Energy Expulsion with no range

[Prodigy]

Has anyone ever used an EE power as a melee weapon with no range' i.e. A sword composed of Devine Energy (Armageddon Unlimited)?

[drewkitty ~..~]

So what you mean is a EE power mod'ed to be Swords?
Or a range of Touch?
Or ones with an Unlimited range?

[Prodigy]

So what you mean is a EE power mod'ed to be Swords?
Or a range of Touch?
Or onces with an Unlimited range?

modded to be a sword without any range or melee range only.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There might be some examples in the fan made super powers topic.

[eliakon]

Has anyone ever used an EE power as a melee weapon with no range' i.e. A sword composed of Devine Energy (Armageddon Unlimited)?

Yeah.
I allowed a player to do just that a few years back.
It worked like this
Energy Expulsion: <energy type> ==> Energy Blade: <energy type>
Damage stayed the same.
Instead of the normal EE strike bonus they got to use their PP+WP bonuses+(other relevant skills)+1 (Because it was a natural part of them so easier to control than an artificial weapon)
It was 'solid' enough that it could be used to parry even though it was made out of light. (and at +1 for the same reason as the strike bonus)
When they got to the level when they could shoot two bolts... they could make two blades and use paired weapons.

The player felt that the trade off was worth while. They lost the range...but gained a massive boost in strike (via WPs and Skills) and gained the defensive ability of the parry. They also appreciated the fact that they could regulate the damage their swords did with great precision and that unlike normal energy blasts there were no collateral damage issues.

And of course, nothing prevented a player from selecting both the EE and EB powers. Which the character in question did. Neon Ninja, it had Energy Blade Light, Energy Expulsion Light (which manifested as him 'throwing' light shuriken), Bend Light, and Alter Physical Structure Light with H2H martial arts and a bunch of physical skills.

[Prodigy]

Has anyone ever used an EE power as a melee weapon with no range' i.e. A sword composed of Devine Energy (Armageddon Unlimited)?

Yeah.
I allowed a player to do just that a few years back.
It worked like this
Energy Expulsion: <energy type> ==> Energy Blade: <energy type>
Damage stayed the same.
Instead of the normal EE strike bonus they got to use their PP+WP bonuses+(other relevant skills)+1 (Because it was a natural part of them so easier to control than an artificial weapon)
It was 'solid' enough that it could be used to parry even though it was made out of light. (and at +1 for the same reason as the strike bonus)
When they got to the level when they could shoot two bolts... they could make two blades and use paired weapons.



The player felt that the trade off was worth while. They lost the range...but gained a massive boost in strike (via WPs and Skills) and gained the defensive ability of the parry. They also appreciated the fact that they could regulate the damage their swords did with great precision and that unlike normal energy blasts there were no collateral damage issues.

And of course, nothing prevented a player from selecting both the EE and EB powers. Which the character in question did. Neon Ninja, it had Energy Blade Light, Energy Expulsion Light (which manifested as him 'throwing' light shuriken), Bend Light, and Alter Physical Structure Light with H2H martial arts and a bunch of physical skills.

This is exactly what I was thinking but I wanted to validate it with another opinion.

Question; did you allow P.S. bonuses? I lean towards "no" as most energy melee weapons not.

Thanks for the awesome input!

[eliakon]

Has anyone ever used an EE power as a melee weapon with no range' i.e. A sword composed of Devine Energy (Armageddon Unlimited)?

Yeah.
I allowed a player to do just that a few years back.
It worked like this
Energy Expulsion: <energy type> ==> Energy Blade: <energy type>
Damage stayed the same.
Instead of the normal EE strike bonus they got to use their PP+WP bonuses+(other relevant skills)+1 (Because it was a natural part of them so easier to control than an artificial weapon)
It was 'solid' enough that it could be used to parry even though it was made out of light. (and at +1 for the same reason as the strike bonus)
When they got to the level when they could shoot two bolts... they could make two blades and use paired weapons.



The player felt that the trade off was worth while. They lost the range...but gained a massive boost in strike (via WPs and Skills) and gained the defensive ability of the parry. They also appreciated the fact that they could regulate the damage their swords did with great precision and that unlike normal energy blasts there were no collateral damage issues.

And of course, nothing prevented a player from selecting both the EE and EB powers. Which the character in question did. Neon Ninja, it had Energy Blade Light, Energy Expulsion Light (which manifested as him 'throwing' light shuriken), Bend Light, and Alter Physical Structure Light with H2H martial arts and a bunch of physical skills.

