so New York would probably be out.

Im not a super-fan of any of the Mystic type classes because of the inability to just learn new spells when needed.

I'm also generally a "play hard, play human" kind of guy. Make your character cool and unique by how you play, not your extra-l33t weird class/race combo.

However...

If you're in a game where everyone else is an MDC being, sometimes playing a regular human who isn't jacked in some way (Cyborg, h eavy PA pilot, Robot Pilot, etc) can be frustrating...

My fallback there is Demigod. They are MDC, but not gigantically so, and they get a great benefit that brings you up to par with a party who are already super-mega-ultra-awesome races and stuff (pick an extra ability!).

... so..

Demigod Mystic Knight + Super Psi powers or + another magic OCC (to make up for the fact that you cant just learn spells).

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Im not a super-fan of any of the Mystic type classes because of the inability to just learn new spells when needed.

I'm also generally a "play hard, play human" kind of guy. Make your character cool and unique by how you play, not your extra-l33t weird class/race combo.

However...

If you're in a game where everyone else is an MDC being, sometimes playing a regular human who isn't jacked in some way (Cyborg, h eavy PA pilot, Robot Pilot, etc) can be frustrating...

My fallback there is Demigod. They are MDC, but not gigantically so, and they get a great benefit that brings you up to par with a party who are already super-mega-ultra-awesome races and stuff (pick an extra ability!).

... so..

Demigod Mystic Knight + Super Psi powers or + another magic OCC (to make up for the fact that you cant just learn spells).

Dime-god is not gonna fly, nor godling. Id have better luck with the replacement gm to get a syjuck or star elf/dwarf. It doesnt have to be mdc, I think I might be leaning toward orc or troll.
Half the reason I want to be a DBee is to make the cs guy mad.
I like true atlantean but they seem un-likely to be mystic knights.

I also prefer mages that can learn spells as well but I want to be a magical combat guy that isnt a temporal warrior....gm will give me crap if I go temporal again... played them a few times...ok too often.

Zamion138 wrote:I like true atlantean but they seem un-likely to be mystic knights.

Not all Mystic Knights are evil (edit: nor are all True Atlanteans good).

I also prefer mages that can learn spells as well but I want to be a magical combat guy that isnt a temporal warrior....gm will give me crap if I go temporal again... played them a few times...ok too often.

I really don't understand the thought that other mages cant fight.

Want to play a magical combat guy?

Okay. Roll a Ley Line Walker. Pick a few WPs. Take a TW - pick a H2H skill.

Done.

Your combat ability is now just as good as 90% of the Men-at-arms OCCs.

What exactly does a Temporal Warrior get over a Line Walker? Two extra attacks (IF you are allowed to take the 14 years of servitude option and basically be an evil alignment).

Big whoop. There are three low level spells that give 2 attacks per round (each).

Want to play a "combat caster"... simple as pie. Play a caster. Take a few WPs, and partake in combat. Thats all you've got to do.

You want a hard hitting combat mage?
Lemurian Gene-Mage.
Full stop.
Seriously. You want a 'combat mage' its hard to top a mage that gets a suit of living power armor, that they can cast spells in! Oh, and a warmount. And comes with top of the line magic items, and one of the most insane spell selections in the game (seriously! spells of your level+4?), on top of an insanely good race...

If this class had any more cheese and gravy on it they would need to reclassify it as poutine!

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Im not a super-fan of any of the Mystic type classes because of the inability to just learn new spells when needed.

That's why we have rules for changing OCCS

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:I like true atlantean but they seem un-likely to be mystic knights.

Not all Mystic Knights are evil (edit: nor are all True Atlanteans good).

I also prefer mages that can learn spells as well but I want to be a magical combat guy that isnt a temporal warrior....gm will give me crap if I go temporal again... played them a few times...ok too often.

I really don't understand the thought that other mages cant fight.

Want to play a magical combat guy?

Okay. Roll a Ley Line Walker. Pick a few WPs. Take a TW - pick a H2H skill.

Done.

Your combat ability is now just as good as 90% of the Men-at-arms OCCs.

What exactly does a Temporal Warrior get over a Line Walker? Two extra attacks (IF you are allowed to take the 14 years of servitude option and basically be an evil alignment).

Big whoop. There are three low level spells that give 2 attacks per round (each).

