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Do the various powers that enhance ones rate of healing (Healing Factor, Super Regeneration, Divine Healing) count as natural healing when dealing with effects that state something along the lines of "can't be healed naturally... only through magical or psionic means"? Does this include the instant bio-regeneration portion of some of these powers that can instantly heal some damage (in a manner similar to some instant heal spells/magic and psionic powers)?

While I am inclined to consider these powers "natural" for the individual in question, the effects I am speaking of seem intended for individuals with more normal levels of healing. Against individuals with faster healing times... such effects might not be as effective (but by the same token, not completely ineffective either). They seem intended to limit the amount of healing people can normally do without some sort of outside enhancement (usually magical or psionic) but don't specify how they interact with powers that enhance ones normal healing abilities.

Personally... I am inclined to think that while these powers are "natural" to the hero involved... they are not completely negated by such effects, though their natural healing is slowed considerably (by at least half of what is "normal" for such individuals; including the instantaneous bio-regenerative portions of such powers). I think this is fair... it doesn't completely negate the enhanced healing of some heroes but also doesn't treat them as completely normal for such effects that were never really designed specifically for them (at least it isn't specifically mentioned by such effects).

Of course there may be instances where such effects are specifically intended for such enhanced healing abilities... in which case this becomes a moot point (as it specifies that such powers are affected), but those are even more rare than just the general version of this situation.

I guess it boils down to what one considers "natural" healing.

I might set the bar at when the healing is an instant or heal vs time...it is not natural for the consideration of when an effect (mystic or nuclear) limits the being to natural healing.

But if it is a multiplier that modifies the natural healing rate it does apply.

Razorwing wrote:Do the various powers that enhance ones rate of healing (Healing Factor, Super Regeneration, Divine Healing) count as natural healing when dealing with effects that state something along the lines of "can't be healed naturally... only through magical or psionic means"? Does this include the instant bio-regeneration portion of some of these powers that can instantly heal some damage (in a manner similar to some instant heal spells/magic and psionic powers)?

While I am inclined to consider these powers "natural" for the individual in question, the effects I am speaking of seem intended for individuals with more normal levels of healing. Against individuals with faster healing times... such effects might not be as effective (but by the same token, not completely ineffective either). They seem intended to limit the amount of healing people can normally do without some sort of outside enhancement (usually magical or psionic) but don't specify how they interact with powers that enhance ones normal healing abilities.

Personally... I am inclined to think that while these powers are "natural" to the hero involved... they are not completely negated by such effects, though their natural healing is slowed considerably (by at least half of what is "normal" for such individuals; including the instantaneous bio-regenerative portions of such powers). I think this is fair... it doesn't completely negate the enhanced healing of some heroes but also doesn't treat them as completely normal for such effects that were never really designed specifically for them (at least it isn't specifically mentioned by such effects).

Of course there may be instances where such effects are specifically intended for such enhanced healing abilities... in which case this becomes a moot point (as it specifies that such powers are affected), but those are even more rare than just the general version of this situation.

I guess it boils down to what one considers "natural" healing.

In my opinion (and what I use in my games) is that natural healing is this
Healing, not regeneration, which occurs via those means that do not require external agencies; conscious control, will or desire; and can not be negated or neutralized via blocking.
Thus a super power is not natural healing unless said super power is provided in a way that it is immune to the Negate Super Ability power. Bio-regeneration is not, to me 'healing' as it is supernatural in its effects.
However, if you have, for example, a martial artist whos training ends up with "heals at three times the normal rate" then that counts... its not regeneration, its not dependent on super powers, psionics, magic, chi powers or what have you... it just relies on them not being dead.

I think it depends on the character category. Aliens or mutants with superpowers that are part of their natural physiology might have these abilities considered natural, whereas an experiment or bestowed character would not.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:I think it depends on the character category. Aliens or mutants with superpowers that are part of their natural physiology might have these abilities considered natural, whereas an experiment or bestowed character would not.

I will note that as a GM I am willing to discuss letting mutants have some of their super powers be 'natural abilities' and not 'super powers' (ala aliens) so they cant be turned off.
I.e. you have wings because your a mutant, and no one can come along and negate that.
I would be fine with healing factor for the same reason.
I would be a bit more leery if someone wanted to have EE:Fire, but I would be willing to talk.

I have to admit... I am a little surprised that people don't see powers like Healing Factor or similar powers that enhance healing as being "Natural"... as in that there is no outside force other than their own body repairing the damage. I was sure that many here would state that even though the character is healing faster... it is still "natural" healing (natural for them, though enhanced when compared to the normal rate of recovery for base-line humans).

To be honest... I still see this as natural healing because it is the body repairing itself... just at an accelerated rate. Effects that would normally prevent a normal level of healing from happening don't always take into account such accelerated rates of healing, which is why I would deem them only partially effective (they slow down such enhanced healing but can't completely negate it)... save on the rare occasions when such effects specifically target things like enhanced healing rates (like when an effect like this is designed to deal with supernatural beings and their usually accelerated rates of healing).

