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The backstory for Glitterboys is that the Chromium Guardsmen are the only pre-Rifts Power Armor that is still in operation today — and I'm talking the actual power armor, not just the design. This thread is intended to address the logistical challenges of a suit of PA that operates for over three centuries without any appreciable support infrastructure.

So we have armor that is virtually maintenance-free. Good. The specs give an “average energy life” of 25 years. We can assume that means 25 years before refueling. (Other power armor can be refueled as well; but without the low maintenance ethos of the Guardsmen, they are usually falling apart at that point anyway.) But that still leaves ammunition, provisions, and armor repairs: you can't put just anything in a Boom Gun; food paste doesn't grow on trees; and the secret to manufacturing Chromium armor is known only to Free Quebec, ARCHIE, and presumably the Republicans. How did the Glitterboys remain in operation during the 200 years of chaos?

Sure, you could say that ARCHIE occasionally helped out a down-on-his-luck Glitterboy pilot; but that should usually be reserved for giving such a pilot a replacement Glitterboy, not for supplying ammo or food paste it repairing an existing suit. Some of that can be handled by your local Operator — at least, manufacturing new ammo can be handled that way. But even Operators are likely to be few and far between during the centuries of chaos: no appreciable infrastructure, remember?

My solution: a secret of the Glitterboys (not even known by Free Quebec) is the existence of a portable mini-factory that's carried inside the Guardsman. Feed this mini-factory the right raw materials, and it can (slowly) create Boom Gun ammo (from metal), food paste (from organic matter), and an “armor repair paste” (which I'll describe in a moment). It's slow enough that you're probably better off foraging for food and buying ammunition from a store if you can; but if you don't have that option, you have something to fall back on. The “armor repair paste” is a substance that interacts with Chromium armor specifically, gradually softening it into a malleable state that lets the Glitterboy pilot beat it back into shape like a blacksmith would with red-hot iron or steel. In this way, the pilot is capable of repairing all but the most extreme damage to his suit, given only enough time and enough raw materials for the repair paste.

This also requires tweaking the Glitterboy OCC to include a few support skills. The Glitterboy isn't an Operator or a Wildernesses Scout; but he needs some ability to repair his armor and to live in the wilderness, if only because that's what GBs had to do for so long. So I suggest adding a special skill to the OCC that acts as Robot Mechanics (only for the Glitterboy) and includes how to use the aforementioned minifac; and add Wilderness Survival to the OCC skills at, say, +5%.

Thoughts?

One of the least crazy ideas I've seen for the GB / CG corps.
Another idea that is parallel in concept, is pre-cataclysm suits have integral self-repair systems simmilar the the nanite based ones described in the 'Bionics Sourcebook', but without a limitation on uses. PROVIDED that the pilot is able to scrounge enough battle-field / ruins salvage to "feed the beast" when nano-repair stocks run dry.
As for the ammo? Yeah; at least an Armourer skill and basic robot-repair tool kit w/ inbuilt "expert system" to talk the pilot through cranking out their ammo... one shell at a time.

Yeah; I wanted to avoid the “self-repairing armor” thing. I also wanted to differentiate the “heroic” Glitterboys from the Free Quebec Glitterboys a bit more, which is why I suggested that Free Quebec either doesn't know about or can't make the minifac. It's a Minor thing; but it spells the difference between the self-sufficient unaffiliated GBs and the tied-to-the-supply-lines FQ GBs.

it could be as simple as large stockpiles of replacement armour pieces being hidden away in a number of locations (and if ARCHIE can be discreetly reloading those stockpiles many after they're cleaned out or creating new caches when people aren't looking, perhaps sometimes a decade or more later, they might last a lot longer than you would normally expect. helping out glitter boy pilots doesn't have to mean specifically helping individual pilots, it can just as easily mean digging out a "pre-rifts hidden cache of glitter boy parts" and then starting a rumour about there being a pre-rifts hidden cache in the place you just built one (you don't even need people for that... someone finds an old data disk, most of the information is corrupted, but it has a couple uncorrupted pre-rifts videos and mentions an ammo depot somewhere)

the ammunition is not that hard iirc... just needs someone with a machine shop and the right skill. probably an operator can do it better, but you don't need to be an operator for it.

fuel is a bit more tricky, of course... there isn't an awful lot of refined radioactive materials lying around, i would imagine. with that said, if it only needs refueling every 25 years, even one location that can handle that job could work reasonably well, and it rather looks like at least a few places in north america kept the knowledge of how to build a nuclear power supply, so that shouldn't be too hard.

Fusion power doesn't require radioactive materials, per se; at worst, it needs a rare isotope of hydrogen or helium. I'm figuring that the KLS design can run on Deuterium, which can be extracted from water with little difficulty: you just need a lot of water. But then, you only have to do it every 25 years; so I figure that's not a big deal.

dataweaver wrote:Fusion power doesn't require radioactive materials, per se; at worst, it needs a rare isotope of hydrogen or helium. I'm figuring that the KLS design can run on Deuterium, which can be extracted from water with little difficulty: you just need a lot of water. But then, you only have to do it every 25 years; so I figure that's not a big deal.

as noted, even if it's a rare material used as fuel, some people know how to do it, and you only need to get to one of those groups of people every 25 years. we know that the CS kept that knowledge, as did Free Quebec presumably. it stands to reason that northern gun and the manistique imperium probably kept it as well, and we know there are unspecified smaller companies (presumably including a number of black market operations) that produce "generic" equipment like mountaineers, plastic man armour, L-20 laser rifles, etc. and wilks may have kept the knowledge, at least for reactors on a factory level (they don't appear to produce anything that uses a small nuclear power plant, although it is possible that they do produce it and simply don't sell it given we know very little about the company - basically, all we're given is that they make high quality laser equipment, and i think there's a quote somewhere that they manufacture a lot of electrical components that are used even in CS equipment, though that may be out of date).

dataweaver wrote:T
My solution: a secret of the Glitterboys (not even known by Free Quebec) is the existence of a portable mini-factory that's carried inside the Guardsman. Feed this mini-factory the right raw materials, and it can (slowly) create Boom Gun ammo (from metal), food paste (from organic matter), and an “armor repair paste” (which I'll describe in a moment). It's slow enough that you're probably better off foraging for food and buying ammunition from a store if you can; but if you don't have that option, you have something to fall back on. The “armor repair paste” is a substance that interacts with Chromium armor specifically, gradually softening it into a malleable state that lets the Glitterboy pilot beat it back into shape like a blacksmith would with red-hot iron or steel. In this way, the pilot is capable of repairing all but the most extreme damage to his suit, given only enough time and enough raw materials for the repair paste.

