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What book lists the prices for coffee, coco, spices, etc? And page number as well.

Did I ask the impossible question or something?

I think so.

In North America all of those things; Coffee/Cocoa/spice; would be imported as luxury items. Thus x10 to x1000 times the prices we pay now.

The Whys: the crops that produce them (for the most part) are not grown in NA.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:In North America all of those things; Coffee/Cocoa/spice; would be imported as luxury items. Thus x10 to x1000 times the prices we pay now.

The Whys: the crops that produce them (for the most part) are not grown in NA.

I have read somewhere that in Rifts, America, that coffee is priceless.

pblackcrow wrote:What book lists the prices for coffee, coco, spices, etc? And page number as well.

Not sure if this is what you are looking for exactly but check out the Saloon Bum OCC found in Rifts World Book 14 on pg120 (bottom of left column and top of second column just above the pic). It doesn't have every example, but it might help.

pblackcrow wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:In North America all of those things; Coffee/Cocoa/spice; would be imported as luxury items. Thus x10 to x1000 times the prices we pay now.

The Whys: the crops that produce them (for the most part) are not grown in NA.

I have read somewhere that in Rifts, America, that coffee is priceless.

Oh........This gives me an idea for my Rift's california campaign and book I'm working on.. Make the climate suitable for growing coffee and several spices... That will help boost the economy there.....

Emerald.

pblackcrow wrote:What book lists the prices for coffee, coco, spices, etc? And page number as well.

A lot of stuff does not have set prices because availability would vary so wildly from area to area as to be meaningless. Anything that cannot be made/acquired locally is likely going to be either super expensive or simply not available.

Note in north america a lot of what you would find that is called "Coffee" in rifts earth is probably chickorie coffee. This was very common back when shipping actual coffee was a lot more expensive and comes from commonly wild weeds.

kaid wrote:

pblackcrow wrote:What book lists the prices for coffee, coco, spices, etc? And page number as well.

A lot of stuff does not have set prices because availability would vary so wildly from area to area as to be meaningless. Anything that cannot be made/acquired locally is likely going to be either super expensive or simply not available.

Note in north america a lot of what you would find that is called "Coffee" in rifts earth is probably chickorie coffee. This was very common back when shipping actual coffee was a lot more expensive and comes from commonly wild weeds.

The thing is, most coffee substitutes only substitute the "warm drink" part, not the caffeine.
For caffeine, they'd need to Yerba Mate or cassina/yaupon.

Of course, anybody who didn't want to research all that COULD just handwave it, assuming there are a bunch of coffee plants growing around Rifts North America, either in CS farms or growing wild, and so forth.
There could also be some DB plants that make a decent coffee substitute.

Personally, I like the idea that caffeine is much harder to come by in Rifts Earth than present day, and would probably only have actual coffee show up in big cities and/or very rarely. I think it's more fun and interesting to explore other stuff.

The stimulant aspect though could be covered by either using caffeine extracts (hightech) or mixing in some other plant that produces a stimulant.. ephedra ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra_(plant) ) perhaps, or youpon holly. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/w ... ea-cassina

There is also the possibility of coffee plants having been modified prerifts to grow in more climates, letting it be wild.

That said we know the coalition has diplomatic and trade contact with Columbia in SA, so odds are there is a flow of coffee into NA it is just a lot less common outside the southern parts of the continent. Plus I'd imagine the CS buys up plenty from Columbia, for the use of the higher ups in the army and government.

Given the Lone Star seed bank and agricultural capabilities, the CS has coffee.

Mark Hall wrote:Given the Lone Star seed bank and agricultural capabilities, the CS has coffee.

Or high ranking members of the CS have coffee. I suspect in places like lazlo or the big CS cities or even Triax you could get stuff like this but outside those areas availability/cost would fluctuate wildly.

Re: Coffee specifically.

Rifts World Book 14 "New West" in the Saloon Bum OCC pg120 "Coffee, tea, juice and soda are typically 1-2 credits a cup, glass or bottle." Elsewhere on the page it is mentioned "... most contain an exotic array of juices, herbs, drugs, and harmless components..." and "bowl of beans or rice (spicy or plain): 1-2 credits".

If the middle of now where New West can support "exotic" herbs, coffee (and tea) along with "spicy" beans or rice then I see no reason other regions could not.

Look to the region it originated from or was used in its raw form before companies began processing it for profit. The prices may not be listed in those books specifically, but you may find groups who still grow it for local use.

Coffee, requiring acidic soil, started in the Middle-East and now has a firm root in the volcanic soils of Central America and Indonesia.

Otherwise, you could probably look to create a synthetic variant for any drink that may be added to water to simulate what people think it tasted like.

