- Is there any reason these rules shouldn't apply to human targets as well as zombies? I see no reason they shouldn't, but it'd be useful if any more seasoned players could point out potential problems with game balance
- Can I/should I apply the same "point blank nullifies AR" rule for any other creature that has a natural AR, not just zombies? For example a giant alien insect with a super hard carapace, or a magical creature that's just innately hard to damage. I'm thinking I could nullify it on a case-by-case basis.
- It doesn't say I shouldn't, but can I apply the same rules to a crossbow/bow and arrow? I'm a semi-trained archer, but I have no experience shooting at anything like "point blank" range. So I'm not sure if I can get away with it from either a "this is a sensible thing that could realistically happen" or a "this fits the game and is balanced" standpoint, if that makes any sense.
Short-range firing clarification
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PalladiumBrony
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Short-range firing clarification
I could do with some clarification on a couple of the rules for short-range shooting as presented on page 183 of the Dead Reign core book:
Re: Short-range firing clarification
As cool as 182's "can't-miss" sounds, it seems really lacking on mechanics regarding how to establish whether you got the barrel against the head/face/limb/body in the first place.
Like for example: should it require rolling some kind of melee attack to strike to get the barrel into contact first, and only THEN do you get the "can't miss" as a followup attack?
Furthermore: how hard is it to keep a barrel on a zombie's head and hold the zombie at bay? A long rifle could in theory keep the zombie far enough back that they can't hit you and could only attack your rifle instead, if the distance between the trigger and barrel was longer than the zombie's arms (most rifles aren't that long)
Bayonets should also in theory be useful here since if you stabbed a zombie it would make it much easier to keep the barrel in contact with their body, whereas simply holding a non-bayoneted barrel on them should be tough as it might slip off to the side as the zombie's body twisted around.
Not really, and I'd like the options for hit locations to be used on humans too.
I wouldn't necessarily use this as a precedent to ignore ALL armor ratings. "Can't-Miss" on pg 182 is only overcoming two things:
1) pg 36's Natural Armor Rating of 14 (so perhaps a reason to assume it works on other creatures with 14 or less AR, but maybe not 15+
2) pg 37's need to roll a natural (no bonuses) 17-20 to hit the neck or head.
The latter (need to roll a 17) functions like an AR of 16, so that might be reason to up the amount of NAR this functions as, but that still leaves AR 17+ off limits.
If you're wanting some other means:
1) HU mentions how a Death Blow can do SDC damage instead of HP if it goes below natural AR
2) Nightbane has some Epsilon troopers who can bypass NAR regardless of strike roll, takes 2 attacks and I think maybe a lore roll?
One initially gets the sense of 'no' from 182's "firearm" mentioning a "gun barrel"... but on 183 under Zombie Combat Notes there's a subtle implication it could apply to more:
That brings up two interesting points: that PP bonuses to strike are useful here (in many Palladium games that is not the case, PP bonuses don't benefit unless you have some kind of Sharpshooting... only exception I can think of is oddly Palladium Fantasy's weird Modern Weapons skill...
Unless I'm missing the text somewhere it seems like we can assume PP +strike (but NOT hand to hand skills) benefits guns in Dead Reign, which I like.
"do not apply to ranged" also obviously has an exception on pg 177 for HTH assassin, which gives explicitly gives such strike bonuses: 5/11 w/thrown and 8/11/15 w/guns
Where assassin is strange is in two cases it has explicit "strike in hand to hand" bonuses (11th and 15th) whereas the 1st level bonus has no such qualifier (just "to strike) which makes me wonder if that's also meant as HTH only or if it applies to guns/thrown too.
It calls out "bows and arrows" as "ranged weapons". If this were the only ranged weapon that could benefit from a PP bonus (which sometimes seems to be implied as a case, a contrast to guns in some games) then saying a PP bonus could apply could be seen as saying that "can't miss" or "shouldn't miss" applies to bows despite not having "gun barrels" or being "firearms".
Like for example: should it require rolling some kind of melee attack to strike to get the barrel into contact first, and only THEN do you get the "can't miss" as a followup attack?
Furthermore: how hard is it to keep a barrel on a zombie's head and hold the zombie at bay? A long rifle could in theory keep the zombie far enough back that they can't hit you and could only attack your rifle instead, if the distance between the trigger and barrel was longer than the zombie's arms (most rifles aren't that long)
Bayonets should also in theory be useful here since if you stabbed a zombie it would make it much easier to keep the barrel in contact with their body, whereas simply holding a non-bayoneted barrel on them should be tough as it might slip off to the side as the zombie's body twisted around.
PalladiumBrony wrote:Is there any reason these rules shouldn't apply to human targets as well as zombies? I see no reason they shouldn't, but it'd be useful if any more seasoned players could point out potential problems with game balance
Not really, and I'd like the options for hit locations to be used on humans too.
PalladiumBrony wrote:Can I/should I apply the same "point blank nullifies AR" rule for any other creature that has a natural AR, not just zombies? For example a giant alien insect with a super hard carapace, or a magical creature that's just innately hard to damage. I'm thinking I could nullify it on a case-by-case basis.
I wouldn't necessarily use this as a precedent to ignore ALL armor ratings. "Can't-Miss" on pg 182 is only overcoming two things:
1) pg 36's Natural Armor Rating of 14 (so perhaps a reason to assume it works on other creatures with 14 or less AR, but maybe not 15+
2) pg 37's need to roll a natural (no bonuses) 17-20 to hit the neck or head.
The latter (need to roll a 17) functions like an AR of 16, so that might be reason to up the amount of NAR this functions as, but that still leaves AR 17+ off limits.
If you're wanting some other means:
1) HU mentions how a Death Blow can do SDC damage instead of HP if it goes below natural AR
2) Nightbane has some Epsilon troopers who can bypass NAR regardless of strike roll, takes 2 attacks and I think maybe a lore roll?
PalladiumBrony wrote:It doesn't say I shouldn't,
but can I apply the same rules to a crossbow/bow and arrow?
One initially gets the sense of 'no' from 182's "firearm" mentioning a "gun barrel"... but on 183 under Zombie Combat Notes there's a subtle implication it could apply to more:
- The bonuses above are in addition to any PP or WP bonuses the character may have.
Hand to hand combat bonuses do not apply to ranged weapons
- guns, bows and arrows, etc.
That brings up two interesting points: that PP bonuses to strike are useful here (in many Palladium games that is not the case, PP bonuses don't benefit unless you have some kind of Sharpshooting... only exception I can think of is oddly Palladium Fantasy's weird Modern Weapons skill...
Unless I'm missing the text somewhere it seems like we can assume PP +strike (but NOT hand to hand skills) benefits guns in Dead Reign, which I like.
"do not apply to ranged" also obviously has an exception on pg 177 for HTH assassin, which gives explicitly gives such strike bonuses: 5/11 w/thrown and 8/11/15 w/guns
Where assassin is strange is in two cases it has explicit "strike in hand to hand" bonuses (11th and 15th) whereas the 1st level bonus has no such qualifier (just "to strike) which makes me wonder if that's also meant as HTH only or if it applies to guns/thrown too.
It calls out "bows and arrows" as "ranged weapons". If this were the only ranged weapon that could benefit from a PP bonus (which sometimes seems to be implied as a case, a contrast to guns in some games) then saying a PP bonus could apply could be seen as saying that "can't miss" or "shouldn't miss" applies to bows despite not having "gun barrels" or being "firearms".