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Hello all! How to capture a Dominator Starfortress?
I'm looking for actually viable sounding methods that a GM would have trouble viewing as simply ridiculous, which would provoke him to punish you. In other words, things that 'should' work.

For example, a method might involve this:
1. Open a dimensional rift onto the Dominator Starfortress. You could possibly open the rift inside, rifting seems more viable than simply teleporting, for distance purposes and circumnavigating other deterrents. (Oh, bring tons of PPE using some sort of storage or summon method.)

2. Get inside. If you didnt rift inside of the Starfortress itself, you now need to fight to get inside somehow.
3. Locate and engage the Dominator.

4. Subdue the Dominator. Easy, right? (Wall of Defense, Carpet of Adhesion, Mystic Net, TW Ice Grenades, other...)

5. Figure out how to not die when you kill him, he kills himself, or the ship kills everyone. (Compel his information with magic provides good short sighted solutions, but the GM may screw you still, or in the long term. I would say mind bond, but they have a natural mind block.)

6. Keep the Dominator alive and subdued forever. (Or figure out how mind waves work. This is in order to not get blown up with the ship, and to not get otherwise jammed by the GM.)

In this method there are indeed many things that could go wrong, however, it seems like a perfectly viable method, seeing as no anti-rift portal defenses, or other methods to break the practical application of some stupid and awesome magics.

Is there an easier way?
How would you do it..?

If it was my game I would not give you an easy way. At best the construct would self destruct. If you did manage to capture the Dominator alive you would run into his 2-3 friends coming to check on him.....

Step 0.1 Gather all the information about past attempts to try to capture a star-fortress to see where they went wrong…if documented to plan a way to capture it.

In other words the above plans presume that the chars have full knowledge of the star-fortress' defenses. Where the chars would have to be working from hearsay about past attempts and winging it while doing it.

While the above is a good outline of a plan based on the GM/OOC knowledge presented in the book it is not a plan that characters would come up with, it lacks the numbers of cannon fodd…personal & equipment needed for it within it.

Who knows if the ship can be controlled by anyone other then a Dominator?

There is also the issue of the galactic powers wanting to take it from you for their own use.

You are talking a GIANT ship. You are basically in the Dominator's environment. This is an environ that outsiders don't really thrive in. How do you even find the Dominator on the ship? How do you take out his automated internal defenses? What happens when you think you have him cornered and he drops force fields and changes the gravity in the section you are in? Or whatever else he has up his sleeve?

The ancient technology of the Dominators is superior to everything current designers can create. DB 2 pg.36
Dominators have a near magic process of turning energy into matter (similar to a nightlord but done through technology instead of magic). The Boiaw compressed in a temporal stasis bioreactor powers the whole ship including three 1d6x1,000,000 cannons. With that much energy available and the ability to turn it into matter I think they could create robots/androids at will as needed. The ship itself regenerates so that turret you just blew up is coming back online soon and they could just science/magic more if they felt like it was needed. As far as I know Dominators have the most advanced sensors too so sneaking in even via rift unnoticed doesn't really seem like an option to me. There is also Temporal Shielding (save vs magic 17) that confuses people/AI and makes coordinated timed attacks near impossible.

While mind block is active (always for them) the Dominator cannot be influenced. No charm, domination, mind bond, empathic transmission, etc is going to work on them as that would be influencing them.

Soon as the Dominator dies the Boiaw commits suicide gleefully which destroys everything in 100 mile radius.

I agree with drewkitty that you need a couple fleets to sacrifice. Trying to take over a Starfortress as just the player group is laughable to me.

In my opinion capturing a Starfortress is as near impossible as capturing a pantheon to command. As a GM I would let you try your ideas just be ready to make a new character.

Sorry you weren't looking for it is impossible I'll try to help out instead.

If you knew about Gene-Techs they'd have the most knowledge about Dominators and their ships as they are the oldest elder races still around I know of.

You might be able to convince them to help with the right incentive (they are obsessed with experimentation, study and torture) like being able to modify or clone an long time rival.

Gene-Tech would have the highest chance to duplicate the specific brain waves of that Dominator in my opinion.

How to deal with the planet ship inside or outside would have to be a lot of people willing to die wave after wave all of whom I assume think they are dieing to destroy it instead of installing a new captain.

RockJock wrote:If it was my game I would not give you an easy way. At best the construct would self destruct. If you did manage to capture the Dominator alive you would run into his 2-3 friends coming to check on him.....

