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Guys, what does a group of heroes need to have a base of operations? Other than a gym, medical room, place for a crime lab, interrogation room, a monitoring room, individual apartments, and kitchen/bar area.

Cells to at least temporarily contain villains until passing them off to police. Garage for any vehicles. Repair/construction area if there are any tech-sorts for constructing and repairing team equipment. Back-up generator room for power (maybe even a primary one to be independent of the grid). Indoor or outdoor practice area to hone their skills and teamwork.

Unless that the group is legally capable of making arrests, having cells in their base may not be a great idea. Best case scenario if they aren't able to make legal arrests is that they could be charged with unlawful confinement (something that most lawyers could use to get a case for a villain dismissed regardless of guilt). Worst case scenario, they give a villain access to their entire base (villains are as notorious for escaping nearly any confinement as heroes are famous for doing the same thing in villain bases). Most heroes usually keep a villain or criminal incapacitated at where they captured them until the police arrive... even if they are not well liked by the police (leaving just as they arrive). Only in the most extreme cases would any hero even consider bringing a villain or criminal back to their (often hidden) bases. Just look at some of the extreme measures that Gramercy Isle uses to keep villains incarcerated... measures that would also have to be considered to keep any villain the group tries to keep in their base.

This was what our group decided on when I ran my last Heroes Unlimited game. We started with the N&SS Agency Creation rules but found the Rifter 37 Base Construction rules much better for this.

E. Facilities: (2,860 points) see list below

• Large Garage (1000 points) This is one garage, large enough for up to four large vehicles like a truck or SUV, and includes all the tools to do reloads, repairs or maintenance on the vehicle.
• Hangar (1000 points) An aircraft hangar for VTOL capable vehicles. Refueling station and all maintenance equipment are included.
• Manufacturing Shop (100 points) This includes a machine shop, paint booth and other tools of the trade to manufacture the parts one needs. For example, automotive parts or armor (to be installed in a garage), construction of weapons, or fabrication of one's super suit.
• Electronics Lab & Clean Room (120 points) This workshop has everything one needs to work on basic electronics (wiring up a bomb, computer repairs, creating a remote control, etc.), as well as a lab for working on microscopic silicon chips and electronics (can make microchips, circuit boards, etc.),
• Forensics Lab (100 points) This facility has everything a hero might need to analyze any evidence he comes across or needs deciphering.
• Medical Room (60 points) This room can act as a simple first aid station, but is also equipped to handle long-term hospital care and emergency medical needs of a person. A doctor is still needed to take care of a patient, so if a hero plans to use this room when he is severely injured, he had better plan to have a doctor to take care of him, as he will probably not be in a position to take care of himself.
• Advanced Computer Station (60 points) This is more than just a laptop or souped up computer; everything in this station is a hacker's dream come true. Monitors cover a wall, multiple computers of the highest caliber, super high-speed Internet access, and the latest in software are primed and ready for the hero to take command of.
• Expansive Library (120 points) What this library lacks in size it makes up for in content. Shelves full of rare books are complimented by an expansive database of books available on computer stations or e-readers. If stocked correctly, this can even be of significant value to a Mystic Study character.
• Vault/Trophy Room (120) This expansive, secure storage area is designed for those items the hero(es) find which are too dangerous to leave in the hands of others and either cannot be destroyed or there is good reason not to destroy yet (sometimes the "good reason" is just to keep it on display as a trophy). There are various levels of security available, from simple alarm-enabled glass cases (the display area/trophy room) to a walk-in vault.
• Training Room (180) This state-of-the-art training room contains all the gear and equipment needed to challenge and test the Heroes abilities, pushing them to their limits and beyond. At it's basic level it's a fancy gym designed for superhumans. But with a flick of some switches and some program activation the area can transform into a "Danger Room", allowing for more enhanced training regimens. There are up to 24 different "booby traps" (see section H, #7) available to train against.

F. Accessibility: Secret Closets (75 points)

• Each bedroom room has a "secret" closet that opens to reveal all the hero's gear. It can be customized so that everything pops out and into place, laying itself out for the quickest and easiest way to get into the gear.

G. Living Conditions: (431 points) See list below

• 16 Spacious Bedrooms with Full Bathrooms (96 points) Sixteen large bedrooms each with a desk, TV and large, comfortable bed. Adjacent to each is a full bathroom with shower.
• 2 Super Bathrooms (20 points) Restroom, shower, hot tub and sauna.
• Deluxe Chef's Kitchen (10 points) Everything one would ever need in a kitchen.
• Lounge (5 points) TV, entertainment center, games, etcetera.
• Gym (50 points) Weights, aerobic machines, cardio machines, etcetera.
• "Survival Bunker" (250 points) Packed with food, water purifier, air recycler, backup generators and able to be self-sufficient for at least six months if necessary.

