I want to build a stone pyramid - is it possible?

[Nuristas]

Let's start with the basics:

I am a stone master level 6.
I have access to an NPC techno-wizard level 5
We have a nexus which would be good location, or are we better of just putting it on a ley line instead?

What do I need except the available magical skills?
How much would this cost in time and credits?

We would use the pyramid as a base of operations to adventure from and to have something special instead of a bunker, ....
And we are aware that this will cause all kind of problems/jealous people/.... But those are plot hooks and I don't think the GM is going to go overboard on it.

[Library Ogre]

Well, long term, the nexus is better, but it is going to be more expensive to keep (i.e. more people will fight you for your position on a nexus).

Main thing you need? Time. Assuming you have a ready source of stone (which is not a given), you'll be able to make the pyramid given time, especially as the ley lines and nexus will be providing you with PPE. You'll probably also want an architect to help you build the interior of your pyramid (so it remains magically a pyramid but has useful interior space).

As for how much time? Months. Maybe years. A small pyramid is still a LOT of stone, even for a 6th level stone master, and unless you've lucked into a mountain that just needs to be carved into a pyramid shape, you're going to be carting, shaping, and placing stone for a long, long, time.

If you can, you want access to an Earth Warlock or a Summoner... someone who can get you some Earth Elementals and keep the stone coming. Three or four earth elementals summoning and shaping stone will cut down your time considerably.

[Nuristas]

Well, long term, the nexus is better, but it is going to be more expensive to keep (i.e. more people will fight you for your position on a nexus).

Main thing you need? Time. Assuming you have a ready source of stone (which is not a given), you'll be able to make the pyramid given time, especially as the ley lines and nexus will be providing you with PPE. You'll probably also want an architect to help you build the interior of your pyramid (so it remains magically a pyramid but has useful interior space).

As for how much time? Months. Maybe years. A small pyramid is still a LOT of stone, even for a 6th level stone master, and unless you've lucked into a mountain that just needs to be carved into a pyramid shape, you're going to be carting, shaping, and placing stone for a long, long, time.

If you can, you want access to an Earth Warlock or a Summoner... someone who can get you some Earth Elementals and keep the stone coming. Three or four earth elementals summoning and shaping stone will cut down your time considerably.

Thank you for the feedback Mark.

We have access to somebody who could summon a few Earth Elementals as a favor for helping him out in the past. I didn't immediately think of that but now that you mention it, it seems like a great idea.
As for stone, there is a lot of stone not far from where we are. I am curious now what skills we would use to make the plans for a stone pyramid (mathematics: advanced?)
For the building times, I can't really find a guideline since just glossing over what a stone master can do, it seems like it shouldn't take a very long time.
If I remember correctly, the whole collegiate arcanum in MercTown was built in a few months? (MercTown p71)
They also have a rather unique Stone Pyramid there (MercTown p71), I wonder if it is possible to include that feature since the Archmage who built this one isn't even a Stone Master....

[carriath]

Let's start with the basics:

I am a stone master level 6.
I have access to an NPC techno-wizard level 5
We have a nexus which would be good location, or are we better of just putting it on a ley line instead?

What do I need except the available magical skills?
How much would this cost in time and credits?

We would use the pyramid as a base of operations to adventure from and to have something special instead of a bunker, ....
And we are aware that this will cause all kind of problems/jealous people/.... But those are plot hooks and I don't think the GM is going to go overboard on it.

To quote my favorite demotivational poster:

"ACHIEVEMENT

You can do anything you set your mind to when you have vision, determination, and an endless supply of expendable labor."

[Nuristas]

Let's start with the basics:

I am a stone master level 6.
I have access to an NPC techno-wizard level 5
We have a nexus which would be good location, or are we better of just putting it on a ley line instead?

What do I need except the available magical skills?
How much would this cost in time and credits?

We would use the pyramid as a base of operations to adventure from and to have something special instead of a bunker, ....
And we are aware that this will cause all kind of problems/jealous people/.... But those are plot hooks and I don't think the GM is going to go overboard on it.

To quote my favorite demotivational poster:

"ACHIEVEMENT

You can do anything you set your mind to when you have vision, determination, and an endless supply of expendable labor."

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Do you have any ideas about how to speed it up or make it more achievable? Or how to get more expendable labor?

[Library Ogre]

As for stone, there is a lot of stone not far from where we are. I am curious now what skills we would use to make the plans for a stone pyramid (mathematics: advanced?)

A small pyramid is at least 100 feet tall. Assuming it is also 100 feet on a side, you wind up with 333,333 cubic feet of stone. At about 170 pounds per cubic foot (quick Wikipedia search). This means a pyramid is about 56,666,666 pounds, or 28,333 tons. Since you can move 1.5 tons at a time (abilities 4 & 5), you can do it in 18,888 minutes, or about 13 days and 2 hours of constant work, assuming you don't have to move the rock very far.