This also requires tweaking the Glitterboy OCC to include a few support skills. The Glitterboy isn't an Operator or a Wildernesses Scout; but he needs some ability to repair his armor and to live in the wilderness, if only because that's what GBs had to do for so long. So I suggest adding a special skill to the OCC that acts as Robot Mechanics (only for the Glitterboy) and includes how to use the aforementioned minifac; and add Wilderness Survival to the OCC skills at, say, +5%.

Thoughts?

I like you; I may steal that idea.

Another mcguffin might be that certain aspects of the Glitterboy design inadvertently actually IMPROVED the performance of the Glitterboy post-Comng of the Rifts. Something is reacting to the higher ambient PPE, making the GB more resilient and resistant to deterioration...something the other NEMA suits didn't have. Something technowizards are unaware of, but would give up their eyeteeth to discover the secrets of.

taalismn wrote:
Another mcguffin might be that certain aspects of the Glitterboy design inadvertently actually IMPROVED the performance of the Glitterboy post-Comng of the Rifts. Something is reacting to the higher ambient PPE, making the GB more resilient and resistant to deterioration...something the other NEMA suits didn't have. Something technowizards are unaware of, but would give up their eyeteeth to discover the secrets of.

The Holy Hard-Suit of Antioch?

My favorite example of the hardiness of MD military gear is the pair of pre-Cataclysm suits in the Yucatan so caked and filled with mud as to be thought statues, that just need to be hosed out and refueled.

DhAkael wrote:

taalismn wrote:
Another mcguffin might be that certain aspects of the Glitterboy design inadvertently actually IMPROVED the performance of the Glitterboy post-Comng of the Rifts. Something is reacting to the higher ambient PPE, making the GB more resilient and resistant to deterioration...something the other NEMA suits didn't have. Something technowizards are unaware of, but would give up their eyeteeth to discover the secrets of.

The Holy Hard-Suit of Antioch?

And whether or not that aspect was deliberate or just cosmically lucky.

Shark_Force wrote:it could be as simple as large stockpiles of replacement armour pieces being hidden away in a number of locations (and if ARCHIE can be discreetly reloading those stockpiles many after they're cleaned out or creating new caches when people aren't looking, perhaps sometimes a decade or more later, they might last a lot longer than you would normally expect. helping out glitter boy pilots doesn't have to mean specifically helping individual pilots, it can just as easily mean digging out a "pre-rifts hidden cache of glitter boy parts" and then starting a rumour about there being a pre-rifts hidden cache in the place you just built one (you don't even need people for that... someone finds an old data disk, most of the information is corrupted, but it has a couple uncorrupted pre-rifts videos and mentions an ammo depot somewhere)

the ammunition is not that hard iirc... just needs someone with a machine shop and the right skill. probably an operator can do it better, but you don't need to be an operator for it.

fuel is a bit more tricky, of course... there isn't an awful lot of refined radioactive materials lying around, i would imagine. with that said, if it only needs refueling every 25 years, even one location that can handle that job could work reasonably well, and it rather looks like at least a few places in north america kept the knowledge of how to build a nuclear power supply, so that shouldn't be too hard.

caches of armor and parts make a lot more sense and fits the technology of the golden age far better than a built in replicator. it is also likely that many of the surviving suits, especially the ones used by the pilot clans, are actually patchwork suits maintained by pulling sections of armor and spare parts off damaged or non-functional suits.

dataweaver wrote:Fusion power doesn't require radioactive materials, per se; at worst, it needs a rare isotope of hydrogen or helium. I'm figuring that the KLS design can run on Deuterium, which can be extracted from water with little difficulty: you just need a lot of water. But then, you only have to do it every 25 years; so I figure that's not a big deal.

except that nuclear power in rifts is Fission.. it fits all the traits of fission (produces plutonium as a byproduct, has a major contamination danger inthe event of a breach, etc), and when fusion is used the powerplant entry will invariably refer to as fusion, not nuclear.

obtaining processed uranium and/or thorium to refuel a suit would be hard to do with a normal workshop, but nuclear power tech wasn't completely lost in North America, so replacement cores could be obtained if needed, and odds are the design of the GB's core was a standard style for PA of the north american alliance. the fuel in the core would also last for millions of years if the reactor was not active so if the suit is turned off when not in use, a single power core should last a long time.

"I converted my Glitterboy to run off pelletized wood-burning stove fuel. IRONwood. "

I think we had a number of alternative powerplants in the old Legendary Glitterboys thread.

My thought is that since the suit was the mainstay power armor suit for NEMA...
...that there were TONS of spare parts. Basically every military base and likely many police facilities would have some parts for the Chromium Guardsman/Glitterboy.

This would allow for a long time of operation.
Add in stuff like psychics with Telemechanics and the fact that the original operator 'cult' would likely have learned (and trained) on Power Armor mechanics on Glitterboys and Silver Eagles and you have a reason for them to survive a long, long, long time.
As for the ammunition I don't think it would be all that hard to make more of it and the military is famous for stockpiling absurd amounts of ammunition... and these rounds have no volatile component so they will be easy to store and still good centuries later.

My main issue with the stockpile of spare parts is why there weren't stockpiles of spare parts for the SAMAS as well: why did only the Chromium Guardsman manage to survive through the two centuries of darkness?

dataweaver wrote:My main issue with the stockpile of spare parts is why there weren't stockpiles of spare parts for the SAMAS as well: why did only the Chromium Guardsman manage to survive through the two centuries of darkness?

Far tougher to begin with so a lot less likely to be outright destroyed, is the most likely reason.

And, of course, Archie continuing to build new ones and putting them out there for people to find.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

dataweaver wrote:My main issue with the stockpile of spare parts is why there weren't stockpiles of spare parts for the SAMAS as well: why did only the Chromium Guardsman manage to survive through the two centuries of darkness?

Far tougher to begin with so a lot less likely to be outright destroyed, is the most likely reason.

And, of course, Archie continuing to build new ones and putting them out there for people to find.

