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I've been going through all my palladium books recently and certain questions have popped back into my head, that I've had over the years. One was the actual use of Cyclone models by the military.

I know that the rpg allows all models to be used by the players, but I'm not sure exactly what the cannon sources are saying. In the Prelude to Shadow Chronicles comics I count two types of cyclones being used, the VR-052 and the VR-057 and I believe it's the same for the movie though it seems the VR-052 is possibly being phased out. Furthermore, both units seem to be used by both male and female soldiers as Janice is wearing a unisex CVR-3 which makes sense. In the first issue of Prelude there also seems to be another cyclone model in use, but since it never transforms and riders are wearing tactical armor I just assumed it was a motorcycle with cyclone type weaponry.

Now where it becomes tricky for me, is that both Sterlings, Maia and Dana are wearing the CVR-3F similar, but not exactly like Rook's CVR-3. I'm unclear if this version of the armor can support all the cyclone models; I believe the rpg says yes and no in different areas. However, by the use of these armors the Sterlings are indicating that the VR-038 is still in use by the military. My conclusion though, is that they are just using out of date military gear since Maia is also using a modified Alpha rather than a full Shadow Alpha model and that the VR-038 has been fully dropped by the military proper who opted for more unisex models and that the VR-038 would only be found in any numbers among the freedom fighters of earth.

Just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts about what is exactly being used by the military or if the Art of Shadow Chronicles book had anything to say on the matter (unfortunately I never got a copy).

Thanks.

FelixGungrave wrote:I know that the rpg allows all models to be used by the players, but I'm not sure exactly what the cannon sources are saying. In the Prelude to Shadow Chronicles comics I count two types of cyclones being used, the VR-052 and the VR-057 and I believe it's the same for the movie though it seems the VR-052 is possibly being phased out. Furthermore, both units seem to be used by both male and female soldiers as Janice is wearing a unisex CVR-3 which makes sense. In the first issue of Prelude there also seems to be another cyclone model in use, but since it never transforms and riders are wearing tactical armor I just assumed it was a motorcycle with cyclone type weaponry.

The First Issue of Prelude is just a VR-052 with the "Rand" weapon package (forearm gun) instead of the "Scott" package (2 tube missile launchers), the body armor doesn't appear to be CVR-3 (that or its a different model). Indications do suggest that while the VR-052 is on the way out its replacement has not been finalized/selected as the VR-057 is still a prototype.

Officially I do not think the UEEF has a policy toward gender use of Cyclones, though they do seem to favor male pilots over females. (Ironically the ASC is more "progressive" in use of female mecha pilots than the RDF or UEEF in the show proper, other post-series media due add to there respective rosters but still heavily slant toward use of male pilots in actual operations).

FelixGungrave wrote:Now where it becomes tricky for me, is that both Sterlings, Maia and Dana are wearing the CVR-3F similar, but not exactly like Rook's CVR-3. I'm unclear if this version of the armor can support all the cyclone models; I believe the rpg says yes and no in different areas. However, by the use of these armors the Sterlings are indicating that the VR-038 is still in use by the military. My conclusion though, is that they are just using out of date military gear since Maia is also using a modified Alpha rather than a full Shadow Alpha model and that the VR-038 has been fully dropped by the military proper who opted for more unisex models and that the VR-038 would only be found in any numbers among the freedom fighters of earth.

Rook isn't the only CVR-3F from the series, there is also Sue Grahm who also was using a VR-038 in the show circa the time frame of Shadow Chronicles OVA (events technically precede the OVA, but the time frame is at most "weeks" and more likely "days"). I would just put the differences in the CVR-3F down to artistic styles and leave it at that (in the series Ariel's chest is not as noticeable as in the OVA for example).

AFAIK there is nothing to indicate the CVR-3F is exclusive to the VR-03x series and the CVR-3M is exclusive to the VR-04x/05x series, within canon we know the -3F is used with the VR-041 (Invasion Comic #4). Which would seem to support the idea that the -3F and -3M unless otherwise indicated are interchangeable w/n canon (2E PB RPG canon does have the VR-01x and VR-02x series using independent CVR versions that are not interchangeable like the CVR-3 is with the VR-03x/04x/05x).

Aside from the Invasion Video Game (using prototypes), there is nothing in canon that suggests any production level Cyclone has a Shadow Device in 2044. What is in canon (RT.com Infopedia's Cyclone entries) suggests the -038's role has shifted by this time toward "augmenting and supporting the main line Cyclone Infantry units using the VR-052." (VR-052 Infopedia Entry)

Mia's Alpha-Z was slated to be the new main model in 2042 (Alpha-Z Infopedia Entry), but the introduction of Shadow Technology put that on the side. Technically Mia's retrofitted Alpha would IINM be superior to the regular Shadow Fighter if optimization features (better aerodynamics, more powerful engines) are retained that are said to make it more capable in all modes and altitudes compared to the H/I (which a regular Shadow Fighter seems based on). And thanks to the Super Shadow Fighters NOT having their Shadow Devices installed (which might conflict with the 85EP description, but that's the Yune'verse for you), it would strongly indicate those features have been (or could be) retained.