ShadowLogan wrote:Re: Coffee specifically.

Rifts World Book 14 "New West" in the Saloon Bum OCC pg120 "Coffee, tea, juice and soda are typically 1-2 credits a cup, glass or bottle." Elsewhere on the page it is mentioned "... most contain an exotic array of juices, herbs, drugs, and harmless components..." and "bowl of beans or rice (spicy or plain): 1-2 credits".

If the middle of now where New West can support "exotic" herbs, coffee (and tea) along with "spicy" beans or rice then I see no reason other regions could not.

More likely the writer didn't do due diligence in researching the product origins.

-I will have to go along with GB's thought processes that the coffee plants could of been modified to be able to grow in NA climates.
-While tea trees can grow in some areas in NA, today's state of economics tea grown in the States is to expensive because of the labor involved in clipping the leaves off of the plant.

With both, the plantation producing the coffee or tea would need armed guards. To keep both the wildlife out and to keep 'poachers' out.

personally i would presume that the "coffee" in that entry is referencing the various coffee analogs, same for tea (various herbal "teas") but book as written it sure looks like coffee and tea is presumed to be common.

kaid wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Given the Lone Star seed bank and agricultural capabilities, the CS has coffee.

Or high ranking members of the CS have coffee. I suspect in places like lazlo or the big CS cities or even Triax you could get stuff like this but outside those areas availability/cost would fluctuate wildly.

Possibly, but also consider CS beef... widely available within the CS, because the CS uses its agricultural bounty as a opium-doped carrot for the populace. I can easily see that extending to them growing several grades of coffee.

Lazlo and the magic territories would be able to supply their citizens with plenty of high quality coffee. The prices would be higher because the stuff would be imported from Sam's Club,(Hackensack, NJ, Heroes Unlimited Earth), or similar origins.

Every shifter with a brain knows how to hop dimensions for trade. Trade gold coins in Palladium world for coffee, ginger, cinnamon, and other spices bought From an ALDI somewhere. Now you have gold, cash that in and head to Costco.

If there's a need, some smart wizards will make a profit.

I figure TW cargo trucks with the "D-Hopper-9000 Interdimensional drive" upgrade have to be hauling beans out there as well.

In my Techno Psychic text (sub-cat for ether the Hardware or Psychic power cats), there is a section about a group of wizards that harvest a psychoactive mineral from the bowels of NYC. Maybe they are bi-directional trading with coffee to the rosary knights.

If I had a truck with a TW D-hopping magic item/enchantment, I wouldn't want it to be fully dependent on magic for it's motivation.
- Having it dependent on the mage for power to move would cut into the recharge time of the D-hopper.
- There might be planes of existence that nullify the motive magic it uses.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:In my Techno Psychic text (sub-cat for ether the Hardware or Psychic power cats), there is a section about a group of wizards that harvest a psychoactive mineral from the bowels of NYC. Maybe they are bi-directional trading with coffee to the rosary knights.

If I had a truck with a TW D-hopping magic item/enchantment, I wouldn't want it to be fully dependent on magic for it's motivation.
- Having it dependent on the mage for power to move would cut into the recharge time of the D-hopper.
- There might be planes of existence that nullify the motive magic it uses.

Getting ahold of the dimension spanning tech from TMNT-AOS would be slightly more difficult, but I'd make that an adventure hook.

Sure, you can upgrade your truck with a nuclear reactor and a dimension drive, but you need to get that MacGuffin from the Foot Clan before it'll work!

ShadowLogan wrote:Re: Coffee specifically.

Rifts World Book 14 "New West" in the Saloon Bum OCC pg120 "Coffee, tea, juice and soda are typically 1-2 credits a cup, glass or bottle." Elsewhere on the page it is mentioned "... most contain an exotic array of juices, herbs, drugs, and harmless components..." and "bowl of beans or rice (spicy or plain): 1-2 credits".

If the middle of now where New West can support "exotic" herbs, coffee (and tea) along with "spicy" beans or rice then I see no reason other regions could not.

Good find!

@KC
Thanks. And the prices seem really low, which suggests the supply is there to meet demand at low-prices OR it's being sold at a loss by the business (made up for in sales elsewhere?).

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:More likely the writer didn't do due diligence in researching the product origins.

-I will have to go along with GB's thought processes that the coffee plants could of been modified to be able to grow in NA climates.
-While tea trees can grow in some areas in NA, today's state of economics tea grown in the States is to expensive because of the labor involved in clipping the leaves off of the plant.

With both, the plantation producing the coffee or tea would need armed guards. To keep both the wildlife out and to keep 'poachers' out.