This is exactly what I was thinking but I wanted to validate it with another opinion.

Question; did you allow P.S. bonuses? I lean towards "no" as most energy melee weapons not.

Thanks for the awesome input!

In my game I did not allow PS bonuses. As you say this was a universal thing.
I didn't allow it for psi-swords, energy swords, laser swords, light-blade spells... or anything but actual factual physical weapons (thus making having an actual physical weapon have an upside as opposed to the nice "insta weapon" of an energy blade)
That and especially in HU you can quickly run into some absurdly high PS damage bonuses. I decided on this rule after an incident involving a brick character, a plasma sword and a +50 damage bonus....

[Razorwing]

Wouldn't this be the same as Weapon Energy Extentions (Major Power, PU1)?

[Stone Gargoyle]

I don't allow it because there are other powers in the books and elsewhere that allow you to do this without having to alter the EE power.

[Daniel Stoker]

Yeah this seems to basically covered by either the Power Channeling ability (HU 2E p. 236), Energy Claws (PU1 p. 21), or Energy Fists (PU3 p. 10). Personally I always liked Energy Fists if I was going to pick any of those 3 but your mileage may vary based on what exactly you're looking at.


Daniel Stoker

[eliakon]

Yeah this seems to basically covered by either the Power Channeling ability (HU 2E p. 236), Energy Claws (PU1 p. 21), or Energy Fists (PU3 p. 10). Personally I always liked Energy Fists if I was going to pick any of those 3 but your mileage may vary based on what exactly you're looking at.


Daniel Stoker

Yes it is similar to those.
Though unlike them it does allow a weapon effect so you can have an energy sword, or energy pike or energy whip instead of just a fist or claws.

That said...
I would not be all that adverse to a player wanting to modify one of those powers a bit to get a melee weapon out of it. I'm a big fan of avoiding cookie cutter characters.

[Daniel Stoker]

I found body weapons and Energy Fists to be a pretty nasty combo.


Daniel Stoker

[eliakon]

I found body weapons and Energy Fists to be a pretty nasty combo.


Daniel Stoker

That is.
But not everyone wants (or has) two powers to spend on making a combination power.
Sometimes people just want to spend one power slot on a power to get the power they want and not have to spend multiple slots to buy several other powers that can be combined to allow them to get the one ability they want as one of the side effects.
It is for people like that who I would recommend a power like this to.

[Daniel Stoker]

Oh I get that, but it would be simple enough based on the powers abilities to turn Energy Fists just by itself into an Energy Weapon power without needing to do much but change the flavor of the text. I was just pointing out something even nastier you can (and I have) done in the past.


Daniel Stoker

[The Artist Formerly]

Wasn't there a power weapon ability in one of the PU books that did this?

Alternately, Fabricators Inc sell vibro and electro weapons, there are a number of alien weapons that use fire and cold, and I believe there are super soldier weapons of the same nature, just equip one of those and save yourself the power slot for something else. Or if the idea is core to your character build, use them as a guideline to make your own power, no fuss, no muss.

[Daniel Stoker]

Scrapers had that power I don't think it made it to Heroes though.


Daniel Stoker

[The Artist Formerly]

PU 1, page 36. Power weapon by Jason Lukowski.

Damn I'm awesome.

[Daniel Stoker]

That works to "surround a melee weapon" the character already has, it sounds like he is looking for a power that creates a weapon.


Daniel Stoker

[eliakon]

Wasn't there a power weapon ability in one of the PU books that did this?

Alternately, Fabricators Inc sell vibro and electro weapons, there are a number of alien weapons that use fire and cold, and I believe there are super soldier weapons of the same nature, just equip one of those and save yourself the power slot for something else. Or if the idea is core to your character build, use them as a guideline to make your own power, no fuss, no muss.

...
You mean like we did here?
when we, made our own power that fit a specific specialist criteria for a core character build that wasn't available already?
sort of just like that?

I really don't get why people get upset at the idea that someone else might make up a power, for a game that they will never play in.
Prodigy wanted a power that could do X, Y, and Z
As far as he knew there was no power that could do X and Y and Z, just X+Y or Y+Z or X+Z. Thus to get X+Y+Z he ask a question.
As far as I could recall from my books, there isn't exactly such a power either. However in my games I had had a player that had also wanted X+Y+X (this game being long, long ago before I even had the PU books). So I figured that I would just post what we used in our game for someone in this same situation.