H. Defense: (600 points) See list below

• Advanced Security System (50 points) The HQ is monitored by cameras, infrared and ultraviolet sensors, as well as motion detectors and an external audio recording system. Any access to the lair requires a pass card, secret code (voice, numeric or both) or a hand/fingerprint scan.
• Booby Traps (10, 50 points) This can range from non-lethal scare tactics such as tear gas, smoke or knockout gas, to lethal repellants such as land mines, acid sprays, fire, nerve gas, machinegun nests or electrified floor plating. Can be set as a trap (line, pressure plate, sensor, etc.) or as the result of failing a Puzzle.
• Automated Defenses (500 points) The hideaway is monitored and protected by a computer (programmed responses only - not an Artificial Intelligence). The system has automated weapons (basically, control of the "Booby Traps" noted above) It not only watches over the facility, but also can alert the heroes to specific problems around the base (by radio, cell phone or pager) and identify exactly what is going on.

I. Personnel or Employees: Other - Receptionist/Secretary (50 points)

• Manning the main foyer/entrance area is a receptionist who works during normal business hours (typically 9-5 unless otherwise noted) to field calls, schedule meetings and visits, and perform minor tasks for Spirit and the Tomorrow Legion. The receptionist can also place mundane orders, receive packages, make calls on the behalf of the members, and other minor tasks as deemed appropriate. Note that occasionally the receptionist may be out sick or on vacation, and during these times a "temp agency" can be contracted to have a temp sent over, if needed or desired.

i thought of that after I wrote interrogation room.

The training room would be over kill, at lease at this point...Hangar, Manufacturing bay, and Electronics Lab & Clean Room would too.

I am trying to figure up everything in terms of funding. Plus, figure up cost of tidal, wind, and solar energy. And figure out how we are going to keep the location a secret. They are operating from outside of Los Angeles, CA. Lot's of camera, criminal, occultists, spies, business moguls, oil wells, etc.

Razorwing wrote:Unless that the group is legally capable of making arrests, having cells in their base may not be a great idea. Best case scenario if they aren't able to make legal arrests is that they could be charged with unlawful confinement (something that most lawyers could use to get a case for a villain dismissed regardless of guilt). Worst case scenario, they give a villain access to their entire base (villains are as notorious for escaping nearly any confinement as heroes are famous for doing the same thing in villain bases). Most heroes usually keep a villain or criminal incapacitated at where they captured them until the police arrive... even if they are not well liked by the police (leaving just as they arrive). Only in the most extreme cases would any hero even consider bringing a villain or criminal back to their (often hidden) bases. Just look at some of the extreme measures that Gramercy Isle uses to keep villains incarcerated... measures that would also have to be considered to keep any villain the group tries to keep in their base.

Considering the lack of legality on the part of much of what heroes do having a containment cell or three isn't that much of a step up from the rest. Super-heroes have a long history of imprisoning super-villains based on the belief the authorities couldn't do it. The JLA even spent some time in their own containment cell after being body-swapped with a group of their nemesis (good thing Flash hadn't gotten around to fixing a flaw in the cell so that the hero in Reverse-Flash's body could use that flaw to shatter the prison and free them).

pblackcrow wrote:Guys, what does a group of heroes need to have a base of operations? Other than a gym, medical room, place for a crime lab, interrogation room, a monitoring room, individual apartments, and kitchen/bar area.

Does a hero group "Need" a base?…no. With cell phones and other modern communication devices the group can go about their daily lives till there is a need for their hero personas.

For a campaign, should the group have a place to meet and chill and other things? Yes. It is a way to keep the chars in one place so when a villain appears they can go there as a group in ""the group's vehicle"", have a safe place to talk about things w/o 'normals' around, and a place for hardware chars to build stuff.
Even with a base, they should choose a bar/club/other as a group hangout for getting away from super-heroing.

pblackcrow wrote:Guys, what does a group of heroes need to have a base of operations? Other than a gym, medical room, place for a crime lab, interrogation room, a monitoring room, individual apartments, and kitchen/bar area.

Rifter 37 has rules for creating a lair/base for HU2

pblackcrow wrote:Guys, what does a group of heroes need to have a base of operations? Other than a gym, medical room, place for a crime lab, interrogation room, a monitoring room, individual apartments, and kitchen/bar area.