If I want to have other reasons I can come up with plenty.
The biggest though is probably this:
You can't crash a Glitterboy at 200mph. Which makes it easier and safer to learn to use with out simulators.
Thus resulting in Samas parts being canabilized for fixing GBs... which lasted longer...which....

plus in the chaos earth books we're told that NEMA in the midwest have some production of chrome guardsment parts, but none of the other units ever get mentioned. and since the Silver Eagle SAMAS was largely grounded due to the ash, they may not have given it as much of a priority, since as a ground pounder the USA-G10 is definitely the better suit,

dataweaver wrote:My main issue with the stockpile of spare parts is why there weren't stockpiles of spare parts for the SAMAS as well: why did only the Chromium Guardsman manage to survive through the two centuries of darkness?

There probably are stockpiles (NEMA, US military, manufacturing sites) that can handle this. Now availability might be an issue, and raises the question why the SAMAS couldn't survive. Archie-3 is known to provide stockpiles, and FQ secured a manufacturing site (one of only 2 known in NA) . The SAMAS is of course an issue, but consider:
-1. Are the Chromium SAMAS parts compatible with the GB? If they are to some degree, you could see the grounded SAMAS stripped to keep the GB operating.
-2. what is the ratio of GB to SAMAS in NEMA/US-military? GB availability might just have been better than the SAMAS due to the shear number needed to support. That ratio might also explain why GB survived to and the SAMAS didn't, sheer numbers
-3. The SAMAS might not have survived due to its weaker combat profile (lower armor, lower firepower). Off hand I don't know what the Chrome-Samas looks like (been ages since I looked at it in a friend's book), so I'm comparing it to the baseline (CS model).

Silver eagle samas is basically a CS standard with 50% more mdc

it is also possible that companies of glitter boys with their 11,000 foot range simply take a lot less damage, in addition to leaving more salvage when destroyed (because they don't crash). i mean, it takes a *lot* to charge into a company of glitter boys that have good LOS and even reach them, let alone destroy them. meanwhile, the SAMAS need to be a lot closer, and furthermore would be acting as close-range guards... and where are most demons and monsters going to be strongest? at melee range. so when something *does* manage to push through the hail of boom gun fire, it's the SAMAS that take the hits, most likely.

So..a Mr Fusion?

https://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/xl/back-to-future-ii-mr-fusion-home-energy-reactor-replica-xl.jpg

Anyway, I like the idea of pre-Rifts tech being just a bit better than post-Rifts tech. IMO post-Rifts tech has to use magic to equal the things that pre-Rifts tech could do, so all of these are nice...but not fun. Finding MDC metals, grinding them into powder, then putting the dust into the GB, probably through some hard to reach, tiny, out of the way 1/4" tube under the left arm or something weird. Same thing with the food paste and the other material creator systems.

As for fuel...perhaps the OLD glitter boys were a combination fusion/fission system and could use hydrogen from the air when it was available, and when in space or other locations it could switch to the fission system. Meh, or some sort of techno-babble like that.

-STS

slade the sniper wrote:So..a Mr Fusion?

https://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/xl/back-to-future-ii-mr-fusion-home-energy-reactor-replica-xl.jpg

Anyway, I like the idea of pre-Rifts tech being just a bit better than post-Rifts tech. IMO post-Rifts tech has to use magic to equal the things that pre-Rifts tech could do, so all of these are nice...but not fun. Finding MDC metals, grinding them into powder, then putting the dust into the GB, probably through some hard to reach, tiny, out of the way 1/4" tube under the left arm or something weird. Same thing with the food paste and the other material creator systems.

As for fuel...perhaps the OLD glitter boys were a combination fusion/fission system and could use hydrogen from the air when it was available, and when in space or other locations it could switch to the fission system. Meh, or some sort of techno-babble like that.

-STS

The issue there is...
Why does Japan, Germany, The New Navy, Archie, South America, Tritonia, Sovietski, Australia, and the Chinese use this stuff...
I mean we have a LOT of people with full Golden Age technology. To be honest... only North America and Africa seem to have suffered a "Dark Ages" in fact. Most of the rest of the world has major industrial powers that survived intact.
There are at least FOUR groups on Rifts Earth that have full Pre-Rifts Glitter Boy technology (Germany, South America, Japan, Archie). And two with full SAMMAS tech (Black Market and Japan) which due to the retcon is now also Chromium tech. That doesn't count the dozen or so other Pre-Rifts survivor states. Or the fact that this technology is beyond anything that even the 3Gs (including the Splugorth or Naruni) can do... (we know this because the Japan book out right tells us that nano-tech disassemblers are beyond them let alone nanite factories)

How about a weird connection between the GB families and the machines? Maybe a form of Telemechanics pops up early and often in the families? Helps them repair, and maybe pilot the GBs? Even a link somewhat like the Hagan PA has showing up due to time in the saddle?

eliakon wrote:[ Or the fact that this technology is beyond anything that even the 3Gs (including the Splugorth or Naruni) can do...

The #G Glitterboys may be a matter of an idea that hardly anybody there thought of, or had forgotten...like the Russian T-34 and the Germans...The latter HAD the technology to duplicate the T-34 and maybe even improve on it(and the Wermacht had considered doing just that), sloping glacis armor and all, but never got around to doing so. The Germans had other designs already in the pipeline, and that had a momentum all its own. The same might be true of Naruni, but give them time and profit projections....The Splugorth? Why bother? They got magic armors and minions out the wazoo....
The novelty of the GB units in the 3G may wear off, with effective countermeasures being developed and deployed...or the designs being duplicated and a rash of imitation designs spreading about, and THEN the backlash countermeasure-wise.

Scavenged parts. I recently ran a GB pilot (non-FQ) wherein my GM described her encounter with a group of NEMA soldiers, her GB had a power plant from a Silver Eagle, servomotors from a GunBuster or other NEMA era robot or PA unit. The cameras had been replaced with poorer resolution ones, the "self-adjusting pilot compartment" (c'mon not all pilots are the same height, weight, etc. makes sense that the internal pilot compartment can adjust itself or be adjusted) had stopped working ages ago. The poor engineers just about had a heart attack over how much of the GB wasn't "standard". Also some pilots may have literally buried their units for a time if they decided to "retire" and then dug them out for the next generation.

taalismn wrote:

eliakon wrote:[ Or the fact that this technology is beyond anything that even the 3Gs (including the Splugorth or Naruni) can do...