I would round it up to about 3 weeks of work, assuming you have some earth elementals around JUST to make rock. It goes a lot faster if you can get them to move stuff around, too.

As for skills, there's no explicit architecture skill that I know of, but that's what you'd need. Barring that, something like Fortifications skills might do, in a pinch.

[Orin J.]

As for skills, there's no explicit architecture skill that I know of, but that's what you'd need. Barring that, something like Fortifications skills might do, in a pinch.

it's in heroes unlimited, i think. that of after the bomb? pretty sure it's in HU though.

[glitterboy2098]

As for stone, there is a lot of stone not far from where we are. I am curious now what skills we would use to make the plans for a stone pyramid (mathematics: advanced?)

A small pyramid is at least 100 feet tall. Assuming it is also 100 feet on a side, you wind up with 333,333 cubic feet of stone. At about 170 pounds per cubic foot (quick Wikipedia search). This means a pyramid is about 56,666,666 pounds, or 28,333 tons. Since you can move 1.5 tons at a time (abilities 4 & 5), you can do it in 18,888 minutes, or about 13 days and 2 hours of constant work, assuming you don't have to move the rock very far.

assuming it maintains a slope of 51.5 degrees like that of most of the egyptian pyramids, a 100ft tall pyramid would have sides 156.5ft long, a slant height of 125ft (height of each side measured along the slope), a lateral edge length of 149.19 ft (length of one of the vertical edges), a surface area of 64286.26 ft^2 (including the base) and a volume of 817200 ft^3
if using limestone like the egyptian ones (density of 2160 kg/m3) you would be looking at quarrying and moving at minimum 49,983,538.32 kilograms of rock. or around fifty thousand metric tons.

make sure you have a very good foundation.

[taalismn]

Also make sure you're reading the plans right.
Nothing sez FAIL like a dimensional pyramid standing upside down with its apex embedded in the ground.

[Axelmania]

Well, long term, the nexus is better, but it is going to be more expensive to keep (i.e. more people will fight you for your position on a nexus).

I want to figure out how much a pyramid would weigh and how hard it would be to lift it... like was there anything about "and you can't move the pyramid" preventing from someone making one that might move up and down a given ley line (perhaps even cross onto different ones) for strategic value?

Permanence-warded weight-reduction spells might make it feasile though that'd take a lot of demon bones.

[SpiritInterface]

How does one take control of a pyramid and how do you change who controls it? Can someone try and wrest control away from the person who currently controls it?

[Curbludgeon]

General question: Can any Elemental Forces draw P.P.E. from ley lines?

First, I hope you're using Dimension Book 15: Secrets of the Atlanteans, because it has a strictly better version of the Stone Master.

Skillwise a level 6 Stone Master should be set, with Masonry 80%, Mathematics:Advanced 90%, and Advanced Knowledge of Stone Pyramids 90%, before any IQ bonus. Note the description of that final skill (pg 118) is different than other O.C.C. descriptions of Operate Stone Pyramid, and can be argued to include the actual building of pyramids.

If instead of the Egyptian style pyramids the Stone Master builds a later Nubian style pyramid considerably less material is involved. With a slope of 70 degrees the 100' tall pyramid would have a side length of 72.94', and a volume of 176632ft[sup]3[/sup]. The sandstone and granite used is similar in average density to limestone, and assuming a solid pyramid of those dimensions were built it would weigh just over 30 million pounds, or 15,000 tons. A 6th level Stone Master at a nexus point can move 3 tons of stone a minute.

Unfortunately specific times aren't given for the molding of stone, save the P.P.E./hour to do so. Additionally, the pyramid clearly wouldn't be solid. Going by the layouts in DB15 they're maybe 40-50% open space, which is many times more than any existing ancient pyramids. I'm going to go with 8000 tons needed, which with 10' ceilings gives ~9400 square feet of internal space.

There are several ways summoning can potentially speed things up. Minor Earth Elementals of various types (check out Conversion Book 3: Dark Conversions) and Essence Fragments (Little Mud Mounds) can Create Dirt or Clay, Dig, Mend Stone(which can arguably be used on newly formed bricks), and physically pick up things, while LMM can additionally ooze between seams between stones before mending them. Major Elemental can additionally Create Stone(!), turn Clay to Stone, and summon Minor Elementals and LMM, the latter of which provides a source of PPE which can be used to summon more LMM. Building the pyramid on a nexus point makes that less of a gamechanger than otherwise. A 5th level dedicated Earth Warlock (or a 6th level Earth/X Warlock) can have both the Clay to Stone and Little Mud Mound spells, as well as summon Minor Elementals. It's debatable if a Major Elemental can be summoned by a Shifter but a low level Summoner could do it, although that's pulling from a different setting.

