What do you want in the Next Rifts:Dimension books?

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:14 am

What do you want in the Next Rifts:Dimension books?

Do you think Phase world/3 Galaxies are over?

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:06 pm

What do -you- want in the next Rifts:Dimension books, gaby?

Warshield73 · Unread post by **Warshield73** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:07 pm

I love the Three Galaxies but truthfully I don't want anymore books until someone steps in to kind of guide the direction of the entire thing. It is just such a mess IMHO.

What I would love is another Megaverse Builder sort of book to detail the basics on other dimensions that are mentioned but not described.

Examples include: Elemental Plains, Plain of Mist, Scorched Lands, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

Warshield73 · Unread post by **Warshield73** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:17 pm

Warshield73 wrote:I love the Three Galaxies but truthfully I don't want anymore books until someone steps in to kind of guide the direction of the entire thing. It is just such a mess IMHO.

I guess I should have said that for Three Galaxies is the OCCs really need a MAJOR update. As they currently are they are out of date and boring compared to anything that came out after RUE.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:13 pm

Can we finally get DB9 UWW written?

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:33 pm

Well I like to see books on UWW,3 Galaxies 2 and Civillian ships.

Nuristas · Unread post by **Nuristas** » Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:40 pm

Warshield73 wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:I love the Three Galaxies but truthfully I don't want anymore books until someone steps in to kind of guide the direction of the entire thing. It is just such a mess IMHO.

I guess I should have said that for Three Galaxies is the OCCs really need a MAJOR update. As they currently are they are out of date and boring compared to anything that came out after RUE.

Why do you say that?

Warshield73 · Unread post by **Warshield73** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:22 am

I love the PW and the 3G. I have probably played and run it more than Rifts itself but I Dimension books should be more than Phase World. One thing I loved about Hades and Dyval was it gave me new places for the Rifts to go and that is what Dimension Books should be. The Megaverse Builder was great for this too that's why I said we need another one but it would be great to start detailing dimensions we already know about but which lack any detail.

How about a Worlds of the Spugorth book. Some could be in the Three Galaxies but others could be in other dimensions. Another book on dimensions that link to gatelands on Phase World would be cool too.

jaymz wrote:Can we finally get DB9 UWW written?

gaby wrote:Well I like to see books on UWW,3 Galaxies 2 and Civillian ships.

I would like all of these too but, and maybe it's just me, but when I am trying to create scenarios and PCs for convention games it's just such a mess. The ships from the original 4 books (well 3 Anvil Galaxy book has no ships) are far weaker than anything in Dimensional Outbreak and even those aren't terribly compatible with given that the older ships all just have Main Body while the new are, and I think this is better, breaks the ships into 3rds.

If someone does write a book of new ships it would be great if they, maybe just in a section of notes and changes, brought all the ships into a similar stat block. You also need to define the technology. I have had multiple discussions on these boards dealing with the contra-gravity, sensors, and stealth systems among other things but there is no common ground or canon answers for most of this.

If what people want are ships then we need a book that first lays out all the tech, then brings the old ships into line, and then adds in you new warships or civilian ships or what I often refer to as Hero Ships like corvettes and smaller but well armed ships as well as small combat shuttles (think shuttles like we see in Halo, Mass Effect, or Stargate Universe).

It would also be great to get some noncombat gear. Survival gear, repair equipment, optics (we have some good hand sensors but a few more is helpful), and some hover vehicles and exploration vehicles.

Nuristas wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:I love the Three Galaxies but truthfully I don't want anymore books until someone steps in to kind of guide the direction of the entire thing. It is just such a mess IMHO.

I guess I should have said that for Three Galaxies is the OCCs really need a MAJOR update. As they currently are they are out of date and boring compared to anything that came out after RUE.

Why do you say that?

The OCCs are for lack of a better word boring. When I run Phase World convention games the most common negative comment I get are on the OCCs, especially those that also played regular Rifts and 2e Robotech. They have no special abilities, no unique skills, they are boring. There are a few OCC's that are cool to play like the Wolfen Quatoria, Warlock Marine Mage, and of course the CAF Fleet Officer but really only due to it's extra attack and an unbelievable number and variety of skills not to any real personality.

Compare the Spacer to the operator in RUE and you will see that even an OCC that is 15 years old is way more interesting and more fun to play than it's PW counterpart.

It doesn't stop there. Take the Galactic Tracer or Runner or Space Pirate and compare them to anything in the Rifts Blackmarket. Compare the CAF Trooper, TGE Legionnaire or even the UWW Marine (yes the PA is cool but EVERY PC and I mean all of them that has ever run a UWW Marine has asked to switch to the Marine mage within a few games) with the new CS, new Triax or any of the Robotech OCC's and you see how just dull and lifeless they are.

The OCC's, especially in the first 2 books, just need an update. A reason to take one OCC over another. Some special OCC skills or abilities that set them apart and draw a player in.

Rogerd · Unread post by **Rogerd** » Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:19 am

Warshield73 wrote:I love the Three Galaxies but truthfully I don't want anymore books until someone steps in to kind of guide the direction of the entire thing. It is just such a mess IMHO.

What I would love is another Megaverse Builder sort of book to detail the basics on other dimensions that are mentioned but not described.

Examples include: Elemental Plains, Plain of Mist, Scorched Lands, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

I think the multiverse just needs some form of organisation. A good example is what we see in M&M with universes, interstitial dimensions, magical dimensions etc. And any demi-planes, that would likely help a lot.

Other examples of this codification is also DnD, PF and quite a few others have also done the same.

Furoan · Unread post by **Furoan** » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:40 am

A WWW book would be great, as would be a bok on Civilian Ships to play around with. A corkscrew galaxy book would be very nice, though I would prefer it to be modelled after the Anvil Galaxy book more than the Thundercloud Book.

Some indication, even if it is only a few pages, on how various Super Beings or greater creatures of magic fit in. Are there Dragons running corporations Shadowrun style, how are the gods dealing with the kids waging war in their vacation universe?

A book on the Splugoth Kingdom's would be interesting.

A Black Market book dealing with Pirate Havens and secret Runner stops would be pretty cool.

Borast · Unread post by **Borast** » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:48 pm

jaymz wrote:Can we finally get DB9 UWW written?

Or, even more flexible, a book covering all 4 of the majors, including the UWW...however, this one would have to be a fairly large book...maybe to the order of size of the core book.

Thom001 · Unread post by **Thom001** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:51 am

I think a world of plant people being enslaved and eaten by giant Pig looking creatures would be different. And the world is 90% land......

drewkitty ~..~ · Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:00 pm

The magic book for BTS2.

Warshield73 · Unread post by **Warshield73** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:25 pm

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The magic book for BTS2.