Want to play a "combat caster"... simple as pie. Play a caster. Take a few WPs, and partake in combat. Thats all you've got to do.

I want to play a mystic knight, im aware of how to make a combat mage.
Temporal warriors BTW have other benifits especially if you get the 14 years of service in.
Besides auto dodge, access to temporal magic is their big benifit, which are extremely expensive or hard to find a teacher for.
Massive bumps in some saves.
But that actually isnt my point. I dont want to make a power monger I have a character in mind that is a mystic knight, not a llw walker that learned how to fight.

eliakon wrote:You want a hard hitting combat mage?
Lemurian Gene-Mage.
Full stop.
Seriously. You want a 'combat mage' its hard to top a mage that gets a suit of living power armor, that they can cast spells in! Oh, and a warmount. And comes with top of the line magic items, and one of the most insane spell selections in the game (seriously! spells of your level+4?), on top of an insanely good race...

If this class had any more cheese and gravy on it they would need to reclassify it as poutine!

Yeah thats not gonna fly for a mid power game. Nor is anything from the sea going to happen.

My goal isnt to make the ultimate magic/combat monster . Was just looking for racial suggestions that were interesting

Not to put too fine a point on it, but your own quote says you wanted to play a combative mage who isn't a temporal warrior..

not "i want to play Mystic Knight".

If you want to play a Mystic Knight, play a Mystic Knight. Im firmly on the "play hard, play human" side, but that's just me. If you want to be a True Atlantean - be one. Thy aren't all goody-two-shoes (and we're not even talking the Sunaj, plenty of other Atlanteans aren't good alignments).

Seems like a perfectly viable choice.

(And on a totally tangential note - does anyone else find it odd that Temporal Wizard and Warrior both get stuff if you are allowed to take the longer servitude options that they WOULDNT get if they just leveled from level 1? Thats seriously screwed up.)

If you want to play a combat mage with a mid-range power level then the Smoker from the manhunter book might fit the bill.

Or maybe modify your mage char magic proficiencies (& limitations) from the NB:TtGD book and Rifter 27 to gain the abilities you think your chars needs. Be warned, that most GMs require a matching limitation to go with each prof.


Then there is picking the race of your char. There is at least one Race in AU that has bonuses to magic.

Zamion138 wrote:Speaking of powerful mages, were passing gm's over and ill no longer be the gm ....yah finally get to play, I need to make a char, I want to be mystic knight, the occ is approved, what is a good complement race. Was thinking elf or devil man but might want to go more creative. Suggestions? Ill be starting at level 5.....no immortals mdc up to 300ish (if race has 1d4x100 mdc ill just re-roll till under 300....) ?

Is what I said.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Not to put too fine a point on it, but your own quote says you wanted to play a combative mage who isn't a temporal warrior..

not "i want to play Mystic Knight".

If you want to play a Mystic Knight, play a Mystic Knight. Im firmly on the "play hard, play human" side, but that's just me. If you want to be a True Atlantean - be one. Thy aren't all goody-two-shoes (and we're not even talking the Sunaj, plenty of other Atlanteans aren't good alignments).

Seems like a perfectly viable choice.

(And on a totally tangential note - does anyone else find it odd that Temporal Wizard and Warrior both get stuff if you are allowed to take the longer servitude options that they WOULDNT get if they just leveled from level 1? Thats seriously screwed up.)

Yeah it is kinda sucky as if you have a gm that firmly only lets you start at lv1 you will never get the good stuff.


The reason i dont think atlantean would work is that inless your mom and dad were true atlantean mystic knights you would probably have to go the orphan raised by them route, and not start with your marks of heritage. Mystic knights are a closed group both good and evil/selfish.

Zamion138 wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:Speaking of powerful mages, were passing gm's over and ill no longer be the gm ....yah finally get to play, I need to make a char, I want to be mystic knight, the occ is approved, what is a good complement race. Was thinking elf or devil man but might want to go more creative. Suggestions? Ill be starting at level 5.....no immortals mdc up to 300ish (if race has 1d4x100 mdc ill just re-roll till under 300....) ?

Is what I said.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Not to put too fine a point on it, but your own quote says you wanted to play a combative mage who isn't a temporal warrior..

not "i want to play Mystic Knight".

If you want to play a Mystic Knight, play a Mystic Knight. Im firmly on the "play hard, play human" side, but that's just me. If you want to be a True Atlantean - be one. Thy aren't all goody-two-shoes (and we're not even talking the Sunaj, plenty of other Atlanteans aren't good alignments).