A chokepoint with summoning is that a Stone Master can't turn Clay into Stone. It would take ~270 straight hours of casting for the 5th level Warlock to convert 8000 tons of clay.

Access to Major Earth Elemental: the MEE creates 200 pounds of stone roughly in situ 6 times/round, summoning a Little Mud Mound every 10 tons to syphon its P.P.E. or drawing upon the ley line as needed. 8000 tons of stone can be created in 55.55 hours, well within the 1 week deadline for a check to break free. The Stone Master shapes and places the stone at the same time, which is 44.44 hours if each pound of stone only has to be moved once, plus however long the shaping takes. After all the stone is created the MEE perhaps summons LMM to ooze between the cracks of the placed stones to meld them together.

Access to earth elemental magic, but not Major Earth Elementals: only really useful if the stone has to be carried a long way by hundreds of Little Mud Mounds, or if the Warlock can collaborate with the TW to make an item of Clay to Stone. Making a few TW Insta-kilns and giving them to LMM to use seems like the most fun solution.

No access to summoning or elemental magic: If the Stone Master is carving into a mountain or something then it's a couple of weeks of work, maybe with the TW casting something to let the Stone Master forgo sleep. Having to cart the stone more than a couple of hundred feet adds time exponentially.

[pad300]

I seem to recall something about Technowizards, Gem Magic, and so forth having to work with natural gemstones only. I'd question if a pyramid made of magically created stone would work... I also second GB2098, be very careful of your foundation.

[Giant2005]

Well, long term, the nexus is better, but it is going to be more expensive to keep (i.e. more people will fight you for your position on a nexus).

I want to figure out how much a pyramid would weigh and how hard it would be to lift it... like was there anything about "and you can't move the pyramid" preventing from someone making one that might move up and down a given ley line (perhaps even cross onto different ones) for strategic value?

Permanence-warded weight-reduction spells might make it feasile though that'd take a lot of demon bones.

An extremely Strong (P.S. 40) Stone Master could carry 20 tons of stone, which is quite a bit short of the 8000 tons needed (provided the 100' height minimum for a "small" pyramid is as small as they can actually get and still function).
9975 out of every 10,000 bricks would have to have their weight reduced to nothing via the Featherlight spell for that extremely strong Stone Master to lift it.
If the caster of Featherlight was level 10, each brick would have to be small enough to weigh 1 ton, which means the 8000 ton pyramid would require 7980 castings of Featherlight to be made permanent in order to be light enough to be moved.

[Killer Cyborg]

As for stone, there is a lot of stone not far from where we are. I am curious now what skills we would use to make the plans for a stone pyramid (mathematics: advanced?)

A small pyramid is at least 100 feet tall. Assuming it is also 100 feet on a side, you wind up with 333,333 cubic feet of stone. At about 170 pounds per cubic foot (quick Wikipedia search). This means a pyramid is about 56,666,666 pounds, or 28,333 tons. Since you can move 1.5 tons at a time (abilities 4 & 5), you can do it in 18,888 minutes, or about 13 days and 2 hours of constant work, assuming you don't have to move the rock very far.

assuming it maintains a slope of 51.5 degrees like that of most of the egyptian pyramids, a 100ft tall pyramid would have sides 156.5ft long, a slant height of 125ft (height of each side measured along the slope), a lateral edge length of 149.19 ft (length of one of the vertical edges), a surface area of 64286.26 ft^2 (including the base) and a volume of 817200 ft^3
if using limestone like the egyptian ones (density of 2160 kg/m3) you would be looking at quarrying and moving at minimum 49,983,538.32 kilograms of rock. or around fifty thousand metric tons.

make sure you have a very good foundation.

Actually, yeah, that's a great point!
Ideally, if I were a GM I'd want an architect to be involved (or somebody with that skill) to account for that kind of thing, and geology wouldn't hurt when it comes to scoping out the terrain.
You don't want to do the Monty Python thing of building a castle only to watch it sink into the swamp, then building another and watching that one sink, and finally building a third castle on the ruins and it finally manages to not sink because it's got a solid rock foundation.

[Killer Cyborg]

Just for general ideas, you might read up on Coral Castle in Florida.
The guy who built it was, according to legend, basically a Stone Master who moved around massive slabs of granite by himself!

[The Beast]

How does one take control of a pyramid and how do you change who controls it? Can someone try and wrest control away from the person who currently controls it?

That is something I would like to see addressed as well.

[Giant2005]

How does one take control of a pyramid and how do you change who controls it? Can someone try and wrest control away from the person who currently controls it?