Any book for BTS

Bladedancer13 · Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:32 pm

Altess Armoria

ProphetZarquon · Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:20 pm

1) Other "dimensions" besides the 3G. Live up to the name! As Warshield73 said, let's get some more stats, locales, & denizens, for the Elemental Plains, Plain of Mist, Scorched Lands, etc etc. Rifts is still short on dimensions. A whole book of other realms could be done in the style of the Three Galaxies book, with just a brief description, stat mechanics, & a hook or two, given, per realm.
2) Splugorth worlds & pocket realms. Especially other Splugorth who might be rivals (or tenuous allies) of Splynncryth. Surely there are some wacky Splugorth-controlled realms! Chaos-themed stuff that isn't demonic themed could be a nice change of pace?
3) More background on high power-level entities, both near the galactic cores, & from intruding outside the 3G. As Furoan said, are there any Dragons & gods in prominent positions, around the 3G? Let's see some NPC stats for a draconic CEO, & a politician demigod.
4) Specs for the Altess Armoria, & a lot more background on the Altess. OCCs\RCCs to suit.
5) Descriptions & hooks for a bunch of Golgan estates in various stages of decay. These amphibians could make a great "crumbling old empire of private estates, nostalgic for their glory days", but there's almost no stat-based info for them.
6) A map showing the relative locations of the planetary systems listed in the Three Galaxies book, & some navigational hazards which might make extensive detours safer than plotting a direct course. A lot of people will prefer to homebrew interstellar travel routes & distances on their own, but as someone who's been running a travel-prominent 3G campaign for over ten years now, a pregenerated map to maintain consistent travel times would have saved me a lot of logging, math, & homebrew.

Also, it would be great to have an improved explanation of the rules mechanic for perception checks & Read Sensors skill rolls (& whether that Skill usage requires spending an Attack), versus stealth technology, hiding, & cover. I've read a lot of these books front to back & back again, & the Stealth VS Perception rules still seem entirely insufficient to produce the same ruling at more than one GM's table.

Borast · Unread post by **Borast** » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:39 pm

ProphetZarquon wrote:2) Splugorth worlds & pocket realms. Especially other Splugorth who might be rivals (or tenuous allies) of Splynncryth. Surely there are some wacky Splugorth-controlled realms!

You want wacky?
I have a pocket dimension with a Scrupulous or Principled (can't remember off the top of my head) Spluggie, and all of the "slave races" are full citizens, electing representatives to a democratic government that acts as an Advisory Council that actually has power!

I created it back in the Old Century.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:21 pm

Alternate realities.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:38 pm

Borast wrote:You want wacky?
I have a pocket dimension with a Scrupulous or Principled (can't remember off the top of my head) Spluggie, and all of the "slave races" are full citizens, electing representatives to a democratic government that acts as an Advisory Council that actually has power!
.

Had/have a Good Splugorth thread on these forums that has the Splugorth as the angelic alien intelligence altruists running a humanitarian relief organization, with the Minions as EMTs/HMO advisors/rescue workers....The Dimensional Market's basically a giant permanent health expo/medical conference.
So, not so wacky. :wink:

ITWastrel · Unread post by **ITWastrel** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:56 am

A Multi-setting dimension book, "Dimensions of the Multiverse." Contains multiple dimension descriptions. Each gets key lore and civilizations, a couple adventure hooks ,and an OCC or RCC, some unique tech, or a few spells. Each dimension covers between 5 and 20 pages. Throw in a "101 alternate dimensions" quick-roll table, one paragraph for each entry, and you got a book.

Anybody wanna write that up real quick?

Warshield73 · Unread post by **Warshield73** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:09 am

ITWastrel wrote:A Multi-setting dimension book, "Dimensions of the Multiverse." Contains multiple dimension descriptions. Each gets key lore and civilizations, a couple adventure hooks ,and an OCC or RCC, some unique tech, or a few spells. Each dimension covers between 5 and 20 pages. Throw in a "101 alternate dimensions" quick-roll table, one paragraph for each entry, and you got a book.

Anybody wanna write that up real quick?

I have been working on Scorched lands and the Elemental plains for over 6 months and am no where so not it.

drewkitty ~..~ · Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:16 am

Zer0 Kay wrote:Alternate realities.

The easy way to to that is to port your chars over to the HU: Milkyway Galaxy. And that have a whole new galaxy to get into trouble famous in. Maybe even pop into earth for a story arc or two.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:34 pm

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:Alternate realities.

The easy way to to that is to port your chars over to the HU: Milkyway Galaxy. And that have a whole new galaxy to get into trouble famous in. Maybe even pop into earth for a story arc or two.

My characters never get into trouble... trouble gets onto them.

Yeah... I just wish that CE was like they originally planned it. Parallel Rifts where the nuke exchanged happened a minute after midnight.

drewkitty ~..~ · Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:12 pm

Zer0 Kay wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:Alternate realities.

The easy way to to that is to port your chars over to the HU: Milkyway Galaxy. And that have a whole new galaxy to get into trouble famous in. Maybe even pop into earth for a story arc or two.

My characters never get into trouble... trouble gets onto them.

Yeah... I just wish that CE was like they originally planned it. Parallel Rifts where the nuke exchanged happened a minute after midnight.

*nods* That disappointed me also.

Warshield73 · Unread post by **Warshield73** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:58 pm

Zer0 Kay wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:Alternate realities.

The easy way to to that is to port your chars over to the HU: Milkyway Galaxy. And that have a whole new galaxy to get into trouble famous in. Maybe even pop into earth for a story arc or two.

My characters never get into trouble... trouble gets onto them.

Yeah... I just wish that CE was like they originally planned it. Parallel Rifts where the nuke exchanged happened a minute after midnight.

I am the opposite, while I don't really like CE that much (the setting is cool but I hate NEMA) I was not really that interested in an alternative Rifts Earth setting. I can, and already had, done that on my own. A list with brief descriptions of ideas for alternative settings for each of the existing settings would be cool but don't need an entire book for it.

Borast · Unread post by **Borast** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:11 am

taalismn wrote:
Borast wrote:You want wacky?
I have a pocket dimension with a Scrupulous or Principled (can't remember off the top of my head) Spluggie, and all of the "slave races" are full citizens, electing representatives to a democratic government that acts as an Advisory Council that actually has power!
.

Had/have a Good Splugorth thread on these forums that has the Splugorth as the angelic alien intelligence altruists running a humanitarian relief organization, with the Minions as EMTs/HMO advisors/rescue workers....The Dimensional Market's basically a giant permanent health expo/medical conference.
So, not so wacky.

Wacky, yes, 'cause it is in the canon multiverse.
Can't remember *why* he was Good though... (Exposure to a certain energy field maybe?)

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:15 pm

Warshield73 wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:Alternate realities.

The easy way to to that is to port your chars over to the HU: Milkyway Galaxy. And that have a whole new galaxy to get into trouble famous in. Maybe even pop into earth for a story arc or two.

My characters never get into trouble... trouble gets onto them.

Yeah... I just wish that CE was like they originally planned it. Parallel Rifts where the nuke exchanged happened a minute after midnight.

I am the opposite, while I don't really like CE that much (the setting is cool but I hate NEMA) I was not really that interested in an alternative Rifts Earth setting. I can, and already had, done that on my own. A list with brief descriptions of ideas for alternative settings for each of the existing settings would be cool but don't need an entire book for it.

The way I see it is that we all have made parallel Rifts and I think that PB should start doing another periodical like the Rifter except they are dimension books released annually and have a selection of alternate Rift realities. As large as a full dimension book it could have a lot of peoples entries as a list with brief descriptions or less entries with more details or a combination of the two.