Thanks for response ShadowLogan, espicially with the information on Maia's Alpha.

I had forgotten about Sue in the series, which kind answers my question if the VR-038 was still be utilized by the military. I have to keep in mind a lot of these events are happening concurrently with one another.

That begs a question about the Beta then, Its clearly its own Mecha as Scott uses one, but it seems the main fleet has by the time of Prelude has relegated it mainly just an attachment to the Alpha for its extra firepower and thrusters, without an independent pilot. Maybe my memory is failing me, but I don't recall one being flown by itself in either Prelude comics or the movie. The other comics I haven't looked at forever so my memory is spectacularly failing there.

ShadowLogan wrote:The First Issue of Prelude is just a VR-052 with the "Rand" weapon package (forearm gun) instead of the "Scott" package (2 tube missile launchers), the body armor doesn't appear to be CVR-3 (that or its a different model). Indications do suggest that while the VR-052 is on the way out its replacement has not been finalized/selected as the VR-057 is still a prototype.

close up of those troopers on later pages suggest they are wearing CVR-3 armor, but have the helmets off the CBR-5 armor. since we only really see the CBR-5 used with security forces, perhaps this hybrid armor type is supposed to be a security CVR variant, allowing Military Police forces to employ cyclones, while still being obviously not frontline soldiers.

FelixGungrave wrote:Now where it becomes tricky for me, is that both Sterlings, Maia and Dana are wearing the CVR-3F similar, but not exactly like Rook's CVR-3. I'm unclear if this version of the armor can support all the cyclone models; I believe the rpg says yes and no in different areas. However, by the use of these armors the Sterlings are indicating that the VR-038 is still in use by the military. My conclusion though, is that they are just using out of date military gear since Maia is also using a modified Alpha rather than a full Shadow Alpha model and that the VR-038 has been fully dropped by the military proper who opted for more unisex models and that the VR-038 would only be found in any numbers among the freedom fighters of earth.

Rook isn't the only CVR-3F from the series, there is also Sue Grahm who also was using a VR-038 in the show circa the time frame of Shadow Chronicles OVA (events technically precede the OVA, but the time frame is at most "weeks" and more likely "days"). I would just put the differences in the CVR-3F down to artistic styles and leave it at that (in the series Ariel's chest is not as noticeable as in the OVA for example).

AFAIK there is nothing to indicate the CVR-3F is exclusive to the VR-03x series and the CVR-3M is exclusive to the VR-04x/05x series, within canon we know the -3F is used with the VR-041 (Invasion Comic #4). Which would seem to support the idea that the -3F and -3M unless otherwise indicated are interchangeable w/n canon (2E PB RPG canon does have the VR-01x and VR-02x series using independent CVR versions that are not interchangeable like the CVR-3 is with the VR-03x/04x/05x).

the RPG also gives the -3F and -3M different stats (with the -3F having less armor), which i really dislike. if the -3M can handle everything from ultra-skinny (lancer) to ultra-bulky (Lunk), i have a hard time believing that the protection would somehow be lower on a similar sized female suit. nor do i think the UEEF would intentionally weaken the protection of their female troops.

(personally i have the F and M be model numbers, rather than gender indicators. the gender based stylings exist in both. -3M being the version used in the late 2030's and early 2040's, while visually identical older -3F was from the early 2030's and brought to earth by the UEEF during the recovery of the ASC.)

FelixGungrave wrote:That begs a question about the Beta then, Its clearly its own Mecha as Scott uses one, but it seems the main fleet has by the time of Prelude has relegated it mainly just an attachment to the Alpha for its extra firepower and thrusters, without an independent pilot. Maybe my memory is failing me, but I don't recall one being flown by itself in either Prelude comics or the movie. The other comics I haven't looked at forever so my memory is spectacularly failing there.

The only Beta to be shown operating independently in animation is the one recovered from Point K. The only place that I know of for certain (aside from RPG/Infopedia/AotSC) that establishes the Beta utilizing a pilot is the Sentinel Novels (I would also suspect the old Sentinels Comics, but I don't have them and have never read them).

IMHO the NG designs all have issues. The Beta does seem to be relegated to what amounts to an overly complicated FAST PACK addition to the Alpha and there is no real reason given for its lack of use solo by the UEEF (or its OSM counterpart AFAIK), there are of course fan theories but I do not think HG has formalized a why it was so that I can recall.

glitterboy2098 wrote:close up of those troopers on later pages suggest they are wearing CVR-3 armor, but have the helmets off the CBR-5 armor. since we only really see the CBR-5 used with security forces, perhaps this hybrid armor type is supposed to be a security CVR variant, allowing Military Police forces to employ cyclones, while still being obviously not frontline soldiers.