I was under the impression that everyone within the pyramid that is capable of using the pyramid's functions is able to do so. Someone deciding to use a function doesn't prevent anyone else from also deciding to use that function.

[glitterboy2098]

Ideally, if I were a GM I'd want an architect to be involved (or somebody with that skill) to account for that kind of thing, and geology wouldn't hurt when it comes to scoping out the terrain.
You don't want to do the Monty Python thing of building a castle only to watch it sink into the swamp, then building another and watching that one sink, and finally building a third castle on the ruins and it finally manages to not sink because it's got a solid rock foundation.

actually the third one burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp.

but the fourth one stayed up. Strongest castle in the land.

mind you this was actually more truth in fiction than i think the writers knew.. many of the castles and great churches of the middle ages were basically built on soft or swampy ground, usually with no real foundations to speak of. and they've been sinking ever since..

[Library Ogre]

Ideally, if I were a GM I'd want an architect to be involved (or somebody with that skill) to account for that kind of thing, and geology wouldn't hurt when it comes to scoping out the terrain.
You don't want to do the Monty Python thing of building a castle only to watch it sink into the swamp, then building another and watching that one sink, and finally building a third castle on the ruins and it finally manages to not sink because it's got a solid rock foundation.

actually the third one burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp.

but the fourth one stayed up. Strongest castle in the land.

mind you this was actually more truth in fiction than i think the writers knew.. many of the castles and great churches of the middle ages were basically built on soft or swampy ground, usually with no real foundations to speak of. and they've been sinking ever since..

I tend to call Houston "Swamp Castle" for this very reason.

[Killer Cyborg]

Ideally, if I were a GM I'd want an architect to be involved (or somebody with that skill) to account for that kind of thing, and geology wouldn't hurt when it comes to scoping out the terrain.
You don't want to do the Monty Python thing of building a castle only to watch it sink into the swamp, then building another and watching that one sink, and finally building a third castle on the ruins and it finally manages to not sink because it's got a solid rock foundation.

actually the third one burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp.

but the fourth one stayed up. Strongest castle in the land.

mind you this was actually more truth in fiction than i think the writers knew.. many of the castles and great churches of the middle ages were basically built on soft or swampy ground, usually with no real foundations to speak of. and they've been sinking ever since..

I tend to call Houston "Swamp Castle" for this very reason.

In my town, they built a jail that was sinking within a year

[Nuristas]

Just for general ideas, you might read up on Coral Castle in Florida.
The guy who built it was, according to legend, basically a Stone Master who moved around massive slabs of granite by himself!

Thanks for the hint!

[Nuristas]

As for stone, there is a lot of stone not far from where we are. I am curious now what skills we would use to make the plans for a stone pyramid (mathematics: advanced?)

A small pyramid is at least 100 feet tall. Assuming it is also 100 feet on a side, you wind up with 333,333 cubic feet of stone. At about 170 pounds per cubic foot (quick Wikipedia search). This means a pyramid is about 56,666,666 pounds, or 28,333 tons. Since you can move 1.5 tons at a time (abilities 4 & 5), you can do it in 18,888 minutes, or about 13 days and 2 hours of constant work, assuming you don't have to move the rock very far.

assuming it maintains a slope of 51.5 degrees like that of most of the egyptian pyramids, a 100ft tall pyramid would have sides 156.5ft long, a slant height of 125ft (height of each side measured along the slope), a lateral edge length of 149.19 ft (length of one of the vertical edges), a surface area of 64286.26 ft^2 (including the base) and a volume of 817200 ft^3
if using limestone like the egyptian ones (density of 2160 kg/m3) you would be looking at quarrying and moving at minimum 49,983,538.32 kilograms of rock. or around fifty thousand metric tons.

make sure you have a very good foundation.

Actually, yeah, that's a great point!
Ideally, if I were a GM I'd want an architect to be involved (or somebody with that skill) to account for that kind of thing, and geology wouldn't hurt when it comes to scoping out the terrain.
You don't want to do the Monty Python thing of building a castle only to watch it sink into the swamp, then building another and watching that one sink, and finally building a third castle on the ruins and it finally manages to not sink because it's got a solid rock foundation.

I asked about that but there are no architecture skills in Rifts that I am aware of. So I suppose we could go for advanced mathematics or some such?

[Prysus]

I asked about that but there are no architecture skills in Rifts that I am aware of. So I suppose we could go for advanced mathematics or some such?

Greetings and Salutations. Well, my first instinct is ... Art might help with the drafting (a bit of a judgment call). Masonry is also extremely useful, as it involves stone construction. I didn't see anything much better in Rifts alone, but I did look through some other books.