Rifts: Chaos Almanac 20xx
Rifts: Dimensional Almanac 20xx
Rifts: Timey Wimey Wibbly Wobbly Stuff 20XX
Rifts: TWWWST (Twist) 20XX

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:58 pm

gaby wrote:What do you want in the Next Rifts:Dimension books?

Do you think Phase world/3 Galaxies are over?

While I can agree with a lot of the suggestions presented. How about a "D-Bee Homeworld" series of books that can be plugged in to Rifts (as a destination via Rift) or Phaseworld or a standalone or other megaversal dimension (licensed or palladium original). We know there are D-Bees that have homeworlds, it might be nice to see some of species get fleshed out (and some worlds are already given some representation beyond one example). Rifts has lots of D-Bees that could be more fleshed out so they seem less 2D.

Warshield73 · Unread post by **Warshield73** » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:08 pm

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:Alternate realities.

The easy way to to that is to port your chars over to the HU: Milkyway Galaxy. And that have a whole new galaxy to get into trouble famous in. Maybe even pop into earth for a story arc or two.

My characters never get into trouble... trouble gets onto them.

Yeah... I just wish that CE was like they originally planned it. Parallel Rifts where the nuke exchanged happened a minute after midnight.

I am the opposite, while I don't really like CE that much (the setting is cool but I hate NEMA) I was not really that interested in an alternative Rifts Earth setting. I can, and already had, done that on my own. A list with brief descriptions of ideas for alternative settings for each of the existing settings would be cool but don't need an entire book for it.

The way I see it is that we all have made parallel Rifts and I think that PB should start doing another periodical like the Rifter except they are dimension books released annually and have a selection of alternate Rift realities. As large as a full dimension book it could have a lot of peoples entries as a list with brief descriptions or less entries with more details or a combination of the two.

Rifts: Chaos Almanac 20xx
Rifts: Dimensional Almanac 20xx
Rifts: Timey Wimey Wibbly Wobbly Stuff 20XX
Rifts: TWWWST (Twist) 20XX

What I have always wanted was for PB to create a series of fan produced digital products, just put them on Drivethru. The creator can just write up a setting book, a power armor what ever just place it on there for others that way the creator can add to or edit it for people to use. It can also be upgraded with artwork and editing if it proves popular. With this

ShadowLogan wrote:
gaby wrote:What do you want in the Next Rifts:Dimension books?

Do you think Phase world/3 Galaxies are over?

While I can agree with a lot of the suggestions presented. How about a "D-Bee Homeworld" series of books that can be plugged in to Rifts (as a destination via Rift) or Phaseworld or a standalone or other megaversal dimension (licensed or palladium original). We know there are D-Bees that have homeworlds, it might be nice to see some of species get fleshed out (and some worlds are already given some representation beyond one example). Rifts has lots of D-Bees that could be more fleshed out so they seem less 2D.

Like I said originally I would love a few books that would flesh out places that have already been mentioned but never detailed, add places like Ugakwa home world would be great.

It would also be great if some of the home worlds in the Three Galaxies were described.

Sambot · Unread post by **Sambot** » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:05 pm

I wouldn't mind if CAF was revised and updated upon the way, the way the CS and NGR militaries have been updated.

I wouldn't mind a book of OCCs with conversion notes for various militaries or independent operatives. It wouldn't be so much a Dimension Book but more a Megaversebook since some OCCs/MOSs and skills could be used on Rifts Earth as well.

Some OCCs or MOSs could still be nation specific but others are more general. Every power has them but the details are different. Besides equipment there could different skill percentages and/or bonuses or available MOSs and skills to reflect the quality or focus of their training. I would include some OCCs and MOSs from Robotech. They wouldn't need much to fit in well. I'd also include OCCs/MOSs and skills from other books as well. Every fleet is going to have Fleet Crewman OCC with the Damage Control MOS. Ground forces, and wet navies too. Armies with tanks would have a Tanker OCC. They're just not as good as the Sovieteski's.

In regards to Robotech, I think revising Veritech Pilot to Variable Robot Pilot would be okay as there are variable Robots in Rifts. (I do wonder who owns the Veritech Car from Robotech Strike Force. It'd be great as a Triax product.)

I also, as it's been mentioned before, a D-Bee book for the Three Galaxies. Something along the lines of Aliens Unlimited only for the Three Galaxies. Some info about the race, their world and examples of their technology. I would expand on the types of aliens beyond biped though. Like Centaurs and Mermaids and Angels.

As a companion/expansion book I'd have a book about the technologies of the Three Galaxies. it'd cover every kind of technology from magic to stone to steam all the way to super science Dimension/Time Drives. I think some things from Transdimensional Turtles could be moved into this. I would also expand on skill conversions based on technology. I'd love an entire skill book really but at least have conversions better explained if not revise some completely. I know there's skill penalties but they're not quite there.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:17 pm

Well since we're going on a wish list. How about a military class... well two of them. Officer and Enlisted so that an Butter bar wasn't higher level than say a Tech Sergeant. Also have promotion not strictly linked to level gain. Then have MOSs for each as the two usually don't share the same. I've been trying to work on a system where there is a career path. What your character did prior to joining, officer or enlisted, then MOS/AFSC/Rate.

Fenris2020 · Unread post by **Fenris2020** » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:33 pm

Fewer sentence fragments and less repetition.

Another Wormwood book.

Warshield73 · Unread post by **Warshield73** » Sun May 09, 2021 2:22 am

Sambot wrote:I wouldn't mind if CAF was revised and updated upon the way, the way the CS and NGR militaries have been updated.

I wouldn't mind a book of OCCs with conversion notes for various militaries or independent operatives. It wouldn't be so much a Dimension Book but more a Megaversebook since some OCCs/MOSs and skills could be used on Rifts Earth as well.

Some OCCs or MOSs could still be nation specific but others are more general. Every power has them but the details are different. Besides equipment there could different skill percentages and/or bonuses or available MOSs and skills to reflect the quality or focus of their training. I would include some OCCs and MOSs from Robotech. They wouldn't need much to fit in well. I'd also include OCCs/MOSs and skills from other books as well. Every fleet is going to have Fleet Crewman OCC with the Damage Control MOS. Ground forces, and wet navies too. Armies with tanks would have a Tanker OCC. They're just not as good as the Sovieteski's.

All the OCC's need to be redone as they are boring AF but I would love to see the person who redoes these try bring some diversity of background to the system. I have tried to rewrite them with this approach

1 - Background or Common Skills: This is a small package of skills that includes native language and a few others. It caries greatly based on background so a wealthy person from the TGE would have a different set than someone from Level 1 of center and both would be different than someone from a CCW frontier colony.

2- OCC: as normal this is your main skill package and should include a few special skill much like you see for OCCs in the Black market book to give them a hook and I would really reduce the number of OCC's and allow for specialization through MOS packages

3- MOS or simply occupational specialty. The example I use here is the Spacer OCC, you can have just one OCC but it has a pirate package and a runner package. Some OCCs could even have a system that allows for the selection of 2 packages like we see in the Robotech UEEF Marine book.

4- Related and secondary would be as usual but limits on related would come as much from MOS as from OCC.

I have been working on this for a while for my own games but not gotten very far.

Sambot wrote:In regards to Robotech, I think revising Veritech Pilot to Variable Robot Pilot would be okay as there are variable Robots in Rifts. (I do wonder who owns the Veritech Car from Robotech Strike Force. It'd be great as a Triax product.)

