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Killer Cyborg wrote:IIRC, bullets enchanted via this spell are one-time use only, in which case I'd rule that they have to be enchanted on the cartridge level when applicable. So with modern shotguns at least, you'd enchant an entire shotgun shell which would function as one weapon regardless of the number of pellets within it.

Mack wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:IIRC, bullets enchanted via this spell are one-time use only, in which case I'd rule that they have to be enchanted on the cartridge level when applicable. So with modern shotguns at least, you'd enchant an entire shotgun shell which would function as one weapon regardless of the number of pellets within it.

I think we're in agreement here. I wouldn't allow someone to enchant 72 shotgun shells in a single casting. It would be one casting (400 PPE) for each shell.

eliakon wrote:I would say no.
My reasoning is that as soon as you pack the pellets inside the shell they stop being their own weapon and the spell is dispelled.
Magic follows rules of magical logic. That is why magic is based on elements for example, or why light is healing and so many other 'conceptual' ideas. And one of those conceptual ideas is that a weapon is a weapon. Not a part.
Thus to be a weapon an object must itself be the weapon not simply a sub-munition of the weapon. If you want though you can research a "Enchant Sub-Munitions" spell...

The main reason here is that I am cutting the nose off of this camel before it gets into the tent. I have no interest in hand weapons doing billions of points of damage in my game and thus I am quick to nip such shenanigans off in the bud.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:1) KISS factor. there would be too much paperwork to do to allow this. the GM needing to be there for all the enchantments rolls for each of the pellets.

dragonfett wrote:Yeah, then you sacrifice PPE to make it a permanent enchantment, or it loses it's enchantment in 1 month/caster level, and you have to wait 3 months before you can cast the spell again.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

dragonfett wrote:Yeah, then you sacrifice PPE to make it a permanent enchantment, or it loses it's enchantment in 1 month/caster level, and you have to wait 3 months before you can cast the spell again.

This is only if you use the Rifts' (mis-named) Enchant Weapon (minor) invocation.
If using the enchant weapon spells from NB durations range from days to months to perm. And they work differently (less stupidly in my opinion) then the rifts invocation. These enchant the projectile weapon itself and it co-ops the ammunition into the magic.
Yes, the limitation is that they only give extra damage vs the SN. But when monster hunting, this is not a downside when considering the possibility of freindly fire will not be as bad to the mortals on the team. The down side it that there is no extra damage when the weapon is turned on mechanics.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:It is level 15 and it is called "(minor)".

dreicunan wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:It is level 15 and it is called "(minor)".

Fair enough. I always figured that the "minor" was to distinguish distinguish the weapons it produces from major ones like what alchemists make or rune weapons, not the spell itsekf, but I can see your point.

Axelmania wrote:What about railgun rounds which don't come in casing? The SAMAS railgun for example, 40 rounds of 1D4 hitting for 1D4x10 (equivalent to 10 single shots)

Mack wrote:

Axelmania wrote:What about railgun rounds which don't come in casing? The SAMAS railgun for example, 40 rounds of 1D4 hitting for 1D4x10 (equivalent to 10 single shots)

I believe the spell's text addresses that.

Mack wrote:That’s one thing I was internally debating: the way the sentences are structured I’m not sure if the repeat casting limitation is for just permanent enchantments or for both temporary and permanent.

Book of Magic p152 wrote:When the ritual is performed, any one melee weapon, 48 bolts/arrows or 72 bullets can be infused with mystical energy.

torjones wrote:Nothing in Enchant Weapon (Minor) suggests any minimum size, so I vote yes, it's possible, just not necessarily feasible.

Book of Magic p152 wrote:When the ritual is performed, any one melee weapon, 48 bolts/arrows or 72 bullets can be infused with mystical energy.

Given that, I would say that you'd be limited to 72 pellets, and I might even double the number for something like birdshot if it weren't for the line that said bullets regardless of caliber do 2d6 each. The reason that I would rule this way is that #00 buckshot is basically the same diameter as a 9mm slug, and nobody would say that a 9mm slug shouldn't be able to be enchanted under this spell. Since they are essentially the same thing, I see no reason not to allow it.

Get much smaller than #00 buckshot, and you need too many pellets to make up a load for the spell to be cost-effective. It's 400 PPE for 72 pellets @ 2d6 each. That shotgun shell loaded with birdshot may do a whole mess of damage, but how many of the things can you afford to make, and how often? Especially considering that they only remain enchanted for 1 month/level.

dreicunan wrote:Well, get yourself a Techno-wizard and a Black Garnet, have it only cast in the temporary version, so it's a 4000 ppe construction cost, then get yourself a 5 caret black garnet and the activation cost is only 40 ppe. 8 carets is 25 ppe activation cost, and 10 carets is 20 ppe. If the limitation is read to only affect you when you make them permanent, then you could produce enough shells to be of concern to people.

Or just make a bunch of them as ley line devices and not have to worry about spending your ppe on them.