Thank you for that insight. But you did not answer my question, please keep to the spirit of the thread. I need to know how it could be done, not how impossible it is- I think we are all aware of how impossible it is, though if nothing of my opening plan, or process conveyed that, then I apologize.
I do realize people that this is as insane as attacking the death star, but that's what people do. Trust me, my GM has plenty of people telling my character how insane all of my ideas are all of the time. Still kicking, still killing dragons. Metaphor for killing the impossible by the way.

In that spirit: Dominators don't have friends. The rest of the galaxies can kiss my bum. And we can just fight the other Dominators too if they have issue, which is a big if- seeing as how solitary they are. In the spirit of the question, it can be relatively assumed that I have no problem cutting down the majority of the galaxy without a greater alien intelligence bamfing in, and I can still survive any single action and bamf away myself.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Step 0.1 Gather all the information about past attempts to try to capture a star-fortress to see where they went wrong…if documented to plan a way to capture it.

In other words the above plans presume that the chars have full knowledge of the star-fortress' defenses. Where the chars would have to be working from hearsay about past attempts and winging it while doing it.

While the above is a good outline of a plan based on the GM/OOC knowledge presented in the book it is not a plan that characters would come up with, it lacks the numbers of cannon fodd…personal & equipment needed for it within it.

Thanks Drewkitty! I appreciate this insight actually. I would not flawlessly implements this sort of plan in any game without the background to be able to come up with the plan, and I realize where you are coming from, this is a pretty big concern in games concerning meta knowledge, and I like to think that I don't play that way. I was actually looking for hypothetical ideas, since I don't expect this sort of thing will ever happen really, with the idea that the hypothetical methods need to be GM passable.
In my current game I have a lot of research going on with star elves and high elves both, as well as my character being an archaelogist who has studied ancient elven races/cultures/ histories and lores to the point where I actually know the progenitor elder race of 'all' elves. But suffice to say that there is plenty of background, and this isnt like a game that has run for a single session and the level 8 or below characters decided to go kill a dominator one day. We are quite... proficient.

RockJock wrote:Who knows if the ship can be controlled by anyone other then a Dominator?

There is also the issue of the galactic powers wanting to take it from you for their own use.

You are talking a GIANT ship. You are basically in the Dominator's environment. This is an environ that outsiders don't really thrive in. How do you even find the Dominator on the ship? How do you take out his automated internal defenses? What happens when you think you have him cornered and he drops force fields and changes the gravity in the section you are in? Or whatever else he has up his sleeve?

Again, you are coming up with all of the ways that the GM would combat 'me', not the other way around. I understand all of these things make perfect sense, though I would argue back that Dominators don't use magic, they use technology on the levels of magic. And I would argue that magic should 'never' be underestimated- in case you were not aware of some of the things it can do. Though I suspect that if you were my GM YES, you could certainly come up with anything to combat anything that I could ever do. This seems like it would be a bad game, and that's not the advice that I'm looking for. I've always got plenty of people telling me what I cant do.

VIsgar wrote:The ancient technology of the Dominators is superior to everything current designers can create. DB 2 pg.36
Dominators have a near magic process of turning energy into matter (similar to a nightlord but done through technology instead of magic). The Boiaw compressed in a temporal stasis bioreactor powers the whole ship including three 1d6x1,000,000 cannons. With that much energy available and the ability to turn it into matter I think they could create robots/androids at will as needed. The ship itself regenerates so that turret you just blew up is coming back online soon and they could just science/magic more if they felt like it was needed. As far as I know Dominators have the most advanced sensors too so sneaking in even via rift unnoticed doesn't really seem like an option to me. There is also Temporal Shielding (save vs magic 17) that confuses people/AI and makes coordinated timed attacks near impossible.

While mind block is active (always for them) the Dominator cannot be influenced. No charm, domination, mind bond, empathic transmission, etc is going to work on them as that would be influencing them.

Soon as the Dominator dies the Boiaw commits suicide gleefully which destroys everything in 100 mile radius.

I agree with drewkitty that you need a couple fleets to sacrifice. Trying to take over a Starfortress as just the player group is laughable to me.

In my opinion capturing a Starfortress is as near impossible as capturing a pantheon to command. As a GM I would let you try your ideas just be ready to make a new character.