PB no longer has a license for Robotech and while they could get away with using some of the stuff they created themselves for other lines I think they avoid transforming vehicles like the plague, although there is a submarine that transforms into a robot in the NGR book.

Sambot wrote:I also, as it's been mentioned before, a D-Bee book for the Three Galaxies. Something along the lines of Aliens Unlimited only for the Three Galaxies. Some info about the race, their world and examples of their technology. I would expand on the types of aliens beyond biped though. Like Centaurs and Mermaids and Angels.

I love the idea but would like to avoid the Aliens Unlimited style book. From now on if we get a race we should also get
- a complete description of there home system
- some cultural information
- some history
- and yes some unique technology or magic.

A big book of races that turn around and use the same armor, weapons, and magic as the humans is just not that interesting.

I would love to see some non-bipedal races but you have to keep in mind this is a game. If the race can not use power armor, fly a space fighter, or walk around a standard space ship no player is going to want to use them and if that is the case why bother. Zebuloids are great examples of a race players like that s non-humanoid because they have a hook.

Sambot wrote:As a companion/expansion book I'd have a book about the technologies of the Three Galaxies. it'd cover every kind of technology from magic to stone to steam all the way to super science Dimension/Time Drives. I think some things from Transdimensional Turtles could be moved into this. I would also expand on skill conversions based on technology. I'd love an entire skill book really but at least have conversions better explained if not revise some completely. I know there's skill penalties but they're not quite there.

I would say the technology of the Three Galaxies needs an overhaul but since it has never really been explained calling it an overhaul would be too generous. If someone wanted to do this it would be best, IMO, to start from scratch. Create the technology and then modify existing ships and weapons to fit the new system. The ships are a mess and trying to fit them together with new stuff is really tough.

Rogerd · Unread post by **Rogerd** » Sun May 16, 2021 6:07 am

It needs an overhaul to be honest.

In all the settings, the players are Heroes, a cut above the rest and the changes need to reflect this.

Skills need to be similar to Savage Worlds. Common skiils, and Programs. These cover all skills under the umbrella, but there beeds to an Expertise (or Specialisation) skill. So a player could have 60% in Computers, but 80% in hacking.

OCC's need cutting down, to the useful ones. Again a SW approach is best. Such that a player could multiclass if needed.

Powers need to be reflect whether standard play or four colour heroes too. We do not need a gazillion types. Keep it simple. Chargen should be quick and easy to grasp. If I take an hour to create a character that gets dead in ten minutes, immersion and fun factor go bye-bye.

Lastly levels need to go. PB cannot keep pace with DnD or PF. While PB nay have been born of a vision based on old AD& D, those times are long gone. Evolve or Die really.

Sambot · Unread post by **Sambot** » Fri May 21, 2021 5:04 am

Warshield73 wrote:All the OCC's need to be redone as they are boring AF but I would love to see the person who redoes these try bring some diversity of background to the system. I have tried to rewrite them with this approach

1 - Background or Common Skills: This is a small package of skills that includes native language and a few others. It caries greatly based on background so a wealthy person from the TGE would have a different set than someone from Level 1 of center and both would be different than someone from a CCW frontier colony.

2- OCC: as normal this is your main skill package and should include a few special skill much like you see for OCCs in the Black market book to give them a hook and I would really reduce the number of OCC's and allow for specialization through MOS packages

3- MOS or simply occupational specialty. The example I use here is the Spacer OCC, you can have just one OCC but it has a pirate package and a runner package. Some OCCs could even have a system that allows for the selection of 2 packages like we see in the Robotech UEEF Marine book.

4- Related and secondary would be as usual but limits on related would come as much from MOS as from OCC.

I have been working on this for a while for my own games but not gotten very far.

I don't know about boring, More like generic with nothing to set them apart from others.

1+4) Complete agreement.
2+3) Mostly agree, I am okay with there being multiple types of the same OCC as they reflect differences in training. For example, I think there should be a Coalition Tanker OCC. However, I do not think they should have the same bonuses as the Sovietski Tanker OCC because of a difference in training. I can also see a CS version of the Sovietski Commissar. Some skills would need changing to reflect different organizations and their goals. I also really like how the Sovietsk book does Psychics and want to adapt that to the CS. However, I don't want every military to be the same. So I'm okay with one military using sperate OCCs and another using MOSs. That's why I think conversion notes, beyond just language and common skills, would be helpful

PB no longer has a license for Robotech and while they could get away with using some of the stuff they created themselves for other lines I think they avoid transforming vehicles like the plague, although there is a submarine that transforms into a robot in the NGR book.

I know they don't have the license to Robotech but no body has lock on transforming vehicles. Palladium already has several of their own. The Kittani has three. There's a transforming motorcycle. The NGR has the sub. I'm sure there's others I'm forgetting. So if Palladium has the rights to the Veritech Car they could rename it and use it.

Sambot wrote:I also, as it's been mentioned before, a D-Bee book for the Three Galaxies. Something along the lines of Aliens Unlimited only for the Three Galaxies. Some info about the race, their world and examples of their technology. I would expand on the types of aliens beyond biped though. Like Centaurs and Mermaids and Angels.

I love the idea but would like to avoid the Aliens Unlimited style book. From now on if we get a race we should also get
- a complete description of there home system
- some cultural information
- some history
- and yes some unique technology or magic.

A big book of races that turn around and use the same armor, weapons, and magic as the humans is just not that interesting.

The Aliens Unlimited books do all that. Although they could be better with the technology. Still after a certain point there's going to be similarities.

I would love to see some non-bipedal races but you have to keep in mind this is a game. If the race can not use power armor, fly a space fighter, or walk around a standard space ship no player is going to want to use them and if that is the case why bother. Zebuloids are great examples of a race players like that s non-humanoid because they have a hook.

That's just it, we have serpentoid like power armor for serpent aliens along with vehicles/armor for dolphins and whale. Why not a power armor for Centaurs or Mermaids? Why not a cockpit filled with water or with controls based for tentacles instead of hands? Mermaids on spaceships? Turn off the gravity or fill the decks with water, or some combination like on SeaQuestDSV so they can swim around. Besides, not every biped race can do that now. Why should all non-bipeds?

I would say the technology of the Three Galaxies needs an overhaul but since it has never really been explained calling it an overhaul would be too generous. If someone wanted to do this it would be best, IMO, to start from scratch. Create the technology and then modify existing ships and weapons to fit the new system. The ships are a mess and trying to fit them together with new stuff is really tough.

I kind of like some mess. When you have multiple worlds forming one state they're not going to have the same level of technology or even the same type of technology at all.

Sambot · Unread post by **Sambot** » Fri May 21, 2021 5:43 am

Rogerd wrote:It needs an overhaul to be honest.

In all the settings, the players are Heroes, a cut above the rest and the changes need to reflect this.

Skills need to be similar to Savage Worlds. Common skiils, and Programs. These cover all skills under the umbrella, but there beeds to an Expertise (or Specialisation) skill. So a player could have 60% in Computers, but 80% in hacking.

OCC's need cutting down, to the useful ones. Again a SW approach is best. Such that a player could multiclass if needed.

