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What do you want the Next Heroes Unlimited,s Book do be?

I love it if they do Training Unlimited with all Updated from Rifter.

I also think Powers Unlimited 4 and Villains Unlimited 2 can be Great.

I love the training stuff from the Rifter, but I have those so a simple revision isn't really that important to me. As for Powers 4, we have a metric sh.. crap ton of powers already so not needed at all. What do we need hmmm

Hardware Unlimited

Yeah that's what we need. For crying out loud at least give us a Raw Preview.

Warshield nailed it.
After that, some setting material would be cool. I'd love a collection of modular setting elements that can be configured as desired for your own HU world.

Yup, HwU.

But maybe as a few books, with other people's hardware variant submissions.
I submitted a psi-builder called a "Techno-Psychic". It is a psychic char that builds "psi-devices". It is somewhere between the BTS Psi-Mechanic and the PF1: I@tEotW Psionic Crystal Device maker (pages 88-104), but is written more as a HwU type char.

Gadgets Unlimited to include gizmos not covered by Super-Invention
Hardware Unlimited
Robotics Unlimited to expand on the Robotics category and include how to account for different size frames, whether huge or tiny. Also, Bionics needs to be included as a form of Robotics and they should have some of the same options available.
Monsters Unlimited with ways to create your own monsters, possibly using BIO-E

I would still like to see the nursery , if any one else remembers that one .

Stone Gargoyle wrote:Gadgets Unlimited to include gizmos not covered by Super-Invention
Hardware Unlimited
Robotics Unlimited to expand on the Robotics category and include how to account for different size frames, whether huge or tiny. Also, Bionics needs to be included as a form of Robotics and they should have some of the same options available.
Monsters Unlimited with ways to create your own monsters, possibly using BIO-E

With Bionics Unlimited as the Bionics section even more so than the Robotics section is very dated and both need an upgrade to their tech.

I heard rumours of an Atorain sourcebook would like to see that as well.

Hell knight wrote:I would still like to see the nursery , if any one else remembers that one .

Oh yes, I remember it. I want to see this book too. Lots of potential there.

Father Goose wrote:Warshield nailed it.
After that, some setting material would be cool. I'd love a collection of modular setting elements that can be configured as desired for your own HU world.

If I understand what you're saying here I had always wanted to see this as an continuing series in the Rifter. Something that could be dropped into any modern PB setting and used in almost any city in the world. It would have a description, maybe a floorplan, few NPCs, HLS's or other adventure ideas. Things like a generic police station, homeless shelter, magic shop, newspaper office, nightclub, bar, hospital, etc. Even things like a random street gang, fence, forger might help.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:Gadgets Unlimited to include gizmos not covered by Super-Invention
Hardware Unlimited
Robotics Unlimited to expand on the Robotics category and include how to account for different size frames, whether huge or tiny. Also, Bionics needs to be included as a form of Robotics and they should have some of the same options available.
Monsters Unlimited with ways to create your own monsters, possibly using BIO-E

The only problem I have with creating all of these books plus the idea of taking all the new skill classes from the Rifter for Training unlimited is that you have effectively rewritten the entire core book but it is spread out all over the place and may not work well with the rules in that book.

Now I have always thought that if you ever did a HU 2.0 this is how it should be done. Core book has super powers, psionics, all the training categories and that's it. Then you get Aliens Unlimited for aliens, Tech unlimited for Hardware& bionics & robotics, Supernatural Unlimited for mages and enchanted objects and the anything magical. This would allow for specific revisions of different classes, like when the tech becomes obsolete, without redoing the entire book.

BookWyrm wrote:

Hell knight wrote:I would still like to see the nursery , if any one else remembers that one .

Oh yes, I remember it. I want to see this book too. Lots of potential there.

I too remember this book. I thought some of it might have been ported over to the Mutant Underground but I might be wrong about that.

I think some of it did get ported over or re-tasked for Mutant Underground. The Nursery was supposed to expand on it, for the most part.