Seems like a perfectly viable choice.

(And on a totally tangential note - does anyone else find it odd that Temporal Wizard and Warrior both get stuff if you are allowed to take the longer servitude options that they WOULDNT get if they just leveled from level 1? Thats seriously screwed up.)

Yeah it is kinda sucky as if you have a gm that firmly only lets you start at lv1 you will never get the good stuff.


The reason i dont think atlantean would work is that inless your mom and dad were true atlantean mystic knights you would probably have to go the orphan raised by them route, and not start with your marks of heritage. Mystic knights are a closed group both good and evil/selfish.

The closed-group stuff really didn't come about until some Rifter articles (and the White Rose cant be that closed, or they wouldnt have nearly the numbers they do).

They take anyone who has the aptitude. And there's not really anything saying that you couldnt have parents who were also Mystic Knights. Atlanteans are scattered all over the Megaverse.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:Speaking of powerful mages, were passing gm's over and ill no longer be the gm ....yah finally get to play, I need to make a char, I want to be mystic knight, the occ is approved, what is a good complement race. Was thinking elf or devil man but might want to go more creative. Suggestions? Ill be starting at level 5.....no immortals mdc up to 300ish (if race has 1d4x100 mdc ill just re-roll till under 300....) ?

Is what I said.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Not to put too fine a point on it, but your own quote says you wanted to play a combative mage who isn't a temporal warrior..

not "i want to play Mystic Knight".

If you want to play a Mystic Knight, play a Mystic Knight. Im firmly on the "play hard, play human" side, but that's just me. If you want to be a True Atlantean - be one. Thy aren't all goody-two-shoes (and we're not even talking the Sunaj, plenty of other Atlanteans aren't good alignments).

Seems like a perfectly viable choice.

(And on a totally tangential note - does anyone else find it odd that Temporal Wizard and Warrior both get stuff if you are allowed to take the longer servitude options that they WOULDNT get if they just leveled from level 1? Thats seriously screwed up.)

Yeah it is kinda sucky as if you have a gm that firmly only lets you start at lv1 you will never get the good stuff.


The reason i dont think atlantean would work is that inless your mom and dad were true atlantean mystic knights you would probably have to go the orphan raised by them route, and not start with your marks of heritage. Mystic knights are a closed group both good and evil/selfish.

The closed-group stuff really didn't come about until some Rifter articles (and the White Rose cant be that closed, or they wouldnt have nearly the numbers they do).

They take anyone who has the aptitude. And there's not really anything saying that you couldnt have parents who were also Mystic Knights. Atlanteans are scattered all over the Megaverse.

Even in Kentucky? (Sarcasm)

Zamion138 wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:Speaking of powerful mages, were passing gm's over and ill no longer be the gm ....yah finally get to play, I need to make a char, I want to be mystic knight, the occ is approved, what is a good complement race. Was thinking elf or devil man but might want to go more creative. Suggestions? Ill be starting at level 5.....no immortals mdc up to 300ish (if race has 1d4x100 mdc ill just re-roll till under 300....) ?

Is what I said.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Not to put too fine a point on it, but your own quote says you wanted to play a combative mage who isn't a temporal warrior..

not "i want to play Mystic Knight".

If you want to play a Mystic Knight, play a Mystic Knight. Im firmly on the "play hard, play human" side, but that's just me. If you want to be a True Atlantean - be one. Thy aren't all goody-two-shoes (and we're not even talking the Sunaj, plenty of other Atlanteans aren't good alignments).

Seems like a perfectly viable choice.

(And on a totally tangential note - does anyone else find it odd that Temporal Wizard and Warrior both get stuff if you are allowed to take the longer servitude options that they WOULDNT get if they just leveled from level 1? Thats seriously screwed up.)

Yeah it is kinda sucky as if you have a gm that firmly only lets you start at lv1 you will never get the good stuff.


The reason i dont think atlantean would work is that inless your mom and dad were true atlantean mystic knights you would probably have to go the orphan raised by them route, and not start with your marks of heritage. Mystic knights are a closed group both good and evil/selfish.

The closed-group stuff really didn't come about until some Rifter articles (and the White Rose cant be that closed, or they wouldnt have nearly the numbers they do).