I agree it is more likely an editorial mistake, but one with a variety of ways to explain (what locals call/consider, invasive alien plants, conventional trade, exotic dimensional/rift/teleport based trade, synthetic, GMO crops/substitutes, huge Pre-Rifts stockpiles, change in climate/geography from present day in some regions to support growing, etc).

We know plantations exist, specifically in Haiti (reference the Rifts version of Wizard Invocation for "Create Zombie") but that doesn't mean they can't be elsewhere. Weather Haiti/Caribbean Islands could meet demand for what they grow (which isn't stated) and how they transport it is another matter.

ITWastrel wrote:Lazlo and the magic territories would be able to supply their citizens with plenty of high quality coffee. The prices would be higher because the stuff would be imported from Sam's Club,(Hackensack, NJ, Heroes Unlimited Earth), or similar origins.

Every shifter with a brain knows how to hop dimensions for trade. Trade gold coins in Palladium world for coffee, ginger, cinnamon, and other spices bought From an ALDI somewhere. Now you have gold, cash that in and head to Costco.

If there's a need, some smart wizards will make a profit.

I figure TW cargo trucks with the "D-Hopper-9000 Interdimensional drive" upgrade have to be hauling beans out there as well.

I had a similar thought, the use of magic and Rifts could lead to interesting travel options involving trade. Rifts Japan mentions at least one stable Rift that one of its regional states exploits for natural resources. Other "stable" Rifts to other planets and dimensions (or even locations on Rifts Earth) likely exist (Millennium Trees IIRC), and some powers can do so artificially (Splugorth, several regional powers in South America).

For it to work the cost of shipping via this method has to be at least as competitive as importing via traditional methods otherwise it won't last long.

A TW Cargo "truck" with Dimension/Teleporting/Rifting options should be doable with the right spell chain(s) and gem(s), but WITHOUT doing any work it would require Onyx (1000c per carat) for a pure Wizard Invocation chain, but if you can use Temporal Magic (IIRC the spells in this category) in this mix to then you would need Quartz (60-300c per carat, type dependent) or Tourmaline (120c per carat).

You might not even need to resort to magic, several races have the technogy: humans (in the CS/Japan though don't use it and the Megaversal Legion, plus operating ruins in Florida from Pre-Rifts times in WB26 IIRC), Vernulians (unlikely trade partners), Amaki (South America, possible), the Kremin Cyborgs and Faerie Bot races (both cut off). They mostly comes across as more of a Gate system than TARDIS/Delorian-type.

it's amazing how the "america runs on crappy instant "coffee" that's mostly synthetic and tastes like the hot caffinated compost it is" is barely considered in favor of a massive magical network to preserve access to good coffee.

Orin J. wrote:it's amazing how the "america runs on crappy instant "coffee" that's mostly synthetic and tastes like the hot caffinated compost it is" is barely considered in favor of a massive magical network to preserve access to good coffee.

To quote my late father, "Life's too short for bad coffee."

Two spells from Chaos Magic (as found in Chaos Earth:Rise of Magic) which seem more likely than others to have stuck around in some form are Fast Food and Renew(Revitalize Food). Between the two, and with access to a ley line, a supply chain initially sourced from a scavenged Starbucks can be magnified and arguably maintained indefinitely. Note, however, that the coffee would be of lower quality, which provides a good adventure hook.

Similarly, while I agree that the CS through a combination of seed banks, genetic manipulation, and automated multilayer greenhouse techniques would absolutely be able to grow some amount of coffee for elites, having a few ersatz versions available would be good for the setting. Picture a Coalition platoon on an extended mission. The officer in command might be hoarding their dwindling supply of quality beans, while looking the other way on how the grunts are taking the rangers' advice on how any number of roasted plants mixed with rift-warped ephedra beats the pants off their allotment of Victory Brew. Meanwhile they're all sick of the Combat Courier waxing poetic about her mission to Columbia, and the Dog Boys just wish they'd drink the stuff downwind.

Curbludgeon wrote:Similarly, while I agree that the CS through a combination of seed banks, genetic manipulation, and automated multilayer greenhouse techniques would absolutely be able to grow some amount of coffee for elites, having a few ersatz versions available would be good for the setting. Picture a Coalition platoon on an extended mission. The officer in command might be hoarding their dwindling supply of quality beans, while looking the other way on how the grunts are taking the rangers' advice on how any number of roasted plants mixed with rift-warped ephedra beats the pants off their allotment of Victory Brew. Meanwhile they're all sick of the Combat Courier waxing poetic about her mission to Columbia, and the Dog Boys just wish they'd drink the stuff downwind.

...isn't that the plot of Star Trek: Voyager?