Powers need to be reflect whether standard play or four colour heroes too. We do not need a gazillion types. Keep it simple. Chargen should be quick and easy to grasp. If I take an hour to create a character that gets dead in ten minutes, immersion and fun factor go bye-bye.

Lastly levels need to go. PB cannot keep pace with DnD or PF. While PB nay have been born of a vision based on old AD& D, those times are long gone. Evolve or Die really.

I don't think player characters need to be a cut above the rest or have greater powers. I wouldn't want to play a Mary Sue who's given everything and is the bestest ever. Where's the challenge? The adventure? Where's the heroics? Where's the fun? She's the best. She wins. Game over. Boring.

Metroman = Boring, No challenge. He always wins.
Megamind = Cool, Challenging. He has to work for victory and he can still lose.

Sure its no fun to spend time creating a character only to have them die quickly. That doesn't mean one can't have fun with it.

"Hello I'm a Bard. Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.
"Hello, Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.
"Hello, Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.

"How many of those do you have?" (Referring to character sheets)
"Fifty!"

"Oh no! We're sitting ducks! What are we going to do?"
"Hide being the pile of dead Bards!"

"Total Waffle, Dude!"

I do think it'd be nice if we didn't have to hunt for everything we wanted our characters to have to speed up the creation process. That doesn't mean that death shouldn't be a risk for characters.

I can see common skills. I disagree about skill packages where they get everything in the skill category. Just because a Communications Engineer can work a radio that doesn't mean they can operate Radar or Sonar systems or that they know anything about Public Speaking.

Who decides which OCC is useful? I think the usefulness of OCCs depends on the game. I also can't say I'm in favor of multiclassing. I can see changing classes but not multiple classes at the same time.

What's wrong with levels? How else are you supposed to know if you're character has improved or not?

Emerald MoonSilver · Fri May 21, 2021 9:34 pm

Well if truth be told what I would really like to see, but has about a .0004% chance of happening is to see official conversions of the various gundam mecha to the palladium rules. Hey if your going to dream, dream big, right???

Emerald.

Rogerd · Unread post by **Rogerd** » Mon May 24, 2021 4:33 pm

Sambot wrote:
Rogerd wrote:It needs an overhaul to be honest.

In all the settings, the players are Heroes, a cut above the rest and the changes need to reflect this.

Skills need to be similar to Savage Worlds. Common skiils, and Programs. These cover all skills under the umbrella, but there beeds to an Expertise (or Specialisation) skill. So a player could have 60% in Computers, but 80% in hacking.

OCC's need cutting down, to the useful ones. Again a SW approach is best. Such that a player could multiclass if needed.

Powers need to be reflect whether standard play or four colour heroes too. We do not need a gazillion types. Keep it simple. Chargen should be quick and easy to grasp. If I take an hour to create a character that gets dead in ten minutes, immersion and fun factor go bye-bye.

Lastly levels need to go. PB cannot keep pace with DnD or PF. While PB nay have been born of a vision based on old AD& D, those times are long gone. Evolve or Die really.

I don't think player characters need to be a cut above the rest or have greater powers. I wouldn't want to play a Mary Sue who's given everything and is the bestest ever. Where's the challenge? The adventure? Where's the heroics? Where's the fun? She's the best. She wins. Game over. Boring.

Metroman = Boring, No challenge. He always wins.
Megamind = Cool, Challenging. He has to work for victory and he can still lose.

Sure its no fun to spend time creating a character only to have them die quickly. That doesn't mean one can't have fun with it.

"Hello I'm a Bard. Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.
"Hello, Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.
"Hello, Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.

"How many of those do you have?" (Referring to character sheets)
"Fifty!"

"Oh no! We're sitting ducks! What are we going to do?"
"Hide being the pile of dead Bards!"

"Total Waffle, Dude!"

I do think it'd be nice if we didn't have to hunt for everything we wanted our characters to have to speed up the creation process. That doesn't mean that death shouldn't be a risk for characters.

I can see common skills. I disagree about skill packages where they get everything in the skill category. Just because a Communications Engineer can work a radio that doesn't mean they can operate Radar or Sonar systems or that they know anything about Public Speaking.

Who decides which OCC is useful? I think the usefulness of OCCs depends on the game. I also can't say I'm in favor of multiclassing. I can see changing classes but not multiple classes at the same time.

What's wrong with levels? How else are you supposed to know if you're character has improved or not?

1. Players being a cut above is something mentioned in both Heroes Unlimited and Palladium Fantasy. No one mentioned being a Mary Sue.

2. No mentioned death shouldn't be a risk either. Players should cut down mooks without rolling dice, just interesting GM descriptions. Again look at Savage Worlds.

3. There are entirely too many skills. Look at other cinematic systems; M&M, Savage Worlds, Prowlers and Paragons, Mythic D6, Pathfinder, Dungeons and Dragons. All share similar ideas regarding skills. Stripping them out, and creating something simpler to speed up gaming. Whether you want packages etc is YMMV really.

4. Common sense for classes really. You only need a paragraph describing them, not half a page. Again look at Savage Worlds.

5. Levels are not the only yard stick to measure improvement. Only the main D20 games (PF, DnD, 13th Age) do that, M&M doesn't bother with levels either. You can measure improvement stat, skills, and improvement in powers with XP to spend as players want.

6. Art. OMG it is as a whole terrible, and lazy. Get a decent artist and commission them for FFS.

Fenris2020 · Unread post by **Fenris2020** » Tue May 25, 2021 6:33 pm

Rogerd wrote:
Sambot wrote:
Rogerd wrote:It needs an overhaul to be honest.

In all the settings, the players are Heroes, a cut above the rest and the changes need to reflect this.

Skills need to be similar to Savage Worlds. Common skiils, and Programs. These cover all skills under the umbrella, but there beeds to an Expertise (or Specialisation) skill. So a player could have 60% in Computers, but 80% in hacking.

OCC's need cutting down, to the useful ones. Again a SW approach is best. Such that a player could multiclass if needed.

Powers need to be reflect whether standard play or four colour heroes too. We do not need a gazillion types. Keep it simple. Chargen should be quick and easy to grasp. If I take an hour to create a character that gets dead in ten minutes, immersion and fun factor go bye-bye.

Lastly levels need to go. PB cannot keep pace with DnD or PF. While PB nay have been born of a vision based on old AD& D, those times are long gone. Evolve or Die really.

I don't think player characters need to be a cut above the rest or have greater powers. I wouldn't want to play a Mary Sue who's given everything and is the bestest ever. Where's the challenge? The adventure? Where's the heroics? Where's the fun? She's the best. She wins. Game over. Boring.

Metroman = Boring, No challenge. He always wins.
Megamind = Cool, Challenging. He has to work for victory and he can still lose.

Sure its no fun to spend time creating a character only to have them die quickly. That doesn't mean one can't have fun with it.

"Hello I'm a Bard. Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.
"Hello, Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.
"Hello, Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.

"How many of those do you have?" (Referring to character sheets)
"Fifty!"

"Oh no! We're sitting ducks! What are we going to do?"
"Hide being the pile of dead Bards!"

"Total Waffle, Dude!"

I do think it'd be nice if we didn't have to hunt for everything we wanted our characters to have to speed up the creation process. That doesn't mean that death shouldn't be a risk for characters.