Palladium Fantasy Second Edition (main book) has "Underground Architecture" as a natural ability for some races (such as Dwarves, plus others). They retain this ability in Rifts Conversion Book One; Revised (page 85 for Dwarves, but feel free to look at other races with the ability as well). Of course, this is a racial ability, not something that can necessarily be learned. Also, it's specific to being "Underground."

After the Bomb Second Edition (main book) has "Large-Scale Construction" as part of the powers (in this case, training) of Holsteins on page 100. This, again, comes down to more of a racial ability, but could be a good starting point.

Rifter #10, page 20 (as part of the Tinkerer O.C.C.) has "Art: Drafting" as a O.C.C. ability and mentions this covers "architecture and mechanical designs." This is unofficial, and a special O.C.C. ability, but another potential point to consider. In this particular version, it also mentions "Art" (basic skill) will work for this, but at -20%.

Note all of this is Rifts specifically, but can be at least a decent place to start for making a custom skill. If I had to run it, I'd probably stick with the Art and Masonry. Hope some of that helps. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Orin J.]

I asked about that but there are no architecture skills in Rifts that I am aware of. So I suppose we could go for advanced mathematics or some such?

Greetings and Salutations. Well, my first instinct is ... Art might help with the drafting (a bit of a judgment call).

wouldn't let it slide even for a moment. speaking as someone that has tried to design houses as an artist drafting is an entirely different skill from art, and has much more in common with mathematics than anything artistic. drafting is ALSO not engineering and would require that in play to ensure it would stay standing. Architecural design and engineering, however, is a skill i found in my copy of TMNT which is exactly what you'd be looking for. also in my (first ed) copy of HU.

[Prysus]

speaking as someone that has tried to design houses as an artist drafting is an entirely different skill from art, and has much more in common with mathematics than anything artistic.

Greetings and Salutations. I'll definitely agree that Drafting is not the same as Art. Equally, Mathematics is not the same thing as Drafting. In Palladium, a lot of times it's just trying to find the skill that comes closest.

I could argue how I think Art fits closer, but I really don't see the point. As stated, it's a judgment call. I did not state it as fact or the only option.

drafting is ALSO not engineering and would require that in play to ensure it would stay standing.

Again, agreed. There wasn't a good Rifts skill to cover this though (at least not that I saw). With Masonry covering stone construction, I feel this helps cover that area as best as it can with the existing Rifts skills. I included it above, but you decided to cut it out and then act like all I addressed was Drafting. I don't think Mathematics which is the only Rifts skill you suggested entirely covers this either, but you're welcome to disagree.

Side note: I agree Mathematics is probably helpful in the situation, but that had already been brought up. I saw no need to bring it up again and focused on skills that may not have been considered previously.

Architecural design and engineering, however, is a skill i found in my copy of TMNT which is exactly what you'd be looking for. also in my (first ed) copy of HU.

I didn't see it in TMNT, but I did find it in HU1. That would definitely be a skill I'd go with as a G.M. ... if we're still in character creation. I wouldn't require it in an established campaign as it makes it virtually impossible for the character to already have such a skill.

Still, appreciate you bringing up Architectural Design snd Engineering as I eas unaware of that skill before. I always appreciate learning something new. Farewell and safe journeys.

[kaid]

As for stone, there is a lot of stone not far from where we are. I am curious now what skills we would use to make the plans for a stone pyramid (mathematics: advanced?)

A small pyramid is at least 100 feet tall. Assuming it is also 100 feet on a side, you wind up with 333,333 cubic feet of stone. At about 170 pounds per cubic foot (quick Wikipedia search). This means a pyramid is about 56,666,666 pounds, or 28,333 tons. Since you can move 1.5 tons at a time (abilities 4 & 5), you can do it in 18,888 minutes, or about 13 days and 2 hours of constant work, assuming you don't have to move the rock very far.

I would round it up to about 3 weeks of work, assuming you have some earth elementals around JUST to make rock. It goes a lot faster if you can get them to move stuff around, too.

As for skills, there's no explicit architecture skill that I know of, but that's what you'd need. Barring that, something like Fortifications skills might do, in a pinch.

From secrets of atlantis it looks like some other spell casters are needed to do some of the random extra features/functionality but for basic construction I don't see anything that would stop a single stone mage from making a working basic pyramid. Also able to make most of the other random defense stuff that is powered by the pyramid. The amount of stone needed is high but stone masters can move large amounts of stone around pretty easily. Still you are probably looking at a month or so but given you are clearly on a leyline/nexus their stone moving/shaping endurance would be amazing. If the quarry is anywhere along a connecting ley line they should be able to float/carry huge slabs of stone to the build site without much problem.

[kaid]

How does one take control of a pyramid and how do you change who controls it? Can someone try and wrest control away from the person who currently controls it?