As far as I'm aware, sensors can not stop rifting. Sure something could go wrong, but that's not what I asked.
We don't want to blow up the ship, we want to keep it.
We have a team, and coordinating a large scale assault may or may not be part of the plan- but this thread is for the plan, not how impossible it would be.
As far as I am aware, mind block does not prevent magical influence. As a matter of fact, the listing under sensitive powers specifically states that it does not protect you from magic.
The suicide of the Dominator and the Boiaw could 'try' to destroy everything within 100 miles, but that does not mean that they succeed... grasshopper.
Why would I want to capture a pantheon, why involve gods like that, we are perfectly fine without divine influence. Perhaps this is a better question posed in another thread? If I had a pantheon would capturing a star fortress be easier?

I asked about plans and ways to do it people, come on. All i received was negativity!

Thanks for your insight about Gene-tech though Visgar, that sounds like it could be promising- though I'm not sure how efficient trusting those guys would be for the plan. There are certainly other Elder races around as well, even ones not listed in the book, perhaps some of them have a problem and would like to get back and the dominators, but simply dont have space samurai and dark jedi sorcerers supreme to help them.

Silver77 wrote:

VIsgar wrote:The ancient technology of the Dominators is superior to everything current designers can create. DB 2 pg.36
Dominators have a near magic process of turning energy into matter (similar to a nightlord but done through technology instead of magic). The Boiaw compressed in a temporal stasis bioreactor powers the whole ship including three 1d6x1,000,000 cannons. With that much energy available and the ability to turn it into matter I think they could create robots/androids at will as needed. The ship itself regenerates so that turret you just blew up is coming back online soon and they could just science/magic more if they felt like it was needed. As far as I know Dominators have the most advanced sensors too so sneaking in even via rift unnoticed doesn't really seem like an option to me. There is also Temporal Shielding (save vs magic 17) that confuses people/AI and makes coordinated timed attacks near impossible.

While mind block is active (always for them) the Dominator cannot be influenced. No charm, domination, mind bond, empathic transmission, etc is going to work on them as that would be influencing them.

Soon as the Dominator dies the Boiaw commits suicide gleefully which destroys everything in 100 mile radius.

I agree with drewkitty that you need a couple fleets to sacrifice. Trying to take over a Starfortress as just the player group is laughable to me.

In my opinion capturing a Starfortress is as near impossible as capturing a pantheon to command. As a GM I would let you try your ideas just be ready to make a new character.

As far as I'm aware, sensors can not stop rifting. Sure something could go wrong, but that's not what I asked.
We don't want to blow up the ship, we want to keep it.
We have a team, and coordinating a large scale assault may or may not be part of the plan- but this thread is for the plan, not how impossible it would be.
As far as I am aware, mind block does not prevent magical influence. As a matter of fact, the listing under sensitive powers specifically states that it does not protect you from magic.
The suicide of the Dominator and the Boiaw could 'try' to destroy everything within 100 miles, but that does not mean that they succeed... grasshopper.
Why would I want to capture a pantheon, why involve gods like that, we are perfectly fine without divine influence. Perhaps this is a better question posed in another thread? If I had a pantheon would capturing a star fortress be easier?

I asked about plans and ways to do it people, come on. All i received was negativity!

Thanks for your insight about Gene-tech though Visgar, that sounds like it could be promising- though I'm not sure how efficient trusting those guys would be for the plan. There are certainly other Elder races around as well, even ones not listed in the book, perhaps some of them have a problem and would like to get back and the dominators, but simply dont have space samurai and dark jedi sorcerers supreme to help them.

I've never heard of sensors stopping rifts either. I was trying to point out that sneaking wouldn't really be a viable against the best sensors ever made but that's just an opinion.

When talking about a pantheon I was just trying to compare the absurdity between both ideas.

If the only thing in the megaverse to give you pause is a greater alien intelligence what is your race, class, level and main skills? With the power level you alluded to being (just shy of Thoth) any genetechs wouldn't hold a candle to you or might try to just gain your favor for being one of the most powerful beings in the megaverse.
(reminds me of another poster V-Origin)

DB 13 pg 50
Self-Destruct: The Dominators refuse to let any part of their Fortresses fall into enemy hands. The stasis chamber that contains the Boiaw is tied directly into the brain waves of the Dominator onboard. If he is killed, then the stasis chamber collapses, and the Boiaw inside, now free from its millennia of suffering, gleefully commits suicide by blowing the ship to ribbons. This explosion inflicts enough damage to destroy everything within a one hundred mile radius (160 km). If the battle took place over a planet, which is most likely, then 1D4xl0 giant pieces of flaming debris rain down, each impacting with the same force as a mass driver, the planet being saved from the Dominator only to suffer lasting ecological damage.
(That is why I tried to recommend getting the best geneticists I know of because the authors did not intend players to be able to take this over and built-in fail safes to prevent it)