I would say the first question is
What kind of heroes are we talking about? The range of team builds in superhero games is simply staggering. What an international super team of big letter four color heroes is going to need is going to be vastly different than the needs of a couple of friends who are dealing with street level crime part time as vigilante's in Tulsa Oklahoma.

A smallish team may not even have a base as such. Or if they do it might be something as simple as an apartment or office that they have rented under a cover identity that is used to change into their costumes and keep some gear at.

If you do have a base the set up of what you will want in it will vary based on what skills you have available. If no one on the team has any sort of skills for analyzing evidence than no matter who cool your crime lab it is just a waste of resources. While if you have a mage on the team you will probably have some rooms set up for stuff like spell casting/rituals/summonings/what ever. Some sleeping quarters and food will be good, and a security room will be pretty standard.

Interrogation and cells will be a 'to taste' thing, since not every team is going to be interrogating people, and if they do they may not be willing to do it at their base. The classic example here is Batman who does almost all of his interrogations in the field, where as a team that is working with the law will be doing any interrogations at a station house where lawyers can be present and it can all be taped and such.

You will probably want at least a couple of safes (I would say 2 or 3) one for personal possessions, one for evidence, and one for weaponry and gear.

Medical can run from "A first aid kit on the wall" to "A full level 3 ICU with trauma teams and multiple specialty surgeons on standby."

Reference materials can be useful.
A large or old team may have a museum of previous exploits/members.
A public team will probably want a 'public section' for PR... which can range from "A nice lobby with a security guard that stops anyone from going past" to "Full public tours hourly M-F from 9-4 Saturdays until 6"
A Garage/Hanger for vehicles can be useful
If the technology and budget is available some sort of danger room would be useful
If team members use firearms you might want a shooting range
A (large) pool is useful.
Workshops for repairs or gizmo type characters
Computers, servers for example
Communications gear (again from a telephone line to satellite hook ups and multiple T-1 lines)

I've always found it puzzling that in the Heroes Unlimited setting, where mutants, aliens, magicians and self-aware robots are not only real but known to exist to the common person (and not mere urban legends like UFOs and such are generally seen as in our world)... that there have been ABSOLUTELY NO LAWS PASSED to deal with the emergence of super humans. If some of the passages are to be believed, super humans have been a known phenomena since WW2 at the very least (and much more likely since before antiquity)... yet the world of Heroes Unlimited treats the emergence of these individuals in ever increasing numbers as if they don't exist... as if law makers in the setting were acting as if they were in our reality where such beings don't exist.

If super humans emerged in our world, you know that various governments would be quick to draft up new laws on how these individuals are allowed to act... laws that would likely see challenges in courts as to whether or not they violate the rights such empowered citizens are supposed to have. The definition of what is "human" would very likely be expanded (or sharply curtailed) to include (or exclude) aliens and other sentient beings (robots, animals and such). While the utter lack of such laws (fair or not) is supposed to reflect the real world... would the real world lack such laws if super humans walked among us?

Yes, some of the more repressive countries would try to enslave such individuals... and even some of the more democratic ones would try to find ways to do the same... but that is what is most likely to happen in a world where super humans are real. That some of these individuals would try to uphold the laws (while technically breaking them) would also play a factor in what laws were created... such as the Citizen Crime Act from City of Heroes that gave heroes that worked along side law enforcement the same powers of arrest that police have. That others use their powers for personal gain or even criminal activity would also merit consideration in the laws of a country (and likely more than one attempt to brand all super humans as criminals simply for being super human). Yes, powerful organizations may try to stall and prevent some laws from being passed... especially laws that would turn their patents into people with protections... but that is still admitting that super humans exist.

Is it really plausible that in a world filled (to one extent or another) with super humans that no laws would be made to deal with such individuals... on either side of the fence (for or against them)?

eliakon wrote:What kind of heroes are we talking about?

Happy you asked that...I suppose it is more of a Justice League Dark type of team. Only, instead of swam thing you, have Eco (Eric Di'Medichi) who is basically a cross between an stone master and an earth warlock. There's his wife, Envira (Angelina Fortunato) who basically is Storm from X-Men, but unlike Storm she can change into mist. Jayson Di'Medichi, Mage, who is kin to Eco. Jayson's his boyfriend Darrack (Draco Draconis) a Draconid who is also a Mage. And yes Jayson knows. Alex (Alexandros), the detective/martial artist, who is the half brother Darius through their ancient True Atlantean mother, Circe. Alex's love interest is Spectoria (Amy Fortunato) and she can pass through objects, and can control people with a lower ME, yes she is kin to Envira. And Duncan Sinclare, who's basically an Atlantean undead slayer and werewolf hunter, and from a different clans, but distant cousins of Alex through Alex's father and his mother. Finally, there's Edward Livingstone, the wampyr, who is the apprentices/partner of Duncan.