I apologize to anyone that Prodigy and I offended by suggesting that we might not be playing the game the exact same way as the rest of you and that we might possibly use different house rules than those used at your tables. However I would politely ask that trashing the idea of asking for help be stopped.
If people have constructive criticism hey that's great. But simply saying "hey your a fool to ask that, just play something else" has no place.

[Prodigy]

Wasn't there a power weapon ability in one of the PU books that did this?

Alternately, Fabricators Inc sell vibro and electro weapons, there are a number of alien weapons that use fire and cold, and I believe there are super soldier weapons of the same nature, just equip one of those and save yourself the power slot for something else. Or if the idea is core to your character build, use them as a guideline to make your own power, no fuss, no muss.

...
You mean like we did here?
when we, made our own power that fit a specific specialist criteria for a core character build that wasn't available already?
sort of just like that?

I really don't get why people get upset at the idea that someone else might make up a power, for a game that they will never play in.
Prodigy wanted a power that could do X, Y, and Z
As far as he knew there was no power that could do X and Y and Z, just X+Y or Y+Z or X+Z. Thus to get X+Y+Z he ask a question.
As far as I could recall from my books, there isn't exactly such a power either. However in my games I had had a player that had also wanted X+Y+X (this game being long, long ago before I even had the PU books). So I figured that I would just post what we used in our game for someone in this same situation.

I apologize to anyone that Prodigy and I offended by suggesting that we might not be playing the game the exact same way as the rest of you and that we might possibly use different house rules than those used at your tables. However I would politely ask that trashing the idea of asking for help be stopped.
If people have constructive criticism hey that's great. But simply saying "hey your a fool to ask that, just play something else" has no place.

There needs to be a "like" button! Thanks eliakon! You were right. I wanted a melee weapon, the character could summon and have the effects of an EE. The Range power did not fit the concept.

[Razorwing]

Wasn't there a power weapon ability in one of the PU books that did this?

Alternately, Fabricators Inc sell vibro and electro weapons, there are a number of alien weapons that use fire and cold, and I believe there are super soldier weapons of the same nature, just equip one of those and save yourself the power slot for something else. Or if the idea is core to your character build, use them as a guideline to make your own power, no fuss, no muss.

Wouldn't this be the same as Weapon Energy Extentions (Powers Unlimited 1, Pg 86)?

Seriously... I mentioned this something like the 8th post in this thread (and yes, it is the same as presented in Skraypers... modified for the SDC setting of Heroes Unlimited)... though I did modify the original post to include the page number.

[Daniel Stoker]

And found it, it's in Skrapers P. 149 and is a major power:

Energy Weapon Extensions

The ability to form deadly energy from one's hands in the form/shape of a simple weapon (Sword, sickle, axe, trident, etc.) Similar to a Psi-sword, only it is a different manifestation of energy and very powerful. Each creation of the weapon appendage counts as one melee action. As many as one per hand, plus prehensile tail in the case of Talus, or tentacles can be created, but each used up one melee action.

Daniel Stoker

[eliakon]

Wasn't there a power weapon ability in one of the PU books that did this?

Alternately, Fabricators Inc sell vibro and electro weapons, there are a number of alien weapons that use fire and cold, and I believe there are super soldier weapons of the same nature, just equip one of those and save yourself the power slot for something else. Or if the idea is core to your character build, use them as a guideline to make your own power, no fuss, no muss.

Wouldn't this be the same as Weapon Energy Extentions (Powers Unlimited 1, Pg 86)?

Seriously... I mentioned this something like the 8th post in this thread (and yes, it is the same as presented in Skraypers... modified for the SDC setting of Heroes Unlimited)... though I did modify the original post to include the page number.

Which, again is not what was wanted.
Its is a very potent power that has a huge number of differences
1) you can make as many as you have limbs instead of 1 energy blade (2 at level 4+ but you split the damage dice between them)
2) it starts at 6d6+2 damage instead of 1d6 and scales up +2 per level instead of 1d6 per level
3) it has a 'range' of six inches per level (so first level you can only make daggers....)
4) it can make any weapon as opposed to being limited to one specific weapon
Thus
5) it is a major power not a minor one

So once again its a "close but not quite"
Its closer, but still not what was asked for anymore than Super Energy Expulsion is the only power that could be chosen if someone wants a non-standard Energy Expulsion. When instead its easiest to simply take EE: <what ever is closest> and reskin it as EE: <what ever it is that they want to throw> and move on.