Game Masters Guide pg 90 & 95 Mind Block
This is the ability to completely close or block oneself from all psychic/mental emanations. When intentionally closed to supernatural or psychic forces the character can not sense anything, can not use psychic abilities, nor be influenced by others. A Mind Block will prevent penetration of Telepathy, Empathy, Hypnotic Suggestion, and Empathic Transmission. It can be an invaluable protective mask when dealing with malevolent psychic forces. Adds a bonus of+1 to save vs all psychic and mental attacks.
(Mentions Influence which I always took to be any influence but I could be using the power incorrectly after reading RUE's version)

I hope you're not level 8 after one session but to each his own.

If you have temporal raider or wizard level 13+ they can learn the spell The Black Abyss Dimensional Pocket (Wormwood db 1 pg 141-142) which could potentially imprison a Dominator for years.

VIsgar wrote:I've never heard of sensors stopping rifts either. I was trying to point out that sneaking wouldn't really be a viable against the best sensors ever made but that's just an opinion.

When talking about a pantheon I was just trying to compare the absurdity between both ideas.

If the only thing in the megaverse to give you pause is a greater alien intelligence what is your race, class, level and main skills? With the power level you alluded to being (just shy of Thoth) any genetechs wouldn't hold a candle to you or might try to just gain your favor for being one of the most powerful beings in the megaverse.
(reminds me of another poster V-Origin)

DB 13 pg 50
Self-Destruct: The Dominators refuse to let any part of their Fortresses fall into enemy hands. The stasis chamber that contains the Boiaw is tied directly into the brain waves of the Dominator onboard. If he is killed, then the stasis chamber collapses, and the Boiaw inside, now free from its millennia of suffering, gleefully commits suicide by blowing the ship to ribbons. This explosion inflicts enough damage to destroy everything within a one hundred mile radius (160 km). If the battle took place over a planet, which is most likely, then 1D4xl0 giant pieces of flaming debris rain down, each impacting with the same force as a mass driver, the planet being saved from the Dominator only to suffer lasting ecological damage.
(That is why I tried to recommend getting the best geneticists I know of because the authors did not intend players to be able to take this over and built-in fail safes to prevent it)

Game Masters Guide pg 90 & 95 Mind Block
This is the ability to completely close or block oneself from all psychic/mental emanations. When intentionally closed to supernatural or psychic forces the character can not sense anything, can not use psychic abilities, nor be influenced by others. A Mind Block will prevent penetration of Telepathy, Empathy, Hypnotic Suggestion, and Empathic Transmission. It can be an invaluable protective mask when dealing with malevolent psychic forces. Adds a bonus of+1 to save vs all psychic and mental attacks.
(Mentions Influence which I always took to be any influence but I could be using the power incorrectly after reading RUE's version)

I hope you're not level 8 after one session but to each his own.

If you have temporal raider or wizard level 13+ they can learn the spell The Black Abyss Dimensional Pocket (Wormwood db 1 pg 141-142) which could potentially imprison a Dominator for years.

Ok, I see your point. Sneaking would be relatively difficult for certain, but not impossible. What I seem to be gathering is that magic is the only practical way of defeating these things. Most magic is nicely vague in their effects, and blanketing, which is nice for these sorts of purposes. Perhaps a nice cache of technowizardry items would be called for, in order to assure the ability of the mundanes in the party 'keeping up'?
Hey maybe you will get lucky, and the Dominator would give you a video call to gloat before attacking? Or you could provoke one from him? That's a nice way to know exactly where you want to open your rift to, in order to avoid all sneaking?

In my personal opinion, and I'm sure that many people would have disagreements, I'd rather face alien intelligences and dominators than gods in rifts. This is mostly just because of the deific powers available to them. More or less- everyone else has to play by the rules.

My character is a little bit off topic for the conversation, but I don't mind sharing that my strength is drawn from my charisma and my magic.


The Boiaw inflicts damage, so if you can make yourself immune to damage then you will be fine. Yes, cheeky, but come on- I need plans, not negativity mate.