The #G Glitterboys may be a matter of an idea that hardly anybody there thought of, or had forgotten...like the Russian T-34 and the Germans...The latter HAD the technology to duplicate the T-34 and maybe even improve on it(and the Wermacht had considered doing just that), sloping glacis armor and all, but never got around to doing so. The Germans had other designs already in the pipeline, and that had a momentum all its own. The same might be true of Naruni, but give them time and profit projections....The Splugorth? Why bother? They got magic armors and minions out the wazoo....
The novelty of the GB units in the 3G may wear off, with effective countermeasures being developed and deployed...or the designs being duplicated and a rash of imitation designs spreading about, and THEN the backlash countermeasure-wise.

he wasn't saying GB's were beyond the tech of the 3 galaxies.
we know they can make GB's, heck you have the Golden Horde Mercenary unit that is using 3G's built glitterboys.

what Eli was pointing out was the sort of advanced nanite technology that the OP and that Slade is referring too is stated to be beyond the capability of the three galaxies. which make it highly unlikely that golden age earth had it.

keir451 wrote:Scavenged parts. I recently ran a GB pilot (non-FQ) wherein my GM described her encounter with a group of NEMA soldiers, her GB had a power plant from a Silver Eagle, servomotors from a GunBuster or other NEMA era robot or PA unit. The cameras had been replaced with poorer resolution ones, the "self-adjusting pilot compartment" (c'mon not all pilots are the same height, weight, etc. makes sense that the internal pilot compartment can adjust itself or be adjusted) had stopped working ages ago. The poor engineers just about had a heart attack over how much of the GB wasn't "standard". Also some pilots may have literally buried their units for a time if they decided to "retire" and then dug them out for the next generation.

Heh, I haven't read the Chaos Earth books, so when you said GunBuster servomotors, my first thought was that a servomotor from THE GUNBUSTER's pinky knuckle is the size of a locomotive.

I just figure "an operator did it" covers the situations where Glitter Boys actually have enemies close enough to damage them. Most of the time they probably have scouts to prevent that so they can snipe-kill threats before that's actually an issue. Psi-Stalker Tontos.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

taalismn wrote:

eliakon wrote:[ Or the fact that this technology is beyond anything that even the 3Gs (including the Splugorth or Naruni) can do...

The #G Glitterboys may be a matter of an idea that hardly anybody there thought of, or had forgotten...like the Russian T-34 and the Germans...The latter HAD the technology to duplicate the T-34 and maybe even improve on it(and the Wermacht had considered doing just that), sloping glacis armor and all, but never got around to doing so. The Germans had other designs already in the pipeline, and that had a momentum all its own. The same might be true of Naruni, but give them time and profit projections....The Splugorth? Why bother? They got magic armors and minions out the wazoo....
The novelty of the GB units in the 3G may wear off, with effective countermeasures being developed and deployed...or the designs being duplicated and a rash of imitation designs spreading about, and THEN the backlash countermeasure-wise.

he wasn't saying GB's were beyond the tech of the 3 galaxies.
we know they can make GB's, heck you have the Golden Horde Mercenary unit that is using 3G's built glitterboys.

what Eli was pointing out was the sort of advanced nanite technology that the OP and that Slade is referring too is stated to be beyond the capability of the three galaxies. which make it highly unlikely that golden age earth had it.

Erm... both he Wolfen Quatoria and the Machine People have nanomolecular repair units. So, their nanotech goes at least that far. And those are just what i remember off the top of my head.

Also, I never said anything about nanotech. I deliberately avoided the notion of a self-repairing GB, and instead focused on making the thing most likely to get damaged and least likely to be repairable (the Chromium armor) easier to repair. Without needing seemingly serendipitous stockpiles of replacement parts just lying around.

(I also said nothing about the support kit being built in to the Chromium Guardsman; I was picturing it as a portable kit that's stowed on board when not in use, and whose very existence could be missed if you don't know to look for it.)

dataweaver wrote:Also, I never said anything about nanotech. I deliberately avoided the notion of a self-repairing GB, and instead focused on making the thing most likely to get damaged and least likely to be repairable (the Chromium armor) easier to repair. Without needing seemingly serendipitous stockpiles of replacement parts just lying around.

(I also said nothing about the support kit being built in to the Chromium Guardsman; I was picturing it as a portable kit that's stowed on board when not in use, and whose very existence could be missed if you don't know to look for it.)

A portable kit makes sense. I always equip my pilots with the skill "General Repair and Maintenance" as it seems really stupid that you can't perform basic repairs and maintenance on your equipment. That way you'd only need a Operator for any major repairs.

Note, though, that I wasn't talking about a “general repair and maintenance” kit; this kit was intended to be special, and part of a deliberate “self-sufficiency” design philosophy.

dataweaver wrote:Also, I never said anything about nanotech. I deliberately avoided the notion of a self-repairing GB, and instead focused on making the thing most likely to get damaged and least likely to be repairable (the Chromium armor) easier to repair. Without needing seemingly serendipitous stockpiles of replacement parts just lying around.

(I also said nothing about the support kit being built in to the Chromium Guardsman; I was picturing it as a portable kit that's stowed on board when not in use, and whose very existence could be missed if you don't know to look for it.)

except that to make it work as described you have to use ridiculously advanced nanite technology. because that is the only way you are going to get a small device able to make such a wide range of stuff from whatever raw material is on hand.

and there is nothing serendipitous about supply caches and stockpiles. remember that the main users of GB suits are the descendants of NEMA pilots. NEMA was setting up supply caches and stockpiles during CE for their own operations. it makes sense that their descendants would know the locations of several such caches and exploit or relocate those caches for their own use.
it is also worth noting that NEMA would have had bases all over the united states, much like how the army, navy, airforce, marines, coast guard, Coast Guard, and their respective national Guards do. in fact, since one of NEMA's missions was national defense, it is likely they had supplies and/or personnel stations at every national guard station and base.

serendipity is something occuring by chance, or luck. there was no chance or luck involved with caches and supplies, just NEMA pre-planning. both before the cataclysm (when they were expecting to potentially have to fight a defensive war on american soil) and after (when they were trying to ensure that they could keep their forces functioning even if their main encampments get overrun.)

Remember that we're talking about a setting where drug use can let you run at 45 mph, or faster, and lets you inflict Mega-Damage with your bare hands. The setting's technology is grounded in real scientific principles; but it tends to exaggerate what those principles allow. My proposed toolkit is just another example of that.

also, as you lose glitterboys and pilots, i would imagine that spare parts become more and more available and the demand on existing stockpiles becomes lower. if there used to be 20,000 suits of glitter boy armour with spare parts to completely repair each one completely twice over, and the continent is now down to 1,000 functioning suits (not counting newly manufactured stuff from FQ, which has its own supply of replacement parts), that's potentially enough parts to repair each of those 1,000 suits from total destruction up to 59 times. if we presume the stockpiles were more heavily weighted towards the most likely parts to be damaged (like armour), it gets to be an even better ratio. if we presume that the ratio of currently surviving suits is even lower, that ratio can once again become even better.

