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just been looking through PU2 and i came across the upgraded supersoldier options.upon reading more deeply i found that both the Crazy and juicer have,as far as i can tell,identical HU versions...but theres also a third option which i thought was really good.Endoskeletal Replacement.i think its better than the other 2 options in some ways and thought id look into the rifts version,but there doesnt seem to be one like there is the juicer and crazy...or is there? is there? someone tell me...um,please.

Partial Conversion Cyborg is what I'd call it.
Or a heavily cybernetic'ed OCC.

you can call it that,but it isnt...it has a full robotic frame,giving it robotic strength.t isnt cybernetic.ok it has some implants but thats not the thrust,as it were.it has its own,human flesh,blood and muscle sheathing the frame so it doesnt suffer from the dehumanisation that a cyborg does.not as powerful as a cyborg but as far as the juicer/crazy level goes,its certainly on par.plus it doesnt go crazy or have a limited life span and its totally undetectable by usual standards.perfect enhanced agent.but ok,i guess youre telling me its not in rifts and a cyber is the closest match.it should be in rifts though.

i believe there is an option in the bionics sourcebook for a cyborg that looks almost (or perhaps entirely) human, but has many of the typical properties associated with full conversion cyborgs. i have no idea what it's called, and i've only heard of such a thing because i do not personally own the book in question nor have any of my friends.

it may be what you're looking for, based on your description.

iteration27 wrote:you can call it that,but it isnt...it has a full robotic frame,giving it robotic strength.t isnt cybernetic.ok it has some implants but thats not the thrust,as it were.it has its own,human flesh,blood and muscle sheathing the frame so it doesnt suffer from the dehumanisation that a cyborg does.not as powerful as a cyborg but as far as the juicer/crazy level goes,its certainly on par.plus it doesnt go crazy or have a limited life span and its totally undetectable by usual standards.perfect enhanced agent.but ok,i guess youre telling me its not in rifts and a cyber is the closest match.it should be in rifts though.

I don't know if there's a package, but the piecemeal version can be put together. Bionics sourcebook p. 32, each limb (4), the rib cage, pelvis, spine, and cranium must be replaced for the whole skeleton to be affected.

iteration27 wrote:you can call it that,but it isnt...it has a full robotic frame,giving it robotic strength.t isnt cybernetic.ok it has some implants but thats not the thrust,as it were.it has its own,human flesh,blood and muscle sheathing the frame so it doesnt suffer from the dehumanisation that a cyborg does.not as powerful as a cyborg but as far as the juicer/crazy level goes,its certainly on par.plus it doesnt go crazy or have a limited life span and its totally undetectable by usual standards.perfect enhanced agent.but ok,i guess youre telling me its not in rifts and a cyber is the closest match.it should be in rifts though.

I don't see why you couldn't use the HU mod....aside from the skill set, it would be the same.
I imagine it didn't make the cut to its own Rifts form because Juicers and Crazies are much more dynamic and have the whole drawback thing going....short lives and insanity and all that, while Exoskeletal Cyborgs got the whole lose sense of touch and humanity.
If you want to look human, though, Cyberhumanoid Full Conversion is your best bet.

Khanibal wrote:I don't know if there's a package, but the piecemeal version can be put together. Bionics sourcebook p. 32, each limb (4), the rib cage, pelvis, spine, and cranium must be replaced for the whole skeleton to be affected.

Sorry, I misspoke. Spinal replacement is SDC only, unless you go full-conversion.

yeah i wasnt looking for a cybernetic equivalent,just thought it would be in rifts as is.i can be pretty picky about things.i like the fact that its an actual robotic frame,stronger than cybernetics...inferior to a borg cos of a lower functional MDC.yeah i can just port it over if i fancy it.

yeah i like the fact that it looked fully human and was much harder to detect than cybernetics,without some kind of bio-scan or surgery as the structure is MDC ceramics and buried inside a fully human body,with only a few basic cyber senses to mark it as unusual in anyway(not unusual for rifts i guess).

the other options are fine,but i probably will add it to rifts

Actually there's already an MDC rating for the 'unbreakable skeleton' in the original Powers Unlimited description for the ERS.

yes its 200 MDC but as a skeleton it really doesnt provide MDC protection as all the squishy bits would be obliterated by most MDC attacks killing the character and leaving a smoking skeleton,id assume...but it does make the characters bones effectively unbreakable in most normal bone breaking situations.

iteration27 wrote:yes its 200 MDC but as a skeleton it really doesnt provide MDC protection as all the squishy bits would be obliterated by most MDC attacks killing the character and leaving a smoking skeleton,id assume...but it does make the characters bones effectively unbreakable in most normal bone breaking situations.

Makes for interesting trophies in the Evil Overlord's sitting room.

But it also makes it rather inconvenient under those circumstances when you just HAVE to amputate a limb or two. (cringe) .

maybe i'll reconsider...

taalismn wrote:But it also makes it rather inconvenient under those circumstances when you just HAVE to amputate a limb or two. (cringe) .

