Didn't Book 2: Old Ones contain stats for an Old One?

[thorr-kan]

I thought there was an Old One asleep in The Place of Magic. Was it in 1st or 2nd edition of the book? If so, page number?

[kiralon]

1st ed book had the old ones stats but they were a lot weaker then they would be in second ed.
eg in first ed gods had hundreds of hp, rather then thousands of hp and sdc.
In first ed the old ones have 10000 to 80000 hp, so a couple of extra zeroes for 2nd wouldn't be out the question.
Godblaze does 1million damage from memory and im pretty sure they would have tried that against the old ones.

I base the old ones off of cthulu sorta. You cant hurt them and they kill 1d6 PC's per round. No saving throw, no dodge, ur dead. Picking a fight with an old one is like picking a fight with the sun, and you have a pebble to hurt it with. That's why they don't have stats. The players character sheet has a better chance of beating a bonfire then they do of hurting one. Even syth, the one that is too weak to be a real old one is too tough to have stats.

But syth is on page 223 of the 2nd ed book (no stats), last page of first ed book for the others

[thorr-kan]

But syth is on page 223 of the 2nd ed book (no stats), last page of first ed book for the others

Is Syth in the 1st Ed book?

[Lord Malachdrim]

I'm pretty sure the Old One in the adventure is not named in the 1st ed printing.

[kiralon]

no its not, syth is only in the second ed book.

[Suicycho]

As with Cthulhu, simply gazing upon an old one should drive a normal person insane.

[thorr-kan]

Thanks everybody.

I was *sure* I remembered Syth from 1ED. Guess I was wrong, eh?

Off to buy 2ED...

[kiralon]

remember, no stats for him though

[thorr-kan]

remember, no stats for him though

That's what Dragons and Gods is for. I think a sleeping, minor Old One could be statted.

But when he's outta SDC and hit points, you've woken him up. Well done, heroes!

[eliakon]

remember, no stats for him though

That's what Dragons and Gods is for. I think a sleeping, minor Old One could be statted.

But when he's outta SDC and hit points, you've woken him up. Well done, heroes!

My solution was to use the stats in the book as the stats of an essence fragment...
...I.e. if a fragment gets loose, then that is what it would look like...

[glitterboy2098]

because if it you give it stats, players might actually be able to kill it.

[kiralon]

because if it you give it stats, players might actually be able to kill it.

or worse, think they can.

[Drex]

No stats just reread old ones a few days ago. but I think personally "stats" for any kind of god or old one would be stats of like their avatar, not the actual being.

[Reagren Wright]

The witch has gift of union which means she knows all the spells known to the Old One — levels 1-15 at 10th level power and proficiency.
All the magic known by the witch's master is at one-third the creatures normal range of knowledge and spell strength. That mean his magic is at
30th level. It also says his power is currently reduced to 1/100 its normal level. So does that mean he is at 3000th level? That seems a bit to far
fetch. I mean if the Old One cast a wall of stone it would be 24000x24000x12000? He's doing 3000D6 fire ball? I'd say to stay within the realm of
normal game mechanic be at 30th level and use stats for an Alien Intelligence but maybe add a 0 to SDC, Hit Points, attributes, P.P.E, etc and give them an A.R. of 17. Don't forget the deific powers. You could ever go as far as make them M.D.C. beings in a S.D.C. world meaning nothing hurts them unless it does over 100 S.D.C. for 1 point of damage.

[kiralon]

From 1st Ed
Magic Abilities: ALL spells, elemental spells, circles and wards at 20th level proficiency.

[eliakon]

The witch has gift of union which means she knows all the spells known to the Old One — levels 1-15 at 10th level power and proficiency.
All the magic known by the witch's master is at one-third the creatures normal range of knowledge and spell strength. That mean his magic is at
30th level. It also says his power is currently reduced to 1/100 its normal level. So does that mean he is at 3000th level? That seems a bit to far
fetch. I mean if the Old One cast a wall of stone it would be 24000x24000x12000? He's doing 3000D6 fire ball? I'd say to stay within the realm of
normal game mechanic be at 30th level and use stats for an Alien Intelligence but maybe add a 0 to SDC, Hit Points, attributes, P.P.E, etc and give them an A.R. of 17. Don't forget the deific powers. You could ever go as far as make them M.D.C. beings in a S.D.C. world meaning nothing hurts them unless it does over 100 S.D.C. for 1 point of damage.

POWER is reduced. Not level
His abilities are cut down. Thus he only has 1% of his PPE avaliable, 1% of his ISP, 1% of his HP...
His level never changes, just how much he can use with that level.