I can see common skills. I disagree about skill packages where they get everything in the skill category. Just because a Communications Engineer can work a radio that doesn't mean they can operate Radar or Sonar systems or that they know anything about Public Speaking.

Who decides which OCC is useful? I think the usefulness of OCCs depends on the game. I also can't say I'm in favor of multiclassing. I can see changing classes but not multiple classes at the same time.

What's wrong with levels? How else are you supposed to know if you're character has improved or not?

1. Players being a cut above is something mentioned in both Heroes Unlimited and Palladium Fantasy. No one mentioned being a Mary Sue.

2. No mentioned death shouldn't be a risk either. Players should cut down mooks without rolling dice, just interesting GM descriptions. Again look at Savage Worlds.

3. There are entirely too many skills. Look at other cinematic systems; M&M, Savage Worlds, Prowlers and Paragons, Mythic D6, Pathfinder, Dungeons and Dragons. All share similar ideas regarding skills. Stripping them out, and creating something simpler to speed up gaming. Whether you want packages etc is YMMV really.

4. Common sense for classes really. You only need a paragraph describing them, not half a page. Again look at Savage Worlds.

5. Levels are not the only yard stick to measure improvement. Only the main D20 games (PF, DnD, 13th Age) do that, M&M doesn't bother with levels either. You can measure improvement stat, skills, and improvement in powers with XP to spend as players want.

6. Art. OMG it is as a whole terrible, and lazy. Get a decent artist and commission them for FFS.

I can see you seem to like Savage Worlds.
I consider it to be a poor system with boring classes and descriptions of what they have. The lack of varying skills is also a problem.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Tue May 25, 2021 9:56 pm

Emerald MoonSilver wrote:Well if truth be told what I would really like to see, but has about a .0004% chance of happening is to see official conversions of the various gundam mecha to the palladium rules. Hey if your going to dream, dream big, right???

Emerald.

More Likely to see it converted into R. Tal's Mekton... oh wait the Gundam Senki RPG in Japan uses R. Tal's Fuzion... so why isn't it here yet.

With Bandai having previously gone with the deeply detailed creation system of Mekton Z; that allows structured design of almost anything from a sword to power armor with scaling from Micronauts or DG Cells to Unicron or the Devil Gundam.
It isn't likely they'd go with a shallow and arbitrary system like Palladium where someone either just throws a bunch of numbers together as they like or are limited by construction rules to something half the desired size with weapons that somehow scale down as they grow larger. It less a 4 in 10,000 chance and more like 1 in a million or .000001% chance.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Tue May 25, 2021 10:03 pm

Fenris2020 wrote:
Rogerd wrote:
Sambot wrote:
Rogerd wrote:It needs an overhaul to be honest.

In all the settings, the players are Heroes, a cut above the rest and the changes need to reflect this.

Skills need to be similar to Savage Worlds. Common skiils, and Programs. These cover all skills under the umbrella, but there beeds to an Expertise (or Specialisation) skill. So a player could have 60% in Computers, but 80% in hacking.

OCC's need cutting down, to the useful ones. Again a SW approach is best. Such that a player could multiclass if needed.

Powers need to be reflect whether standard play or four colour heroes too. We do not need a gazillion types. Keep it simple. Chargen should be quick and easy to grasp. If I take an hour to create a character that gets dead in ten minutes, immersion and fun factor go bye-bye.

Lastly levels need to go. PB cannot keep pace with DnD or PF. While PB nay have been born of a vision based on old AD& D, those times are long gone. Evolve or Die really.

I don't think player characters need to be a cut above the rest or have greater powers. I wouldn't want to play a Mary Sue who's given everything and is the bestest ever. Where's the challenge? The adventure? Where's the heroics? Where's the fun? She's the best. She wins. Game over. Boring.

Metroman = Boring, No challenge. He always wins.
Megamind = Cool, Challenging. He has to work for victory and he can still lose.

Sure its no fun to spend time creating a character only to have them die quickly. That doesn't mean one can't have fun with it.

"Hello I'm a Bard. Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.
"Hello, Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.
"Hello, Aaaarrgghh!" Character dies.

"How many of those do you have?" (Referring to character sheets)
"Fifty!"

"Oh no! We're sitting ducks! What are we going to do?"
"Hide being the pile of dead Bards!"

"Total Waffle, Dude!"

I do think it'd be nice if we didn't have to hunt for everything we wanted our characters to have to speed up the creation process. That doesn't mean that death shouldn't be a risk for characters.

I can see common skills. I disagree about skill packages where they get everything in the skill category. Just because a Communications Engineer can work a radio that doesn't mean they can operate Radar or Sonar systems or that they know anything about Public Speaking.

Who decides which OCC is useful? I think the usefulness of OCCs depends on the game. I also can't say I'm in favor of multiclassing. I can see changing classes but not multiple classes at the same time.

What's wrong with levels? How else are you supposed to know if you're character has improved or not?

1. Players being a cut above is something mentioned in both Heroes Unlimited and Palladium Fantasy. No one mentioned being a Mary Sue.

2. No mentioned death shouldn't be a risk either. Players should cut down mooks without rolling dice, just interesting GM descriptions. Again look at Savage Worlds.

3. There are entirely too many skills. Look at other cinematic systems; M&M, Savage Worlds, Prowlers and Paragons, Mythic D6, Pathfinder, Dungeons and Dragons. All share similar ideas regarding skills. Stripping them out, and creating something simpler to speed up gaming. Whether you want packages etc is YMMV really.

4. Common sense for classes really. You only need a paragraph describing them, not half a page. Again look at Savage Worlds.

5. Levels are not the only yard stick to measure improvement. Only the main D20 games (PF, DnD, 13th Age) do that, M&M doesn't bother with levels either. You can measure improvement stat, skills, and improvement in powers with XP to spend as players want.

6. Art. OMG it is as a whole terrible, and lazy. Get a decent artist and commission them for FFS.

I can see you seem to like Savage Worlds.
I consider it to be a poor system with boring classes and descriptions of what they have. The lack of varying skills is also a problem.

It really seems like they are being intentionally obtuse.

Rogerd · Unread post by **Rogerd** » Wed May 26, 2021 5:33 pm

@Fenris2020

I can see you seem to like Savage Worlds.
I consider it to be a poor system with boring classes and descriptions of what they have. The lack of varying skills is also a problem.[/quote]

It is designed for fast and easy chargen
Fast gameplay
Highly cinematic

And alongside Pathfinder, DnD, Savage Worlds has some of the most varied settings to game in.

As to the skills, you simply pick Expertise, and a skill and then there you go. In the same way Pathfinder does the same with Lore, Knowledge etc. They are designed to emcompass a lot of skills. Now you could easily substitute sone for PB skill categories and accomplish the same thing.

Sambot · Unread post by **Sambot** » Wed May 26, 2021 6:38 pm

Rogerd wrote:1. Players being a cut above is something mentioned in both Heroes Unlimited and Palladium Fantasy. No one mentioned being a Mary Sue.

2. No mentioned death shouldn't be a risk either. Players should cut down mooks without rolling dice, just interesting GM descriptions. Again look at Savage Worlds.