I was under the impression that everyone within the pyramid that is capable of using the pyramid's functions is able to do so. Someone deciding to use a function doesn't prevent anyone else from also deciding to use that function.

Pretty much this. if you are in physical contact it seems like if you know how to use the pyramid you can use it. This is why they generally are heavily guarded.

[kaid]

Ideally, if I were a GM I'd want an architect to be involved (or somebody with that skill) to account for that kind of thing, and geology wouldn't hurt when it comes to scoping out the terrain.
You don't want to do the Monty Python thing of building a castle only to watch it sink into the swamp, then building another and watching that one sink, and finally building a third castle on the ruins and it finally manages to not sink because it's got a solid rock foundation.

actually the third one burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp.

but the fourth one stayed up. Strongest castle in the land.

mind you this was actually more truth in fiction than i think the writers knew.. many of the castles and great churches of the middle ages were basically built on soft or swampy ground, usually with no real foundations to speak of. and they've been sinking ever since..

I tend to call Houston "Swamp Castle" for this very reason.

HAHA no kidding. hey lets build a big city by paving over various bayous seriously what can go wrong when suddenly all the wetland now can't hold water.

[kaid]

I asked about that but there are no architecture skills in Rifts that I am aware of. So I suppose we could go for advanced mathematics or some such?

Greetings and Salutations. Well, my first instinct is ... Art might help with the drafting (a bit of a judgment call). Masonry is also extremely useful, as it involves stone construction. I didn't see anything much better in Rifts alone, but I did look through some other books.

Palladium Fantasy Second Edition (main book) has "Underground Architecture" as a natural ability for some races (such as Dwarves, plus others). They retain this ability in Rifts Conversion Book One; Revised (page 85 for Dwarves, but feel free to look at other races with the ability as well). Of course, this is a racial ability, not something that can necessarily be learned. Also, it's specific to being "Underground."

After the Bomb Second Edition (main book) has "Large-Scale Construction" as part of the powers (in this case, training) of Holsteins on page 100. This, again, comes down to more of a racial ability, but could be a good starting point.

Rifter #10, page 20 (as part of the Tinkerer O.C.C.) has "Art: Drafting" as a O.C.C. ability and mentions this covers "architecture and mechanical designs." This is unofficial, and a special O.C.C. ability, but another potential point to consider. In this particular version, it also mentions "Art" (basic skill) will work for this, but at -20%.

Note all of this is Rifts specifically, but can be at least a decent place to start for making a custom skill. If I had to run it, I'd probably stick with the Art and Masonry. Hope some of that helps. Farewell and safe journeys.

The funny thing with stone masters is they could literally just make a giant honking pile of stone. Use their powers to fuse it all together than use their shaping power to just smooth it into the desired pyramid form and then dig in and carve out whatever rooms/areas they want. Due to what they can do with stone manipulation they have options available to them beyond the wildest dreams of pharoes.

[Axelmania]

If the caster of Featherlight was level 10, each brick would have to be small enough to weigh 1 ton, which means the 8000 ton pyramid would require 7980 castings of Featherlight to be made permanent in order to be light enough to be moved.

Perhaps a better option than permanence would just be to make a TW device that would reduce PPE costs to 1 (or less? fractions?) for mass-casting it on bricks constantly.

Or some TTGD version which modified it from a single-use spell to an area-effect that reduced weight of all objects in a certain radius?

[Giant2005]

If the caster of Featherlight was level 10, each brick would have to be small enough to weigh 1 ton, which means the 8000 ton pyramid would require 7980 castings of Featherlight to be made permanent in order to be light enough to be moved.

Perhaps a better option than permanence would just be to make a TW device that would reduce PPE costs to 1 (or less? fractions?) for mass-casting it on bricks constantly.

Or some TTGD version which modified it from a single-use spell to an area-effect that reduced weight of all objects in a certain radius?

That wouldn't work.
The spell can't be used on parts of an object, only the object as a whole. So it can be used on bricks prior to making a pyramid out of them, but once they become a pyramid, then you would need to cast the spell on the entire thing (which isn't feasible, or even useful really).

[Axelmania]

The spell can't be used on parts of an object, only the object as a whole. So it can be used on bricks prior to making a pyramid out of them, but once they become a pyramid, then you would need to cast the spell on the entire thing (which isn't feasible, or even useful really).

When multiple objects become a whole object could get fuzzy at times though... like a stack of bricks vs bricks w/ wet mortar vs bricks w/ dry mortar.

I can't even remember if pyramids are held together by anything like mortar or if it's just mostly gravity.

[Orin J.]

The spell can't be used on parts of an object, only the object as a whole. So it can be used on bricks prior to making a pyramid out of them, but once they become a pyramid, then you would need to cast the spell on the entire thing (which isn't feasible, or even useful really).