"Critical integrity failure in left glove. Atmosphere loss detected. Sealing wrist iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Sealing elbow iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Sealing shoulder iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Atmosphere loss detected. Atmosphere tank at 32% and falling."

There's a full-conversion Cyborg in the Bionics Sourcebook that is almost exactly this - the Cyber-humanoid.

Full-conversion Cyborg that looks totally human, complete with living bio-system flesh/skin, hair, etc.

Was it Cyberpunk 2020 (tm, etc) that had the brain pod? Basically the brain went in a jar, and it could be inserted into either a full war machine body, or a flesh like body, when off duty.

iteration27 wrote:just been looking through PU2 and i came across the upgraded supersoldier options.upon reading more deeply i found that both the Crazy and juicer have,as far as i can tell,identical HU versions...but theres also a third option which i thought was really good.Endoskeletal Replacement.i think its better than the other 2 options in some ways and thought id look into the rifts version,but there doesnt seem to be one like there is the juicer and crazy...or is there? is there? someone tell me...um,please.

I'm not quite sure what your looking for (I don't have PU2) as the Cyborg options would seem to have what you are describing covered. The only other option I can think of is something like a mental transference Robot (SB1 or WB5) or a Mechanoid (SB2, alien race).

Khanibal wrote:Was it Cyberpunk 2020 (tm, etc) that had the brain pod? Basically the brain went in a jar, and it could be inserted into either a full war machine body, or a flesh like body, when off duty.

Yes.

Khanibal wrote:

taalismn wrote:But it also makes it rather inconvenient under those circumstances when you just HAVE to amputate a limb or two. (cringe) .

"Critical integrity failure in left glove. Atmosphere loss detected. Sealing wrist iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Sealing elbow iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Sealing shoulder iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Atmosphere loss detected. Atmosphere tank at 32% and falling."

Oh, and those nasty nanotech infections....

Or something as simple as getting your arm stuck under a security door with Sunaj closing in.
It prevents you from pulling the awesomely cool but extremely painful move done by the ninja in Full Metal Alchemist when she cuts off her own mutilated arm, and ties it to a dog to decoy the relentless Wrath from tracking her down....

also the long leg bones make all of your red blood cells, so without those, you die or need constant blood transfusions. good luck with that?

slade2501 wrote:also the long leg bones make all of your red blood cells, so without those, you die or need constant blood transfusions. good luck with that?

Technically it's the bone marrow that does it and there is no inherent reason that they couldn't install or implant the marrow either in the new alloy bones, or in special marrow organs that effectively do the same function.

the description of them replacing the bones makes the marrow thing tricky, since marrow isn't just a material located in the center of the bones, it is part of a complex set of tissues of which the bone itself is an important part.

this is why i generally assume that instead of replacing the bone they actually 'cover' the bone, layering on the protective stuff over it and sticking a few reinforcements through it.

given the entry seems inspired by Wolverine's adamantium this fits better IMO anyway, since his skeleton wasn't replaced, just 'enhanced' with a covering of the metal.

glitterboy2098 wrote:the description of them replacing the bones makes the marrow thing tricky, since marrow isn't just a material located in the center of the bones, it is part of a complex set of tissues of which the bone itself is an important part.

this is why i generally assume that instead of replacing the bone they actually 'cover' the bone, layering on the protective stuff over it and sticking a few reinforcements through it.

given the entry seems inspired by Wolverine's adamantium this fits better IMO anyway, since his skeleton wasn't replaced, just 'enhanced' with a covering of the metal.

Weve already made synthetic bones with functional marrow:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/21 ... ts-marrow/

I dont find it hard to believe that Rifts Borgs have something similar.

Khanibal wrote:

taalismn wrote:But it also makes it rather inconvenient under those circumstances when you just HAVE to amputate a limb or two. (cringe) .

"Critical integrity failure in left glove. Atmosphere loss detected. Sealing wrist iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Sealing elbow iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Sealing shoulder iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Atmosphere loss detected. Atmosphere tank at 32% and falling."

Umm.. would a suit not have a air supply not atmosphere. Atmosphere being a layer of gasses(air) around a planet, in a general sphere shape. It drives me crazy when they call the air in a ship atmosphere instead of air to make it sound more sifi.

Blue_Lion wrote:

Khanibal wrote:

taalismn wrote:But it also makes it rather inconvenient under those circumstances when you just HAVE to amputate a limb or two. (cringe) .

"Critical integrity failure in left glove. Atmosphere loss detected. Sealing wrist iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Sealing elbow iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Sealing shoulder iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Atmosphere loss detected. Atmosphere tank at 32% and falling."

Umm.. would a suit not have a air supply not atmosphere. Atmosphere being a layer of gasses(air) around a planet, in a general sphere shape. It drives me crazy when they call the air in a ship atmosphere instead of air to make it sound more sifi.

I (and I assume the sci-fi 'they' you referred to) used atmosphere as a measurement of pressure.

Khanibal wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

Khanibal wrote:

taalismn wrote:But it also makes it rather inconvenient under those circumstances when you just HAVE to amputate a limb or two. (cringe) .