Shark_Force wrote:also, as you lose glitterboys and pilots, i would imagine that spare parts become more and more available and the demand on existing stockpiles becomes lower.

Ah the reality of "Poor Joe, he was a good friend, him and his suit have saved my life more times than i can even count, pity he didn't make it out this time...but hey! i'll always remember him since over half the repairs to my suit came from his!"

The Bionic Sourcebook version of a limited automated repair system makes sense to me. If a Rifts version can repair everything from bionic armor to bionic sensors I would think a Golden Age version could repair GB armor, or maybe even manufacture Boom Gun Rounds.

RockJock wrote:The Bionic Sourcebook version of a limited automated repair system makes sense to me. If a Rifts version can repair everything from bionic armor to bionic sensors I would think a Golden Age version could repair GB armor, or maybe even manufacture Boom Gun Rounds.

You realize that post-Rifts technology, with VERY few exceptions, is far and away superior to Golden Age tech, right?

The stuff the CS started with in the RMB was cutting-edge NEMA tech. literally everything they have now is better.

About the only thing that isnt superior is armor technology (NEMA heavy body armor was slightly better than CS heavy body armor, with ~20 more MDC, and the CS doesnt know how to make the Chromium Armor, though this is intimated to be because they never bothered to research it because they would rather field more, but cheaper and still capable units, not because they couldnt have puzzled it out at this point). Thats literally it.

Golden Age tech isnt that great. Hell, given that that is where Triax STARTED, the stats for Triax gear are ludicrously low - theyve got almost 300 years of advancement past the “Golden Age”.

Higher tech doesn't always mean a more powerful set of armor, or more destructive guns. Better tech can mean it is lighter, easier to use, more versatile, among other things. I think we have different views of Golden Age tech. I see most of what Triax has done as clawing out of the hole more than expanding scientific and technical knowledge greatly. What Triax and the CS has done, at least from my view is widen the types of units, and things like that, not make stronger materials, or better engines.

NEMA equipment, for the most part, is designed to be flexible for a paramilitary/police force use. Most updated CS small arms are in the realm of NEMA gear, but usually a little heavier and/or weaker. This holds for EBA, and PA, but not so well for other equipment, since there are not many examples of from CE. For that you have to branch out to other Golden Age sources, to get apples to apples.

The Super SAM is an extremely powerful suit of power armor, and out classes a Silver Eagle in many ways. The Super Sam has better weapon options in general, and can fly faster, but the Super Sam is also thousands of pounds heavier, has slightly less MDC, and overheats quicker. Another similar example of this is Russia borgs. Both the Shock Troopers and Super Sam are very powerful, but get that via size and brute force not from a higher tech level.

If the Republic of Japan or Golden Age US decided to build a Borg Shock Trooper, or Super SAMAS with their tech my guess is it would be significantly more powerful then what the Warlords or CS fields. Heck, a fully loaded GB weighs what a Super Sam weighs without the flight back or railgun. Now I'm thinking of a Hawkeye GB flying around with a really 1.2 ton flight pack....

The Deadman Railgun weighs more then the Striker, but has better reach, all for the same damage and bursts. The CS C-40R is comparable to the NEMA USA-40R, but weighs more and does less damage. The NEMA laser pistol and does more damage then any of the CS laser pistols, plus has a better range. The CS Dragon Fire edges out the NEMA Terror Stopper in several categories. In the Terror Stopper's favor, it weighs so much less then the later CS rifle/grenade launcher it is more of a match for the CS CP-40 pulse laser. In that comparison the NEMA gun is lighter, has improved accuracy, similar energy management, plus sdc settings and a grenade launcher. There are plenty of other small arms examples that generally follow this path.

I'll freely admit that the CS has a lot more variety of equipment in print, and some examples out class NEMA tech based on that. That's when I start hitting up Golden Age tech in Japan, Underseas, Soventski, MiO, and both South America books. Things like the JA rifles, medical robots, Chinese PA, and England's Caliber-X are Golden Age remnants, heck, the Phoenix Empire Skimmer tech is assumed to be Golden Age.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just think we have different views on what was GA and what is Post Rifts discoveries.

RockJock wrote:Higher tech doesn't always mean a more powerful set of armor, or more destructive guns. Better tech can mean it is lighter, easier to use, more versatile, among other things. I think we have different views of Golden Age tech. I see most of what Triax has done as clawing out of the hole more than expanding scientific and technical knowledge greatly. What Triax and the CS has done, at least from my view is widen the types of units, and things like that, not make stronger materials, or better engines.

What 'hole' would they be clawing out of? They have had 300 years of uninterrupted technological progress. They didn't lose anything to claw out of in the Apocalypse... at least not according to canon as far as I can tell.

RockJock wrote:NEMA equipment, for the most part, is designed to be flexible for a paramilitary/police force use. Most updated CS small arms are in the realm of NEMA gear, but usually a little heavier and/or weaker. This holds for EBA, and PA, but not so well for other equipment, since there are not many examples of from CE. For that you have to branch out to other Golden Age sources, to get apples to apples.

Like the Republic of Japan? Or the New Navy?

RockJock wrote:The Super SAM is an extremely powerful suit of power armor, and out classes a Silver Eagle in many ways. The Super Sam has better weapon options in general, and can fly faster, but the Super Sam is also thousands of pounds heavier, has slightly less MDC, and overheats quicker. Another similar example of this is Russia borgs. Both the Shock Troopers and Super Sam are very powerful, but get that via size and brute force not from a higher tech level.

If the Republic of Japan or Golden Age US decided to build a Borg Shock Trooper, or Super SAMAS with their tech my guess is it would be significantly more powerful then what the Warlords or CS fields. Heck, a fully loaded GB weighs what a Super Sam weighs without the flight back or railgun. Now I'm thinking of a Hawkeye GB flying around with a really 1.2 ton flight pack....

You mean like the Dragon Borgs the republic makes?
Which is are NOT more powerful?

RockJock wrote:The Deadman Railgun weighs more then the Striker, but has better reach, all for the same damage and bursts. The CS C-40R is comparable to the NEMA USA-40R, but weighs more and does less damage. The NEMA laser pistol and does more damage then any of the CS laser pistols, plus has a better range. The CS Dragon Fire edges out the NEMA Terror Stopper in several categories. In the Terror Stopper's favor, it weighs so much less then the later CS rifle/grenade launcher it is more of a match for the CS CP-40 pulse laser. In that comparison the NEMA gun is lighter, has improved accuracy, similar energy management, plus sdc settings and a grenade launcher. There are plenty of other small arms examples that generally follow this path.