They take anyone who has the aptitude. And there's not really anything saying that you couldnt have parents who were also Mystic Knights. Atlanteans are scattered all over the Megaverse.

Even in Kentucky? (Sarcasm)

Well, Georgia, at the very least.

And i could see, say, a couple of Clan Ahriman (Sunaj) Atlanteans joining up with the Mystic Knights, playing the long-game, learning the secrets, to take the knowledge back to their clan. Seems very much like them, and an interesting back story. Your character (their son?) maybe doesn't know initially that his parents intend to "betray" the Mystic Knights. Could lead to some interesting stories. Where do your true loyalties lie? Family and Clan or Order of the Mystic Knights?

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:Speaking of powerful mages, were passing gm's over and ill no longer be the gm ....yah finally get to play, I need to make a char, I want to be mystic knight, the occ is approved, what is a good complement race. Was thinking elf or devil man but might want to go more creative. Suggestions? Ill be starting at level 5.....no immortals mdc up to 300ish (if race has 1d4x100 mdc ill just re-roll till under 300....) ?

Is what I said.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Not to put too fine a point on it, but your own quote says you wanted to play a combative mage who isn't a temporal warrior..

not "i want to play Mystic Knight".

If you want to play a Mystic Knight, play a Mystic Knight. Im firmly on the "play hard, play human" side, but that's just me. If you want to be a True Atlantean - be one. Thy aren't all goody-two-shoes (and we're not even talking the Sunaj, plenty of other Atlanteans aren't good alignments).

Seems like a perfectly viable choice.

(And on a totally tangential note - does anyone else find it odd that Temporal Wizard and Warrior both get stuff if you are allowed to take the longer servitude options that they WOULDNT get if they just leveled from level 1? Thats seriously screwed up.)

Yeah it is kinda sucky as if you have a gm that firmly only lets you start at lv1 you will never get the good stuff.


The reason i dont think atlantean would work is that inless your mom and dad were true atlantean mystic knights you would probably have to go the orphan raised by them route, and not start with your marks of heritage. Mystic knights are a closed group both good and evil/selfish.

The closed-group stuff really didn't come about until some Rifter articles (and the White Rose cant be that closed, or they wouldnt have nearly the numbers they do).

They take anyone who has the aptitude. And there's not really anything saying that you couldnt have parents who were also Mystic Knights. Atlanteans are scattered all over the Megaverse.

Even in Kentucky? (Sarcasm)

Well, Georgia, at the very least.

And i could see, say, a couple of Clan Ahriman (Sunaj) Atlanteans joining up with the Mystic Knights, playing the long-game, learning the secrets, to take the knowledge back to their clan. Seems very much like them, and an interesting back story. Your character (their son?) maybe doesn't know initially that his parents intend to "betray" the Mystic Knights. Could lead to some interesting stories. Where do your true loyalties lie? Family and Clan or Order of the Mystic Knights?

That is pretty good, I like it.
Im stealing it.
Well im gonna try to steal it hahaha up to the gm.

I think we've had this conversation about 50 times now, but my answer is pretty much always the same.
Shifters can summon unholy monsters and make deals with them to do damn near anything.
So that by far would be the most powerful but with conditions.

One idea that just came to me is how well would an alterIan (blind warrior woman from atlantis ) do as a mystic Knight? It's not really MDC although if the GM was nice.. you could have the body suit and necklace which do provide minor mdc.

I haven't really played a full caster but have a few in my queue to play. I think Ley Line Walker/Rifter are really powerful in their own, provided they have access to ley lines. Depending on your game, you may not run into ley lines. Then what? Just seems like the class isn't as useful, if we're just going to be using only magical prowess. Being able to learn spells is a good thing though and doesn't hinder you like the mystic classes. Also biggest pool of PPE compared to other classes.

Maybe I've overlooked it, but I kind of wish there was just a straight up sorcerer class. No tether to the ley lines.

I just thought of something.

Techno-Wizardry has the potential for the most power as its based around creating lots of permanent items with little downside. If you were a hard worker you could stockpile goodies like mad, not the least of which would be automatons to do your bidding unquestioningly.

eliakon wrote:You want a hard hitting combat mage?
Lemurian Gene-Mage.
Full stop.
Seriously. You want a 'combat mage' its hard to top a mage that gets a suit of living power armor, that they can cast spells in! Oh, and a warmount. And comes with top of the line magic items, and one of the most insane spell selections in the game (seriously! spells of your level+4?), on top of an insanely good race...

