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Been thinking about this for a little bit. To me mega damage has a little too much of a gap to SDC, on the other hand MDC doesn't deal with AR as much. I just want opinions on this since I'm working on my little project of reworking things.

Pleas keep this clean.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/

I agree. I house rule a category of Heavy Damage Capacity or H.D.C. for personal level weapons and armor. H.D.C. is equal to 10 S.D.C. It has worked out pretty well.

Mark

I always thought they needed to close the gap, and to branch things outward, using the same principles for x10 damage, x1000 damage, and so forth.
Even go down to 1/10th damage and 1/100th damage, for stuff that's weaker than SDC.

shihansmurf wrote:I agree. I house rule a category of Heavy Damage Capacity or H.D.C. for personal level weapons and armor. H.D.C. is equal to 10 S.D.C. It has worked out pretty well.

Mark

I tried to make the case a while back that Mega Damage should be called Hecto Damage, since the scientific international standard of mega is 1 million, not 100, and "Hecto" is the proper prefix for 100.

What you're proposing would be Deca Damage.

Hotrod wrote:

shihansmurf wrote:I agree. I house rule a category of Heavy Damage Capacity or H.D.C. for personal level weapons and armor. H.D.C. is equal to 10 S.D.C. It has worked out pretty well.

Mark

I tried to make the case a while back that Mega Damage should be called Hecto Damage, since the scientific international standard of mega is 1 million, not 100, and "Hecto" is the proper prefix for 100.

What you're proposing would be Deca Damage.

Since it's impossible that Palladium would ever make any mistakes, I think you're reading things wrong.
Mega-Damage is 100 SDC, but it must necessarily be 1,000,000 of the base damage unit.
All that means is that the base damage unit is 1/10,000th of 1 SDC

My simple guess is that "mega" was used, a bit untechnically perhaps, to mean "a lot", which is true and makes the point. I like MDC for REALLY big guns - you know, the ones a human being usually will not survive, like being hit by ship gun, but in the end MDC is just a different notation of the same thing, so there is possible conversion.

I never had a problem with conversion as I had no occasion to need it, but the conversion rule of 1:100 should work when coupled with a sense of proportion. I like the idea to use 1:10 in lieu, from time to time, i.e. when appropriate.

It may make the most sense to look whether there is a comparable SDC weapon and use those stats. A tank is a tank and a rail gun is a rail gun. A personal weapon MDC laser weapon should not do much more damage than any other rifle. Range and ammo are the main difference.

Recently, I thought a lot about blackpowder weapons. The difference to weapons of today are (mainly) accuracy, safety, range and ammo. A fixed conversion rate of damage would not help at all.

I think the trick is in, as said, a sense of proportion and comparability.

I'm reminded somewhat of the scaling system in the old D6 Star Wars game, where you had personal scale, vehicle scale, fighter scale, capital scale, and planetary scale. It would be interesting to see a similar multi-tiered system in Rifts such that the Ticonderoga can't be significantly damaged by a Wilk's laser pistol, no matter how many times it shoots.

Here's a question... I'd like to use some Rifts stuff for Heroes Unlimited, but the whole M.D.C. thing seems to be omnipresent. I know 100 S.D.C. = 1 M.D.C. Is there something more to it than that? I mean, isn't there a whole book dedicated to converting things form Rifts to other settings? Can it be that simple? Why a conversion book if it's just that simple? Maybe the book covers other things than the damage conversion. Thanks.

Jack Burton wrote:Here's a question... I'd like to use some Rifts stuff for Heroes Unlimited, but the whole M.D.C. thing seems to be omnipresent. I know 100 S.D.C. = 1 M.D.C. Is there something more to it than that?

That's most of what there is to Mega-Damage, except that it has to be 100 SDC in one attack from one person/whatever in order to damage MDC items.
Also, 1 MD can inflict more damage or less damage than 100 SDC depending on which rules you use from which book.

Some people nerf mega-damage down to 1:10 instead of 1:100. That would likely work better for HU.

I mean, isn't there a whole book dedicated to converting things form Rifts to other settings? Can it be that simple? Why a conversion book if it's just that simple? Maybe the book covers other things than the damage conversion. Thanks.