Razorwing wrote:I've always found it puzzling that in the Heroes Unlimited setting, where mutants, aliens, magicians and self-aware robots are not only real but known to exist to the common person (and not mere urban legends like UFOs and such are generally seen as in our world)... that there have been ABSOLUTELY NO LAWS PASSED to deal with the emergence of super humans. If some of the passages are to be believed, super humans have been a known phenomena since WW2 at the very least (and much more likely since before antiquity)... yet the world of Heroes Unlimited treats the emergence of these individuals in ever increasing numbers as if they don't exist... as if law makers in the setting were acting as if they were in our reality where such beings don't exist.

If super humans emerged in our world, you know that various governments would be quick to draft up new laws on how these individuals are allowed to act... laws that would likely see challenges in courts as to whether or not they violate the rights such empowered citizens are supposed to have. The definition of what is "human" would very likely be expanded (or sharply curtailed) to include (or exclude) aliens and other sentient beings (robots, animals and such). While the utter lack of such laws (fair or not) is supposed to reflect the real world... would the real world lack such laws if super humans walked among us?

Yes, some of the more repressive countries would try to enslave such individuals... and even some of the more democratic ones would try to find ways to do the same... but that is what is most likely to happen in a world where super humans are real. That some of these individuals would try to uphold the laws (while technically breaking them) would also play a factor in what laws were created... such as the Citizen Crime Act from City of Heroes that gave heroes that worked along side law enforcement the same powers of arrest that police have. That others use their powers for personal gain or even criminal activity would also merit consideration in the laws of a country (and likely more than one attempt to brand all super humans as criminals simply for being super human). Yes, powerful organizations may try to stall and prevent some laws from being passed... especially laws that would turn their patents into people with protections... but that is still admitting that super humans exist.

Is it really plausible that in a world filled (to one extent or another) with super humans that no laws would be made to deal with such individuals... on either side of the fence (for or against them)?

There are a few reasons for the "no laws passed" though
1) the first is that the lack of laws on super powers is a staple trope of the genre so the lack of laws is not really all that surprising (Marvel's 'Mutant Registration Act' in the 80s for instance was the first example of a super power law in comics in some 50 odd years!

2) the authors of the game are really REALLY not very legal savey in the slightest. Note the pretty absurd laws, legal precedents and justifications that have been used in the various books and you can tell that the various authors have, at best, watched some police dramas.

3) the HU books were originally not a world. Prior to the Century Station book the entire goal of the books was to make the game as totally generic as possible so that a GM could run their game with a minimum of fuss. Setting up a legal framework doesn't really help with that

4) even if you DO make a legal framework there isn't a lot you can really DO with it. It gets really hard to come up with laws on super powers that both make sense, allow for a game where you can have PCs do interesting things, are comprehensive enough that the don't feel slap dash, are rugged enough that players will not be loopholing them left and right, are compact enough that they don't take up to much precious page count AND are simple enough that non lawyer gamers will get them.

eliakon wrote:even if you DO make a legal framework there isn't a lot you can really DO with it. It gets really hard to come up with laws on super powers that both make sense, allow for a game where you can have PCs do interesting things, are comprehensive enough that the don't feel slap dash, are rugged enough that players will not be loopholing them left and right, are compact enough that they don't take up to much precious page count AND are simple enough that non lawyer gamers will get them.

Actually you can do a lot with it but it becomes a central factor to the campaign. Sure, set up segregation areas for aliens and start your campaign from a prison for superbeings. It can work.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:

eliakon wrote:even if you DO make a legal framework there isn't a lot you can really DO with it. It gets really hard to come up with laws on super powers that both make sense, allow for a game where you can have PCs do interesting things, are comprehensive enough that the don't feel slap dash, are rugged enough that players will not be loopholing them left and right, are compact enough that they don't take up to much precious page count AND are simple enough that non lawyer gamers will get them.

Actually you can do a lot with it but it becomes a central factor to the campaign. Sure, set up segregation areas for aliens and start your campaign from a prison for superbeings. It can work.

It sounds like the 'you' that you (Stone Gargoyle) are referring to is 'you the players/GM', in which case i would agree. However the 'you' eliakon is referring to is the publisher/author of the settings/rule books, and in that his points are quite accurate, in fact for the players/GMs to be able to run a campaign around such as suggested the specifics of the internal law in-setting would need to be vague.

