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Hi all writting this on my phone so excuse brevity.

Power combo - massive damage capacity and multiple beings. Does it work?

Next, if the above works is this mix possible?

Massive damage capacity + multiple beings + Energy doppelganger + sonic flight + control void + Super liminal flight? For a godling villain based on PU2 immortal with skills increase with experience power set.

Next, if the above was based on a changeling/natural shapeshifter could each of the multiple beings shape shift?

Hell separate question, changeling + multiple beings selves, can each clone shape shift?

This is pure theory craft but may make a villain for an epic campaign

Yes for possible and yes for it being functional. I do remember somewhere in the actual books where they say for balance's sake any change form powers should not be combined, so say, growth and aps metal and bear (a character that did appear in one of our campaigns by the way) or multiple beings-growth-aps lava can be combined but are a bad idea for obvious reasons and characters should only be able to use one of those powers at a time, but if your dm allows it, I dont see why your build wouldnt be a good supervillain in such a game. As a dm I dont see why such a build wouldnt make a good villain for characters who also had the same build parameters. Other than multiple beings is a massive pain in the butt no matter what powers you combine it with as both a player and a gm.

I know I wouldnt personally have as much fun with multiple beings aps light as I think I would, but the low key shapeshifter version with less multiple being and more multiple faces has been magnificently fun for me for nearly a decade. It helped me get away from my karmic intangible infatuation. I'm still a tai chi overcharge addict though. Boy howdy would 15 copies of a 15th level tai chi master where all of them had chi overcharged be nuts. I've promised myself I've moved on though. In the words of doctor ian malcolm, I could... I just had to stop to think if I really should. I've really enjoyed what i've chosen instead of multiple beings. Its a power that always sounds more fun than it is in actual play. Other players at your table start to resent ya pretty quick.

Like summoners in pathfinder and D&D. Once you start stealing all the action economy at the table, the fun at the table drops pretty quick.

TLDR: the most important question for any multiple beings character is 'would the table enjoy it'.

Agree with the sentiment, that's why the character is probably a long term dimension spanning villain. A PC with this power would be quite a head ache.

Seems like you have had a lot of fun in your game, thanks for your input!

Baron mugwort wrote:Power combo - massive damage capacity and multiple beings. Does it work?

Why not?

Baron mugwort wrote:Next, ... Massive damage capacity + multiple beings + Energy doppelganger + sonic flight + control void + Super liminal flight?

Munch much? (Rhetorical) LOL

Baron mugwort wrote:For a godling villain based on PU2 immortal with skills increase with experience power set.

Definitely call munchkin on how PU2 treats Immortals, myself. We do have books dealing with both Gods and Infernals, setting Megaversal Standards, PU2 and Armageddon Unlimited deviates. Supers/Immortals should never be confused/conflated with Gods and/or Infernals. Each deals with "Immortality" differently, effectively creating Megaversal Power-Level Standards ("Standard"/Low-End Mortals, Supers, "Immortals" (High-End Mortals/Supers), Infernals, Gods, Alien Intelligences) that should not stack with each other. (Not to say that there can be no advancement, just that each is handled differently.)
I also disagree with all of the cheese-sauce bonuses/abilities that PU2 offers to the various "Immortals". Keep in mind ...

HU-2E, pg. 180 wrote:A demigod-like Mega-Hero ... is an option that builds on a character that has already been "rolled up."

Just pick any mortal race, roll it up as per the write-up, add the Immortal template, and call it good.

Though, in the end, PU2 does a good job expanding on the Immortal from HU-2E aside from all of that.

Baron mugwort wrote:Next, if the above was based on a changeling/natural shapeshifter could each of the multiple beings shape shift?

Why not?

Baron mugwort wrote:Hell separate question, changeling + multiple beings selves, can each clone shape shift?

Nope. Same question. Watch ...

Baron mugwort wrote:Next, if the above was based on a changeling/natural shapeshifter could each of the multiple beings shape shift?

LOL

Baron mugwort wrote:This is pure theory craft but may make a villain for an epic campaign

Do whatever you want in your own campaign.



Cr'Imson

I think it's up to you if you're the gm, but you are not supposed to stack bonuses from the flight powers. I think the general rule is pick one, or the other, but you can't use them both at the same time and the bonuses don't add together.

I think the same rule applies to energy dopples/Multiple selves/ Swarm Self.
CES

Your powers do work. But if you want a good villain I would go for something harder.
Invaluablity. Zombie flesh. Mdc. Snps. Sonic speed and Aps light.

csyphrett wrote:you are not supposed to stack bonuses from the flight powers. I think the general rule is pick one, or the other, but you can't use them both at the same time and the bonuses don't add together.

Probably, but the bonuses for sonic flight / sonic speed always seemed so unimpressive to me that I would not only allow bonuses to stack, but REQUIRE them to, and have Extraordinary Speed / Wingless Flight as prerequisite minor powers for being able to select the Major Powers.

csyphrett wrote:I think the same rule applies to energy dopples/Multiple selves/ Swarm Self.

I imagine that Swarm Self would fall into the APS-like category, preventing simultaneous use by the original (you couldn't swarm while split) but I don't see any reason why your copies couldn't use Swarm, since they aren't actually using the Multiple Selves power (they don't even have it). Similarly if you had APS Metal and Multiple Selves, I think your clones should be able to turn metal, but you couldn't until you absorbed them.