Warshield73 wrote:

Stone Gargoyle wrote:Gadgets Unlimited to include gizmos not covered by Super-Invention
Hardware Unlimited
Robotics Unlimited to expand on the Robotics category and include how to account for different size frames, whether huge or tiny. Also, Bionics needs to be included as a form of Robotics and they should have some of the same options available.
Monsters Unlimited with ways to create your own monsters, possibly using BIO-E

The only problem I have with creating all of these books plus the idea of taking all the new skill classes from the Rifter for Training unlimited is that you have effectively rewritten the entire core book but it is spread out all over the place and may not work well with the rules in that book.

Now I have always thought that if you ever did a HU 2.0 this is how it should be done. Core book has super powers, psionics, all the training categories and that's it. Then you get Aliens Unlimited for aliens, Tech unlimited for Hardware& bionics & robotics, Supernatural Unlimited for mages and enchanted objects and the anything magical. This would allow for specific revisions of different classes, like when the tech becomes obsolete, without redoing the entire book.

The problem I have with using just what is in the core rulebook for Robotics is that it makes your size options very limited. If you want miniature robots or huge ones, you cannot do it with the existing options. And Bionics is even more limited, which is why I think we should see the categories combined or refined. And the equipment available through the main book is very limited and outdated as well. I am not happy wih the book as written, obviously. Some things I want to do for my games are not even covered in the existing game machanics. Aerial combat and vehicular combat, for example, are barely touched upon. How do you account for speed and distance in a dogfight? Lots of little things that add up to a lot.

So maybe an updated Core Book would be on the list too?

I would keep the HU ed. if this happened. Maybe moosh the N&S char templates into the HU game to give them an update also. (with most of them falling into the special or physical training power cats. to the nay-sayers...does anybody really play pure N&S anymore? Is't it mainly used as a supplement for the other games?)

Thou it might be prudent to publish the HU sourcebooks with the updated & expanded power cats 1st.
Both ways there would be trade-offs. Mostly in the 'will PB finish the update before Rifts gets another update?'

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:So maybe an updated Core Book would be on the list too?

I would keep the HU ed. if this happened. Maybe moosh the N&S char templates into the HU game to give them an update also. (with most of them falling into the special or physical training power cats. to the nay-sayers...does anybody really play pure N&S anymore? Is't it mainly used as a supplement for the other games?)

Thou it might be prudent to publish the HU sourcebooks with the updated & expanded power cats 1st.
Both ways there would be trade-offs. Mostly in the 'will PB finish the update before Rifts gets another update?'

Yeah, an updated core book would be helpful. I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:So maybe an updated Core Book would be on the list too?'

I think we need one, but I've been harping for yeaaaars now on the idea that Psionics and Magic need to be tweaked for Heroes Unlimited and this would be the perfect place to do it. The low regen rate for PPE and ISP works ok in Rifts or in Palladium Fantasy but in a Super Hero game where you have guys blasting plasma at each other all day with no limit having to meditate for 5 HOURS after creating just one Psi-Sword? That just doesn't work well.


Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:So maybe an updated Core Book would be on the list too?'

I think we need one, but I've been harping for yeaaaars now on the idea that Psionics and Magic need to be tweaked for Heroes Unlimited and this would be the perfect place to do it. The low regen rate for PPE and ISP works ok in Rifts or in Palladium Fantasy but in a Super Hero game where you have guys blasting plasma at each other all day with no limit having to meditate for 5 HOURS after creating just one Psi-Sword? That just doesn't work well.


Daniel Stoker

My players don't generally play magic or psionics characters because of the math involved and the limits on it. It's just more fun to play a character that doesn't have to recharge.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:My players don't generally play magic or psionics characters because of the math involved and the limits on it. It's just more fun to playacharacter that doesn't have to recharge.

You could import the "Recharged after a full night's sleep" rule from the BTS1 arcanist class.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Stone Gargoyle wrote:My players don't generally play magic or psionics characters because of the math involved and the limits on it. It's just more fun to play a character that doesn't have to recharge.

You could import the "Recharged after a full night's sleep" rule from the BTS1 arcanist class.

I suppose. Seems like they should make that a universal rule for all magic characters though.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:You could import the "Recharged after a full night's sleep" rule from the BTS1 arcanist class.

I've basically done that in my games where I allow 6-8 hours of meditation to get them their full PPE or ISP back depending on what type of psionic or caster they are as otherwise yeah, it just doesn't work well in most of the games I've played, but I'd like to see some official rules covering that from Palladium.


Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:You could import the "Recharged after a full night's sleep" rule from the BTS1 arcanist class.

I've basically done that in my games where I allow 6-8 hours of meditation to get them their full PPE or ISP back depending on what type of psionic or caster they are as otherwise yeah, it just doesn't work well in most of the games I've played, but I'd like to see some official rules covering that from Palladium.


Daniel Stoker

You could make psi and magic recharge faster but I have always thought that we actually need limits on super powers. It makes no sense for a character to be able to generate massive amounts of energy in the form of fire or even sonic speed and not have to recharge. We see this in comics all the time that heroes can only maintain power levels for short periods of time before needing to rest or even eat.

You as an example, create a character with sonic speed and alter physical structure fire. Think how many fire blasts the character could generate in just a minute to say nothing of five minutes. A basic set of rules limiting how many times a character can use super powers would be a nice addition to a 2.0 version of PB and HU specifically.

I've had a similar thought and have played with the idea of a Stamina stat that would go up with their levels but never got it quite right in my head, let alone down on paper as something usable.


Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:I've had a similar thought and have played with the idea of a Stamina stat that would go up with their levels but never got it quite right in my head, let alone down on paper as something usable.


Daniel Stoker

I worked on something similar when Rifts Conversion Book 1 first came out and a few of my PCs got super powers. I could never make it work either.

Truthfully no matter what you put in place it will always have holes and problems, look at ISP and PPE. Endurance is a hard thing to put into game stats, this includes overheating on weapons and the like not just powers. In the end it might actually be easier to increase ISP / PPE recharge to bring those powers up to the capabilities of of super powers and tech than create endurance stats for everything.

Warshield73 wrote:

Daniel Stoker wrote:I've had a similar thought and have played with the idea of a Stamina stat that would go up with their levels but never got it quite right in my head, let alone down on paper as something usable.


Daniel Stoker

I worked on something similar when Rifts Conversion Book 1 first came out and a few of my PCs got super powers. I could never make it work either.

Truthfully no matter what you put in place it will always have holes and problems, look at ISP and PPE. Endurance is a hard thing to put into game stats, this includes overheating on weapons and the like not just powers. In the end it might actually be easier to increase ISP / PPE recharge to bring those powers up to the capabilities of of super powers and tech than create endurance stats for everything.

Why not treat it like a third stat like PPE and ISP? Call it PSE (Potential Super Energy) and have the use of each ability deplete a bit of this energy each time its used?

Captain_Nibbz wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:

Daniel Stoker wrote:I've had a similar thought and have played with the idea of a Stamina stat that would go up with their levels but never got it quite right in my head, let alone down on paper as something usable.


Daniel Stoker

I worked on something similar when Rifts Conversion Book 1 first came out and a few of my PCs got super powers. I could never make it work either.

Truthfully no matter what you put in place it will always have holes and problems, look at ISP and PPE. Endurance is a hard thing to put into game stats, this includes overheating on weapons and the like not just powers. In the end it might actually be easier to increase ISP / PPE recharge to bring those powers up to the capabilities of of super powers and tech than create endurance stats for everything.

Why not treat it like a third stat like PPE and ISP? Call it PSE (Potential Super Energy) and have the use of each ability deplete a bit of this energy each time its used?

The problem is that it isn't a really universal stat at least not as powers are currently listed. Many super powers don't have a duration. If you were to put in some sort of endurance for SPs then it would almost need to be power specific and many powers that are purely physical would just go according to normal rules.

PPE and ISP don't work in a supers game. The pacing of a session is screwed when you realize the mage and psychic blew all their juice fighting the first encounter, but the supers are still lit up and ready to rock. Should the whole game be done just so the wizard can rest up, and then the party can go after Baron Evil in the morning? Where is the heroic in that? How does "Sorry, I used my Psi-sword, twice. I'm done now." go over when flame-bee the firestinger can launch superior attacks all day long? Why bother with Telekinesis when a super can lift Tons, often at better range, all day long?

The Rifts/Palladium rules are limiting, and should be in such a game. But in HU, those limits are overkill. I know someone is going to claim "the flexibility! The bag of tricks! Mages can learn all the spells!" They can. If the 20th century setting lets them somehow find them, and then... They can do something cool. Once. Usually after a ritual and gathering everyone else's PPE.
That one effect might be really powerful, maybe age one opponent to extremis, if they fail to save. They better fail to save the first time, though, because that spell cost 50PPE, and now you're out of PPE whether they save or not.