I'll freely admit that the CS has a lot more variety of equipment in print, and some examples out class NEMA tech based on that. That's when I start hitting up Golden Age tech in Japan, Underseas, Soventski, MiO, and both South America books. Things like the JA rifles, medical robots, Chinese PA, and England's Caliber-X are Golden Age remnants, heck, the Phoenix Empire Skimmer tech is assumed to be Golden Age.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just think we have different views on what was GA and what is Post Rifts discoveries.

The point is that all that golden age stuff... isn't all that much better than the modern stuff.
Much of it is simply the same as modern material.
And the few things that have price tags on them tend to be a lot more expensive... so yeah, if you compare a ferrari to a civic you will find the ferrari to be a better car...

The golden age stuff might be a bit better than the 'run of the mill' modern stuff, but it isn't any great leaps and bounds better. It certainly isnt categorically better by an order of magnitude. That means that while a golden age rifle might have a bit better range (at a suitably higher cost) it is not going to have stats that outclass anything avaliable today in every regard...
...which gets back to the idea of a golden age micro-nanofactory in each glitterboy that uses super advanced nanites beyond anything that even Japan is seen to have... and they ARE golden age, and not only that but they were the leaders in Nano-tech in the golden age apparently. And they can only make dissembler grenades, none of their borgs or power armor are self reparing for instance.
Now I COULD see supply points with micro factories that make parts, and those supply points have kept GBs running... but the idea that every suit has crammed in it this nano-factory?
Not a chance. Especially since it would have long since been discovered (it is literally impossible to hide such a thing from a telemechanic... and considering that a fairly high percentage of operators have that...) and would have made it trivial to replicate gliterboys instead of nearly impossible.

Yeah; I've never been behind the nanotech suggestion. As I said before, “The setting's technology is grounded in real scientific principles; but it tends to exaggerate what those principles allow.” So no, not nanofacs; just high-end fabrication kits.

And I specifically avoided having it able to produce replacement armor, which is why I suggested a paste that lets you soften up existing GB armor and bang it back into shape, blacksmith style. That way, you wouldn't be able to leverage it into a way of making new GBs.

I also specifically set up my suggestion so that the kits wouldn't be a built-in feature, but rather something kept in the storage compartment; and I deliberately aimed at having its capabilities be inferior to going into a town and buying ammo and rations, when such things are available. The point of the kit is for when such things aren't available.

RockJock wrote:Higher tech doesn't always mean a more powerful set of armor, or more destructive guns. Better tech can mean it is lighter, easier to use, more versatile, among other things. I think we have different views of Golden Age tech.

I think i have a view that corresponds with the facts in the books. The CS armaments in the RMB are straight-up cutting-edge NEMA technology. The exact same weapons.

I see most of what Triax has done as clawing out of the hole

What hole, precisely? the NGR never fell. There was no "Dark Age" for Triax In fact, being surrounded by enemies from minute 1, they were under constant pressure to get better and more weapons to the front. (more on this later, but it is covered explicitly several times).

more than expanding scientific and technical knowledge greatly. What Triax and the CS has done, at least from my view is widen the types of units, and things like that, not make stronger materials, or better engines.

Except that Triax is explicitly called out as having done all those things - their armor, when introduced, WAS better than CS armor, etc. They have Force Fields. Ill cover this more later.

NEMA equipment, for the most part, is designed to be flexible for a paramilitary/police force use.

SomeNEMA equipment is for para-military use. Some is straight up, cutting-edge, golden-age war tech. The Chromium Guardsman was purely military. Same with the Silver Eagle. In fact, the Silver Eagle is explicitly better than the parent military unit (The USA SAMAS, described in Spirit West, which is largely identical to the CS SAM, barring the rail gun, and there's a reason for that) largely because its built out of Chromium Armor.

Most updated CS small arms are in the realm of NEMA gear, but usually a little heavier and/or weaker.

.... what? Im reading Chaos Earth right now. Remember that at the time, the RMB equipment had been retconned to be burst-capable in some cases. The LSR-250 *is* the the C-12 (misidentified as the C-10). The LGR-360 *is* the C-14 (which for a brief period could fire a 3 round burst for 6D6) though with SDC settings. The PR-470 *is* the C-27. The MX-422 *is* the basis for the Mark V, only the description even says that the CS version is better.

This holds for EBA,

Which i mentioned.

and PA,

Only because of the Chromium Armor (which i called out as one of the very few exceptions) version of the SAM. The actual USA version didn't use this armor and IS the exact armor the CS uses. From the Golden Age.

but not so well for other equipment, since there are not many examples of from CE. For that you have to branch out to other Golden Age sources, to get apples to apples.

The Super SAM is an extremely powerful suit of power armor, and out classes a Silver Eagle in many ways. The Super Sam has better weapon options in general, and can fly faster, but the Super Sam is also thousands of pounds heavier, has slightly less MDC, and overheats quicker.

The extra weight is almost entirely from the extra weapons it carries, and, yes, the extra non-Chromium Armor it carries. As i mentioned, the Chromium Armor is one of the ONLY Golden Age technologies that is still "great" - and its even available on Rifts Earth - but i can see why the CS wouldn't use it, because it would make the individual units cost too much. (Which is why FQ's SAM's arent made out of it).

But why talk about the Super SAM (which, honestly, i would NEVER hold up as a shining example of the CS' technology, as quite honestly, the thing is puzzlingly awful)... but rather the Striker SAM (which really should have been the Super SAM). Only weighs 600lbs, carries a huge pile of missiles, is fast and maneuverable, etc.

The only thing that makes the "Silver Eagle" better is the Chromium Armor. That's literally it. And, as i keep pointing out, i said that armor technology was the only place Golden Age tech seems to have kept any kind of edge... sometimes. Their robot vehicles, Power Armor, tanks, and stuff not made out of Chromium Armor kinda blows or is merely on-par with/as good as post-Rifts tech. (And yes, we have plenty of examples - everything the New Navy uses is Golden-Age tech for instance.)

Compare the Bulldog to any CS Robot after the RMB. It's kind of garbage. The Mastiff and Super-Mastiff are... good? Largely because of high MDC (though CS Robots of those sizes have comparable MDC) and high Mini-Missile payloads (and a very good Medium Range missile battery in the Super) But other than that.. they're pretty weaksauce.