When multiple objects become a whole object could get fuzzy at times though... like a stack of bricks vs bricks w/ wet mortar vs bricks w/ dry mortar.

I can't even remember if pyramids are held together by anything like mortar or if it's just mostly gravity.

at this point they're held together by being magic. stones come apart, ceases to be a stone pyramid.

[SpiritInterface]

How does one take control of a pyramid and how do you change who controls it? Can someone try and wrest control away from the person who currently controls it?

I was under the impression that everyone within the pyramid that is capable of using the pyramid's functions is able to do so. Someone deciding to use a function doesn't prevent anyone else from also deciding to use that function.

Pretty much this. if you are in physical contact it seems like if you know how to use the pyramid you can use it. This is why they generally are heavily guarded.

So anyone who walks in can do what ever they want and nobody can prevent that? They can block people from being able to tap any or all of the leylines that it controls?

[Library Ogre]

So anyone who walks in can do what ever they want and nobody can prevent that? They can block people from being able to tap any or all of the leylines that it controls?

Some abilities are available just by being there... others require a True Atlantean or a Stone Mage. While everyone enjoys the natural healing benefits, and reduces stress if they sleep there, only True Atlanteans extend their lives by sleeping in one.

Natural Functions:
Increase Healing
Reduce Ley line Storms
Store PPE
Effects of ley line or nexus when in contact with the pyramid

Requires Stone master or True Atlantean:
Pyramid communication
Teleportation
Dimensional teleportation

Only Stone Master:
Stasis Sleep
Increase power of stone magic (technically natural, but you have to be a stone master, so...)
Create and control ley line storm
Control Weather

[Giant2005]

How does one take control of a pyramid and how do you change who controls it? Can someone try and wrest control away from the person who currently controls it?

I was under the impression that everyone within the pyramid that is capable of using the pyramid's functions is able to do so. Someone deciding to use a function doesn't prevent anyone else from also deciding to use that function.

Pretty much this. if you are in physical contact it seems like if you know how to use the pyramid you can use it. This is why they generally are heavily guarded.

So anyone who walks in can do what ever they want and nobody can prevent that? They can block people from being able to tap any or all of the leylines that it controls?

They can design it so certain functions can only be accessed in certain rooms, the Power Pyramid is a good example. That pyramid's teleportation abilities are restricted to a single room. If someone manages to get in to that room they can use it freely though (provided they have the necessary skill).
If you are worried about certain functions of the pyramid being abused, lock those functions to certain rooms and remove all entrances and exits to that room, so you need to use the pyramid's teleportation ability to enter that room. That would stop anyone from getting in there that hadn't been in there before.

[Nuristas]

How does one take control of a pyramid and how do you change who controls it? Can someone try and wrest control away from the person who currently controls it?

I was under the impression that everyone within the pyramid that is capable of using the pyramid's functions is able to do so. Someone deciding to use a function doesn't prevent anyone else from also deciding to use that function.

Pretty much this. if you are in physical contact it seems like if you know how to use the pyramid you can use it. This is why they generally are heavily guarded.

So anyone who walks in can do what ever they want and nobody can prevent that? They can block people from being able to tap any or all of the leylines that it controls?

They can design it so certain functions can only be accessed in certain rooms, the Power Pyramid is a good example. That pyramid's teleportation abilities are restricted to a single room. If someone manages to get in to that room they can use it freely though (provided they have the necessary skill).
If you are worried about certain functions of the pyramid being abused, lock those functions to certain rooms and remove all entrances and exits to that room, so you need to use the pyramid's teleportation ability to enter that room. That would stop anyone from getting in there that hadn't been in there before.

Question I just thought of: Can there be multiple "regular" pyramids on the same nexus point?

[Giant2005]

Question I just thought of: Can there be multiple "regular" pyramids on the same nexus point?

There sure can. DB15 page 198: "Remember, a nexus point is typically 1-4 miles in diameter, so there is plenty of room for multiple pyramids."

[Nuristas]

Question I just thought of: Can there be multiple "regular" pyramids on the same nexus point?

There sure can. DB15 page 198: "Remember, a nexus point is typically 1-4 miles in diameter, so there is plenty of room for multiple pyramids."

Who controls the ley lines then?

[pad300]

Question I just thought of: Can there be multiple "regular" pyramids on the same nexus point?

There sure can. DB15 page 198: "Remember, a nexus point is typically 1-4 miles in diameter, so there is plenty of room for multiple pyramids."

I seem to recall some text somewhere saying that there can only be 1 pyramid built on a nexus; presumably this means 1 magical pyramid - there's clearly physical room for other pyramids. (And I seem to recall there was a limit of 1 pyramid per X miles of ley line). But I can't remember where.