We need a Magic/Psi Unlimited book, one with "heroic" rules for spellcasting and psi, a rule set where the Mage and Psychic can do some truly heroic things, a TK could lift a truck, or a mage could teleport the group without a day-long ritual followed by needing to recharge for a literal week.

Sorcery Unlimited, Psionics Unlimited. Just make sure to remember the "unlimited" part.


Or, you could go with a tech book, Borgs, hardware, robots, all under one roof. Maybe even a P.C. that combines super powers with cybernetics or robotics, super-cyborgs could be neat...

I agree major modifications need to be done on psionics and magic to bring them up to speed with the superpowers. Problem then is that the game is less megaversal and more just for HU2. As it is, with the rules as written, you're never going to be Doctor Strange level of power in a game. Won't happen.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Hardware Unlimited won't be published until the tech in that book is at least 15 years out of date.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:I agree major modifications need to be done on psionics ans robotics to bring them up to speed with the superpowers. Problem then is that the game is less megaversal and more just for HU2. As it is, with the rules as written, you're never going to be Doctor Strange level of power in a game. Won't happen.

Heck I'd take Moondark.


Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:

Stone Gargoyle wrote:I agree major modifications need to be done on psionics ans robotics to bring them up to speed with the superpowers. Problem then is that the game is less megaversal and more just for HU2. As it is, with the rules as written, you're never going to be Doctor Strange level of power in a game. Won't happen.

Heck I'd take Moondark.


Daniel Stoker

That was supposed to read "psionics and magic". Not sure why I brought robotics into it.

I figured it was a typo there so not a problem.


Daniel Stoker

So, yeah, Magic Unlimited and Psionics Unlimited get added to the list.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:I agree major modifications need to be done on psionics ans robotics to bring them up to speed with the superpowers. Problem then is that the game is less megaversal and more just for HU2. As it is, with the rules as written, you're never going to be Doctor Strange level of power in a game. Won't happen.

First I agree that the tech for robots is dated but it is on par with the super powers. Most players I;ve had who take this make 2 suits, they almost all do power armor not giant bots, 1 light for basic encounters and 1 heavy. They have guns, lasers, missiles, sensors, and all sorts of abilities. In almost ever convention game I have run the robot pilot is always the best support and one of the heavy hitters. I would love a tech update for robot and hardware just to make them less dated but they are easily on par with the supers as is.

As for psionics and magic I agree that across all settings I would like to see psionics and magic have easier ways to recharge between encounters but a few facts need to be kept in mind.

- Supers get 2 majors or up to 5 minor powers or a combination of the two but 5 powers max with no new powers. Yes if you get continuous mutation your powers will change but not increase in numbers. Yes you get to use your powers constantly but they are really limited.
- The natural psychic STARTS with 10 minor and 3 super psionics. They gain 2 minor per level and 1 super every other level after that. That is a huge variety of powers and there has to be a limit on it's use. You could set up a system where you trade powers for additional ISP but that is another matter.
- A Natural Psychic will have an average ME of 16 so double that for 32 ISP plus 2D4X10 ISP average 50 so base 82 ISP plus 10 per level. That means at 3rd level the average psi has of 100 ISP. With most powers only needing 2 to 10 ISP and you can do a lot. Now if you are looking for a fix maybe reduce the ISP cost of some powers while also reducing duration as most players rarely need greater duration.

This applies even more to magic as they have greater array of spells. I know some people say that the variability doesn't make up for the limits of PPE and ISP, and they may be right, but you do have to have some way of accounting for it.

Daniel Stoker wrote:

Stone Gargoyle wrote:I agree major modifications need to be done on psionics ans robotics to bring them up to speed with the superpowers. Problem then is that the game is less megaversal and more just for HU2. As it is, with the rules as written, you're never going to be Doctor Strange level of power in a game. Won't happen.

Heck I'd take Moondark.


Daniel Stoker

Can't make superman either and even batman is tough and I have yet to see a robotics character that rolls high enough to have 45 combat suits.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:So, yeah, Magic Unlimited and Psionics Unlimited get added to the list.