The helmet on the CVR-3 does appear to change depending on the Cyclone Model (along the "lower jaw line"), so I do not see why there could not be another helmet design in the mix. Putting a potential (albeit weak) hole in the idea of them using CVR-3 is that when the Inorganics rose up from the dead no one thought to switch to Battloid mode to use a more effective weapon (EP-40 vs H90 given the animation).

glitterboy2098 wrote:the RPG also gives the -3F and -3M different stats (with the -3F having less armor), which i really dislike. if the -3M can handle everything from ultra-skinny (lancer) to ultra-bulky (Lunk), i have a hard time believing that the protection would somehow be lower on a similar sized female suit. nor do i think the UEEF would intentionally weaken the protection of their female troops.

(personally i have the F and M be model numbers, rather than gender indicators. the gender based stylings exist in both. -3M being the version used in the late 2030's and early 2040's, while visually identical older -3F was from the early 2030's and brought to earth by the UEEF during the recovery of the ASC.)

Well Stat wise the RPG does things that do not always make sense or add up or adhere to the story. Personally I'd just treat it as light (F) and heavy (M) versions and leave it at that given post a main book production (not that I use this one) retroactively introduced the CVR-1 and CVR-2 to keep things simple.

FelixGungrave wrote:I've been going through all my palladium books recently and certain questions have popped back into my head, that I've had over the years. One was the actual use of Cyclone models by the military.

As you've probably gleaned from the previous replies, it's not exactly consistent... and, admittedly, this lack of consistency can't exactly be blamed entirely on the Robotech writers either.

FelixGungrave wrote:I know that the rpg allows all models to be used by the players, but I'm not sure exactly what the cannon sources are saying.

Both the old robotech.com Infopedia and the RPG are more or less aligned with the intention of the original designer... that anyone can operate any model of Ride Armor with only minor adjustments for the individual rider's build.

The idea that the VR-038 Bartley series is a "women's" Ride Armor is fanon, an artifact of the fact that Houquet (RT: Rook) and Shinobu (RT: Sue) are the only ones depicted operating that older model of Ride Armor in the animation. The Riding Suit itself comes in male and female versions, though the reason is actually to preserve unisex operation of the Ride Armor itself. (Basically, the female type has those spiked shoulders to account for the natural difference in shoulder width between men and women.) The reason Houquet (RT: Rook) uses such an old model Ride Armor is that it was given to her by a dying female soldier. She didn't scrounge for it among the predominantly male Mars forces the way the others did. (There's a certain amount of baggage here in that this is a show running on Japanese values from the 80's WRT women in the military.)

FelixGungrave wrote:My conclusion though, is that they are just using out of date military gear since Maia is also using a modified Alpha rather than a full Shadow Alpha model and that the VR-038 has been fully dropped by the military proper who opted for more unisex models and that the VR-038 would only be found in any numbers among the freedom fighters of earth.

Maia's not using an old model, she's got an Ace Custom. Essentially, the last production-model Alpha upgraded with Shadow Technology.

FelixGungrave wrote:I've been going through all my palladium books recently and certain questions have popped back into my head, that I've had over the years. One was the actual use of Cyclone models by the military.

I know that the rpg allows all models to be used by the players, but I'm not sure exactly what the cannon sources are saying. In the Prelude to Shadow Chronicles comics I count two types of cyclones being used, the VR-052 and the VR-057 and I believe it's the same for the movie though it seems the VR-052 is possibly being phased out. Furthermore, both units seem to be used by both male and female soldiers as Janice is wearing a unisex CVR-3 which makes sense. In the first issue of Prelude there also seems to be another cyclone model in use, but since it never transforms and riders are wearing tactical armor I just assumed it was a motorcycle with cyclone type weaponry.

Now where it becomes tricky for me, is that both Sterlings, Maia and Dana are wearing the CVR-3F similar, but not exactly like Rook's CVR-3. I'm unclear if this version of the armor can support all the cyclone models; I believe the rpg says yes and no in different areas. However, by the use of these armors the Sterlings are indicating that the VR-038 is still in use by the military. My conclusion though, is that they are just using out of date military gear since Maia is also using a modified Alpha rather than a full Shadow Alpha model and that the VR-038 has been fully dropped by the military proper who opted for more unisex models and that the VR-038 would only be found in any numbers among the freedom fighters of earth.

Just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts about what is exactly being used by the military or if the Art of Shadow Chronicles book had anything to say on the matter (unfortunately I never got a copy).

From a quick check, I don't think AotSC has anything to say on those subjects.