This game is 2 years old, and we are only level nine. Once a week sessions too. We gained every experience point the way the system dictates- which yes, is ridiculously slow. But do not let our level deceive you. I can wipe the floor with most things listed above level fourteen in the books. There is also no way that most of those npcs can actually even gain experience that way, so re-evaluation must and does happen in our game. (not in a way that makes things easier for us, just in a way that clarifies how each of those 1,000 mega demon things could not possibly have undergone drastic personal and enemy related enlightenment in various ways-- hundreds of times. In a way that scales for each level, after level 10.. hundreds of times.)
Level has very little to do with actual power in rifts unless you are playing something with a special ability built around that. If you are smart, and knowledgeable, then it's not even required. Knowledge is power.

I like your dimensional pocket idea!! I always love learning that kind of thing. Hmm.. you don't think being in another dimension wouldn't disrupt the brain waves?
The chances of you finding that spell are much less likely than finding a friendly Dominator, but hey, I like how awesome it is.

I think race, class, skills and level are important and here are some of the reasons that immediately come to mind.

Race: Not everyone is created equally. There is a massive difference between relative power levels of say a Space Wolfen and a Promethean.

Class: You mentioned dark jedi sorcerers (super powered Mystic Knight maybe?) which judging by that franchise means you're neigh unstoppable and without the moral restrictions (like the two sith). How could most other class's hope to compete with that type of power at any level?

Skills: Determine what you can attempt to do if you have the knowledge and means. Without knowing what you are capable of potentially doing it is more difficult to give "reasonable" theories to the problem.

Level: Often determines the amount of, power, duration and range of spells/psionics/powers. The amount of health, bonuses, ISP/PPE (ammo), the higher ability to pass skill rolls and general proficiency at your class. How you said "Level has very little to do with actual power in rifts unless you are playing something with a special ability built around that" makes Zero sense to me. Would that mean that there is no difference between level 1 and level 15 person?

I didn't quite understand what you were saying that npc's cannot gain exp (but you can?) nor did i understand about 1000 mega demons (never heard of it) or even the enlightenment that scales with levels hundreds of times. I am lost after "wiping the floor with anything level 14 in the books".

No I do not think that The Black Abyss Dimensional Pocket would transmit the brainwaves from inside the pocket, but you're already playing so far out of anything I've ever considered in terms of power I thought you'd have no problem adding another improbable option and get your starfortress (because lets face it you and I both know you're gonna get it). Since you said you can make rifts on demand (for what I assume is 0 cost and 1 melee action) you could just open a tiny communication rift to that dimension for as long as they're imprisoned and leech the brainwaves. Time passes very slowly in that pocket dimension so the brainwaves might not come fast enough (1 year is 1 day inside) or since they're in stasis they might not think to destroy the interlopers.

I think personally it sounds like either your GM has a hard time saying no or you all just want to play as invincible gods (which you made an ironclad agreement with you gm there'd be none of[except the pc group]). To me playing a invincible god is like playing a video game with cheats on. Sure it was fun for 5 minutes but for me no challenge makes any game dull very quickly, but whether or not you do play like that as long as you have fun is what matters.

Back to possible ideas.

Open rifts in areas under pressure with lava to get it flooding any vital ship areas you may have learned of.

Since magic, minions and resources are basicly unlimited just get a bunch of Diabolists or Soulmancer make enough permanence wards to ensure an agony or mind shatter last forever.

Now that I think about it with the knowledge of "I have discovered many of the 'deep' secrets held in the magic systems of rifts, and I know how to abuse them and break things at will", unlimited resources and no repercussions why do you need help either via forum or in-game just godmode it and make the megaverse your ****h.

Check out
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=153717
If you want to see other things on the level you're almost at.

VIsgar wrote:I think race, class, skills and level are important and here are some of the reasons that immediately come to mind.

Race: Yes, agreed. Not the purpose of this thread. I asked for a plan, and if you want to give me specific steps with specific races, classes, and levels- then that is entirely up to you, but you are not doing that; you seem to be only arguing your perspective on how ridiculous this all is.

Class: I don't have to mention anything, it is not the purpose of this thread to determine my class. And it is not my fault that you don't want to play in my power levels or approve of doing so?

Skills: What is your point here, are you questioning my gameplay? In a thread directed toward a specific question, please stay on topic. The topic is "how to do this", not "how terrible a player are you?", or "what meta and terrible GM you have?" or "In my game we would never allow that".

Level: The ability to cast spells, the ability to use psyonics, these are level based abilities yes. But magic far surpasses them, and if you have money then you don't need levels to have all the magic. The purposes of this thread are not for me to school you on how experience works in rifts and what you are awarded experience for. Perhaps you do things differently in your games? Perhaps you have never gotten above level 8. Perhaps you've never even fought a Dominator in your games and you are one of those GM fanboys of a race. None of those are the purposes of this thread.