Again if you just make a book for each class might as well make HU 3rd Edition.

Warshield73 wrote:Again if you just make a book for each class might as well make HU 3rd Edition.

Um, they already kind of do that. You have the Super Soldier rewrite in PU2, Aliens Unlimited for the Alien power category, Armageddon Unlimited for the Mystically Bestowed, ATB for mutant animals, and Mutant Underground for the mutants. Besides, I say why not update the books with current tech and do a third edition. 2nd Edition is over 20 years old. I would rather they do that than have to constantly homebrew my own stuff just to get a game that works.

And the Robotics thing was a typo. I meant magic.

As far as psionics being limited, the game says Unlimited right on the cover, so somebody lied.

Warshield73 wrote:Can't make superman either and even batman is tough and I have yet to see a robotics character that rolls high enough to have 45 combat suits.

Oh I know that trust me, I just wish they handled both categories better, which is why I changed things in my games but still would like something more official.


Daniel Stoker

The Beast wrote:I said it before and I'll say it again. Hardware Unlimited won't be published until the tech in that book is at least 15 years out of date.

I missed this earlier but sadly I think you might be right.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:Again if you just make a book for each class might as well make HU 3rd Edition.

Um, they already kind of do that. You have the Super Soldier rewrite in PU2, Aliens Unlimited for the Alien power category, Armageddon Unlimited for the Mystically Bestowed, ATB for mutant animals, and Mutant Underground for the mutants. Besides, I say why not update the books with current tech and do a third edition. 2nd Edition is over 20 years old. I would rather they do that than have to constantly homebrew my own stuff just to get a game that works.

This is why I want to stop it here. The game is already a massive mess and that is assuming you don't use anything from the Rifters which I do.

Now to be clear most alien PCs are still rolled up from the core book, AU gives specific races that you could play instead of creating an individual species. Those races are also better suited to a space based campaign in AU not necessarily an Earth based game. ATB, the PU books and Mutant underground all supplement those power categories but they don't replace them outright.

For the record, and I think I might have posted this earlier, but if I was designing HU 3e I would:
- Core book with rules and all the basics but just mutants, Experiments, Physical training, the special training and probably a lot of the things added in the powers unlimited and mutant underground books.
- Tech Unlimited adds hardware, bionics, Robotics
- Supernatural Unlimited adds all the magic, psi, maybe even true demigods and godlings
- Aliens Unlimited well aliens

The original book tries to do too much and it has aged poorly. I would also love to see a more graded power level where each type could go from street level to mega-hero but that is a different conversation.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:And the Robotics thing was a typo. I meant magic.

Yeah I'm sorry I started my reply before you posted that correction and didn't think about it after I read your clarification. Sorry, but I think what I said still stands.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:As far as psionics being limited, the game says Unlimited right on the cover, so somebody lied.

I'm fairly certain it meant an unlimited types of heroes not number or uses of powers. But if I'm wrong my next character is going to look at the super power list and say "OK".

Daniel Stoker wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:Can't make superman either and even batman is tough and I have yet to see a robotics character that rolls high enough to have 45 combat suits.

Oh I know that trust me, I just wish they handled both categories better, which is why I changed things in my games but still would like something more official.


Daniel Stoker

I use a lot from the Rifter and If I was ever running a full HU campaign instead of just convection games I would rework the skill system as well.

As I said about I would love it if each power category had 3 to 5 power ranks and you would set the level for your campaign. If your game is rank 1 then your PC gets small amount of cash to make a basic exoskeleton or you can make a simple AI. Play rank 5 and your Tony Stark or Vision.

Sort of a these are street level (perfect for the City of Cascade say), next is major, then mega heroes. Maybe add in a cosmic level for those people who really want the power fantasy or to go against demon lords or the night lords.

Warshield73 wrote:

Stone Gargoyle wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:Again if you just make a book for each class might as well make HU 3rd Edition.

Um, they already kind of do that. You have the Super Soldier rewrite in PU2, Aliens Unlimited for the Alien power category, Armageddon Unlimited for the Mystically Bestowed, ATB for mutant animals, and Mutant Underground for the mutants. Besides, I say why not update the books with current tech and do a third edition. 2nd Edition is over 20 years old. I would rather they do that than have to constantly homebrew my own stuff just to get a game that works.