[Daniel Stoker]

He asked about "an EE power as a melee weapon with no range' i.e. A sword composed of Devine Energy (Armageddon Unlimited)" and that's an EE power as a melee weapon. Yes it's a major not a minor, but that's the only real book legal power that I know of that gives him what he was looking for and if he wants to make his own version that IS a minor is a nice starting place as well if he wants to build his own.


Daniel Stoker

[drewkitty ~..~]

The EEW power can be used as a format to plug the EE power numbers into to make a minor energy weapon power of the chosen EE energy type. I would also omit the multiple weapons option & the combat bonuses in EEW, and make make the size/form static (picked during char creation).

[Hell knight]

In gramercy island pg 186/187 raptor red has the energy weapon extensions , so i would say it did make it in to normal heroes.

[eliakon]

Technically the Skraypers book is a HU sourcebook anyway...

But none of this is really germane to the question of "has anyone used an Energy Expulsion power (abbreviation removed) as a melee weapon with no range i.e. a sword composed of divine energy"...
as none of these suggested "correct ways to do this" are Energy Expulsion powers let alone provide 'flavored' energy such as oh, I don't know... swords made out of divine energy perhaps?

I'm just curious what the people here in this thread seem to have against the idea of custom powers?

I get that there are other powers that do similar things.
I get that there is a major power that provides generic energy weapons, although Energy Extensions is not an Energy Expulsion power and does not come in 'flavors'... it is just 'generic energy' and thus not Light/Sound/Fire/Heat/Divine/Demonic Fury/Et multiple cetera.
What I do not get is why people are so against the idea of someone looking at the box (official published game material) not finding the exact tool they want... and wanting to look outside the box. Can someone please explain that to me? Because that is what this looks like to me.
Prodigy asks a specific question... and gets a lot of responses in the vein of "your asking the wrong question. Here is the answer to the question you meant to ask." Because the answer to "is there any power in the game that allows a sword made up of divine energy" is "No, there is noting at all that allows that in any way, shape or form you will need to make a custom power for that." the answer is not "well you don't really want a sword made up of divine energy, what you really want is a sword made up of generic energy. And that comes from this power over here, so use that." because that response is telling them that they are playing the game wrong.

[Daniel Stoker]

What do I have against custom powers? Um... nothing? I mean I pointed out before a couple of good powers I thought he could use as a basis for a custom power, and when I found it I posted the closet thing we have to "an EE power as a melee weapon with no range' i.e. A sword composed of Devine Energy (Armageddon Unlimited)" when I found it I posted it in case that would work for him. You seem to be a lot more upset about most of the posts then he is and reading a lot more into them then I think is close to being there Eli.


Daniel Stoker

[Stone Gargoyle]

I am sure the New Powers thread has powers like that. I would look on the Black Vault Wiki site for said powers but the site is down temporarily.

[ShadowLogan]

Has anyone ever used an EE power as a melee weapon with no range' i.e. A sword composed of Devine Energy (Armageddon Unlimited)?

No. But I have to wonder what would be wrong with just doing:
A. making a character with psychic ability for Psi-Sword (Super Psi Power), the end result would basically be the same.
B. just giving them Psi-Sword (or the Psi-claw variant in mutant animals Psi-power section) and treating it as a Super Power (ie no ISP cost). I mean it isn't like there aren't examples of Psi/Magic/Super-Power overlap in terms of what they do and performance (though there might be slight differences I admit).
C. Assume a roll of 96-00 on the "Number & Category of Super Abilities" on pg225, and just select Psi-Sword, it would still leave 1-2 additional Super Powers to select (admit this table may or may not be superseded by the Power Category Class the character is using).

For all practical purposes though Rifts Cyber Knights (and IINM a few other classes with a different Psi-power) show that you can have a Psi-Power with no/reduced activation cost, and even be a lesser Psychic who essentially has access to the "out of level Psi-Power(s)" (Psi-Sword being a Super, and only available to Master level Psychics, but Minor/Major/Non Psychic Cyber Knights still have the power, and as of SoT update one can include Psi-Shield at 1/2 cost).

[Prodigy]

Has anyone ever used an EE power as a melee weapon with no range' i.e. A sword composed of Devine Energy (Armageddon Unlimited)?