3. There are entirely too many skills. Look at other cinematic systems; M&M, Savage Worlds, Prowlers and Paragons, Mythic D6, Pathfinder, Dungeons and Dragons. All share similar ideas regarding skills. Stripping them out, and creating something simpler to speed up gaming. Whether you want packages etc is YMMV really.

4. Common sense for classes really. You only need a paragraph describing them, not half a page. Again look at Savage Worlds.

5. Levels are not the only yard stick to measure improvement. Only the main D20 games (PF, DnD, 13th Age) do that, M&M doesn't bother with levels either. You can measure improvement stat, skills, and improvement in powers with XP to spend as players want.

6. Art. OMG it is as a whole terrible, and lazy. Get a decent artist and commission them for FFS.

1. If the characters are already a cut above the rest why increase things even further? Also if a character is given everything so that they are the best without ever having to work at it, then they are a Mary Sue.

2. If the players are Mary or Marty Sue's where's the challenge in playing? It's like using a cheat code on a video game. Now you're immortal and can slay thousands with one sweep of your sword. Now what? You can't get better because you're already the bestest evar. There's no challenge because you have all the knowledge and skills to accomplish everything. What's the point?

3. That would be a difference of opinion. I think there should be more skills. That allows characters to be different from each other. If every character ends up being Mary Sue, why do we need Marty Sue? Mary Sue can do it all.

4. I think that would depend on the class and their environment. You can get very different characters just by changing their origin. Unless of course they're Mary and Marty Sue. Then it doesn't matter.

5. Isn't spending XP to increase skills or powers in fact changing levels?

6. Art is entirely subjective. Art that you hate could be loved by others. The same could also be true.

Since you keep mentioning Savage Worlds, I'm going to guess you really like that game. Why not just play Savage Worlds? Why are you trying to change Rifts? Why get Rifts if you don't like it? I don't understand. And since I've never played maybe you could answer another question for me? Can a character in Savage Worlds die? I ask because I've never heard of any RPG where a player character couldn't die. I've never heard of any game were the player couldn't lose. At least not without cheats.

drewkitty ~..~ · Wed May 26, 2021 9:17 pm

3: stripping out many of the skill would hamper modern-day or High tech settings. It works for the settings mentioned because they are of the fantasy settings.

Rogerd · Unread post by **Rogerd** » Wed May 26, 2021 10:53 pm

Sambot wrote:1. If the characters are already a cut above the rest why increase things even further? Also if a character is given everything so that they are the best without ever having to work at it, then they are a Mary Sue.

2. If the players are Mary or Marty Sue's where's the challenge in playing? It's like using a cheat code on a video game. Now you're immortal and can slay thousands with one sweep of your sword. Now what? You can't get better because you're already the bestest evar. There's no challenge because you have all the knowledge and skills to accomplish everything. What's the point?

3. That would be a difference of opinion. I think there should be more skills. That allows characters to be different from each other. If every character ends up being Mary Sue, why do we need Marty Sue? Mary Sue can do it all.

4. I think that would depend on the class and their environment. You can get very different characters just by changing their origin. Unless of course they're Mary and Marty Sue. Then it doesn't matter.

5. Isn't spending XP to increase skills or powers in fact changing levels?

6. Art is entirely subjective. Art that you hate could be loved by others. The same could also be true.

Since you keep mentioning Savage Worlds, I'm going to guess you really like that game. Why not just play Savage Worlds? Why are you trying to change Rifts? Why get Rifts if you don't like it? I don't understand. And since I've never played maybe you could answer another question for me? Can a character in Savage Worlds die? I ask because I've never heard of any RPG where a player character couldn't die. I've never heard of any game were the player couldn't lose. At least not without cheats.

1. Your level of cognitive dissonance here is astounding. Stop mentioning being a Mary Sue, I suggest you read what is actually written not your imaginary version!

2. Not the least of which, both HU and Pal Fantasy, heroes are better than everyone else. Fact! It is in the core books. Since I never mentioned slaying thousands only that heroes cut down mooks. Look at Conan films, that is fantasy heroes. He has that down and still manages to keep the heroic tropes without being unbeatable. If you clearly want to play gritty fantasy, go play Mythras - that is the best one there is!

3. As the characters are heroes, PB should seek to emulate source material. You don't get hundreds of skills in comic books. It needs to be simple and easy. And as I said, in the previous post, you get Expertise which allows you to pick one skill you are better at.

4. Of course classes change due to origin, and setting. In news today, water is wet!

5. No. Using XP means increasing what you already have. Levelling up usually means gaining powers and abilities you never had, something that is prevalent in PF and DnD and one thing that irritates me about me both.

6. Nope. There is literally no excuse for the hand drawn **** being churned out. Not a one.

7. How old are you? Of course SW characters can die. And yes I play SW, obviously.

Rogerd · Unread post by **Rogerd** » Wed May 26, 2021 10:55 pm

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:3: stripping out many of the skill would hamper modern-day or High tech settings. It works for the settings mentioned because they are of the fantasy settings.

Nah, this wrong.

Powered by the Apocalypse, Fate, Savage Worlds. All have high tech settings without hundreds of skills. In fact PF, DnD have high tech settings too, also without hundreds of skills.

Rogerd · Unread post by **Rogerd** » Wed May 26, 2021 11:01 pm

Zer0 Kay wrote:It really seems like they are being intentionally obtuse.

Certainly beginning to look that way. Or trolling.

Fenris2020 · Unread post by **Fenris2020** » Thu May 27, 2021 7:14 pm

Rogerd wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:It really seems like they are being intentionally obtuse.

Certainly beginning to look that way. Or trolling.

Or, as an alternative, I'm familiar with Savage Worlds and it isn't a preference of mine, for several reasons.

Sambot · Unread post by **Sambot** » Sat May 29, 2021 5:48 am

Rogerd wrote:1. Your level of cognitive dissonance here is astounding. Stop mentioning being a Mary Sue, I suggest you read what is actually written not your imaginary version!

2. Not the least of which, both HU and Pal Fantasy, heroes are better than everyone else. Fact! It is in the core books. Since I never mentioned slaying thousands only that heroes cut down mooks. Look at Conan films, that is fantasy heroes. He has that down and still manages to keep the heroic tropes without being unbeatable. If you clearly want to play gritty fantasy, go play Mythras - that is the best one there is!

3. As the characters are heroes, PB should seek to emulate source material. You don't get hundreds of skills in comic books. It needs to be simple and easy. And as I said, in the previous post, you get Expertise which allows you to pick one skill you are better at.

4. Of course classes change due to origin, and setting. In news today, water is wet!

5. No. Using XP means increasing what you already have. Levelling up usually means gaining powers and abilities you never had, something that is prevalent in PF and DnD and one thing that irritates me about me both.

6. Nope. There is literally no excuse for the hand drawn **** being churned out. Not a one.

7. How old are you? Of course SW characters can die. And yes I play SW, obviously.

I don't know where my reply went to but I'll try again.

1. I have read the definition of a Mary Sue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
What you described for a character sounds like a Mary Sue.

2. Maybe you could tell my where in the core books it says Heroes are better? I can't find it. Also if the books were all about Heroes, why do the Core Rules allow for the creation of Villains? You're also proving my point with Conan. He isn't unbeatable. Also being better than everyone else doesn't make one a hero. It's actions. Sometimes it's the weakest people who are the greatest heroes.