This is why I want to stop it here. The game is already a massive mess and that is assuming you don't use anything from the Rifters which I do.

Now to be clear most alien PCs are still rolled up from the core book, AU gives specific races that you could play instead of creating an individual species. Those races are also better suited to a space based campaign in AU not necessarily an Earth based game. ATB, the PU books and Mutant underground all supplement those power categories but they don't replace them outright.

For the record, and I think I might have posted this earlier, but if I was designing HU 3e I would:
- Core book with rules and all the basics but just mutants, Experiments, Physical training, the special training and probably a lot of the things added in the powers unlimited and mutant underground books.
- Tech Unlimited adds hardware, bionics, Robotics
- Supernatural Unlimited adds all the magic, psi, maybe even true demigods and godlings
- Aliens Unlimited well aliens

The original book tries to do too much and it has aged poorly. I would also love to see a more graded power level where each type could go from street level to mega-hero but that is a different conversation.

Much of the stuff in the supplements is good for ideas, not necessarily using outright as written. Because as you say, it is a mess. I prefer to create my own species using Aliens Unlimited when I use it, as I don't care for their selection of aliens. I use ATB to create a wider variety of animal mutants, as the HU2 core book barely gives you any options for mutant animals. I don't use the power categories in Armageddon Unlimited because they seem specifically written for a certain type of campaign.
I think your ideas on how they should update the books is similar to my thinking. My main beef with Robotics is they always suggest you can create robots larger than 22 feet tall but don't give you options for frames for robots that big. Nor can you create doll sized robots with the rules as written. They really need a robotics sourcebook. Magic needs its own book, similar to the Rifts Book of Magic but specifically written for HU2 (or 3). They could use the existing AU books, those are fine as written, but they really do need more in the way of equipment and gadgets outside of the Super-Invention category.

What about a land & sea vehicle SDC game sourcebook? Ranging from travoise to modern oil tankers and cruisers. Should it also include aircraft?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What about a land & sea vehicle SDC game sourcebook? Ranging from travoise to modern oil tankers and cruisers. Should it also include aircraft?

More vehicle stats are needed. Good call.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What about a land & sea vehicle SDC game sourcebook? Ranging from travoise to modern oil tankers and cruisers. Should it also include aircraft?

More vehicle stats are needed. Good call.

I kind of disagree. Some game stats on basic interiors of large vehicles and buildings like SDC and AR of an average interior and exterior but modern vehicle stats can all be gotten from the internet and much like any stats for the tech the books would become hopelessly out of date after just a few years.

A better answer would be to put SDC, AR, and basic game stats for common vehicles on the website for use with all modern games and then you can just link to wikipedia for the basic numbers like speed, crew, dimensions, etc.

Weapons are the same. In each book you just put some basic rules and damage by caliber with a few examples of common weapons and then people can just use the publicly available stats to bring in weapons they like.

The modern games just have too much problem with the tech becoming too out of date

Warshield73 wrote:

Stone Gargoyle wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What about a land & sea vehicle SDC game sourcebook? Ranging from travoise to modern oil tankers and cruisers. Should it also include aircraft?

More vehicle stats are needed. Good call.

I kind of disagree. Some game stats on basic interiors of large vehicles and buildings like SDC and AR of an average interior and exterior but modern vehicle stats can all be gotten from the internet and much like any stats for the tech the books would become hopelessly out of date after just a few years.

A better answer would be to put SDC, AR, and basic game stats for common vehicles on the website for use with all modern games and then you can just link to wikipedia for the basic numbers like speed, crew, dimensions, etc.

Weapons are the same. In each book you just put some basic rules and damage by caliber with a few examples of common weapons and then people can just use the publicly available stats to bring in weapons they like.

The modern games just have too much problem with the tech becoming too out of date

Some people don't want to have to have to rely on the internet. The game is incomplete. Relying n stats from outside sources is that homebrew thing I mentioned earlier. I should not have to do that much work just to play a game.

Also if there are more vehicles stat'ed out there Hardware chars will have more to play with when modifying.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:

Stone Gargoyle wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What about a land & sea vehicle SDC game sourcebook? Ranging from travoise to modern oil tankers and cruisers. Should it also include aircraft?

More vehicle stats are needed. Good call.