Energy Doppleganger isn't APS-like so I don't believe there would be any restrictions with using it with Multiple Selves. Nor with the Mirror Mastery ability. Those 3 together make a great combo for disposable minions.

redfoxx01 wrote:Your powers do work. But if you want a good villain I would go for something harder.
Invaluablity. Zombie flesh. Mdc. Snps. Sonic speed and Aps light.

why even bother statting out an enemy if you're going to give him, literally, three different ways to be invulnerable?

Sheesh

There is a certain point where the stacking of powers results in an "I win" character. You can't really be defeated, so you have no challenges. When applying this to a villain, they take over the world unchallenged and the heroes are powerless to stop them. That's not a game...

exactly, and if nobody in the power has magic or psionics, its just over. And if someone does? then the entire party needs to ensure this BA villain doesn't slaughter them immediately.

As someone in my gaming group said, "If I see this sort of baddie, My next character will have invulnerability, zombie flesh, APS: light, supernatural strength, and sonic speed" Ie: Serve him back some of the same sauce he's doling out.

Father Goose wrote:There is a certain point where the stacking of powers results in an "I win" character. You can't really be defeated, so you have no challenges. When applying this to a villain, they take over the world unchallenged and the heroes are powerless to stop them. That's not a game...

Eh. Sure it is. If all the PC's are Mega Hero level too it can work out fine. the point of the GM is to balance threats against the abilities of the party. if the party is redicuously strong they need a redicuously strong villian to challange them.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Father Goose wrote:There is a certain point where the stacking of powers results in an "I win" character. You can't really be defeated, so you have no challenges. When applying this to a villain, they take over the world unchallenged and the heroes are powerless to stop them. That's not a game...

Eh. Sure it is. If all the PC's are Mega Hero level too it can work out fine. the point of the GM is to balance threats against the abilities of the party. if the party is redicuously strong they need a redicuously strong villian to challange them.

From experience, I can attest that it doesn't work. You reach a point where combat is nearly impossible to resolve and then it just becomes an hours long slugfest that cannot be resolved. I tried it, just to see how a massive megahero throwdown would go. After two days (real time) the combat was not resolved and we quit.
So I stand by my previous statement.

Father Goose wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Father Goose wrote:There is a certain point where the stacking of powers results in an "I win" character. You can't really be defeated, so you have no challenges. When applying this to a villain, they take over the world unchallenged and the heroes are powerless to stop them. That's not a game...

Eh. Sure it is. If all the PC's are Mega Hero level too it can work out fine. the point of the GM is to balance threats against the abilities of the party. if the party is redicuously strong they need a redicuously strong villian to challange them.

From experience, I can attest that it doesn't work. You reach a point where combat is nearly impossible to resolve and then it just becomes an hours long slugfest that cannot be resolved. I tried it, just to see how a massive megahero throwdown would go. After two days (real time) the combat was not resolved and we quit.
So I stand by my previous statement.

And I stand by mine. Just because your group didn't find a balance that doesn't take ages to resolve doesn't mean that such a balance doesn't exist. That's a bit too much of "It didn't work for me therefore it can't work for anyone ever". If everyone stocks up on SDC but not so much on damage it can happen, but there are plenty of ways to end fights that have nothing to do with slugfests. the game has powers that can end a fight in a hurry regardless of how much SDC/HP they have.

Heck, just take Disruptive Touch. Save vs 15 with no bonuses. So it doesn't matter how many bonus's they've stacked up, they only ever have a 25% chance of resisting. You can blind them, paralyze them one limb at a time, or just straight up go for a knockout touch that will take them out of the fight instantly. And that's not even munching up. That's just taking one power and using it as intended. You can end a fight with just a few successful to-strike rolls and it doesn't matter what your damage is or how much SDC or saves they've beefed up.

And that's just one! There are lots of powers that meant to quickly incapacitate that don't care how much SDC someone has. There's more to being a Megahero than big numbers. There's clever power selection.

Gravity Powers and just making the guy float unable to reach the ground when he doesn't have any ranged powers... and if he does spin him like a top till he hurls.


Daniel Stoker

I have had an ancient master take out groups of supervillains.

And Dan wrecked an ancient menace with a tree.

I'm bad assssss!!!!
Eat a walnut.
My stomach hurts!!!!

The trick is to be writing characters and villains that are there for a story.
Not there to beat the other side.
When the players and the GM go full adversarial with the PCs trying to "beat the GM" and the GM seeking to "beat the players" the game is over really. It becomes a PvP deathmatch at that point not an RPG.

I have run games with absurdly powerful foes, even games with foes that simply could not be beaten in a straight up slugfest. Not because I was seeking to beat the players though, but because that particular game there was a reason for it. A McGuffin to get to depower the villain, or a quest to solve, or a diplomatic solution or something.

I have run games with very powerful PCs and with weak PCs, and even games with a mix.
The main issue, as I see it, is that you need
-PC buy in to the plot of the story, what ever that plot is.

-You need your group all on the same page. If you have two combat wombats, a socialite, a detective and a reclusive hacker someone is probably going to feel left out.

-You need to have an endgame in mind when you put in your villains. This is not a call for a scripted rail road, but you need to have at least one or two ways already planned out that the party can deal with the situation. Ways that make sense based on the groups make up, previous actions, and abilities.
If the foe can only be harmed by magic then it is probably not something that you should be throwing at a group that not only has no magic, but has no ready access to magic or a history of using magic. That's not "a cleaver hidden weakness" that's just flat out being cruel. Now if the party has magic? Or even has magic using friends that they can, and do, reliably turn to for magical aid? Yeah a threat that they need to get those friends to help with is cricket. The group might not end up beating the foe directly... but instead they may have to track down some spell components for their magic using friend. Or come up with payment. Or maybe the mages will help out now... but afterwards they will need a favor... and another story.