13eowulf wrote:

pblackcrow wrote:Guys, what does a group of heroes need to have a base of operations? Other than a gym, medical room, place for a crime lab, interrogation room, a monitoring room, individual apartments, and kitchen/bar area.

Rifter 37 has rules for creating a lair/base for HU2

Thanks for the tip about Rifter 37. I just picked up a copy from DTRPG for under 5 bucks!

Both ends of the spectrum can be fun. By that I mean I've played in the Avengers/JLA type game where the players are in the public eye, and their home/HQ has everything you an imagine, but I've also played a more Punisher type game where everyone meets in a highly secure basement under a warehouse.

As for the legal issues I tend to keep that as a minor part of my game. Unless we are playing an underground type game I go on the basis that their is some sort of federal program in the US that licenses heroes. I'm thinking sort of a Nick Fury knowing who Spider Man, or the X-Men really are, even if they are not "publicly known". I don't want to play a legal simulator.

Fabricator Inc anyone?

A bunker helps also sometimes .

It depends on the campain and the base of operation can be expanded or found, ...

Razorwing wrote:...If super humans emerged in our world, you know that various governments would be quick to draft up new laws on how these individuals are allowed to act... laws that would likely see challenges in courts as to whether or not they violate the rights such empowered citizens are supposed to have. The definition of what is "human" would very likely be expanded (or sharply curtailed) to include (or exclude) aliens and other sentient beings (robots, animals and such). While the utter lack of such laws (fair or not) is supposed to reflect the real world... would the real world lack such laws if super humans walked among us?...

IIRC, in Mutant Underground it states that mutant animals are considered property. I think the same would hold true for robots, but I don't recall of any passage saying such.

Razorwing wrote:Unless that the group is legally capable of making arrests,.

Citizen's arrest are a thing.....

Sir_Spirit wrote:

Razorwing wrote:Unless that the group is legally capable of making arrests,.

Citizen's arrest are a thing.....

Though it is pretty limited, at least in real life
There are some pretty strict requirements, such as the crime must occur in the presence of the individual, the individual must identify themselves (no masked vigilantes!),the person must turn them directly over to the police, the person must appear in court, there is no investigative power (you can not track them to their lair), you must arrest them for a specific crime (felony arson for example) and there is a strict liability of fact. So if it turns out that it was instead misdemeanor arson now you are liable for false arrest and kidnapping...

And it is not even legal in every state.

But, again, a specific game could make the law more vague and open if it wants to encourage vigilantism.

On legal matters. You might look into the setting of Worm and how it was handled. I really enjoyed that btw. It's a long read, but its' good. The setup and explanation of how things work happens fairly early. You can also look into the Wiki for it.

pblackcrow wrote:Guys, what does a group of heroes need to have a base of operations? Other than a gym, medical room, place for a crime lab, interrogation room, a monitoring room, individual apartments, and kitchen/bar area.

Kind of depends on your group and your play style. Are they Heroes or Villains? Are they operating with the support of the community (Avengers/JLA style) or from the Shadows (much of the Defenders history, Runaways and the X-men type arrangement)? Where is this base? Off the coast of Miami and under water, hidden beneath an abandoned gas station on a desert highway, on the moon or the top of a sky scraper?

For example, in our game we had the New York Mythic League, Circa 1919 to 1937. The top five floors of a New York City sky scrapper. Funded by the wealthiest two members of the team, featured a state of the art (for the 1920s) tech/crime lab, a dirigible dock at the top floor, smoking lounge and private dinner club for entertaining VIPs.

Or the Los Angles Ark Angles, Circa 2003 to 2025+. Set on a fictional island off the coast of LA, had all of the basics, a super computer, robot staff, defensive emplacements, aircraft runway/helipad, full spa, Olympic class swimming pool, power armor lab, Virtual Reality holo room.

How about a Clyde's used boats, Circa 1975 to 1993 right on the water in Miami, where a group of villains laired. Featuring stolen boats, drug cutting lab, paint shop, under sea tunnel to a off shore villain hiding spot, arsenal, mini-sub dock and storage space, with a lock up for kidnap victims. Never did find out who Clyde was

Also, Nightbane's book Between the Shadows has rules to make an Astral Realm which might also be a cool headquarters.

I always felt that heroes need a back up HQ in the event the main building HQ was corrupt of over run. A mobile base or HQ. a smaller secret satellite location. A mountain top, space station or under ocean secret location. A place where you can meet when all else fails that lets you run things and over run the main HQ in the event that things get really bad.