I kind of disagree. Some game stats on basic interiors of large vehicles and buildings like SDC and AR of an average interior and exterior but modern vehicle stats can all be gotten from the internet and much like any stats for the tech the books would become hopelessly out of date after just a few years.

A better answer would be to put SDC, AR, and basic game stats for common vehicles on the website for use with all modern games and then you can just link to wikipedia for the basic numbers like speed, crew, dimensions, etc.

Weapons are the same. In each book you just put some basic rules and damage by caliber with a few examples of common weapons and then people can just use the publicly available stats to bring in weapons they like.

The modern games just have too much problem with the tech becoming too out of date

Some people don't want to have to have to rely on the internet. The game is incomplete. Relying n stats from outside sources is that homebrew thing I mentioned earlier. I should not have to do that much work just to play a game.

Is that "some" enough people to effect the sales of a book though? Pages not used for stats in a book that will be out of date long before the book can be revised and replaced can be used for other materials or reduce the price point on the book as a whole.

Now this did not come up here but one of the things I really want is for all the modern games (HU, BTS, DR, Nightbane) be made generic enough that they can be used in any time period with only minor modifications. Some of the best games I have played and seen recently for Nightbane, HU but especially BTS have been set in other eras (particularly WWI and WWII, but also Civil War) so if there era books equipment could go in there.

Truthfully if people feel the need to have equipment in books the best thing would be to have them in their own small book that can be updated easily.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Also if there are more vehicles stat'ed out there Hardware chars will have more to play with when modifying.

If there are basic game stats (SDC, AR, and then vehicle movement and combat rules) they can do this more easily from the internet. Before Rifts Mercs and CS war campaign came out I wanted to create a lot of jet fighters for all the powers. Took forever. Last year I wanted to get stats for modern combat helicopters to use against players in a HU game, took 20 minutes complete with pictures.

What was tough was I had HU players on an old beached cargo ship and while I found a great layout to use for the game I had to sort of invent the rules for how much SDC and AR each area had. Those basic SDC and AR idea for specific types of things would help a lot as no matter what you put in a book it will NEVER cover everything.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:Some people don't want to have to have to rely on the internet. The game is incomplete. Relying n stats from outside sources is that homebrew thing I mentioned earlier. I should not have to do that much work just to play a game.

I agree with SG, that there needs to be canon standards for stat'ed out vehicles. Moreover, the ones listed in the HU2 core book are a bit dated being for vehicles from the 60's and not reflective of the current technology. I would also purpose that the vehicle modifications text (esspecily the aircraft section) needs to be updated to: reflect the real world and to give the players more modification options.

All I know is that I'd like to see variations of the rules for building starships (found in AUGG) for building/modding vehicles and robots, specifically the rules for determining how much space one has to work with and how much of that something takes up. I know some of this would fall under GM's discretion, but having something in writing would help to curb some of those arguments.

I know. I'm trying to map a robotics facility to use in an upcoming campaign and I have no idea how big I should make the hangars and development rooms.

I would like to see some of the power category's expanded . more background more options maybe i am just over thinking it .

Hell knight wrote:I would like to see some of the power category's expanded . more background more options maybe i am just over thinking it .

No I don't think you are. More variety is great and I prefer a game where you get a new variation on an old character type over a new OCC ever single book. The think is though the only thing we don't have canon expansions for is really the Training characters. We have great stuff from the Rifter and that is what I use but everything else already has a lot of variety and when you add in that any of them can be a Mega Hero that gives even more.

I would be open to more varieties but I think it is mainly a variety of power levels.

Hell knight wrote:I would like to see some of the power category's expanded . more background more options maybe i am just over thinking it .

The last few Rifters have had articles that expanded most of the mundane power cats (mundane: not magic, not psi, not mutant.)

I think Hardware Unlimited,can cover Gadget,Robotic,and Vechicles.

Powers Unlimited 4 can have Magic and Psionic powers in it.

A New City/adventures book.

I like to see Aliens Unlimited 2,adding New Aliens too.

gaby wrote:I think Hardware Unlimited,can cover Gadget,Robotic,and Vehicles.

No, they each deserve their own book. Otherwise you get maybe ten pages about each and that's it. I want expanded categories, not the half job they did in the core book.