The Rifts setting itself is more powerful than most other settings, due to the ley lines. So certain super powers get augmented in the Rifts setting, as well as many kinds of critters and certain character classes.
Yes, the Conversion books (Conversion Book 1, Conversion Book 1 revised, and Dark Conversions) do change more than just SDC to MDC at a 100:1 ratio.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Jack Burton wrote:Here's a question... I'd like to use some Rifts stuff for Heroes Unlimited, but the whole M.D.C. thing seems to be omnipresent. I know 100 S.D.C. = 1 M.D.C. Is there something more to it than that?

That's most of what there is to Mega-Damage, except that it has to be 100 SDC in one attack from one person/whatever in order to damage MDC items.
Also, 1 MD can inflict more damage or less damage than 100 SDC depending on which rules you use from which book.

Some people nerf mega-damage down to 1:10 instead of 1:100. That would likely work better for HU.

I mean, isn't there a whole book dedicated to converting things form Rifts to other settings? Can it be that simple? Why a conversion book if it's just that simple? Maybe the book covers other things than the damage conversion. Thanks.

The Rifts setting itself is more powerful than most other settings, due to the ley lines. So certain super powers get augmented in the Rifts setting, as well as many kinds of critters and certain character classes.
Yes, the Conversion books (Conversion Book 1, Conversion Book 1 revised, and Dark Conversions) do change more than just SDC to MDC at a 100:1 ratio.

Gotcha. Thanks!

Killer Cyborg wrote:I always thought they needed to close the gap, and to branch things outward, using the same principles for x10 damage, x1000 damage, and so forth.
Even go down to 1/10th damage and 1/100th damage, for stuff that's weaker than SDC.

Too close to Mekton/Fuzion or dare I say it Synnibarr

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Jack Burton wrote:Here's a question... I'd like to use some Rifts stuff for Heroes Unlimited, but the whole M.D.C. thing seems to be omnipresent. I know 100 S.D.C. = 1 M.D.C. Is there something more to it than that?

That's most of what there is to Mega-Damage, except that it has to be 100 SDC in one attack from one person/whatever in order to damage MDC items.
Also, 1 MD can inflict more damage or less damage than 100 SDC depending on which rules you use from which book.

Some people nerf mega-damage down to 1:10 instead of 1:100. That would likely work better for HU.

I mean, isn't there a whole book dedicated to converting things form Rifts to other settings? Can it be that simple? Why a conversion book if it's just that simple? Maybe the book covers other things than the damage conversion. Thanks.

The Rifts setting itself is more powerful than most other settings, due to the ley lines. So certain super powers get augmented in the Rifts setting, as well as many kinds of critters and certain character classes.
Yes, the Conversion books (Conversion Book 1, Conversion Book 1 revised, and Dark Conversions) do change more than just SDC to MDC at a 100:1 ratio.

liked it better when it was 100SDC from a single attack when that meant a .50 cal couldn't do anything no matter how many bullets were shot because each round couldn't do 100SDC. Darn .50 cal fans.

Hotrod wrote:

shihansmurf wrote:I agree. I house rule a category of Heavy Damage Capacity or H.D.C. for personal level weapons and armor. H.D.C. is equal to 10 S.D.C. It has worked out pretty well.

Mark

I tried to make the case a while back that Mega Damage should be called Hecto Damage, since the scientific international standard of mega is 1 million, not 100, and "Hecto" is the proper prefix for 100.

What you're proposing would be Deca Damage.

But it isn't Mega as in Megabyte it is Mega as in Megalith.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Hotrod wrote:

shihansmurf wrote:I agree. I house rule a category of Heavy Damage Capacity or H.D.C. for personal level weapons and armor. H.D.C. is equal to 10 S.D.C. It has worked out pretty well.

Mark

I tried to make the case a while back that Mega Damage should be called Hecto Damage, since the scientific international standard of mega is 1 million, not 100, and "Hecto" is the proper prefix for 100.

What you're proposing would be Deca Damage.

But it isn't Mega as in Megabyte it is Mega as in Megalith.

Yeah, I know. I'm just a nerd who works with scientific notation a lot.

Hotrod wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Hotrod wrote:

shihansmurf wrote:I agree. I house rule a category of Heavy Damage Capacity or H.D.C. for personal level weapons and armor. H.D.C. is equal to 10 S.D.C. It has worked out pretty well.

Mark

I tried to make the case a while back that Mega Damage should be called Hecto Damage, since the scientific international standard of mega is 1 million, not 100, and "Hecto" is the proper prefix for 100.

What you're proposing would be Deca Damage.

But it isn't Mega as in Megabyte it is Mega as in Megalith.

Yeah, I know. I'm just a nerd who works with scientific notation a lot.