Other, non-Chromium PA? The Terror Trooper is better than the Gunbuster is pretty much every conceivable way. The Semper-Fi isn't anything to write home about either.

Another similar example of this is Russia borgs. Both the Shock Troopers and Super Sam are very powerful, but get that via size and brute force not from a higher tech level.

This, however, is explicitly stated as such, and explicitly stated that even in the Golden Age, the Russian tech level wasn't as high, and that was how they compensated. So im not really sure what you're trying to say here.

If the Republic of Japan or Golden Age US decided to build a Borg Shock Trooper, or Super SAMAS with their tech my guess is it would be significantly more powerful then what the Warlords or CS fields.

Your guessing based on... what precisely? The examples of Golden Age tech we do have do not suggest that their tech level was actually better. The argument you're trying to make is that they could have made so much more better stuff and just didnt. For reasons. That is patently absurd, given that we're told time and again that some of these things were cutting-edge advances and the best things ever produced. This is particularly applicable to Bionics; Mindwerks is pre-Rifts. Their Bionics aren't particularly better than modern ones. There's certainly nothing to suggest that Japan could make some super-duper mega-Cyborg Shock Troopers it just wasn't making for whatever reason and hasn't seen fit to make since they landed on Rifts Earth and have had to fight for their lives (where super-duper mega-Cyborg Shock Troopers would be totes useful).

Heck, a fully loaded GB weighs what a Super Sam weighs without the flight back or railgun.

The Super SAM also weighs more than any other PA in that book (other than the GB killer, which is called a "small robot") by a fair margin for no good reason, so its not exactly the best example. The Striker SAM only weighs 600lbs.

Now I'm thinking of a Hawkeye GB flying around with a really 1.2 ton flight pack....

I'm sure its feasible. There is no reason FQ couldn't do it either, except it wouldn't be as good as just having a dedicated air unit. And the Shadow Boy can fly and hop without all that extra weight.

The Deadman Railgun weighs more then the Striker, but has better reach, all for the same damage and bursts. The CS C-40R is comparable to the NEMA USA-40R, but weighs more and does less damage.

This is specifically addressed in Spirit West; the CS tuned the gun down on purpose to save ammo. Mentioned in the writeup for the unmodified USA SAM, whose gun is comparable to the NEMA weapon.

The NEMA laser pistol and does more damage then any of the CS laser pistols,

Only for the pulse setting. It does the same damage per shot as the C-20. Range, ill give you... but range is weirdly inconsistent across weapon types and manufacturers, so this isn't a huge category in this argument for me. It IS a factor, but some of them can be chalked up to just sheer dumb.

plus has a better range. The CS Dragon Fire edges out the NEMA Terror Stopper in several categories. In the Terror Stopper's favor, it weighs so much less then the later CS rifle/grenade launcher it is more of a match for the CS CP-40 pulse laser. In that comparison the NEMA gun is lighter, has improved accuracy, similar energy management, plus sdc settings and a grenade launcher. There are plenty of other small arms examples that generally follow this path.

There's really just the one. And you had to compare it to a weapon that it isn't comparable to. We call that moving the goalposts. And the extra accuracy is from (an apparently not-as-good) version of the same scope the C-10 uses. Which you can literally put on anything.

And harping on weight when it is an irrelevant amount of weight isn't really a good argument. If we were talking about the weight making it harder to wield or affecting wether you can even pick it up ("man, this Golden Age man-portable rail gun is only like 20lbs, so anyone can use it!" vs "This C-40R weights like 800lbs and you have to be a borg!") or use it properly, then you'd have a point. But when its an irrelevant amount of weight that doesn't affect the performance of the weapon... /shrug.

I'll freely admit that the CS has a lot more variety of equipment in print, and some examples out class NEMA tech based on that.

When you factor in other Golden Age designs that have been printed in various books, this isn't actually true. There is just as much Golden Age stuff out there as CS stuff for the most part, at least on a per-class basis (as CS War Campaign did add a ton of very derivative PAs and Robots, but we have excellent examples of PA and Robots from the Golden Age in several World Books, as well as the Chaos Earth stuff). There are several PAs (USA SAM, both Bandito SAMs, Semper-Fi PA, various GB models, Japanese SAM), several robots and tanks, absolutely-cutting edge warships (like the Ticonderoga), etc. Several weapons of each type, etc. There's plenty of comparisons.

That's when I start hitting up Golden Age tech in Japan,

Go ahead and name a single thing from the Japan book that is really awesome. (Some Bionics/Cybernetics, i think? But its outright stated that Japan was ahead there anyway, even during the Golden Age.) Don't worry, i'll wait. None of their weapons or PA

Underseas,

Other than the Ticonderoga, nothing in Underseas is particularly impressive. Their tank is "meh", their PA is meh, their main rifle is purely comparable to a number of other pulse weapons in the setting that aren't even new and revolutionary.

Soventski,

Haven't seen that book yet, but the Sovietski stuff in Warlords wasn't anything to write home about. I hear the new book has some bells and whistles, including a game-breakingly bad AP mechanic.

MiO, and both South America books. Things like the JA rifles,

The JA-9 and JA-11 are fine - good and powerful and long range, but not amazingly broken or anything. Other people have lasers that do similar or more damage. The JA-12... there's no defense for it. its an absurdly broken weapon that made no sense when it was introduced and is one of the worst examples of CJ's power creep.

Though how Wilk's never managed to replicate the extended range of the JA-9/11 is beyond me, since its quite clearly stated that their tech was Pre-Rifts and they were the leading laser company in the world. Another one of those editing/continuity things that Palladium is terrible at.

South America GA tech is....

More GBs? Their tanks, infantry weapons (except for that one crazy front-loaded laser rifle/cannon), body armor, and almost all their robots are mediocre or average for their size and the robots at least are all post-Rifts developments.

medical robots,

What exactly are we talking about here? IRMSS stuff? Yes, it was/is Golden Age tech.. but it's still made. Yeah, Rifts Earth hasn't advanced PAST it, but thats not really relevant. That was the best the GA had too. Its not like the GA had little nanobots that could put you back together after you were misted or something.

Chinese PA,

Ill have to dig out my copy of China 2, but i dont recall them being that awesome. And actually, i may not have it since it isnt really my copy. I may have returned it.

and England's Caliber-X are Golden Age remnants, heck, the Phoenix Empire Skimmer tech is assumed to be Golden Age.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just think we have different views on what was GA and what is Post Rifts discoveries.