"Critical integrity failure in left glove. Atmosphere loss detected. Sealing wrist iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Sealing elbow iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Sealing shoulder iris aperture. WARNING! iris failure. Atmosphere loss detected. Atmosphere tank at 32% and falling."

Umm.. would a suit not have a air supply not atmosphere. Atmosphere being a layer of gasses(air) around a planet, in a general sphere shape. It drives me crazy when they call the air in a ship atmosphere instead of air to make it sound more sifi.

I (and I assume the sci-fi 'they' you referred to) used atmosphere as a measurement of pressure.

The way you used it does not appear to match using it as a unit of measure to me as you used singular(used as a unit of measure for air pressure is typically atmospheres plural if you have more than one). If your tank held pressure equal to air at sea level you would not have a very long air supply.
You specified atmosphere tank- that does not match a reference to pressure but appears to be calling what the tank stores as atmosphere.

"Critical integrity failure in left glove. Loss of pressure detected. Sealing X Y, Z. Loss of pressure detected. Pressure tank at 32% and falling."-The tank does not appear to fit being used as a reference to pressure but calling the tank pressure. Oxygen supply, air supply would seam to fit better.

Over all I do not think the way it was used by you matches a reference to pressure but calling the gasses lost atmosphere.But that is just my opinion and why it was worded as a question had the wrong punctuation.

. And as I said it drives me crazy when sci fi does things like say the atmosphere on the ship is nitrogen oxygen or they lost 72% of there atmosphere supply.

They're also synonyms. Much ado about nothing.

Blue_Lion wrote:The way you used it does not appear to match using it as a unit of measure to me as you used singular(used as a unit of measure for air pressure is typically atmospheres plural if you have more than one). If your tank held pressure equal to air at sea level you would not have a very long air supply.
You specified atmosphere tank- that does not match a reference to pressure but appears to be calling what the tank stores as atmosphere.

"Critical integrity failure in left glove. Loss of pressure detected. Sealing X Y, Z. Loss of pressure detected. Pressure tank at 32% and falling."-The tank does not appear to fit being used as a reference to pressure but calling the tank pressure. Oxygen supply, air supply would seam to fit better.

Over all I do not think the way it was used by you matches a reference to pressure but calling the gasses lost atmosphere.But that is just my opinion and why it was worded as a question had the wrong punctuation.

. And as I said it drives me crazy when sci fi does things like say the atmosphere on the ship is nitrogen oxygen or they lost 72% of there atmosphere supply.

BUT the guy in the example breathes HexaChromium Methane.

The endo-skeletal replacement was/is one of the coolest things in PU2. However, I would like to see it "fleshed out" more. Pun intended.

As for Rifts, yeah it does mention that the robotic skeleton has 200 MDC. It also mentions the internal organs being sealed, shielded, and protected or something like that. So this could lead to an argument that the main body or internal organs in the torso have some degree of MD protection. There could also be an argument for an AR despite being MDC in the same sense that Cyber-Armor has an AR despite being MDC and for the same reasons (it is only partial coverage).

I can see an argument for these guys having light robotic strength in Rifts and MDC damage in hand to hand. I can also see an argument against it and/or for using augmented strength tables instead.

As for the SDC flesh and doing MD in hand to hand, there are a few cases in Rifts where a circumstance allows a character to do MD in hand to hand but that they have to protect their hands with gauntlets or take some SDC damage or some such thing. One example would be the Titan Juicer. Another I think comes from SA where some magic gives you SN strength but does not give you MDC and you risk straining or damaging yourself when making an MD attack.

These guys also would have the ability to wear heavier armor than an un-augmented dude. You could even have some sort of partial light exo-skeleton that they can suit up into very quickly (quicker donning than normal because it either doesn't provide full coverage (maybe it only fully protects the torso and head leaving the limbs mostly exposed but with striking surfaces so that you don't hurt your SDC limbs when engaging in MD hand to hand?) or is a very minimalist skeletal design.

Even if you say that the flesh is totally SDC over an MDC skeleton and that the endo-skeleton can not do MD in hand to hand, these guys are still cool. It is just such an interesting concept. It is not quite bionics, because it is a step above in some regards and a step below in others and also not quite robotics for the same reasons. Very cool. I really dig it!!

tsh77769

lather wrote:They're also synonyms. Much ado about nothing.

Having similar meanings in some cases (synonyms) does not mean they are interchangeable.

Sky and airspace are also a synonym for air and atmosphere but would not fit the grammar usage.

But this is really of topic. Take care and have fun.

Blue_Lion wrote:

lather wrote:They're also synonyms. Much ado about nothing.

Having similar meanings in some cases (synonyms) does not mean they are interchangeable.

True.
In this case, they are interchangeable.

lather wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

lather wrote:They're also synonyms. Much ado about nothing.

Having similar meanings in some cases (synonyms) does not mean they are interchangeable.

True.
In this case, they are interchangeable.

I am not going to derail this thread any further so I addressed your statement in PM.