... But Megalith is science.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Hotrod wrote:Yeah, I know. I'm just a nerd who works with scientific notation a lot.

... But Megalith is science.

Megalith is a term of archeology, which is... well... I guess it depends on who you ask. Sometimes it manifests as one of the humanities, sometimes it uses scientific measurements, and sometimes it manifests as a social science.

I once had a professor who said "anything that has 'science' in its name isn't."

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Jack Burton wrote:Here's a question... I'd like to use some Rifts stuff for Heroes Unlimited, but the whole M.D.C. thing seems to be omnipresent. I know 100 S.D.C. = 1 M.D.C. Is there something more to it than that?

That's most of what there is to Mega-Damage, except that it has to be 100 SDC in one attack from one person/whatever in order to damage MDC items.
Also, 1 MD can inflict more damage or less damage than 100 SDC depending on which rules you use from which book.

Some people nerf mega-damage down to 1:10 instead of 1:100. That would likely work better for HU.

I mean, isn't there a whole book dedicated to converting things form Rifts to other settings? Can it be that simple? Why a conversion book if it's just that simple? Maybe the book covers other things than the damage conversion. Thanks.

The Rifts setting itself is more powerful than most other settings, due to the ley lines. So certain super powers get augmented in the Rifts setting, as well as many kinds of critters and certain character classes.
Yes, the Conversion books (Conversion Book 1, Conversion Book 1 revised, and Dark Conversions) do change more than just SDC to MDC at a 100:1 ratio.

liked it better when it was 100SDC from a single attack when that meant a .50 cal couldn't do anything no matter how many bullets were shot because each round couldn't do 100SDC. Darn .50 cal fans.

I don't think that it ever meant that.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Jack Burton wrote:Here's a question... I'd like to use some Rifts stuff for Heroes Unlimited, but the whole M.D.C. thing seems to be omnipresent. I know 100 S.D.C. = 1 M.D.C. Is there something more to it than that?

That's most of what there is to Mega-Damage, except that it has to be 100 SDC in one attack from one person/whatever in order to damage MDC items.
Also, 1 MD can inflict more damage or less damage than 100 SDC depending on which rules you use from which book.

Some people nerf mega-damage down to 1:10 instead of 1:100. That would likely work better for HU.

I mean, isn't there a whole book dedicated to converting things form Rifts to other settings? Can it be that simple? Why a conversion book if it's just that simple? Maybe the book covers other things than the damage conversion. Thanks.

The Rifts setting itself is more powerful than most other settings, due to the ley lines. So certain super powers get augmented in the Rifts setting, as well as many kinds of critters and certain character classes.
Yes, the Conversion books (Conversion Book 1, Conversion Book 1 revised, and Dark Conversions) do change more than just SDC to MDC at a 100:1 ratio.

liked it better when it was 100SDC from a single attack when that meant a .50 cal couldn't do anything no matter how many bullets were shot because each round couldn't do 100SDC. Darn .50 cal fans.

I don't think that it ever meant that.

OOOOOLD... RT book, IIRC. Stated that a machinegun no matter how many bullets you fired at an MDC object couldn't do any damage, no matter how bullets you shot, except maybe scratch the paint, because a single round doesn't do 100 SDC. Then notes that explosives could. Something about grouping explosives together is a single blast.

Hotrod wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Hotrod wrote:Yeah, I know. I'm just a nerd who works with scientific notation a lot.

... But Megalith is science.

Megalith is a term of archeology, which is... well... I guess it depends on who you ask. Sometimes it manifests as one of the humanities, sometimes it uses scientific measurements, and sometimes it manifests as a social science.

I once had a professor who said "anything that has 'science' in its name isn't."

... stop making me laugh at work.

Wait so does that mean scientific notation, scientific measurement and scientific method... aren't

It is like my professors told me about Christian Science. They are neither Christians nor Scientist. I wonder if that makes them like Bill Nye? Just enthusiasts.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Hotrod wrote:I once had a professor who said "anything that has 'science' in its name isn't."

... stop making me laugh at work.

Wait so does that mean scientific notation, scientific measurement and scientific method... aren't

It is like my professors told me about Christian Science. They are neither Christians nor Scientist. I wonder if that makes them like Bill Nye? Just enthusiasts.

I may be misquoting the professor above; more likely, he said that "any subject that has 'science' in its name isn't." In the conversation, he was referring to subjects like political science, computer science, social science... really just about any subject described as "_____ science."