I'm not saying there aren't outliers that are some tech that hasn't been replicated or advanced on by post-Rifts societies. I called out one that stuck out immediately (Armor).

Some fringe stuff like the Skimmer tech in the Phoenix Empire, perhaps (though we have no idea if it is really pre-Rifts or just bought-in or stolen from somewhere). And that's fine - it could very well have been a huge breakthrough in Egypt at the time that then got burried by the Cataclysm. People in NA didn't even have any idea to look for or develop that kind of tech (since they dont exactly have to worry about sand getting everywhere).

But by and large, post-Rifts tech has surpassed or more than equalled GA tech in every way that matters.

Its particularly egregious when it comes to Triax, whose tech should be MILES ahead of anyone else. The NGR never fell. We are told both in WB5 and in Phase World that the reason Rifts Earth tech is so close to 3G tech is because the 3G have reached a stable/natural plateau and that while there are individual conflicts going on, the whole of the 3G haven't been covered in war for millenia or longer, which means military tech is "good enough" for those small wars and individual conflicts and there isn't a ton of advancement going on all the time...

but we're specifically told that Rifts Earth, due to the constant, life-threatening/civilization threating wars, has had incentive to keep up rapid technological progression the entire time, particularly Triax.

Now, for game purposes, i get why it isn't like that. Just for balance.

But it's a HUGE plot-hole and continuity issue and undermines the entire premise of GA tech being better, since quite literally everything Triax has is Golden Age + 300 years of rapid advancement.... and is still not really that much better until "just now" (as the stuff in Triax 2 is hillariously powerful in some cases).

One other area where the GB is still superior to Rifts technology: its extreme low maintenance requirements. Granted, that's only in the flavor text, mainly because the logistics of maintenance is not something that Rifts deals with.

dataweaver wrote:One other area where the GB is still superior to Rifts technology: its extreme low maintenance requirements. Granted, that's only in the flavor text, mainly because the logistics of maintenance is not something that Rifts deals with.

Fair point.

Oh, and the CS seems to have hit the "we did it better" nail in at least ONE spot:

The excellent C-30R Light Rail Gun mounted on the CS Command Car.

weights 90lbs, (sans ammo, mind), does a respectable 6D6MD... at a range of two freaking miles.

Two. Miles.

Every CS Cyborg should have this thing. This should be the cupola weapon/light rail gun weapon emplaced on every CS vehicle in place of the current weirdly-named ones that are all different. The Smiling Jack should carry this thing. Mount them on the Scout Rocket Cycle and the Skycycles.

Holy crap it is it good.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Oh, and the CS seems to have hit the "we did it better" nail in at least ONE spot:

The excellent C-30R Light Rail Gun mounted on the CS Command Car.

weights 90lbs, (sans ammo, mind), does a respectable 6D6MD... at a range of two freaking miles.

Two. Miles.

Every CS Cyborg should have this thing. This should be the cupola weapon/light rail gun weapon emplaced on every CS vehicle in place of the current weirdly-named ones that are all different. The Smiling Jack should carry this thing. Mount them on the Scout Rocket Cycle and the Skycycles.

Holy crap it is it good.

Yep. I still remember when our GM got Coalition War Campaign and said "Wait...hey, look at this because I must be reading it wrong," and handed me the book. Then we looked and saw that it said that Northern Gun and the black market sell knock-offs, with "copies" in parenthesis after it, and that they come complete with a light rail gun, including 450,000 for a rebuilt one. So the question was, does that include the ability to make copies of the C-30R.

Two coin flips later, and the answer was "yes, yes it does." And that was how the N101 and N202 basically disappeared from the market.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Oh, and the CS seems to have hit the "we did it better" nail in at least ONE spot:

The excellent C-30R Light Rail Gun mounted on the CS Command Car.

weights 90lbs, (sans ammo, mind), does a respectable 6D6MD... at a range of two freaking miles.

Two. Miles.

Every CS Cyborg should have this thing. This should be the cupola weapon/light rail gun weapon emplaced on every CS vehicle in place of the current weirdly-named ones that are all different. The Smiling Jack should carry this thing. Mount them on the Scout Rocket Cycle and the Skycycles.

Holy crap it is it good.

You just -had- to give me another freakin' toy to play around with....now that I noticed this overlooked piece of canon.....Black Market copies coming down the pipeline.

If you want to disallow it, you could rule that the two mile range is because of the targeting system, not the gun itself.

first off of course, if you want to do that in your setting, then do it

so not to poke holes in it but...

the nutrient paste is not really a crucial aspect of the armor itself, helpful for long periods in it, but not super important and could probably just make a smoothy and fill the container (but need to clean it out better/more often if it's not refrigerated)

the average energy life of 25 years means some would not last that long and some would last longer, but you could probably count on at least 10 years after the cataclysm before any really needed to worry about fuel or replacement power generators, by that time there are probably more than a few scraped GB's to pull parts from, and some small defensible settlements where they might power down the armor and only pull it out for big threats to lengthen the life of the unit

ammo would depend a lot on if you were using the R:UE ones that carry what? 500, or 1000 rounds? i doubt they would have mini factories to make ammo with, since they would have had entire military infrastructure to supply them with ammo, and "portable unit" would probably be about the size of a cargo truck 100 miles from the front line (the mini factory seems even less likely if you use the new count since i don't think they'd have been expected to fire hundreds of rounds before returning to, or holding a new area they could have ammo shipped out to)

the armor of course could use parts from other units that were partly destroyed and just swap out a part, but also one that was wrecked in nearly it's entirety might have some salvageable parts that could be modified (take some leg armor to patch up the torso on another etc) or if the armor was banged up but not breached it could be banged back out and softer filler armor replaced underneath

of course the stockpiles were mentioned, but they probably would have known the location of factories they might have got running at least in part and lost over the years as the people that knew of it died, or it got overtaken (they may even have scuttled itif they thought it would be turned against them)

but, i think the one real key point is the GB's were legendary, something that is common place doesn't become legendary so even if only 1-2% was fixed, restored and handed down to the modern era that makes it more legendary (also how many of the stories are actually true? how many people were actually AT woodstock compared to how many people CLAIM they were at woodstock? lol)

keir451 wrote:A portable kit makes sense. I always equip my pilots with the skill "General Repair and Maintenance" as it seems really stupid that you can't perform basic repairs and maintenance on your equipment. That way you'd only need a Operator for any major repairs.

well there are a lot of people now, who drive cars and don't know how to change a tire, so that's probably more on a pilot, by pilot basis lol