jaymz wrote:Yeah I am one of the people he's helped as well (I cannot possibly tell you the number of hours Seto and I spent discussing mecha capabilities over msn or facebook messenger )....he is not wrong. My rewrites for Robotech specifically do not represent that disparity (The only Macross proper VF I have added was the VF-0 as the inclusion is not all that hard to pull off compared to all the later generation VFs) and I found myself basically doubling to tripling the various mecha's capabilities in RT in order for it to make sense to even have them exist. Mind you, you can even see there's some inconsistencies even in the 2e RPG...the VF-1 frankly outperforms the Alpha in all respects (except a slight increase on the Alphas MDC compared to the VF-1) and can also match or exceed it in firepower.
That was a bit part of the reason
Robotech's official canon explicitly established that
Robotech's VF-1 ran on nuclear fusion instead... it was an attempt to establish that the Alpha was a more advanced fighter even though it was outperformed in almost every respect by the VF-1.
ShadowLogan wrote:RT TSC ends circa 2045-ish (at least if the other 2 OVAs where produced correct), Macross Delta is what 20+ years later [...]
Macross Delta is set in 2067, though the primary events that set the plot in motion go back to 2060 (and allegedly 2059) and the secondary events go back to 2051 and 2027.
ShadowLogan wrote:[...] Sure it requires some tweaking (these entities are not as old, colonies being established, etc), but nothing that need be shattering.
There's a limit to how much you can tweak before the story starts breaking down.
For instance, Mirage Jenius's whole character arc is built on her being the 18 year old granddaughter of the legendary aces Maximilian and Milia Jenius. You can't shade it out more than a decade or so given the ages of Max and Milia's seven (eight) daughters. Likewise, Windermere IV's plot depends on having fought a war and seceded from the New Unification Government seven years earlier after over three decades as a New Unification Government member world with King Grammier being in his prime during the Second Unification War.
Delta is much more interconnected with other
Macross titles than is usual for a main
Macross series, so the story can't be tweaked very much without breaking it.
ShadowLogan wrote:Off hand no, but there are other aspects to consider with people unfit to serve that go beyond combat injury. People are born with defects that would seriously impair if not prevent them from serving.
Are we sure about that? The UEEF strikes me as a rather utilitarian place that would probably encourage termination of a pregnancy with defects severe enough to prevent them living a normal life due to not having the infrastructure to provide long-term care for the disabled. Either that or their medical technology is even more advanced than it appears (they can apparently heal broken bones in the space of an hour or so) and they can correct defects on the genetic level before birth. I'd prefer the latter, but
Robotech does tend to be a world half empty.
ShadowLogan wrote:This would also mean that the military would have to take over some jobs that they don't normally do (or at least one thinks of them doing). Civilian Colonization efforts might have been suspended (Angel-Class), but the UEEF was building new ships for colonization (Ark Angel Class). So when where the efforts put on hold specifically, and where was the Ark Angel going to get its colonists (or put another way, why work on the AA if you've got no colonists).
As there doesn't appear to have been a civilian space agency, the UEEF appears to have been shouldering the burden of space exploration all alone.
The evident plot holes surrounding the
Robotech official canon's retconned-in space emigration program are exactly that... plot holes introduced by Tommy Yune's attempt to "
Macross-ize"
Robotech's
MOSPEADA-based story going forward to make it more marketable. You can't fault the theory at least, copying successful franchises in the hopes of improving their appeal to a younger audience that really couldn't give a damn about the franchise otherwise. Didn't work, but the theory was sound at least.
The
Ark Angel-class really doesn't make a lick of sense for exactly the reason you identified. Why build colony ships when you have 0 civilians to go set up a colony somewhere? The only reason they exist in-story is to be an ersatz
Macross-class and fill the same role the SDF-1 did as a ship fleeing an alien armada with a crew of refugees from the devastating first strike.
Mind you, we don't know how long it would've taken to actually finish building them as only the one was in flyable condition and even then key systems weren't properly installed yet. It could've been years or decades before they were finished and ready to transport the liberated slave population of Earth to colonize other planets.
ShadowLogan wrote:Without details on what Louie refers to as "old cyborgs" we don't know what the level of cybernetic technology in Robotech is comparable to for Terrans. Then there are aspects of the Masters cybernetic technology that the UEEF might have access to via Tirol.
Humanity in
Robotech doesn't seem to have adopted any alien technology beyond what it reverse-engineered from the SDF-1... the evidence racism (speciesism?) they had towards aliens might have a lot to do with that.
ShadowLogan wrote:Agree, but in Robotech does it have to be just Max/Miriyia or could there be other lesser knowns (aside from the Novel Leonard/Seloy) at least for the purposes of integration. I mean if we forced to make changes to the backstory of one show, it would be fair to make changes to another to make them work together (preferably in either case not in story shattering ways)
Unless there are hundreds of thousands of Zentradi hiding offscreen in defiance of a fairly large plot point from the
Sentinels arc, it doesn't really work.
ShadowLogan wrote:The problem is that the Zentreadi per Robotech Dialogue by the Masters (ep46) "It is obvious this species is not Zentraedi their system of mating and reproduction are unheard of among the Zentraedi". IF the Zentreadi try to do it the "natural" way for humans, then yes, but if they can do it their "natural" way (which apparently is not the human way) then there is a good chance they could experience a population explosion. The main issue I guess is how "natural" Zentreadi reproduction works.
Given that "clone army" is the Zentradi's hat in both universes, wouldn't their natural way be cloning? The cloning technology the UEEF doesn't seem to have anymore?
ShadowLogan wrote:Who said anything about using the possible existence of Zentreadi Evolutionary Cousins to explain away non-Zentreadi aliens in this endevour? I am just saying use the possibility of Zentreadi Evolutionary Cousins to handle specific Zentreadi related issues related to adapting Macross to Robotech. If we go by Sentinels there are 5 races in the Galaxy we did not know about by name (make up the Sentinels) or any real indication from the 85ep, and if we expand to pre-production work for the Sentinels there could be even more. So having non-human and non-Zentreadi aliens would not be setting breaking.
Did'ja forget the Zentradi were the ancient Protoculture's first creation in
Macross? That fact, along with the fact that all sentient humanoid life in the galaxy was created by the Protoculture at the height of their Stellar Republic, is pretty crucial to
Macross Delta's plot. Particularly in connection with Windermere IV's leadership pushing a belief that their people are the chosen inheritors of the ancient Protoculture rather than earlier creations like the humans or Zentradi.