[Curbludgeon]

There can be multiple pyramids on a ley line or nexus. The Lemuria book goes into this at some length.

DB15 pg 180 describes how most casters don't receive most of the benefits of being on a ley line if the line has a pyramid. This penalty goes away when within 1d4 miles of a nexus, and doesn't affect Stone Masters, Crystal Mages, Earth Warlocks, Earth Elemental Fusionists, and Earth Elementals. That last entry answers my earlier question about Elementals drawing PPE from ley lines, and makes me wonder if their ability to create stone receives a nexus benefit.

Regarding skills, I think trying to add requirements like architecture is adding needless hurdles. The Stone Master is described as being skilled in every aspect of pyramid creation, and while I'd say a run-of-the-mill Stone Master couldn't design another style of building they don't require additional skills to do that for which they are expressly trained. Similarly, skills like geology being used to make assessments concerning things like foundations disregard the Stone Master's natural ability to sense water and stone. It's akin to Lemurian Biomancers being able to engage in genetic manipulation without expressly having skills in it.

On a different matter, I think it's fun to consider other varieties of pyramid, and how different magic-using cultures and traditions might result in different sets of abilities. Perhaps there's a fundamental difference between pyramids created from naturally occuring stone versus those made from stone created by elemental magic, as an example. Lemurian pyramids are described in different terms than Atlantean ones, with different defenses, many ziggurats in close proximity, and integration with biomantic products. Atlantean pyramids seem to have more features that can be incorporated, and interact with both technowizardry and crystal magic. The Hell Pits of WB35 are effectively Soulmantic pyramids.

I began discussing in a thread about Neolithic-era Rifts Earth possible treatments for the Nazca and Agarthan civilizations resulting in substantially different styles of ancient pyramid. The Ba'al Nightlords from Nightbane would have been around in early Sumeria, which had an early pyramid tradition, and would be a neat way to incorporate things like Necromancy (Bone to Stone pyramids!), Illusion, Shadow Magic, and Conjuration.

[Mack]

As an aside, I've got a scene in my mind of a CS Rifts Control Group trying to build a pyramid as an experiment to "control those evil ley lines" but repeatedly failing because they don't fully understand the magical nature of it.

Maj Broz: "Capt, why is the top of our structure now sizzling."
Capt Fred: "Sir, we don't know, but Corp Barney cooked up a pretty good steak on it."

[Library Ogre]

As an aside, I've got a scene in my mind of a CS Rifts Control Group trying to build a pyramid as an experiment to "control those evil ley lines" but repeatedly failing because they don't fully understand the magical nature of it.

Maj Broz: "Capt, why is the top of our structure now sizzling."
Capt Fred: "Sir, we don't know, but Corp Barney cooked up a pretty good steak on it."

I had the idea to play a bunch of True Atlanteans showing up on the planet in Phase World that was utterly drenched with magical energy and rifts, trying to build pyramids to control it. Aggressive terraforming.

[Giant2005]

Question I just thought of: Can there be multiple "regular" pyramids on the same nexus point?

There sure can. DB15 page 198: "Remember, a nexus point is typically 1-4 miles in diameter, so there is plenty of room for multiple pyramids."

Who controls the ley lines then?

They all do.

[Borast]

As several people have said...ensure the ground is stable and able to support the mass of all that stone...and then some!
(A geological engineer would be a great thing! )

If you're concerned about people trying to take it over, you can always try to build into a hill... Nothing I can remember says that the pyramid has to be above ground!

[guardiandashi]

As several people have said...ensure the ground is stable and able to support the mass of all that stone...and then some!
(A geological engineer would be a great thing! )

If you're concerned about people trying to take it over, you can always try to build into a hill... Nothing I can remember says that the pyramid has to be above ground!

or bury it after its done

[Orin J.]

As several people have said...ensure the ground is stable and able to support the mass of all that stone...and then some!
(A geological engineer would be a great thing! )

If you're concerned about people trying to take it over, you can always try to build into a hill... Nothing I can remember says that the pyramid has to be above ground!

what's the cutoff between pyramid and crypt, i wonder?.....

[Nuristas]

As several people have said...ensure the ground is stable and able to support the mass of all that stone...and then some!
(A geological engineer would be a great thing! )

If you're concerned about people trying to take it over, you can always try to build into a hill... Nothing I can remember says that the pyramid has to be above ground!

what's the cutoff between pyramid and crypt, i wonder?.....

even better, There is an example of a pyramid below ground: the one in MercTown

[Axelmania]

at this point they're held together by being magic. stones come apart, ceases to be a stone pyramid.

would be neat for them to go into detail how one enchants individual SDC bricks to become a collective MDC structure

like if stone masters spend an amount of PPE/time doing so