3. The ability to create Villains well as evil OCCs says otherwise. As for using source material, I give you Steve Rogers. He was small and weak and he was a hero before he ever received the super soldier serum. In the movie, Steve dove on the grenade to save everyone else. Colonel Phillips' chosen one, who was everything Steve Rogers wasn't, hid behind a car. If we go by your reasoning though, that character because he was physically better than Steve Rogers should be the Hero.

4. Which would mean that they'd have different skill sets making each OCC different.

5. The amount of XP determines what level your on, which determines your skill percentage, power capabilities, and ability to learn new skills and powers.

6. As opposed to computer drawn ****? Art is subjective. One person can see something beautiful the other sees ****.

7. That's cool. It was sounding like they didn't from your complaint a couple posts above. I'm going to presume you enjoy playing it. Which makes me wonder why you want to change Rifts? Why not just play the game you enjoy?

Rogerd wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:3: stripping out many of the skill would hamper modern-day or High tech settings. It works for the settings mentioned because they are of the fantasy settings.

Nah, this wrong.

Powered by the Apocalypse, Fate, Savage Worlds. All have high tech settings without hundreds of skills. In fact PF, DnD have high tech settings too, also without hundreds of skills.

It sounds very abstract and boring to me. If characters get all the skills in that category, why have specialties? Why have a Bomb Tech when every character who has Military Skills can defuse a bomb? Why have paramedics when every character who has medical skills is a Medical Doctor. Why have Fighter Pilots when every character can pilot fighters?

Rogerd wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:It really seems like they are being intentionally obtuse.

Certainly beginning to look that way. Or trolling.

I'm not trolling. I'm trying to understand why you're trying to change a game you don't seem to like very much into a game that you do.

Rogerd · Unread post by **Rogerd** » Sat May 29, 2021 7:44 am

Sambot wrote:1. I have read the definition of a Mary Sue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
What you described for a character sounds like a Mary Sue.

No it isn't anything like one - not even close.
Mary Sue always succeeds, heroes can, should, and do fail - all the time. Then eventually succeed in the end.

Sambot wrote:2. Maybe you could tell my where in the core books it says Heroes are better? I can't find it. You're also proving my point with Conan. He isn't unbeatable. Also being better than everyone else doesn't make one a hero. It's actions. Sometimes it's the weakest people who are the greatest heroes.

I am proving my point, not yours, as Heroes are not unbeatable, but they are better than normal people and stand up for those weaker. Look at what Oliver Queen said in Arrow crossover Crisis on Earth-X. "The strong protect the weak."

Palladium Fantasy page 62
I find it curious that many players often seem to miss the fact that they are playing larger than life heroes in a fantastic world. This is particularly true of the setting in The Palladium Fantasy Game.

The player characters in the Palladium World are not Joe Average. Larger than life, these characters step out of the shadows and into the realm of legend.

They are heroes who dare to dream and are willing to fight to attain that dream.

Heroes Unlimited page 40
we take the premise that supermen have walked the Earth since the beginning of the human race! Stories, myths and legends about great heroes, prophets, oracles, demigods and gods (Beowolf, Gilgamesh, Vishnu, Bishamon, Merlin, King Arthur, Hercules, Thor,
and countless others) may actually recount tales about real people with superhuman powers

So yeah, the heroes are a cut above the rest. Literally walking legends, and like in all stories must have their antithesis.

Sambot wrote:3. The ability to create Villains well as evil OCCs says otherwise. As for using source material, I give you Steve Rogers. He was small and weak and he was a hero before he ever received the super soldier serum. In the movie, Steve dove on the grenade to save everyone else. Colonel Phillips' chosen one, who was everything Steve Rogers wasn't, hid behind a car. If we go by your reasoning though, that character because he was physically better than Steve Rogers should be the Hero.

You have literally missed the entire point of what being a hero is. Creating villains, and heroes are there to follow literary tropes, protagonist and antagonist. It is why heroes go through mooks, they're unimportant in the story. Look at season 1 of Arrow where Oliver rescues Walter Steele.

https://youtu.be/msynFewsIN0?t=353

He literally goes through a corridor of mooks. Nothing Gary Stu about that. Now the fear part, and hiding behind a car - that is what makes a hero, fighting your inner demons like fear, hesitation, and then being the hero. Oliver had this in season 1 when the Dark Archer kicked his ass. He later went on to beat his fear, and then the Dark Archer (Malcolm Merlyn).

Let's refer to my previous point, regarding mythology. Zeus fought Typhon, got his ass beat, imprisoned, but once freed went on to kick Typhon's ass. Heroes and Villains are a trope; Good vs Evil.

Sambot wrote:4. Which would mean that they'd have different skill sets making each OCC different.

Which is dependant upon setting. But again, all these differences can be picked at chargen, making each one unique. For instance some SW settings have different names for metaphysics but are in reality the same thing - the ability to use magic. But each one is a riff or theme to add flavour to the setting.

SW Beasts & Barbarians called Monks ability Metaphysics Enlightenment, while in Shaintar it is called The Way. Same thing, more-or-less, but setting specific to evoke flavour, or colour.

Sambot wrote:5. The amount of XP determines what level your on, which determines your skill percentage, power capabilities, and ability to learn new skills and powers.

Now revelation for you, most games DO NOT use levels.
So trying to ascribe levels to the use of XP us utter rubbish man.
DnD / PF provide new powers with each level. Using XP means your current abilities improve.
Two completely different metrics for measuring advancement.
I literally said exactly this is my last post.

Sambot wrote:6. As opposed to computer drawn ****? Art is subjective. One person can see something beautiful the other sees ****.

I have a feeling a 12 year old with moderate talent in art could actually do better than most of Palladium's art - and they would even use a computer to do it. Point is that art was fine for the time, 80's, early 90's. Nowadays, it is just lazy.

We have the god pictured in Dragons and Gods, with several dragons breathing flame and circling him, or the below from Magic the Gathering.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/25/e6/31 ... b72679.jpg

Now this is the kind of art we should be getting, not the substandard crap PB put out.

Sambot wrote:7. That's cool. It was sounding like they didn't from your complaint a couple posts above. I'm going to presume you enjoy playing it. Which makes me wonder why you want to change Rifts? Why not just play the game you enjoy?

I do, and am about to play a multiverse SW game drawing from Lords of Gossamer and Magic the Gathering. Savage Worlds has one of the most diverse list of settings currently - obviously still doing Savage Rifts, but now Savage Pathfinder. But in it I will be using a lot of the PB Fantasy classes, with HU skill programs.

Let me give you an example power.

Blast - is essentially some form of ranged attack effective on one person. Now if I had the trappings of fire, it would be a fire ball, but it would not mean I could do a lightning bolt. Now if I picked the Edge, New Power, and added lightning trapping it would also mean I could cast a lightning and a fireball.

In essence you remove the need for a gazillion spells. Each trapping adds a different twist on the power you have. The same goes for just about every power, whether Burst (AoE), Barrier, Protection, Shields etc. Cost and output is the same. And combat is fast and simple.

Same thing for skills. But you could easily switch out some of them and add in HU skill programs, and use the Expertise skill to include specifics each player wants to know.