I was just curious if anyone else saw these powers (when dealing with these kind of effects to limit healing) in a similar light. I guess there are still some things on this forum that can surprise me... which is why I keep coming back.

It is because some of us (I know I am) are taking in some text from rifts that talk about how U rounds stop the 'natural' regeneration powers of the SN & CoM (edit: and spells that block regeneration from healing their damage). And how said damage has to heal """naturally""" instead of being ""naturally"" regenerated.

Razorwing wrote:I have to admit... I am a little surprised that people don't see powers like Healing Factor or similar powers that enhance healing as being "Natural"... as in that there is no outside force other than their own body repairing the damage. I was sure that many here would state that even though the character is healing faster... it is still "natural" healing (natural for them, though enhanced when compared to the normal rate of recovery for base-line humans).

To be honest... I still see this as natural healing because it is the body repairing itself... just at an accelerated rate. Effects that would normally prevent a normal level of healing from happening don't always take into account such accelerated rates of healing, which is why I would deem them only partially effective (they slow down such enhanced healing but can't completely negate it)... save on the rare occasions when such effects specifically target things like enhanced healing rates (like when an effect like this is designed to deal with supernatural beings and their usually accelerated rates of healing).

I was just curious if anyone else saw these powers (when dealing with these kind of effects to limit healing) in a similar light. I guess there are still some things on this forum that can surprise me... which is why I keep coming back.

It's because the healing is not natural, as in not a standard feature of the species the individual is part of. Which is why Wolverine does NOT do well with mutant power inhibitor collars or power-negating super-powers. The only thing he's got left that works is his ability to extend and retract his claws, his ability to heal goes because it's a direct aspect of his mutation so it's not natural.

Nightmask wrote:

Razorwing wrote:I have to admit... I am a little surprised that people don't see powers like Healing Factor or similar powers that enhance healing as being "Natural"... as in that there is no outside force other than their own body repairing the damage. I was sure that many here would state that even though the character is healing faster... it is still "natural" healing (natural for them, though enhanced when compared to the normal rate of recovery for base-line humans).

To be honest... I still see this as natural healing because it is the body repairing itself... just at an accelerated rate. Effects that would normally prevent a normal level of healing from happening don't always take into account such accelerated rates of healing, which is why I would deem them only partially effective (they slow down such enhanced healing but can't completely negate it)... save on the rare occasions when such effects specifically target things like enhanced healing rates (like when an effect like this is designed to deal with supernatural beings and their usually accelerated rates of healing).

I was just curious if anyone else saw these powers (when dealing with these kind of effects to limit healing) in a similar light. I guess there are still some things on this forum that can surprise me... which is why I keep coming back.

It's because the healing is not natural, as in not a standard feature of the species the individual is part of. Which is why Wolverine does NOT do well with mutant power inhibitor collars or power-negating super-powers. The only thing he's got left that works is his ability to extend and retract his claws, his ability to heal goes because it's a direct aspect of his mutation so it's not natural.

With Wolverine they still don't make loss of his healing factor enough of an issue. He pops the claws out of his skin, so there should be more bleeding involved when his healing factor is turned off due to the claws ripping otherwise solid skin.

Unless it's like a piercing... which sometimes it is... until it isn't.


Daniel Stoker

I think it is all a matter of what one considers "natural".

Natural doesn't always means something that every member of a race possesses. Not every member of the human race possesses blue eyes... yet blue eyes are still considered natural. Not everyone has dark skin... yet it is still seen as natural.

Natural means that it is what a person has without outside influence. Powers are natural... for some humans in this setting at least... in that they are a part of who the person is... their genetic make up if you will... and can not be removed without outside interference. Just because a device can nullify a person's power doesn't mean that it isn't natural. Sure, it doesn't always work on Aliens who have had similar abilities for generations, but chances are that if they have advanced technology (or advanced magic/psionics), they have means of nullifying such abilities in their own species.

Without the assistance of a Doctor and medical facilities, the healing rate or most people is 2 HP and 4 SDC per day. To those with faster recuperative abilities, that rate can become as high as 2d6 HP/SDC every 15 seconds, but still without the assistance of a Doctor (or healing spells/psionic powers). To me, this is still natural healing, since the individual in question isn't receiving any aid to their recover other than what their body provides naturally. It doesn't matter if this rate of recovery can be turned off with a technological device as that is an unnatural inhibitor of their natural ability... just as using spells or psionic powers to speed up recovery is an unnatural accelerator of their natural ability.

If you consider it unnatural just because something outside the body can turn it off... then there is nothing natural about anything a person has. Put a bag over one's head and you can stop them from breathing... does that make breathing unnatural? One can blindfold another... does that mean sight is unnatural? Of course not. Just because someone invented a device that can nullify powers in humans in the setting doesn't mean that the powers aren't natural... any more than the fact that having blue eyes instead of brown is unnatural (though wearing colored contacts to make your blue eyes look brown is unnatural).

It really is a matter of perspective. Just because one person has something that another person doesn't have doesn't mean that it isn't natural (for the person who has it).

Under the Kaluga Hag in Mystic Russia it states bio-regeneration counts as natural healing.