As for the ludicrously powerful. People forget this are the Old Ones. These are bad guys that took the entire combined forces of light and much of the forces of darkness working together to take down. And they still suffered catastrophic casualties.
The battles against them involved using entire races...or pantheons as skirmish troops. Of pitting multiple pantheons against one weakened Old One...as a holding measure. And at the end of the day they were only able to even sort of win because the Old Ones fought a civil war amongst themselves at the same time and because their most powerful leader defected to the other side. Let me say that again.
The entire forces of light were loosing. BUT treachery in the ranks meant that the Old Ones took out some of their number and turned their most powerful leader against them. The victory required that the Old Ones give it to them on a silver platter... a victory where they still lost something like 90% of the races and gods that had fought and where the best they were able to do was to simply put them temporarily to sleep as long as the spells are continuously maintained by the collected power of the most powerful deities in the megaverse.


These guys are basically Sealed Evil In A Can.
They really are beyond game stats

[Axelmania]

It doesn't bother me in the slightest if an Old One's spell damage can match the main guns of a TGE Dreadnought. These ARE the final bosses after all.

Did anyone ever average up how much the Palladium RPG gods got boosted up in Dragons and Gods to figure out how much we should boost up the Old Ones? Or we could just go by Thoth.

[kiralon]

power boost to palladium gods - by about 10x for hp, lots of extra abilities, higher stats, more fleshed out power (like godblaze - do 1million damage to something)
but the dragon gods are tougher again than most of the other gods.

[42dragon]

If I remember correctly (don't have my 1ed copies handy) stats for gods in PF1ed were something like 300HP, maybe 1,000HP. And the lesser imprisoned Old One in Book 2 was like 80,000HP.

So yeah take a 2ed Dragon God and then multiply by like x50 for a lesser and x100+ for a greater old one. And set the level at what ever you want, and don't forget special powers like unknown magics, creating things at will, and possibly just wiping things from existence.

So yeah, no something you fight.

[Axelmania]

The most interesting would be to compare Thoth in 1e to Xy in 1e and then modify Thoth in 2e the same way.

Where is the 1/100 power text anyway?

[kiralon]

Thoth in first ed is basically a level 6-8 fighter/level 13 wizard with psionics at level 6 and almost 500 hp.
1 great horned dragon might kill him, 2 would kill him, well at least make him run.
1 lvl 12 human fire elementalist probably would kill him, a party of level 12 characters would very likely kill him

[Rogerd]

I wish I had kept that particular first edition as it is without a doubt the best god book ever done by Palladium. I do search for copies of it intermittently without luck. Getting a pdf version would be rarer than rocking horse poop.

[kiralon]

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/60 ... tion-Rules

Try this one if your are talking about the old ones book

[Rogerd]

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/60660/Palladium-RPG-Book-II-Old-Ones--1st-Edition-Rules

Try this one if your are talking about the old ones book

Thanks for that, but I was referring to 1ed Dragons and Gods. Is there a copy of that floating around anywhere?

[kiralon]

No such thing, dragons and gods was only released as second ed. In first ed the gods were in the main book, and so were the dragons and elementals for that matter.

[Rogerd]

No such thing, dragons and gods was only released as second ed. In first ed the gods were in the main book, and so were the dragons and elementals for that matter.

Thnaks that is awesome.

[Whiskeyjack]

According to Dragons and Gods, Thoth only actually has 40,000 HP, and 6200 SDC. In Rifts he has 40,000 MDC.
By comparison, Styphon has 23,500 SDC and 20,900 HP or 44,000 MDC.

[kiralon]

Thoth isn't Xy, hes a cut down xy

in first ed ya-blik has 80000hp and he was second to xy
also in first ed styphon the black has 550hp

[Whiskeyjack]

I was just posting what his current stats are. He thinks he has 8470 hit points, but actually has 40,000. It then notes that Alien Intelligences are extremely powerful.

[kiralon]

Well if styphon went from 500 to 44000. id expect Xy fully intact would have over 100,000 mdc.

[eliakon]

Well if styphon went from 500 to 44000. id expect Xy fully intact would have over 100,000 mdc.

If he went from 550 to 44,000
Then he would have well over 3,200,000 MDC
Considering that the average boost was around x40, and that the Old Ones had something like 80,000+ HP.
remember, Styphon had a few hundred HP where as the old ones had tens of thousands.
They were, each, hundreds of times more potent then the most powerful gods. And that may have been their sleeping stats for all we know too!

At the end of the day the Old Ones aren't something you can fight.
You just can't.
It took basically everyone else in the megaverse to fight them last time, and the Old Ones only lost because they choose to loose. And even then they couldnt be killed, just imprisoned and put to sleep. A sleep where they are *still* powerful enough to create witches, empower priests taint Millenium Trees, warp rune weapons, create radioactive mega-dragons and other such minor pranks.

You know... the sort of things that most gods need to use primal deific powers to accomplish, or deliberate acts of will... they do, unconciously, in their sleep, while imprisoned in the most powerful magic prisons that the forces of light could build.

[Axelmania]

What's more important than their max MDC is how fast the old ones heal, and how quickly you would need to damage them to wake them up.