Mark Hall wrote:

Curbludgeon wrote:Similarly, while I agree that the CS through a combination of seed banks, genetic manipulation, and automated multilayer greenhouse techniques would absolutely be able to grow some amount of coffee for elites, having a few ersatz versions available would be good for the setting. Picture a Coalition platoon on an extended mission. The officer in command might be hoarding their dwindling supply of quality beans, while looking the other way on how the grunts are taking the rangers' advice on how any number of roasted plants mixed with rift-warped ephedra beats the pants off their allotment of Victory Brew. Meanwhile they're all sick of the Combat Courier waxing poetic about her mission to Columbia, and the Dog Boys just wish they'd drink the stuff downwind.

...isn't that the plot of Star Trek: Voyager?

Star Trek: Voyager had a plot? I just watched all 7 seasons over the last 18 months and I didn't notice one.

Normally I don't use level 15 spells in TW devices, but for the sake of discussion...

The spell Dimensional Teleport (p152 BoM) is one that's ripe for TW abuse. The gem (Onyx) isn't expensive (1000 cr / carat), and it can be cast at level 1 with no loss of effectiveness. So if you go by the TW creation rules, you could get:
-- Device Level 1
-- Activation Cost: 20 PPE
-- Construction: 400 PPE and 40 Hours
-- Gems: 20 carats of Onyx
-- Build Cost: 24,000 credits

If you wanted to include PPE storage to power the device, then it's:
-- Device Level 1
-- Activation Cost: 20 PPE
-- Payload: 5 activations stored in 5 carats of Diamonds
-- Construction: 400 PPE and 40 Hours
-- Gems: 20 carats of Onyx
-- Build Cost: 119,000 credits

The only real limit here is the spell "transports the spell caster and a maximum of 1,500 lbs." So you're looking a pickup truck's worth of coffee, not a semi-trailer.

Another solution would be the Dimensional Portal spell in a TW device, which when cast at level 4 would give you 2 minutes to chuck as many bags as you can through the portal.
-- Device Level 4
-- Activation Cost: 50 PPE
-- Construction: 1000 PPE and 400 Hours
-- Gems: 40 carats of Onyx
-- Build Cost: 80,000 credits

I could also see druids or plant shamans helping out in plant growth for production. May be not too fully committed as I think industrialization of their powers might go against their hippy ways haha. Whether it's hydroponic labs or fields. This might be more for local areas and not for huge exports.

Warshield73 wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Curbludgeon wrote:Similarly, while I agree that the CS through a combination of seed banks, genetic manipulation, and automated multilayer greenhouse techniques would absolutely be able to grow some amount of coffee for elites, having a few ersatz versions available would be good for the setting. Picture a Coalition platoon on an extended mission. The officer in command might be hoarding their dwindling supply of quality beans, while looking the other way on how the grunts are taking the rangers' advice on how any number of roasted plants mixed with rift-warped ephedra beats the pants off their allotment of Victory Brew. Meanwhile they're all sick of the Combat Courier waxing poetic about her mission to Columbia, and the Dog Boys just wish they'd drink the stuff downwind.

...isn't that the plot of Star Trek: Voyager?

Star Trek: Voyager had a plot? I just watched all 7 seasons over the last 18 months and I didn't notice one.

Before we get completely sidetracked and have to take this to an off topic thread. ST:V's main plot was to get home and in one piece. The Kazon got in the way, then the alien bugs that literally never appeared again after, then there were Borg, then governments that didn't want them in their system, then...etc.

Here is something for those of you that want a real magic item instead of the unfinished magic trinkets made of fo bits and baubles of tach stuff...

Magic Item: Twillin Medallion of Teleportation.

This item was made by the ArchMage Twillin McGregor in the northern highlands. Twillin Use a gemstone carved into a unique pattern as a foundation of the magic enchantment. The magic endowed the gemstone, along with the platinum medallion with he power to move from one point to another across the world it is on. Along with this, if rested for a full month, the wielder can create a portal to another plane of reality

Powers:
Teleportation: The medallion can teleport the user and chosen companions in effect of the Superior Teleport spell at 10th level potency up to three times per day. However, it takes a full week to recharge a use of this medallion this way.
Dimensional Teleportation: This medallion can also create a portal (up to 20 feet x 20 feet) to another 'dimension' that lasting for up to 20 minutes. However, to use this option the medallion needs to be rested (fully unused) for 28 days.
If the medallion is is rested on LeyLine, the rest person is just one seventh that of normal. Also if rested on a LeyLine Nexus for two days it will be fully refreshed.
Create Teleportation Point: The user of the medallion can press the medallion into the ground or cliff face, to create no fail teleportation point. This takes up one superior teleportation charge to a create a single teleportation point.