No. But I have to wonder what would be wrong with just doing:
A. making a character with psychic ability for Psi-Sword (Super Psi Power), the end result would basically be the same.
B. just giving them Psi-Sword (or the Psi-claw variant in mutant animals Psi-power section) and treating it as a Super Power (ie no ISP cost). I mean it isn't like there aren't examples of Psi/Magic/Super-Power overlap in terms of what they do and performance (though there might be slight differences I admit).
C. Assume a roll of 96-00 on the "Number & Category of Super Abilities" on pg225, and just select Psi-Sword, it would still leave 1-2 additional Super Powers to select (admit this table may or may not be superseded by the Power Category Class the character is using).

For all practical purposes though Rifts Cyber Knights (and IINM a few other classes with a different Psi-power) show that you can have a Psi-Power with no/reduced activation cost, and even be a lesser Psychic who essentially has access to the "out of level Psi-Power(s)" (Psi-Sword being a Super, and only available to Master level Psychics, but Minor/Major/Non Psychic Cyber Knights still have the power, and as of SoT update one can include Psi-Shield at 1/2 cost).

I though of that but you pointed out a few shortcomings; it cost I.S.P. to use and depending on the character you might not have said option. I was also looking for a very specific effect like the one given by Devine Energy.

Not bad ideas, but just not what I am looking for. Thanks Shadow.

[ShadowLogan]

Well yes there is an ISP cost and needing to be psychic, but there are ways around both that have precedent megaversally speaking.

However the simplest approach IMHO would to be just take the Psi-Power and say it comes in Psychic and Super Power versions, maybe with a little twist to make each unique. (Mechano-Link= Telemechanics, Transferal/Possession = Mentally Posses Others, Impervious to Fire & Heat = Impervious to Fire are all examples that suggest such a thing is possible IMHO).

Another option is to use one of the "Armor" powers (Force Aura, Bio-Armor for ex) that sports a hand-held melee weapon (can't be thrown, and it disappears if "dropped", yes I know the description for both examples excludes hand-held weapons, but...) as part of the "armor" OR IT IS the "armor" (ever see the old D&D cartoon from the 80s, 1/2 of the kids' "magic weapons" aren't really weapons per-say).

[The Artist Formerly]

...
You mean like we did here?
when we, made our own power that fit a specific specialist criteria for a core character build that wasn't available already?
sort of just like that?

Uh, sure.

I really don't get why people get upset at the idea that someone else might make up a power, for a game that they will never play in.
Prodigy wanted a power that could do X, Y, and Z
As far as he knew there was no power that could do X and Y and Z, just X+Y or Y+Z or X+Z. Thus to get X+Y+Z he ask a question.
As far as I could recall from my books, there isn't exactly such a power either. However in my games I had had a player that had also wanted X+Y+X (this game being long, long ago before I even had the PU books). So I figured that I would just post what we used in our game for someone in this same situation.

I apologize to anyone that Prodigy and I offended by suggesting that we might not be playing the game the exact same way as the rest of you and that we might possibly use different house rules than those used at your tables. However I would politely ask that trashing the idea of asking for help be stopped.
If people have constructive criticism hey that's great. But simply saying "hey your a fool to ask that, just play something else" has no place.

Not really sure what that was about or what if your even aimed at me.

[Slight001]

Has anyone ever used an EE power as a melee weapon with no range' i.e. A sword composed of Devine Energy (Armageddon Unlimited)?

Of course. I tend to look at the powers (or any aspect really) in the game as guidelines rather then the end all be all. Of course this is driven by the fact that I rarely see anything that truly fits the concepts I create or the characters that I enjoy playing.

Honestly it really depends upon your group and how the Players and the GM interact. It could go bad or good. As you can see from this thread there are those who will try to shoe horn a concept into a predesigned idea/form rather then even consider altering something else even if the concept is lost/damaged in the process. There are also those who would rather make the concept work by modifying (or even creating new) a power to fit the idea. Personally I like to think I'm somewhere in the middle trying to balance game mechanics and character concepts within the setting of the campaign.

Hopefully you are able to work things out with your group such that all parties are satisfied and you can enjoy your time with this character.

[RockJock]

We have always used Energy Whip with the whip replaced by a sword. Pretty much the same as Energy Claws.

[Prodigy]

We have always used Energy Whip with the whip replaced by a sword. Pretty much the same as Energy Claws.

. This is a good option as it adds P.S. bonus as well. Thanks

[Daniel Stoker]

So does Energy Fists, just saying.


Daniel Stoker