I don't know jack about Christian Science, but the "religious science" of Scientology seems to fit your description.
Bill Nye has lost his way. (might not want to click on this link from work)

Hotrod wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Hotrod wrote:I once had a professor who said "anything that has 'science' in its name isn't."

... stop making me laugh at work.

Wait so does that mean scientific notation, scientific measurement and scientific method... aren't

It is like my professors told me about Christian Science. They are neither Christians nor Scientist. I wonder if that makes them like Bill Nye? Just enthusiasts.

I may be misquoting the professor above; more likely, he said that "any subject that has 'science' in its name isn't." In the conversation, he was referring to subjects like political science, computer science, social science... really just about any subject described as "_____ science."

I don't know jack about Christian Science, but the "religious science" of Scientology seems to fit your description.
Bill Nye has lost his way. (might not want to click on this link from work)

WOW. I wish I could unwatch what I just watched. Thanks, Hotrod.... HAHAHAHAHA

Hotrod wrote:Bill Nye has lost his way. (might not want to click on this link from work)

They weren't...They weren't even being ironic. They were serious!

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Jack Burton wrote:Here's a question... I'd like to use some Rifts stuff for Heroes Unlimited, but the whole M.D.C. thing seems to be omnipresent. I know 100 S.D.C. = 1 M.D.C. Is there something more to it than that?

That's most of what there is to Mega-Damage, except that it has to be 100 SDC in one attack from one person/whatever in order to damage MDC items.
Also, 1 MD can inflict more damage or less damage than 100 SDC depending on which rules you use from which book.

Some people nerf mega-damage down to 1:10 instead of 1:100. That would likely work better for HU.

I mean, isn't there a whole book dedicated to converting things form Rifts to other settings? Can it be that simple? Why a conversion book if it's just that simple? Maybe the book covers other things than the damage conversion. Thanks.

The Rifts setting itself is more powerful than most other settings, due to the ley lines. So certain super powers get augmented in the Rifts setting, as well as many kinds of critters and certain character classes.
Yes, the Conversion books (Conversion Book 1, Conversion Book 1 revised, and Dark Conversions) do change more than just SDC to MDC at a 100:1 ratio.

liked it better when it was 100SDC from a single attack when that meant a .50 cal couldn't do anything no matter how many bullets were shot because each round couldn't do 100SDC. Darn .50 cal fans.

I don't think that it ever meant that.

OOOOOLD... RT book, IIRC. Stated that a machinegun no matter how many bullets you fired at an MDC object couldn't do any damage, no matter how bullets you shot, except maybe scratch the paint, because a single round doesn't do 100 SDC. Then notes that explosives could. Something about grouping explosives together is a single blast.

My 4th printing of the RMB says the same thing, only using Rifts-related terms in place of the Robotech-related terms in a couple spots.

The Beast wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:OOOOOLD... RT book, IIRC. Stated that a machinegun no matter how many bullets you fired at an MDC object couldn't do any damage, no matter how bullets you shot, except maybe scratch the paint, because a single round doesn't do 100 SDC. Then notes that explosives could. Something about grouping explosives together is a single blast.

My 4th printing of the RMB says the same thing, only using Rifts-related terms in place of the Robotech-related terms in a couple spots.

Yet both Rifts has machineguns that inflict mega-damage on a burst, but seemingly not on a single shot:
RMB 226-227
The machineguns for the ATV Speedster, the Wastelander Motorcycle, and the Highway-Man Motorcycle inflict 1d4 MD with a burst of 50 rounds. Which doesn't seem likely unless each individual round inflicts less than 1 MD.
I mean, the alternative is that out of that burst of 50 rounds, only 1-4 (or fewer!) out of 50 rounds hits the target. Which doesn't seem likely.


RMB 11 says "Most conventional weapons do absolutely no damage to a mega-damage structure, even when combined for a total of 100 or more (See example)."
This is followed by an example of multiple shooters inflicting 300 SDC and doing no damage to the two Dead Boys they were shooting at.

Robotech 7 says "Most conventional weapons do absolutely no damage to a mega-structure, even when combined."
This wording is clearer, because it's talking about weapons being combined.
This section is followed by an example in which a Gladiator fights a group of 30 rebel bandits, and "everybody hits at least three times."
So, again, multiple shooters firing multiple times. Not just one burst.

I don't know of any time in either game setting where a book discusses a single non-explosive weapon inflicting 100+ SDC to a Mega-Damage target.