If you have never played a character that could wipe the floor with a level 14, then I suggest trying. It is quite rewarding- but not the purpose of this thread. You probably won't get to play one if you can't stay on topic in a thread.

Why yes, I have figured out how to open a rift within 1 action, and no it does not entail zero cost, but I can balance the equation because I know how to do that. I'm sorry you can't seem to be able to comprehend how this could ever be possible? Not the purpose of this thread.

What you personally think about my GM has nothing to do with this thread. I have no need to defend myself, or him, but I will.. He is a great GM, he has great players, and we do enjoy his game. It's been going on for 2 years, and if you think that it is irrational to play something capable of challenging a Dominator then that is your prerogative. To me personally, this sounds like a case of you judging me.. and my GM. Frankly darling.

I like the Lava Idea, but I get the feeling that you don't think it would work. If I was your commander, and you were a sorcerer, then I would tell you to start thinking like a sorcerer, and less like a muggle. "We can't do it?"

Diabolists and a Soulmancer, great idea! That will help with keeping a Dominator restrained forever, potentially. That could be a possible solution to one of the problems. I think it would be easier to get a technowizardry item that operates off of a nexus point in space, like a collar, and use that instead.

You apparently do not approve of my methods? Yes I freely admit that I am capable of a lot within my game, and it is the kind of game where I can consider taking down a dominator... and yes, making it my *****. If you have never even considered this, then you simply haven't lived.
Open your mind.

Sorry for trying to get background information on your character which I could have used to help you out. Race and class are obviously secret (whats there to hide? who cares if you made yourself an elder race).

Asking about skills was in no way, shape or form judging you. I do not know how you came to that conclusion. Again trying to get information about what you can do is the best starting point for theorizing. How you think it has nothing to do with this topic is preposterous.

Magic strength and power are based off of level so yeah its pretty important.

You're only showing me how to play Rifts in "I can do anything without repercussions" mode.

You think that because I am voicing my opinion, other than what you want to hear, that I'll never be a high level role player? Sounds like you're just trying to attack me but w/e.

The EXACT purpose of this thread was to help you capture a Starfortress, but you also think that giving out the information required to do that is off topic and off the table for discussion.

The only thing I said about your GM was that I thought they had a hard time saying no. I do not feel that is an attack at all and was stated as an opinion not fact.

As one of the three people to respond to this I've been helpful and voiced my opinion about how ludicrous (not helpful) it is at the same time but if you just want to insult me and not share the info required to formulate a "viable sounding methods that a GM would have trouble viewing as simply ridiculous" (I've never met a GM who wouldn't say this whole idea is ridiculous) then I'll just be done with this topic.

VIsgar wrote:....

Well, this thread is not for repercussions? Nor it it for my race or class, I'm sorry you feel that you need those things in order to come up with viable solutions? Most people would not, I find this odd. For example, I could easily tell you how to hypothetically conquer the entire CCW without needing to know anything about your race or class and with a few minor assumptions, intelligence, commitment, timetable...

The information required to capture said starfortress is in the palladium books, and I'm sure you could find it if you tried hard enough. I'm sure that I already have a few methods in mind that are perfectly viable.

Yes, you have perfectly voiced how ludicrous the idea is; and like many people who will never become president (for example), explained how you would never do so. Which is indeed not very helpful to somebody wishing to obtain such goal- so your input in this thread is less than necessary. Nor do I feel like your opinions need to be fact in order for me to criticize them.

Without knowing the abilities of you and the rest of your group there's no way of giving you a plan with any chance of success because there's no way of knowing what your group can do.

For the record, the idea of any group capturing and keeping a starfortress is ludicrous just due to the simple fact that even if you somehow managed to do so, every dominator in the Three Galaxies will be hunting you down to recapture or destroy the dominator tech you stole.

My intent was to show that in games I play there isn't going to be a character level way to capture a Dominator's base that a GM will be ok with. You need the resources and power level of a stellar power.

If you games is of the power level you are talking, invent or find a mcguffin that allows you to stun a Dominator, then take over in his place. Think of a dominator version of Starro from Superman. Leave the Dom in a virtual world until you can bypass things.

RockJock wrote:My intent was to show that in games I play there isn't going to be a character level way to capture a Dominator's base that a GM will be ok with. You need the resources and power level of a stellar power.