If this class had any more cheese and gravy on it they would need to reclassify it as poutine!

Lemurian biomancers are really good. They get an incredible amount of gear to start with including magically created warbeast that is basically power armor level strength and durability and their choice of bio power armor.

Their pure casting power is not very offense related most biomancer stuff is more oriented to healing/utility/environment manipulation but given their creations have plenty of offensive punch no real need for them to directly cast to many attack spells. One thing to note though the bio power armor stuff could in theory be used by any lemurian magic user and they have many practitioners of the various branches so combat warlock in the barnacle armor that gives you extra PPE reserves is pretty terrifying.

Zamion138 wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:I like true atlantean but they seem un-likely to be mystic knights.

Not all Mystic Knights are evil (edit: nor are all True Atlanteans good).

I also prefer mages that can learn spells as well but I want to be a magical combat guy that isnt a temporal warrior....gm will give me crap if I go temporal again... played them a few times...ok too often.

I really don't understand the thought that other mages cant fight.

Want to play a magical combat guy?

Okay. Roll a Ley Line Walker. Pick a few WPs. Take a TW - pick a H2H skill.

Done.

Your combat ability is now just as good as 90% of the Men-at-arms OCCs.

What exactly does a Temporal Warrior get over a Line Walker? Two extra attacks (IF you are allowed to take the 14 years of servitude option and basically be an evil alignment).

Big whoop. There are three low level spells that give 2 attacks per round (each).

Want to play a "combat caster"... simple as pie. Play a caster. Take a few WPs, and partake in combat. Thats all you've got to do.

I want to play a mystic knight, im aware of how to make a combat mage.
Temporal warriors BTW have other benifits especially if you get the 14 years of service in.
Besides auto dodge, access to temporal magic is their big benifit, which are extremely expensive or hard to find a teacher for.
Massive bumps in some saves.
But that actually isnt my point. I dont want to make a power monger I have a character in mind that is a mystic knight, not a llw walker that learned how to fight.

eliakon wrote:You want a hard hitting combat mage?
Lemurian Gene-Mage.
Full stop.
Seriously. You want a 'combat mage' its hard to top a mage that gets a suit of living power armor, that they can cast spells in! Oh, and a warmount. And comes with top of the line magic items, and one of the most insane spell selections in the game (seriously! spells of your level+4?), on top of an insanely good race...

If this class had any more cheese and gravy on it they would need to reclassify it as poutine!

Yeah thats not gonna fly for a mid power game. Nor is anything from the sea going to happen.

My goal isnt to make the ultimate magic/combat monster . Was just looking for racial suggestions that were interesting

One thing if you like biomancy is the jungle elf option. They don't currently have direct access to the more advanced lemurian warbeasts/power armor but they have all the spell casting ability and still have some really nice armor they can craft. They are bit closer to out of the book TW starter power level for gear.

If you like atlanteans the raw preview of the new atlantean book that just came out the crystal magic users were really neat if you want a decent but not stupidly high power level that is both unique and very flashy.

Ambrosius wrote:I haven't really played a full caster but have a few in my queue to play. I think Ley Line Walker/Rifter are really powerful in their own, provided they have access to ley lines. Depending on your game, you may not run into ley lines. Then what? Just seems like the class isn't as useful, if we're just going to be using only magical prowess. Being able to learn spells is a good thing though and doesn't hinder you like the mystic classes. Also biggest pool of PPE compared to other classes.

Maybe I've overlooked it, but I kind of wish there was just a straight up sorcerer class. No tether to the ley lines.

There is. Ley Line Walker.

You suffer ZERO penalties for not being on a Ley Line. Its all bonuses. And youre still a better spellcaster than most other spellcasters (more to the point, there are none that get any bonuses to spellcasting over LLWs that im aware of, or have the same ability to learn spells (as LLWs are often called out as the only other class (sometimes Shifters) that can "learn a few spells" from restricted spell types like Temporal Magic, Russian Fire Magic, and others (like Ocean Magic).

Yup pretty much if you want to just play a pure up magic user sorcerer type class ley line walker or shifter are both good options. Shifter if you take the bond to god of magic option starts with a lot of spells. You have the option to summon things but its not really necessary a magic bonded shifter does fine just straight up casting.