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:

Hotrod wrote:Bill Nye has lost his way. (might not want to click on this link from work)

They weren't...They weren't even being ironic. They were serious!

Yep. That was part of his "Bill Nye Saves the World" show on Netflix. It's sad, because his recent stuff on GMOs, vaccines, and conspiracy theories covers some important topics in a responsible way, but honestly, he's not an expert on any scientific topic, and he seems to get a great deal of attention on all topics of his choosing in lieu of people who actually study those fields in depth. Your average local meteorologist is far more knowledgeable on climate change than he is.

Hotrod wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Hotrod wrote:I once had a professor who said "anything that has 'science' in its name isn't."

... stop making me laugh at work.

Wait so does that mean scientific notation, scientific measurement and scientific method... aren't

It is like my professors told me about Christian Science. They are neither Christians nor Scientist. I wonder if that makes them like Bill Nye? Just enthusiasts.

I may be misquoting the professor above; more likely, he said that "any subject that has 'science' in its name isn't." In the conversation, he was referring to subjects like political science, computer science, social science... really just about any subject described as "_____ science."

I don't know jack about Christian Science, but the "religious science" of Scientology seems to fit your description.
Bill Nye has lost his way. (might not want to click on this link from work)

That is definitely true about the "science" with the science in its name. It's like it has to convince you. Well maybe except for computer science... then again that should be more computer engineering or development but it is closer to a science than social science or political as both of those seem more like arts as repeating the same "experiment" will provide a different result each time. That seems pretty anti-science to me.

As for Christian Science...
-Matter is illusory
-Death, disease and sickness are illusory
-Only the mental and spiritual are real
-Go is all-in-all. God is good. God is Mind all else doesn't really exist except God
-Jesus Christ being matter was just the highest concept of the divine idea
-As death is just a state of mind and matter isn't real Christs death and Resurrection are meaningless, his non-death and illusory, non-divine, blood, then, can't atone for the sins of the world
-The Holy spirit is thought itself rather than a person of the Trinity
-Sin and evil are illusion

Neither science nor Christian.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

The Beast wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:OOOOOLD... RT book, IIRC. Stated that a machinegun no matter how many bullets you fired at an MDC object couldn't do any damage, no matter how bullets you shot, except maybe scratch the paint, because a single round doesn't do 100 SDC. Then notes that explosives could. Something about grouping explosives together is a single blast.

My 4th printing of the RMB says the same thing, only using Rifts-related terms in place of the Robotech-related terms in a couple spots.

Yet both Rifts has machineguns that inflict mega-damage on a burst, but seemingly not on a single shot:
RMB 226-227
The machineguns for the ATV Speedster, the Wastelander Motorcycle, and the Highway-Man Motorcycle inflict 1d4 MD with a burst of 50 rounds. Which doesn't seem likely unless each individual round inflicts less than 1 MD.
I mean, the alternative is that out of that burst of 50 rounds, only 1-4 (or fewer!) out of 50 rounds hits the target. Which doesn't seem likely.


RMB 11 says "Most conventional weapons do absolutely no damage to a mega-damage structure, even when combined for a total of 100 or more (See example)."
This is followed by an example of multiple shooters inflicting 300 SDC and doing no damage to the two Dead Boys they were shooting at.

Robotech 7 says "Most conventional weapons do absolutely no damage to a mega-structure, even when combined."
This wording is clearer, because it's talking about weapons being combined.
This section is followed by an example in which a Gladiator fights a group of 30 rebel bandits, and "everybody hits at least three times."
So, again, multiple shooters firing multiple times. Not just one burst.

I don't know of any time in either game setting where a book discusses a single non-explosive weapon inflicting 100+ SDC to a Mega-Damage target.

Darn... now I'm going to have to read my books tonight.

Hotrod wrote:

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:

Hotrod wrote:Bill Nye has lost his way. (might not want to click on this link from work)

They weren't...They weren't even being ironic. They were serious!

Yep. That was part of his "Bill Nye Saves the World" show on Netflix. It's sad, because his recent stuff on GMOs, vaccines, and conspiracy theories covers some important topics in a responsible way, but honestly, he's not an expert on any scientific topic, and he seems to get a great deal of attention on all topics of his choosing in lieu of people who actually study those fields in depth. Your average local meteorologist is far more knowledgeable on climate change than he is.

yeah, i started watching that series. found it to often be extremely shallow, one-sided, and not that great on the science end of things, so i stopped watching. hadn't reached the episode just linked, but he must have a new writing team and they're really not that great.