If you games is of the power level you are talking, invent or find a mcguffin that allows you to stun a Dominator, then take over in his place. Think of a dominator version of Starro from Superman. Leave the Dom in a virtual world until you can bypass things.

Ok, thanks Rock. I realize that in most games out there the characters will never be on the level of attempting such a thing. Furthermore Rifts isnt like D&D where a lot of people end up going into higher tiers of levels and fighting gods and primordials and Balors and such things. Going to hell, killing things in other dimensions, and having access to ready means of doing such things, as well as ship based combat on fleet sized scales, and planetary wars, even empire spanning wars is the kind of thing that my group enjoys doing from time to time- and especially in a longer running Rifts campaign, I don't see anything wrong with that. Dominator is just a higher level opponent in that regard, and we are usually rewarded for being clever.
I mean, there is a whole lot in Rifts that you simply can't explore without being ridiculously powerful- but that's on another note.

I like the idea of a Virtual World, but I'm not sure how best that would be accomplished. Perhaps a technowizard device operated off of a nexus in space that imposes a mind shatter is the best idea I've had from here so far. I did come for Mguffins after all. =)

Dont try to control the Dominator, control the Boiwar to not blow up.
Or maybe you could use the connection the stasis chamber has to the Dominator as a way to get past the Mind Block.

Alright, so your problem is you need to capture a live mdc being with super tech, immunity to psychi mind infleunce and so one?

The easiest solution is best, if your magic isnt enough and your psy wont work use tech, or i guess bio wizardy

Create a being or machine that will allow you to control his thoughts, your not using psy or magic, but directly altering his brain, preferably after you hit him with your patented "God Tranqs 99" in enough dozage to put a splugoroth into a coma. Bonus points if you actually do induce coma to make him easier to brain drain, as for reaching him?.....hope you brought a bigger boat

As a GM I find the Dominator ship to be beyond ridiculous. I don't see how you can get anyone on the ship with all of its weapons and that temporal shield. You can try to open a rift into it but without a nexus point you would need someone who has been on the ship and that is really rare.

Honestly the best option is to find a Dominator in a star system and try to sneak aboard with some sort of stealth tech. Breaching is almost impossible since the armor is 1 mile thick. Then you get inside there has to be internal defenses, then you have to kill a fully armed dominator.

Another strategy is if you have players with natural powers they can try to get taken aboard as slaves. But the book says they MAY have 2D6 and players would need to know where he would get his slaves and what kind of slaves he likes. This could be some serious intelligence work but maybe.

The only real chance would be if the players had help from elder racers like Zodians or K!zons.

If my players tried this I would make sure they understood that this was the definition of a suicide mission.

Warshield73 wrote:If my players tried this I would make sure they understood that this was the definition of a suicide mission.

Feels like an excuse to hand people a stack of palladium books, tell them "go wild" and walk away.

Nightmartree wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:If my players tried this I would make sure they understood that this was the definition of a suicide mission.

Feels like an excuse to hand people a stack of palladium books, tell them "go wild" and walk away.

I am firm believer that a GM should never kill a character, that characters should only die from A) Extremely poor dice luck or B) Players making an informed choice. If you of read the Knights of the Dinner Table from Rifter 4, a Dominator Starfortress is the portal of death and players should be warned before walking through.

Warshield73 wrote:

Nightmartree wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:If my players tried this I would make sure they understood that this was the definition of a suicide mission.

Feels like an excuse to hand people a stack of palladium books, tell them "go wild" and walk away.

I am firm believer that a GM should never kill a character, that characters should only die from A) Extremely poor dice luck or B) Players making an informed choice. If you of read the Knights of the Dinner Table from Rifter 4, a Dominator Starfortress is the portal of death and players should be warned before walking through.

I don't see how what I said affects what you said? They wanna take on a Dominator fortress, so i'll let them. Its a suicide mission so i'm gonna hand them the books and let them have fun and build whatever crazy thing i'd never ever wanna see come across the table at me. They're informed, i'm not forcing them to bring long running characters into a death trap, i'm giving them and me the chance to run wild with things we'd normally never touch.

And actually that's how we normally play, informed choices and dice rolls, except instead of GM killing the players its more like the players kill the GM at our table...like seriously, my group is the ones who will do the craziest things simple because they believe they have a shot to work and the dice often bears that out. Have you ever had someone roll multiple crits and nothing lower than a 16 for an entire melee? I have two people at my table who do that consistently, we have another person who doesn't often get into fights but likes to crit every time she back attacks someone or just rolls perfectly whenever she needs to, and the only time I roll good is when i'm GM and its likely to massacre the party...I've played games were I never rolled over a 4 in combat the entire day. Anyway, we go by choice and dice and whoever is GM will normally fudge the die or simply put you into critically injured just cause its not real fun when you die due to bad luck. But ya, spend 8 hours on a game they take 10 minutes to wreck and leave you scrambling it's rough

So going back to the never kill your players bit...I don't think that's true, I think you should never kill your players...unless they know it may happen and is part of the campaign, we're trying to get my sister to GM nightbane since she loves the setting but neither me our my dad (our standard GM's) our up to it. And since its a darker setting we established going in that player death is possible and she will in fact be trying to kill us, she's not gonna screw us over, but if it seems logical that the local MIB (whos actual name I can never remember) knew you where there and potentially massively armed and dangerous they'll respond appropriately and there will be no kid gloves. If you die, you get to roll up a nifty new nightbane and move on with your life, or unlife depending on character choices. The goal? a different feel of play and to actually have us dealing with the whole outnumbered and outmatched, we could be in danger feel that we rarely get from our standard games.

So its not don't kill your players, its don't screw them over or the mood up

and original guy already said he'd make sure they knew it was a death trap, and my response was that I felt like this would be a situation were you hand your players the books to make things and walk away so they can go wild...how does that make use kill our players characters?

Warshield73 wrote:

Nightmartree wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:If my players tried this I would make sure they understood that this was the definition of a suicide mission.

Feels like an excuse to hand people a stack of palladium books, tell them "go wild" and walk away.

I am firm believer that a GM should never kill a character, that characters should only die from A) Extremely poor dice luck or B) Players making an informed choice. If you of read the Knights of the Dinner Table from Rifter 4, a Dominator Starfortress is the portal of death and players should be warned before walking through.

I would say it this way "Good GMs don't kill PCs. PCs kill PCs."
I only rarely end up killing my players characters. They however, with some regularity put themselves in situations where They Are Going To Die. <tm> (Hint, chasing a fleeing demon lord back to his court? Bad Idea. Attacking a god in its throne room? Here's a blank sheet. You want to do what to who? Okay... how many HP do you have again?)
And I am of the firm opinion that "Choosing to attack an Elder Being, A single member of which was able to decimate an entire Splugorth Starsystem before choosing to leave, in his moon sized battle station." Counts as a full on "Hold my beer" situation and I would, as a GM feel not the slightest twinge of responsibility for casually slaughtering the lot of them if they did it.

THAT said...
One of my previous games involved the players being in a system when a Dominator attacked. There was, of course no way that they could survive it. By the rules they would be dead.
But they survived (They were, in fact the sole survivors in the entire star system).
This later became a plot point, but the point was that I didn't kill them because they didn't choose to engage the Dominator. I chose to have the Dominator show up and thus they were totally safe (more or less). Now if they had decided that the solution was for them to attack the starfortress with their ship...
That would likely have been a really, really short campaign.

The only time I've killed a player there were 4 of them and they had to stop an evil mind mage's reign of terror. He was in a tower with three floors and had about 15-18 goblin minions. After clearing the first floor they were heading up the stairs and got hit by a boiling cauldron of oil. They all took serious damage and went back down stairs. One person had a natural regen and there was a priest giving out heals. Our dwarven knight refused to wait any longer even though the other players pleaded with him to wait. He went charging upstairs to find several ranged units with a pair of guards protecting them. So he charged into battle instead of going back down. The others heard his death scream and decided to leave dubbing it "the tower of terror."

Others have died but mostly to other players. They fight over loot, because of their insanities, conflicts in ideas or morals, pranks that escalate or just to be the jerk that character was made to be.
"I want to shoot his sdc backpack and belongings with my plasma ejector while in hiding from behind!" (Everyone has paid for md backpacks since, but they still get destroyed a lot. Mostly by one aggressor.)


I tell my player characters to expect to get what they do to others. One guy loved spamming agony against my main antagonists removing them from the fight or killing them if not saved by loyal minions. A mindshatter to him once encouraged him not to be a one trick pony.


Warshield73. I picked up the Rifter 4 on drivethrurpg just to read that story. I got a good laugh.

Can you use Astral Projection to scout the fortress?

Does the fortress null high level invisibility spells?

I assume the Dominator is intelligent. What is it's desire? Manipulation is a form of control. If you can come to an understanding, you can get it to do what you want.

Also, what is the goal of capturing the fortress? Why is it necessary to your plans?